Day 3
Day 3 · September 10, 2026 · 8:48:48
Key points Day 3 of the Allison Inquiry, an independent non-partisan proceeding chaired by MP Dean Allison, continues hearing from Canadians who say a COVID-19 vaccine injured them. Opening statements recap prior days' testimony on financial devastation and lost independence, and note the more than 1,400 injured Canadians who applied to appear. The morning features expert-style presentations from Deanna McLeod, Adam Brugess, Carol Messenger, Carole Avoine, and Dr. Crystal Luchkiw on alleged harms and medical-system failures. Additional segments include Patricia Leidl, Dawood Al-Janaby, Ken Drysdale presenting the National Citizens Inquiry archive, and Stéphanie Giguère, followed by a reading of the names of the injured. After a break featuring past press conferences, Dr. James Thorp presents data he links to rising stillbirths, miscarriages, and reproductive harms in highly vaccinated regions. Afternoon witnesses Mark Chapman, Crystal Denomme, Julie Woods, Drew Taylor, and Noah Barclay recount disabling neurological, cardiac, and chronic symptoms they attribute to vaccination. Recurring themes include dismissal by doctors, pressure to take further doses, mainstream-media absence, and calls for recognition, medical care, and compensation, closing with Const. Helen Grus.
Speaker 22
9:35 Good morning, everyone, and welcome back to the Allison Inquiry. 9:39 To everyone joining us here in Ottawa and to those watching online from across Canada and around the world, thank you for tuning in. 9:47 Most importantly, I want to acknowledge the more than 1,400 vaccine-injured Canadians who applied to appear as a witness before this inquiry and many others who continue to come forward. 9:59 To each of you, thank you for trusting us with your story. 10:03 We know we can't hear from every one of you during this four days but that does not mean your experience is any less important. 10:09 We still want to hear your story and we want to continue collecting and documenting those experiences. 10:14 I also want to thank everyone who testified yesterday and the day before and had the courage to share deeply personal and in many cases heartbreaking stories. 10:25 Yesterday we heard about the extraordinary financial toll these injuries have had on individuals and their families. 10:32 We've heard of people spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on treatments. 10:36 We've heard about businesses being sold, homes being sold or refinanced, and savings completely being depleted. 10:44 For many, the financial impact comes from both directions. 10:48 They lose their ability to earn an income at the very same time their medical expenses are increasing. 10:54 And behind those financial losses are the lives that have been dramatically changed. 10:59 We heard from people who described themselves as healthy and active before their injuries. 11:04 People who walked as well as some who really walked. 11:07 We heard of someone that walked across the country. 11:11 Golfed, danced, worked, and in one case ran over 20 kilometers every other day. 11:17 Who now face serious limitations, including the use of a wheelchair or walking with a cane. 11:22 These are not simply numbers on a page. 11:25 These are people's lives. 11:27 I want to also continue to recognize the independent media who are here with us and who have helped give vaccine-injured Canadians a platform to tell their stories. 11:36 The level of public interest has been remarkable. 11:39 On X alone, as of this morning, there's been more than 170,000 posts. 11:45 Think about that. 11:46 Over the last two days, there's been over 170,000 posts. 11:48 That's not views, that's posts to the inquiry and 11:55 that is ranked among the top 10 globally for X for news in the last two days. 12:01 These numbers do not include Facebook, Instagram, and all of the live streaming many of you are doing. 12:07 Over the remaining days of the inquiry, we will continue listening to Canadians who reported being injured following the COVID-19 vaccination. 12:16 We'll hear what happened to them, how their lives and their families have been affected, and what happened when they sought medical care 12:24 Answers, recognition and compensation. 12:27 Yesterday reminded me that the consequences described by those witnesses extend far beyond physical injury. 12:34 There is mental and emotional stress. 12:36 There is pressure placed on spouses, children and loved ones. 12:40 There is the loss of independence. 12:42 And for many, there is financial devastation. 12:46 Losing a job or becoming unable to work while simultaneously paying for treatments and medical care that is simply not covered 12:52 by any provincial or federal programs. 12:55 As a country, I believe we also need to seriously examine how we have treated vulnerable Canadians and those who came forward asking for help. 13:04 Ultimately, that is what this inquiry is about. 13:07 People. 13:09 It's about hearing from those who say they were injured, understanding the challenges that they have faced assessing medical care and compensation, and making sure their experiences are documented and heard. 13:20 For far too long, many of these Canadians have felt that nobody was listening. 13:25 I also want to thank some of my fellow colleagues that have been here over the last couple of days and will continue to be here as they listen as well. 13:32 Mr. Dawson, you've been here for three days, and I want to thank you for that. 13:36 I say once again, this week is about listening. 13:39 Whatever witnesses said yesterday is something that stayed with me. 13:43 Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. 13:47 If suffering can be reduced by listening, by showing compassion, by helping other people with treatment and support, and by refusing to ignore them, then surely we have an obligation to do so. 13:59 That's why we're here. 14:01 Let's keep listening. Speaker 17
14:06 Yesterday I saw a podcast by Carla Treadway where she's basically showing that the CBC is literally half a block away from this building. 14:17 And doing it just to ask the question, where is the mainstream media? 14:21 I was told yesterday that, you know, this inquiry was trending as the seventh, basically in the top seven globally on the internet. 14:33 This is clearly exploding on social media and in the 14:42 Well, it's just exploding in social media and exploding in people's consciousness. 14:49 I ran into a worker here who said that they thought this is likely the most important event happening in the world right now. 15:01 And this isn't a volunteer. 15:02 This isn't somebody in the room, but they're in the building. 15:07 They're a government employee that have been watching online. 15:11 And the mainstream media is absent. 15:13 CBC is not here. 15:14 CTV is not here. 15:15 Global isn't here. 15:16 Rogers isn't here. 15:18 NBC isn't here. 15:20 The American stations aren't here. 15:24 And one has to ask the question, why aren't they here? 15:30 Why is the mainstream media not participating in something that's trending globally? 15:38 Everyone that is participating 15:40 is understanding that something very significant is happening here, that people who have been absolutely silenced are being freed to speak. 15:52 It's actually, it's a precious experience. 15:55 The mainstream media is missing out on an opportunity to participate in something very historic and something very freeing. 16:07 Now, when Senator Johnson was here 16:10 on the morning of September 8th, he was speaking about how in the United States, the pharmaceutical companies can advertise on the mainstream media and that basically the media is captured. 16:24 I don't believe we have that here. 16:26 I might be wrong. 16:28 So why is the Canadian press basically not participating? 16:33 And as I was thinking about this morning, it dawned on me that 16:38 I mean, we know the CBC is government funded. 16:42 But our other mainstream media outlets get funding from the federal government, and if not directly, through money that goes through flow-through organizations to fund the media. 16:56 And it very well might be that the mainstream media would not be solvent without Canadian government funding 17:07 And therefore, they are not actually free to go against Canadian government messaging. 17:16 Well, the Canadian government, and I'll explain this statement, the Canadian government is the distribution and marketing arm of the chemical pharmaceutical industry. 17:28 And this is our legal structure. 17:31 Most people don't understand this, but in Canada, under the Food and Drug Act, 17:36 anything that you're going to use to prevent illness or to treat illness is illegal. 17:41 So we've defined the definition of drug to include everything. 17:46 And then we've put in our regulations that no one can sell a drug without Health Canada approval. 17:53 And that even includes essential nutrients. 17:55 You need Health Canada approval to sell essential nutrients for us to be healthy. 18:02 But let's just talk about serious health conditions. 18:04 So 18:05 The only thing that we can use to treat serious health conditions. 18:08 So if anyone here has a heart attack or they've been screened for cancer and the text comes in at stage four, go to emergency now, or you have a mental breakdown, you name it. 18:17 We all know that if we go to the emergency ward, that there's only going to be two types of treatments offered. 18:23 And that is chemical drugs that had a patent when they were approved or surgery. 18:30 This is by design because the only drugs that have been approved are 18:35 In the lifetime of everyone watching, to the best of my understanding in Canada, every single drug approved for a serious health condition had a patent when it was approved with the exception of Primarin. 18:48 Do you think it's an accident that the only drugs approved, therefore the only legal treatments for serious health conditions are pharmaceutical drugs that had a patent? 19:01 Health Canada relentlessly attacks then natural remedies and drives them off the market because they can't get through the process. 19:08 The process is designed so that only patented drugs can get through. 19:14 And then, so, you know, the big money and the big treatments are by prescription. 19:22 I don't know the figure. 19:23 That might be 90% of the pharmaceutical profits are likely the prescription drugs. 19:28 It might be higher than that. 19:30 Can we access the prescription drugs outside of government-funded health care? 19:36 No, we can't. 19:36 The only way we can access the only legal treatments are through government-funded health care. 19:44 So when I say the Canadian government is the marketing and distribution arm of the chemical drug company, that is a legal reality in Canada. 19:54 And you might say, well, wait a second. 19:56 but it's the provinces that administer the healthcare. 19:59 So sure, Health Canada, the federal government's made sure the only legal treatments that the provinces can use are chemical drugs. 20:09 Well, that binds the provinces, but it gets worse. 20:13 The provinces are supposed to have jurisdiction under health. 20:16 We go back to our British North America Act of 1867, sections 91 and 92 define the federal government's roles and the provincial government's roles 20:25 The provincial governments have jurisdiction over health care, which is why I live in Alberta. 20:31 We have Alberta Health Services. 20:32 They administer health care. 20:34 But the federal government controls that because starting in the early 70s under Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, he came up with this game where he would tax the nation and he'd have these big bags of cash and he would say to the provinces, I will give you these big bags of cash if you spend it the way I direct you to spend it. 20:55 And the courts allowed this. 20:57 They never should have. 20:58 But in the area of health care, the federal government transfers so much money to the provinces for health care, and they must follow the Canada Health Act. 21:06 They must follow the guidelines for spending it, that we all have the exact the same health care. 21:10 No province can deviate and no province can say no. 21:14 The citizens would revolt. 21:17 So the Canadian government completely controls our health care. 21:21 And I think that helps explain how the Canadian government 21:26 keeps the media in check also because the media, as I surmise, likely could not survive the mainstream media without government funding. 21:36 But I'm just, I'm asking the question. 21:39 So, because here we are experiencing something absolutely beautiful that the rest of the world is watching, but Canadians that turn on the TV and rely on the CBC 21:53 and CTV and Global News and Rogers believing that they're getting news. 22:00 And that's the mischief, isn't it? 22:01 Is they believe that they're getting the news because these organizations represent themselves as authoritative news sources. 22:10 They do not tell the viewers 22:14 that they are biased. 22:15 They do not tell the viewers that they cannot go against government funding. 22:19 They do not tell the viewers that they will not go against pharmaceutical companies except on token stories so that they can keep up the appearance that they're non-biased. 22:30 And that's, in my mind, in my personal opinion, a crime. 22:35 I honestly believe that the boards 22:39 of these media companies during COVID should be investigated. 22:42 That's my personal opinion for crimes under the criminal code. 22:46 Not because they can't put out what they're saying, but they're representing themselves as unbiased, authoritative news sources. 22:55 So what do we do? 22:56 Chairperson Ellerson thanked the alternative media for putting this out. 23:02 And I thank the alternative media and anyone who's watching this. 23:06 Understand we need your help. 23:08 If you have even a small platform, restream. 23:11 You know, if you're the manager of a Cal Tire and you've got CNN on in your waiting room, stream this instead. 23:19 And, you know, day one and two are on the website. 23:22 Stream that all next week. 23:23 Stream us. 23:25 Start putting the word out. 23:26 Do whatever you can. 23:28 Because the only way Canada is going to heal is if all of us hear these stories. 23:34 We all have to understand what happens so that we can have a conversation. 23:37 And we're going to rely on you to do that. 23:40 So our first witness today is Deanna McLeod. 23:44 Deanna, welcome. 23:48 And Deanna, I'm going to ask you to take the Bible in your right hand. 23:56 Deanna McLeod, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Speaker 28
24:04 Yes, I do. Speaker 17
24:08 Now, I'm going to introduce you and I'm just going to borrow from one of your slides, but I've introduced you before. 24:14 So not wanting to take the wind out of your sails, but just for the inquiry's benefit, Deanna graduated from McMaster University with a degree in immunology and cognitive psychology. 24:27 She worked for close to a decade in pharmaceuticals, specializing in sales and marketing in oncology. 24:34 She founded an independent 24:36 medical research firm in 2000 to support clinicians in preparing objective evidence-based guidelines. 24:44 And I'll just expand on that. 24:46 So what Deanna's company does is anyone can go and hire them for unbiased research on medical issues. 24:55 So they're not connected to pharmaceutical companies, they're not connected to government. 24:59 You can go and hire them if you just want an unbiased assessment 25:06 of the research that's out there. 25:07 The firm has published more than 50 peer-reviewed guidelines, consensus statement and systematic reviews. 25:15 Over the last five years, the firm expanded to include COVID-19 public health measures, supporting an audit of Alberta's COVID-19 response. 25:24 And many people may not understand that there has been a government inquiry in Canada on COVID issues. 25:31 The Davidson Report in Alberta 25:34 And some of the recommendations in there, including a vaccination of children will shock people. 25:42 And how is it again, that nobody knows that there was a government inquiry in Canada on COVID-19 because the mainstream media is not sharing it. 25:53 And then recently presented findings on cancer trends to the president's cancer panel in Washington. 26:02 So Deanna, you've come here and you're actually presenting, just so everyone knows, some original research using Ontario provincial health data. 26:11 And Deanna, we thank you for doing that research for this inquiry and we're inviting you to present. Speaker 27
26:18 Thank you. 26:21 All right. 26:22 I think we've gone through this. 26:25 Just a moment on this slide. 26:30 So we specialize in evidence-based medicine, which means that we read studies nonstop. 26:37 Any one of the reviews or systematic reviews or consensus statements or guidelines we work with, we work with probably about 50 to 75 clinical trials a paper. 26:48 We read them all, we summarize them, we analyze them. 26:52 And we go through a process with clinicians where we figure out what the data says and what we can do based on that data in order to make an evidence-based clinical policy or recommendation. 27:08 And so with the COVID analysis, my team basically did the reverse. 27:13 We looked at the COVID policy and 27:16 and the recommendations that were made. 27:17 And we went back and we looked to see if they had sufficient amount of evidence to support the recommendations that they did. 27:25 And so I can't possibly present everything, but I've pulled, I think, a select bits from our research. 27:35 And Sean, you mentioned this already. 27:38 We were working with the Canadian, 27:41 Canadian Citizens Care Alliance, who were able to get us a lot of Ontario data via FOIA requests. 27:48 And a lot of what we're sharing today was done in partnership with them. 27:52 So I just want to thank everybody there for all of their efforts. 27:56 So the reason why I'm here and I'm not a doctor is because all of my clinical colleagues have been censored. 28:06 I'm not 100% sure whether everybody here knows, but 28:10 Physicians are, you know, in the grand scheme of things, the protective layer between the pharmaceutical companies and the patient. 28:21 A pharmaceutical company's greatest desire is to directly influence patients because they don't have, a lot of the time, the ability to be able to discern whether something is good for them or bad for them. 28:32 And so they rely on their clinician, and the clinician has a fiduciary duty to be 28:39 is good for the patient, which is the left-hand side of the slide. 28:42 During the pandemic, once the emergency legal frameworks were set in place, 28:49 Chief Medical Officer of Health, was able to issue interim orders. 28:53 And one of the interim orders that she issued was that the colleges of physicians and surgeons had to follow the COVID policy, and they had to realign themselves and make it so that they are now working for the common good, not for the patient. 29:10 And what this does is it shifts the risk-benefit framework 29:14 from an individual risk benefit framework where you look at the individual patient and you say, is this better for them or worse for them? 29:20 And you allow them to make a choice of informed consent. 29:22 And it puts it in a collective framework where basically the chief medical officer of health says, as long as more people are being helped 29:34 than harmed, this is good for us. 29:37 And so what that means is that the casualties, the more people are being harmed, more people are benefiting from being harmed means that you can actually harm people in your COVID policy. 29:50 And so this framework shifted, and I don't think very many people were really aware that we were now, when I looked through all of the public health documents, what they were doing is they were making risk benefit statements based on a collective Speaker 17
30:07 So that overrides... Before you go to the next slide, can I just interject? 30:12 So the patient wasn't aware of this. 30:15 So most of us, we have this history where we'd be going to our doctor and asking for advice. 30:21 And our belief, which was true in the past, was that the doctor's going to be giving us advice based on the doctor's opinion on what would create the best health outcomes for us personally. 30:33 But what you're saying is, is the legal framework changed so that doctors were put under a legal framework, not so when you went and asked for COVID-19 vaccine, your doctor, should I get the COVID-19 vaccine? 30:47 The doctor was now under a legal obligation to actually say, yes, you should get the COVID-19 vaccine, even if the doctor's opinion was, is that this was not good for you as an individual patient, but 31:03 The patient wasn't ever told this. 31:05 The patient still trusted the doctor, believing the doctor was giving advice in the best interest of the patient. Speaker 27
31:16 So amazingly, what this did is it basically removed the protective layer from patients and allowed pharmaceutical companies... 31:25 who were, if you look at, if you ever follow the money, what you'll see is that there's public-private partnerships at absolutely every level of government. 31:34 In fact, they're supported. 31:36 At the international level, there were public-private partnerships. 31:40 At the governmental level, there was public-private partnerships. 31:42 In fact, the COVID task force was led by industry people in Canada. 31:46 So I don't even know if everybody understands that. 31:49 But basically, pharma was very much involved at a 31:54 the recommendations. 31:57 Just a quick aside, whenever COVID happened, I was very, very much surprised by the level of fear and propaganda that was going on. 32:07 But fear is the number one ingredient for selling vaccines. 32:12 You know, for most treatments, if you, a person has to have a condition and they're suffering from actual treatment, from actual illness, 32:22 in order to be able to convince them that a product is beneficial for them. 32:25 But when you're selling a vaccine, basically what you do is you take a perfectly healthy person, you convince them that they're going to be very, very sick by scaring them, and that convinces them to have a vaccine. 32:36 And vaccines are by far and away the most lucrative products that a pharmaceutical can have. 32:41 So this is very, very big business. 32:44 And so if they can capture public health and direct public health to sell their vaccines, 32:49 then basically public health becomes the marketing arm. 32:53 Canada becomes a distribution arm. 32:55 And then if they can also circumvent safety testing, which is the most expensive element of a product development, then basically it's an incredible win for pharmaceutical companies at a global level. 33:09 But let's just get into some of the data. 33:11 So whenever you're doing an evidence-based evaluation, what you do is you start with the highest level of evidence. 33:16 The highest level of evidence produced for the mRNA product, which has also been marketed as a vaccine, is the Pfizer six-month data. 33:25 So this is called level one evidence. 33:27 And I actually took the New England Journal of Medicine publication and summarized it in these slides. 33:33 And if you actually were to read the paper in full, including the supplements, which is where they bury a lot of the safety data, what you'll find out is that in terms of the 33:43 six months of evaluation for the COVID-19 vaccine, I'm looking at the Pfizer paper here, the COVID-19 cases were fewer in the vaccine arm than the placebo arm. 33:55 But if you actually looked at the absolute change, it was minus 4%. 33:59 So they were actually able to reduce the number of COVID cases by minus 4%. 34:04 If you looked at the product side effects during that same period, and when I talk about product side effects, these were unsolicited side effects, meaning that the patient had to report them during the trial period. 34:16 And just so that you know, a normal randomized controlled trial, you have a clinician that's monitoring the patient, you do lab work, you do symptom profiling. 34:28 This was mediated through a phone app. 34:31 And there was no lab work done at all. 34:34 So the physicians and the clinicians had no idea what was actually happening in the bodies of the patients when they were running these trials. 34:41 They were just looking at the symptoms. 34:43 But interestingly enough, you have minus 4% of cases, but plus 18% in side effects. 34:50 And that's just patient reported side effects. 34:52 In terms of severe COVID-19, it was a minus 0.1% reduction in severe COVID cases, but an increase of 0.5% in severe side effects. 35:05 So what we're looking at here is a five times the number of side effects for any benefit of reduction in COVID cases in the first six months. 35:12 And they call this an incredible win. 35:15 But if you looked at the risk benefit profile, it's actually a loss for each of the patients that are 35:20 for the patients as a whole who are in this trial. 35:23 The other thing that's really interesting is that if you actually looked at cardiovascular related deaths and they did record these, we're looking at a population of healthy volunteers that participated in this trial. 35:35 And yet there were nine cardiovascular deaths in the six month period. 35:40 after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine, and that was higher than the placebo arm. 35:44 So to me, that would have been an immediate signal right away that this is gonna have an impact on cardiovascular system. 35:52 And yet it was completely overlooked whenever they were presenting the results. 35:55 We were told that this is safe and effective, but what this looks to me is that the risks outweigh the benefits. 36:05 I just want to highlight another thing is one of the ways the primary endpoint that they used for this paper was confirmed COVID case, which is confirmed with a PCR test. 36:17 And they didn't actually look at clinical symptoms. 36:20 This is basically a chart of reactogenicity. 36:22 And reactogenicity is a fancy word for saying what happens immediately after you get your vaccine. 36:28 And if you actually note here, a lot of the things that people were experiencing, fever, fatigue, headache, muscle pain, joint pain, remind you of COVID. 36:37 It's a COVID-like illness. 36:38 So what they're actually recording here is that 36:42 36, let's just take headache, for instance. 36:45 After your first dose, 36% of the patients in the vaccine arm had headaches and 28% of the placebo, but that's a plus 8%. 36:57 So what we're looking at is that we're actually getting increases in COVID-like illness with each dose. 37:02 If you look to the second dose, you can see that those numbers go up even further. 37:06 So you have plus 37% in fatigue, you have plus 29% in headache. 37:12 And these are over and above what I mentioned earlier, which is the plus 18% in side effects. 37:17 So what we're seeing here is this is having a major impact on people. 37:21 And curiously enough, when we looked at this, we're like, it looks like it's causing COVID. 37:26 We can't say it's causing COVID, but it looks like it's causing COVID-like illness. 37:30 So it's very interesting that we're trying to reduce COVID and then we're giving somebody something that actually produces COVID-like illness. 37:38 If COVID-like illness was so bad, why are we 37:41 inducing it with this product. 37:45 But I guess we were told that it works. 37:47 And so what we have here is the data from Ontario, Canada. 37:51 This is basically data from a FOIA request where we asked them to give the data for 38:01 COVID cases by vaccination status. 38:04 And it's a complicated graph, but I'm just going to walk you through it. 38:06 So if you did not get vaccinated, then you would follow the blue line. 38:12 The blue line moves along. 38:14 You have a couple peaks before October. Speaker 17
38:17 Can I just stop you? 38:18 So it says unexposed, but it could say unvaccinated. Speaker 27
38:22 That's right. 38:23 in the figure. 38:24 So that's unexposed to the mRNA product. 38:28 We did a paper and we didn't actually want to call it a vaccine because technically speaking, it isn't like a traditional vaccine. 38:34 So thank you for highlighting that. 38:36 So initially, if you did not get vaccinated, basically you have a couple peaks and then 38:43 When Omicron arrived, which is the date of January 2022, when you see that big peak, there's a little bit of a peak, and then you'll see that there is no more cases afterwards. 38:52 It just peters off completely. 38:53 If you actually look at the vaccinated, so that's the two doses, which is the orange line, you see that when they began rollout, there was an immediately spike in COVID cases among the vaccinated, the ones that got one to two doses. 39:08 Then it petered down a little bit. 39:09 And then with the arrival of Omicron, you can see that the highest level of case rates, the number of cases per population per 100,000, is in the vaccinated, those one to two doses, those who have received a one to two dose. 39:22 And while they were rolling out the... 39:28 the booster is when Omicron happens. 39:30 So we have Omicron and they're rolling out a booster. 39:33 And if you look at that, they also peak. 39:36 And then from Omicron onward, the highest rates are in the boosted. 39:41 So what this data tells us is that vaccination increases your risk of COVID infection. 39:51 It also tells us that... Speaker 17
39:52 I just have to stop you so people hear that again. 39:55 So this is using 39:57 province of Ontario data. 39:59 This is the province's data on rates of COVID. 40:03 And you've just said, so from Omicron on, that actually it appears that the vaccines, a major side effect is COVID, that you're more likely to get COVID when you're vaccinated. Speaker 27
40:15 So what we're looking at is population data. 40:18 So I can't actually assert a causal link between this, but what I can say is that following the vaccination at a population level in Ontario, 40:28 people who were vaccinated had an increased risk of getting COVID versus people who were unvaccinated. 40:36 And again, this data was readily available to officials if they wanted to look at it. 40:41 This is Ontario data pulling administrative data and analyzing it as standard practice. 40:47 But it does look like even whenever you added the booster that 40:52 you know, with the addition and that, you know, when we say boosted, it's, you know, three doses or more because they kept boosting people, that those, that group has the highest risk of COVID following the rollout of the booster. 41:07 So it seems to me that once you roll it out, then you actually have increased risk in that particular population. 41:14 So this would be the opposite of what we were told. Speaker 17
41:18 And I'll just, 41:19 Just ask. 41:19 So, I mean, because your chart goes from up till, looks like just shy of January 2024. 41:27 But it looks like around February of 22 onwards, those that were boosted were on a population level. 41:35 They were more likely to get COVID because they were getting COVID more than the unvaccinated. 41:40 Now, we're still boosting. 41:42 I don't know what shot we're up to. 41:44 But I know people that are still getting boosted and nobody is telling them. 41:49 That with each booster, because it continues, doesn't it? 41:53 That with each booster, you are more likely to get COVID. Speaker 27
41:58 Interestingly enough, there was a regulatory change through COVID that's still in play. 42:04 And basically for the mRNA products, what they do is they approve the lipid nanoparticle part. 42:11 which is the fat capsule that it's in. 42:14 And then basically they can change the code, the mRNA code within that without doing any further clinical evaluation. 42:20 So basically we don't even do biomarkers. 42:22 So each of these boosters that we're recommending right now, A, we haven't actually ever analyzed the cumulative toxicity. 42:30 There's no study that actually looks at that. 42:32 And then secondly, 42:34 they're not even actually doing any clinical evidence, any clinical trials, or evaluating whatsoever any of the products that are now being put out. 42:42 So it's an interesting, there's definitely not enough clinical evidence to support that recommendation to continue to boost. Speaker 17
42:51 And I'm just going to, I just realized we're under a tight time schedule, so I better stop interrupting you and get you proceeding. Speaker 27
42:58 Okay, so... 43:00 Basically, one of the things that we did, too, is we basically noted that there was a delay in the way that they assigned vaccination status whenever they were vaccinated. 43:14 when public health, so when you're looking at a population level, they basically wait, they give you a dose, and then two weeks later they change your status. 43:22 So if you're doing a safety evaluation, you have to actually look at it immediately after you get your dose. 43:27 And if you're wanting to understand what's happening at a population level, you actually should analyze it right at the moment that you receive the dose. Speaker 17
43:34 And I'm sorry, because I just said I can't interrupt because we're short of time, but we've had person after person and chart after chart showing that 43:43 There's a big spike of symptoms in the first seven days for like that's where the adverse reactions start. 43:50 But if Ontario isn't even treating you as vaccinated for their reporting purposes until 14 days after a shot, then the majority of adverse reactions aren't even going to be reported. 44:02 They're going to be reported as occurring in the unvaccinated when it's actually a vaccine injury. Speaker 27
44:08 Right. 44:09 So what we did was we looked at the data and we actually asked for any short-term cases. 44:14 Those would be COVID infections that occurred in people who were vaccinated 14 days after 44:21 they received their shot, which would have normally been categorized as another vaccination status. 44:27 And what we found is that there were two clusters. 44:28 The first cluster occurred immediately upon rollout of the COVID-19 vaccine in the general population. 44:36 And you can see that that's the little call out to the left. 44:40 So what's driving the infection is 44:45 So again, the way public health sees it is that you're a disease vector if you're infected. 44:50 So they get vaccinated, they get COVID, which is what this is showing. 44:54 They're getting COVID cases immediately after. 44:56 It's not being counted in the overall population level data for effectiveness, but they're actually driving infection. 45:03 whenever they get vaccinated. 45:04 You can see that there's another cluster in and around when they were rolling out the booster. 45:08 So it is very possible that the rollout of the booster contributed to the Omicron surge because you're actually causing people to get COVID and then they're spreading it to their neighbors. 45:19 And so therefore, it would probably be counterproductive, you would imagine, if you can give somebody an induced COVID 45:26 And then basically claim that you were reducing it because now they've already had COVID. 45:32 So it also brings a lot of the population level data, the real world data into question because it's very confusing now. 45:40 In the clinical trials, they did the same thing. 45:42 They didn't count a COVID case that occurred in the short term and they only counted it after a certain time. 45:50 So what that means is that we can't tell whether the immunity that they're claiming is occurring was due to the infection that was induced immediately after they received the shot or whether it was actually the vaccine. 46:02 So it's very unclear. Speaker 17
46:03 And I'm just going to warn you, you've got five minutes and I'm going to stop interrupting. Speaker 27
46:07 Okay. 46:09 So here's another, this is basically hospital care trend data. 46:12 I just threw a lot of these in there because I wanted to show, but you can actually see that the trend for infection following immunization was going down, and then you have the rollout of the shots, and then you have this dramatic jump up. 46:24 The two guardrails there are the confidence intervals, which means it's not due to chance. 46:28 Over here, we have maternal infection and parasitic disease. 46:32 So you can see that something's happening to their immune systems because in 2021, you have this absolute dramatic increase in maternal infections and parasitic diseases, which, you know, it's a category. 46:44 And then in 2022, it continues to go up. 46:46 So we had a really big push to try and vaccinate pregnant women. 46:50 And this is some of the things that were happening is that they're now increasingly susceptible to infection. 46:56 There's also impacts on immunology and hematology. 47:00 So after the COVID-19 rollout, you can see on the left hand side that there's this immunity disorder where you actually become more susceptible to infections that increases over time. 47:12 So there's a jump right when they roll it out. 47:14 But you can see at the far right, which is July 2025, there's this increase. 47:18 So what we're seeing is the population's immune system is becoming less able to fight infection. 47:24 We have iron deficiency anemia. 47:26 I added this slide in last night because there were a lot of people who testified who basically said, I'm suffering from incredible fatigue. 47:34 So we know that VITT is a side effect of the vaccine, which basically means that you have your immune system either causes clotting or bleeding. 47:42 It basically dysregulates your ability to function. 47:48 for your blood to work in terms of clotting and bleeding. 47:50 The long and the short of it is that there could be chronic bleeding or it could be doing something directly to the platelets. 47:56 But if you actually look at this, iron deficiency anemia... 48:00 skyrocketed the moment that you rolled out the vaccine, and it's continuing to climb to the right. 48:05 It's difficult for us to know whether these are people who are getting boosted, or it's difficult for us to know if, you know, what exactly, whether this is a result of bleeding, but basically this would cause chronic fatigue. 48:17 So, and the numbers are outstanding. 48:20 If you look at the left-hand side, you can see that pre-COVID, maybe you had 200 people like this per 100,000, and now on the right-hand side, we're getting close to 48:30 at 325 per 100,000. 48:32 So that's a dramatic increase in iron deficiency anemia. 48:39 This is somebody mentioned yesterday about anaphylaxis. 48:43 You can see here that this is drug adverse effects, which would include anaphylaxis. 48:48 Pre-COVID, it was pretty standard, the rollout of the vaccine. 48:51 And you can see those jumps. 48:52 That is one of those kind people's mothers dying, that jump up there. 48:59 or maybe more, and then coming back down again. 49:02 So the rollout, especially that first dose, was incredibly toxic and caused anaphylaxis. 49:08 Anaphylaxis is life-threatening. 49:10 So again, you have to ask yourself, you have COVID, which is not life-threatening for the majority of the population, and then you give them a dose of a product that causes an immediate reaction, which is notable here, and looking at, what, 160 per 100,000 people? 49:27 are getting an anaphylactic reaction or something along those lines after their COVID shot, and we're calling this good. 49:35 Bell's palsy, we had some people reporting that. 49:37 So again, very standard leading up. 49:41 A little bit of a blip. 49:42 And then now you can see that the line would be where normal is. 49:46 And we are hovering well above the line, meaning that this is an ongoing issue. 49:52 People are suffering from Bell's palsy and it's going out to 2025. 49:54 This is not just a transitory reaction. 49:58 Pulmonary embolism. 50:00 So you can see that there's a peak right when they rolled it out in June 2021. 50:04 It kind of goes down afterwards because, believe it or not, Pfizer has a new drug called Alequis. 50:11 And it's an oral drug that basically treats clotting. 50:16 So if you actually ever ask anybody if they got clots from their shots, they would show up and they would say, oh, no, we've got you covered. 50:23 And they're on this very expensive oral product, which is patented. 50:27 Again, Pfizer is benefiting from that. 50:30 Okay, so I'm going to just shift into reproductive health because, again, we had a couple people talk about loss of – 50:43 So on the left hand side is the biodistribution data. 50:46 And I've highlighted the black box or the red box there is that the LNPs are little fat molecules and ovaries are hungry for those. 50:55 And so the LNPs accumulate in the ovaries. 50:58 They're also inflammatory, so causing inflammation. 51:01 So inflammation of the ovaries is basically will impact your fertility. 51:07 So if you look on the right, the OHIP code 614 for oophoritis, which is swelling of the ovaries, is right there. 51:15 And you can see that at the peak after COVID, which it was going down previously prior to COVID, and then after that, you have this dramatic jump in 2021, a 34% increase versus what would be expected in oophoritis, which means swelling of the ovaries. 51:30 So this is basically having a dramatic impact on many women's ovaries. 51:35 So disorders of menstruation, it's not surprising that you'll see menstrual disorders. Speaker 17
51:40 So again, we have issues of... Deanna, you have a minute left and I'm sorry about that. Speaker 27
51:46 I'm going to keep going. 51:47 So female fertility, male fertility issues, pregnancy loss. 51:52 It was in the New England Journal of Medicine. 51:54 Oh, sorry, I'm going back. 51:56 Let's just go here. 51:57 The New England Journal of Medicine, there was an error where they said it was 12.6% miscarriage rates. 52:02 We tried to correct that. 52:04 And because the actual data said that it was 82% in and around that, if you actually looked at the right denominator. 52:11 And here it is. 52:12 That's what it looks like on a population level. 52:14 You roll out an mRNA product and you get miscarriages. 52:18 So that line there is 225 per 100,000 and it jumped up to 275 per 100,000. Speaker 17
52:24 And this is province of Ontario? Speaker 27
52:26 This is Ontario. 52:27 Yeah, that's what it looks like whenever you don't do your safety testing. 52:31 So there was something that talked about fetal malformation. 52:36 They did do a randomized control trial in pregnant women that they stopped whenever they basically approved the vaccine. 52:41 But if you actually go and look at 52:44 Congenital malformation, it's double in the vaccine arm versus placebo. 52:48 So this data was buried. Speaker 17
52:50 And I have to stop you, but you're going to be here today and tomorrow. 52:53 We may recall you to give you more time if we find ourselves with a break, because I think everyone is finding this very important. 53:03 And the fact that this is new research using province of Ontario data is quite striking. Speaker 27
53:10 All right. 53:10 Well, I'm here. 53:11 Let me know. Speaker 17
53:12 And I'm sorry about that. Speaker 27
53:13 No, no, I know. Speaker 17
53:14 We did know when we shooed her in that we'd have to be tight with time. 53:18 And I think I can speak for our dean. Speaker 22
53:20 Yeah, no, and thank you. 53:22 Yeah, thank you very much for being here and providing. 53:24 And you'll be providing the decks and we'll be providing them online as well. 53:29 And hopefully we can take you back up to finish it off. Speaker 17
53:32 Thanks. 53:34 So our next witness is Adam Burgess. 53:37 Adam, can you reach over and grab that Bible and put it in your right hand? 53:44 Adam Burgess, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 53:50 I do, so help me God. 53:53 You are here today to speak about your sister, Christy Burgess. 53:58 Yes. 54:00 Who was 36. 54:01 She died on September 7th, or I'm sorry, she was born on December 17th, 1984. 54:08 Just to introduce you personally, you are 40 years old right now. Speaker 17
54:12 And you're an equipment operator in Spruce Grove, Alberta. 54:16 Yes. 54:18 Can you tell us what Christy was doing and what her health was like before the vaccine? Speaker 18
54:25 Christy was very active. 54:28 She was, she would, 54:32 do yoga. 54:32 She would do paddle boarding. 54:34 She was very active in the gym. 54:36 She did struggle with lupus. 54:39 I believe it's called SLE and some kidney issues. 54:45 But and, you know, her health would fluctuate, go down and up sometimes. 54:51 But for the most part, she was very full of life. Speaker 17
54:56 And my understanding is that she was working for, I think the parole board with juvenile offenders. 55:03 And you also, um, communicated to me that really she was the glue in your family. 55:10 Can you kind of share with us about that? Speaker 18
55:13 Yeah, she was a, she was a very special person. 55:16 She was completely fearless, very courageous, but also very compassionate and loving. 55:22 Um, 55:24 she just had a big smile that was infectious and would light up everyone around her. 55:31 Um, and that included from the small town that we grew up in and in Tesla and Yukon to, to white horse where she would end her life. 55:40 Um, she, um, I, I thought that she was so cool growing up and I really deeply cared about her opinion and, and, uh, she would, 55:54 If she didn't agree with something, she would ask questions in a compassionate way and really saw the best in people. 56:03 And she, to this day, has a lot of friends and family that miss her terribly and still think about her on a daily basis. 56:11 I'm just going to ask David to pull up a photo that you provided. Speaker 17
56:18 This is your sister, Christy. Speaker 18
56:20 This was the last time I saw Christy conscious. 56:23 This is my mom's birthday, March 26, 2021. 56:29 And I wish I had stayed there longer because that was the last time I saw her conscious. Speaker 17
56:39 She appears to be very charismatic and just has a lovely smile. 56:43 Is that who she was? Speaker 18
56:44 Yeah, she was. 56:46 She made everyone feel very comfortable being around her and 56:51 And you just, you just wanted to talk to her and see what she thought about things. 56:56 And she just had this, this great spirit and, and an unbelievable thirst for life. 57:06 Like she would, she traveled so much. 57:09 It was so impressive to me. 57:10 She traveled to Vietnam and Cambodia, and she went to India to learn how to be a yoga instructor for over a month. 57:18 She went to Japan. 57:20 She just, 57:21 Never said no to these big experiences in life. 57:24 And even if she was suffering with her health or even if she wasn't, she was just completely fearless. 57:31 And I still really admire her to this day about that. Speaker 17
57:36 Now, I'm going to ask before you share with us the injury experience of your sister, Christy. 57:44 You got vaccinated yourself. Speaker 17
57:47 You got your first shot on March 13th, 2001. 57:50 And then you got your second shot on both Moderna on April 14th, 2001. 57:55 Can you share with us what your experience was after the second shot? Speaker 18
58:00 I was on a Wednesday. 58:01 I went home. 58:02 I started feeling a little off that evening and I went to bed. 58:08 And the next day I woke up and I was about as sick as I've ever been. 58:11 I don't really get headaches. 58:14 I had splitting headaches on the right side of my head. 58:19 I had sweats, I had muscle and joint fatigue, I had a fever, I had nausea, I could not get out of bed. 58:26 I was really, really in a bad way. 58:29 But because of COVID restrictions, I wasn't going to go to the doctor. 58:35 And I just really thought that, like, I hadn't really been 58:43 informed that these were going to be side effects. 58:45 They really sort of advertised it as the side effects being a lot more mild. 58:52 But I had a really bad time with it and I started coming out of it that Sunday night and I was able to go for a walk with my mother and tell her that my wife and I were now expecting children. 59:10 that we had been trying for for a very long time. 59:12 And we got to have a couple of hours as a family as being extremely happy and looking forward to the future. 59:22 And then that night I received the call that Christy was unresponsive. Speaker 17
59:30 So can you share with us what happened? Speaker 20
59:32 My understanding is that she, on April 11th, 2021, Speaker 17
59:39 received her second Moderna shot. 59:41 I believe it was the 12th actually. 59:43 Okay. 59:45 And then on, so it would have been then April 18th, four days, six days later. Speaker 18
59:53 Yeah. 59:54 I think technically the 19th, but it happened, well, it happened at the end of the 18th. 1:00:02 She was living in a house out of town about a half an hour outside of Whitehorse with our youngest sister. 1:00:08 And I believe she had said that she wasn't feeling well or she was feeling off. 1:00:12 And she went into the bathroom and she was in there for a very long time. 1:00:17 And my youngest sister heard a noise and ended up going into the bathroom and seeing her unresponsive on the floor. 1:00:27 And the medical services in the Yukon are, you know, they're not always right there when you need them. 1:00:35 And that's not a fault on them. 1:00:37 It's just, 1:00:38 reality of living in the north. 1:00:41 So I can't imagine what it must have been like for her waiting for an ambulance for a very long time. 1:00:48 And they took her to Whitehorse Hospital. 1:00:52 I received a call just after midnight from my mom's husband saying that something is wrong with Christy and that we have to 1:01:03 that this is the time to come together as a family. 1:01:05 And we made our way down to Whitehorse Hospital at that time. 1:01:11 And what happened at the hospital? 1:01:14 Visitation was limited. 1:01:15 There was only a couple of us that were allowed to go in there. 1:01:20 Again, services are limited. 1:01:24 So in the Yukon, when something like this happens to you, you have to wait for a medevac to take you to a place where they have more substantial facilities. 1:01:33 Vancouver, Edmonton, and somebody was already coming in from one of the communities. 1:01:38 And so we had to wait a very long time to be medevaced. 1:01:41 I think it was something like eight hours before she could even get on a plane to a better place. 1:01:48 We as a family stood around her, saw her with, she didn't look anything like this. 1:01:56 She had tubes in her and it was helping her breathe. 1:02:01 And we stood around as a family and held her hand and just begged and pleaded for her return. 1:02:14 I held her hand because I'd only spoken to my mom about us expecting children. 1:02:25 I wasn't planning on telling anyone else for a little while. 1:02:29 I did tell her. 1:02:30 I spoke into her ear and just one tear ran down her cheek. 1:02:37 And I'm still haunted to this day that she could hear me in that moment with what she was going through. 1:02:46 And we all just said, like, we need you. 1:02:50 We love you. 1:02:50 We need you to come back even if you're injured. 1:02:56 And we just told her how much she meant to us and how special of a person that she was. 1:03:02 And the people at the hospital were just kind of acting like, oh, this is fine. 1:03:08 And she's like, we're going to get her the help that she needs. 1:03:11 And I eventually had to ask somebody straight up that, like, is she going to recover from this? 1:03:17 And they kind of just said, like, it's not looking good. 1:03:22 There were people that wanted to go in and see her. 1:03:24 They weren't allowed because of COVID restrictions. 1:03:28 There are people that, you know, friends, 1:03:32 Just anyone that we contacted just could not believe what was happening. 1:03:42 There are moments from that day that are just burned into my mind that I won't ever be able to let go of probably. 1:03:50 And just the desperation as a family, just being completely helpless and wanting to 1:03:58 wanting to do something for her, and all we could do was just hold her hand and tell her how much we loved her. 1:04:04 And I didn't believe at the time that that was the last time I would see her, but it was. 1:04:21 She eventually got on the medivac, and she... 1:04:27 went to Vancouver with my mom who went alone because of COVID restrictions. 1:04:34 And my mom laid in the bed with her and she was there with her the whole time. 1:04:41 And the next day we got a call that Christie was not going to wake up and they've done everything for her and they were going to start end of life care basically. 1:04:53 And that was completely devastating. 1:04:56 I remember 1:04:58 standing in my living room and falling to my knees and not being able to stand up. Speaker 14
1:05:07 And I can't imagine what my mom was going through or anyone else. Speaker 18
1:05:14 And again, because of COVID restrictions, we're all at home. 1:05:17 We're all alone trying to text each other and speak to each other over the phone. 1:05:24 But that's no way to grieve. 1:05:25 You have to grieve with your family. 1:05:29 And my mom stayed with her the whole time. 1:05:33 Christy was an organ donor and she donated her organs. 1:05:38 And then my mom had to come back to the Yukon alone. 1:05:43 When she returned to the Yukon, she called the, I believe it was the COVID information line, where you could get information from and you could speak to people who were in charge. 1:05:56 And she asked them, can I have an exemption? 1:05:59 from this, if you left the Yukon for any reason, I don't know if a lot of people know this, but the Yukon at that time, we had been under a state of emergency for over a year. 1:06:09 It ended up being almost two years. 1:06:12 And because other provinces have mechanisms that they can impose restrictions and mandates on you, the Yukon didn't have that. 1:06:22 So they had to impose a state of emergency where they then could 1:06:27 impose a quarantine and things of that nature. 1:06:31 And my mom returned from Vancouver and called them and asked them if she could have an exemption so she could go and see her remaining children and just hug her family. 1:06:44 And the person that she spoke to swore at her and hung up on her. 1:06:49 And this is the level of compassion that we were dealing with at the time. Speaker 17
1:06:56 I'm going to ask you one more question and then the MPs will ask me questions. 1:07:00 Okay. 1:07:01 How has this affected you and your family? Speaker 18
1:07:08 This was probably the most devastating experience of my lifetime. 1:07:16 I willingly took the vaccine just like my sister did because I believed in our institutions and I believed in 1:07:25 the people that we've trusted and paid to keep us safe with things like this. 1:07:33 And I no longer have that kind of trust in anything that they do. 1:07:42 I think about this every single day. 1:07:44 I think I still carry a lot of PTSD from this experience. 1:07:56 It's hard to describe how it affects me because it affects the way that I look at everything and the way that I view everything. 1:08:05 It was so scary having our children. 1:08:09 We ended up having twins. 1:08:12 And my wife's employer at the time, the Yukon government, told her if she didn't get the COVID vaccine while she was pregnant, that she would be fired and she would be removed from maternity leave. 1:08:24 And she had to get the COVID vaccine while pregnant. 1:08:28 Also, we were also being pregnant with twins in the Yukon. 1:08:33 We were looking at being medevaced out, which you can do if you're not vaccinated. 1:08:37 But then how do you get home if you aren't vaccinated? 1:08:40 So then we were looking at driving home to the Yukon, 2,600 kilometers in the dead of winter with premature twins. 1:08:51 And so she ended up getting the shot. 1:08:55 My twins were born six weeks premature. 1:08:59 One of my sons still has a significant verbal delay. 1:09:07 It just seemed like this COVID thing and the people that were directing it were just, it was so cruel. 1:09:17 It was just pure cruelty, what we experienced. 1:09:21 And to this day, 1:09:24 We had a child recently and he's never had a single vaccine. 1:09:30 And I'm not an anti-vax person. 1:09:34 I've never consumed any anti-vax literature. 1:09:37 I don't know about the ingredients of any kind. 1:09:42 But the reason that my youngest son is not receiving any vaccines is because I don't trust the people that are offering them to us anymore. Speaker 22
1:09:55 Adam, thanks for coming. 1:09:56 I mean, and sharing your story, obviously to relive it, it's very painful. 1:10:02 Why did you, what was your initial thoughts of why you wanted to come and share your sister's story? Speaker 18
1:10:11 My sister's doctor in her writings said that, well, we can't be sure of the cause. 1:10:19 mRNA vaccinations can cause what, 1:10:24 killed her was called intracranial hemorrhage. 1:10:27 And they were aware that it could cause that for people with lupus or SLE. 1:10:33 And some other doctors went up the chain and some more doctors concurred with that assessment. 1:10:40 And then it went up to ArcSoro, the consultants that were running this at the time. 1:10:46 And 1:10:47 They gave my mother a good runaround for a good couple years requesting documents and eventually came back with what they thought was what they called inconclusive, that they couldn't be sure. 1:11:01 It's my belief that Oxara was brought in to rubber stamp a lot of no's to give the vaccine the appearance of legitimacy and safety. 1:11:12 And I think by the global news reports of 1:11:14 how they were misappropriating the funds. 1:11:18 I think that supports my assertion. 1:11:21 And I don't want them to have the last word on my sister. 1:11:26 I believe that my sister's death was a vaccine injury or a vaccine death. 1:11:30 And I wanted to put that on the record. 1:11:34 And I think it's, I wanted to support her. 1:11:39 I didn't want her to be swept under the rug. 1:11:41 And I wanted to 1:11:46 I wanted to, I guess, provide myself with a little bit of closure on this as well. 1:11:54 So again, they didn't have the final word on it. 1:11:57 And I wanted to support others who are vaccine injured or people who have lost someone. 1:12:05 My sister did so much for me in life. 1:12:08 She always had my back. 1:12:10 She taught me so many things. Speaker 14
1:12:13 And I just, I wanted to do this for her. Speaker 22
1:12:19 Once again, Adam, thank you. 1:12:21 Thank you so much for making such a great journey to be here to share about your sister and what she meant to you and your family. 1:12:31 It is greatly appreciated. 1:12:33 As I said once again, I know it can't be easy to do that. 1:12:36 So we do appreciate you taking the time and coming to see us. 1:12:39 Thanks. 1:12:40 Okay. 1:12:44 My colleagues, any questions at this time? 1:12:46 Thank you, Adam. 1:12:47 Appreciate it. 1:12:48 Thank you for your time. Speaker 17
1:12:52 Our next witness is Carol Messenger. 1:12:56 Carol, will you take the Bible in your right hand? 1:13:02 Carol Messenger, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Speaker 17
1:13:12 Now, your doctors have diagnosed what you're about to share with us as vaccine injury. 1:13:18 And you're one of the few that even the Vaccine Injury Support Program agrees you're vaccine injured. 1:13:24 And you did not have COVID prior to your injuries. Speaker 4
1:13:28 I did not. Speaker 17
1:13:29 So just to introduce you to the inquiry, you were 58 years of age. 1:13:35 You have four adult kids. 1:13:37 You've been married for 22 years. 1:13:39 I believe two of your kids are here in support of you today. 1:13:43 You had 22 years with Vancouver Fire Rescue Service. 1:13:48 You were a captain for eight of those years. 1:13:52 Prior to your vaccination, you were always in the gym, minimum three days a week. 1:13:57 You played pickleball, lots of walking and hiking. 1:14:00 And just to back up, I mean, in your profession, you had to maintain a certain level of physical fitness in any event. 1:14:06 And your health was excellent. 1:14:08 So can you share with us what happened with your vaccinations? Speaker 4
1:14:14 Yes. 1:14:16 So 1:14:17 June 24th of 2021, I had my second vaccination. 1:14:23 It was Moderna. 1:14:26 Prior to that, in April, I had my first vaccination, which was Pfizer. 1:14:31 No side effects from my first vaccination. 1:14:35 I was still currently employed as a captain with Vancouver Fire Rescue Services and soon to retire. 1:14:42 And it was mandated that we were to have vaccines. 1:14:46 At that point in my career, I actually was not on the fire trucks. 1:14:49 I was more an administrative role doing recruitment and outreach, but it was mandatory that everyone received the vaccinations. 1:14:58 So I did that literally on my way out of retirement with my husband too, who's 27 years in fire service in Vancouver. 1:15:07 And so literally three weeks and 1:15:11 six days after the day before my 54th birthday on July 18th of 2021 with no signs or symptoms. 1:15:21 Really at that point, I was very aware and very super healthy. 1:15:25 I had no health conditions whatsoever. 1:15:27 I'm very aware of my body. 1:15:28 And we happened to have our youngest and her boyfriend and we were out in Quadra Island. 1:15:35 We retired to Vancouver Island to the Comox Valley and 1:15:38 And we're out on our boat up in the morning watching the beautiful sunrise at 6.30, my husband and I. 1:15:44 And all of a sudden, I had this very odd sensation on the backside of my body. 1:15:50 It was really hard to explain, like pins and needles, but just weird. 1:15:53 For lack of better words, from the back of my butt all the way down to my feet. 1:15:58 And then I was like, oh. 1:16:00 I have to go to the bathroom. 1:16:01 Like it was like fight flight, like experience I'd never had. 1:16:04 So I made it down into the bathroom and lost all control of my bodily functions. 1:16:12 And then I couldn't stand up and cleaning myself up. 1:16:16 And I was determined that I wasn't going to call for help until I cleaned up. 1:16:20 And I thought I was having a stroke. 1:16:23 And I was like, 1:16:25 I'm a first responder. 1:16:26 I'm not supposed to be ill. 1:16:27 This is what I've done my whole life. 1:16:29 I'm not the patient. 1:16:31 And so I called for help. 1:16:35 They held the ferry. 1:16:36 We managed to get off the island and they took me to Campbell River Hospital. 1:16:41 I spent the first three days there and I couldn't feel anything from the waist down. 1:16:48 I couldn't walk initially. 1:16:50 I couldn't go to the bathroom. 1:16:52 I couldn't feel myself. 1:16:55 and they didn't really realize as they were assessing me what was going on. 1:16:59 And then I was like, well, I really have to go to the bathroom. 1:17:01 And I could, oh, run some hot water, push yourself into the bathroom. 1:17:05 And then it was like, well, yeah. 1:17:08 So I had to have a catheter because I couldn't go to the bathroom. 1:17:12 They talked to neurology at Victoria General, and they ended up transporting me about three days, three or four days down to Victoria General to the neurology department. 1:17:22 And I was told when I arrived there that they found a very large five centimeter lesion between my T10 and T11. 1:17:29 And they didn't know why. 1:17:31 It's like, what is this healthy woman doing here? 1:17:33 And collapsed and paralyzed. 1:17:36 And 1:17:38 So I was also told I was by myself because my husband had to get the boat back and the kids collect the RV to drive three hours down. 1:17:47 No one could really come. 1:17:48 They were just sort of opening up. 1:17:49 I think the hospitals at that time to maybe having one or two visitors. 1:17:53 So I was transported alone, taken down. 1:17:55 And the neurologist told me when I got down there, he says, it's either transverse myelitis or it's going to be a glioma tumor. 1:18:01 And if it's a glioma tumor, 1:18:04 I'm sorry. 1:18:06 And I'd never experienced like, well, you're telling me I have this all if you did. 1:18:10 So as I started to actually start to get a bit of sensation back, they concluded it was transverse myelitis and gave me massive steroids and then released me nine days, 10 days later to come home. Speaker 17
1:18:28 Now, I just want to slow you down. 1:18:29 So you had kind of lost this total feeling, but today there are areas where you don't have feeling. Speaker 4
1:18:38 Yes, I still have, for lack of better words, paralysis in my lower buttocks, my perineum, my vagina, my rectum, my thighs, down to my feet, especially my left foot. 1:18:50 I can't feel part of my heel or go on my toes. 1:18:53 I just have 1:18:55 I don't want to say permanent damage, spinal cord damage, because I'm always optimistic that I'll always get micro improvements. 1:19:02 And I've improved significantly well, considering it's such a rare autoimmune disorder. Speaker 17
1:19:10 Right. 1:19:10 And, you know, you told us about this catheter. 1:19:13 My understanding is you had that catheter for one and a half months. Speaker 4
1:19:16 I did full time. Speaker 17
1:19:18 And it's still a dysfunctional bladder and bowels. Speaker 4
1:19:22 Yeah, bowel's not so bad anymore, but it's always in the back of your mind what may or may not happen. 1:19:30 And then I had to be taught how to actually self catheter, which I didn't even know what that was. 1:19:36 So I did that for many months through lots of rehab and training and pelvic floor on top of everything else as I started to gradually get sensation back. Speaker 17
1:19:47 And, you know, I've seen you walking around, but you've assured me you walk with a limp Speaker 4
1:19:53 So it's more noticeable some days than others. 1:19:56 I still every week, I always have one or two people. 1:19:59 Well, what's wrong? 1:20:00 You look injured. 1:20:00 Why are you limping? Speaker 17
1:20:03 And you didn't share, but you have muscle spasms. 1:20:07 I mean, still up to five nights a week. 1:20:09 Can you share with us about that? Speaker 4
1:20:11 Yes, it started. 1:20:12 Funny enough, it started 13 months after my injury. 1:20:16 All of a sudden, if any of you have experienced, which I know most people have, you get a cramp in your foot and you jump up and yelp and stand up or stretch. 1:20:24 So imagine that magnified about. 1:20:27 100 times and it would last for up to 10 minutes where my whole leg would cease. 1:20:33 And I would just have to stop myself from hyperventilating and I would be up probably six, eight, 10 times a night forced out of bed. 1:20:41 So of course, sleep, everything was just a mess. 1:20:44 I had dysregulated thermal regulation from my waist down. 1:20:49 If you ever watched the movie Shrek, 1:20:51 One foot would turn into Shrek and the other one would look very different. 1:20:55 Hot and cold, searing pain with the nerve pain as well. Speaker 14
1:21:05 My understanding is you've got problems with thermal regulation also. Speaker 17
1:21:09 Can you share about that? Speaker 4
1:21:10 Yeah, so as to my point earlier, just, you know, when I was first injured at home, we were going through a bit of a heat dome, if anyone remembers, in August of 2021. 1:21:20 I had a heating pad and three pairs of wool socks and wool pants from the lower part of my body down and sweating in the upper part. 1:21:28 And there was just nothing I could do for it. 1:21:30 And there was nothing more that they did for me or that they could do for me at that point was just go home. Speaker 17
1:21:41 And your feet swell every day. 1:21:43 Can you share about that? Speaker 4
1:21:44 Yeah, they're just like little sausages. 1:21:47 So, you know, one minute you look down and your foot, sometimes it feels like it's burning and hot. 1:21:52 I'll take my sock off and it's freezing cold but swollen. 1:21:56 And then it will just, and it just can be triggered. 1:22:00 It's not triggered by anything. 1:22:01 It just happens. 1:22:03 So it's very uncomfortable. Speaker 17
1:22:05 And when I was interviewing you, now I think it's some weeks ago, 1:22:10 I asked for your permission to talk about the perinatal area. 1:22:15 Are you still willing to speak about that? 1:22:18 Yes. 1:22:19 So just because it's something that we don't think about, I mean, we're human adults and intimacy with our spouses are very important to us. 1:22:32 Can you just share about how that's changed? 1:22:34 Because it's an injury. Speaker 4
1:22:35 Absolutely. 1:22:37 And 1:22:38 You know, from the moment this happened and, you know, I came home, I would just always be lying on the living room floor, really just trying to rehab or get my head around things. 1:22:49 I felt just so broken. 1:22:53 I just felt like I'm not the same version of who I was. 1:22:57 And over time, of course, intimacy and things like when people have injuries or stressful things, those are one of the first things to go away. 1:23:03 So it was never really... 1:23:06 There was just bigger things. 1:23:07 I just needed to walk. 1:23:08 I needed to go to the bathroom. 1:23:09 But as time went on, it was like, I'm not getting back sensation. 1:23:13 You know, if you imagine, you know, human pleasure and connection is not just about, you know, penetration and intercourse. 1:23:20 It's everything, right? 1:23:22 Sensation, touch, feeling. 1:23:24 And when you're paralyzed and coming back to you, you lose all muscle tone and feeling too. 1:23:30 And that was inside me as well. 1:23:32 So when you think of the bladder and your colon and you think about, 1:23:36 you know, a woman's anatomy and a man's anatomy, you know, I can't orgasm, you know, and I know it's not all about intimacy and relationships is not just about, you know, the big O, but just imagine today, if you were like, what have I lost that ability to even feel pleasure and even feel, I felt so broken. 1:23:57 I didn't even feel worthy. 1:23:58 I felt like no one, even though my husband's been incredible, 1:24:02 that's just some of the emotional trauma that one goes through right in so many ways so yeah so that uh those areas are still affected carol thanks so much thanks for being here and sharing your story yeah we do have some time for questions uh Speaker 22
1:24:31 But I do have a couple of questions for sure. 1:24:34 Just talk to me. 1:24:35 You know, I'm always asking people about how it's affected their relationships with their immediate family and spouses, et cetera, et cetera. 1:24:43 Just talk to me a little bit about that. 1:24:49 You're in general, not specifically. Speaker 4
1:24:51 Yeah, no, no, no. 1:24:52 Yeah, no. 1:24:54 A husband and my, we have four children who are amazing, two grandchildren, so supportful, as much as they could be as we literally left our community and moved to the island and no one was traveling and, you know, a lot of it was FaceTimes. 1:25:11 There were some, you know, I think challenges. 1:25:12 There were, I think, things through family or close friends. 1:25:16 People were like, you know, I don't know if they, they didn't, I didn't feel gaslit to my face, but I think there was times where people were like, oh, really? 1:25:24 you know, and not very believed. 1:25:27 Sometimes it was just a feeling. 1:25:28 You just knew. 1:25:30 I never really thought about me being affected. 1:25:34 I had thought about the vaccine, but it wasn't until my neurologist at UBC says, you have to apply to the Vaccine Injury Support Program. 1:25:41 You had a very, very significant spinal cord injury and it's incomplete and you're damaged and you need to do that. 1:25:48 And I didn't even know it existed. 1:25:51 And that was a whole journey of just 1:25:54 It's been terrible. Speaker 22
1:25:55 Do you mind talking about, because that's part of what we're talking about is how difficult the injury support program is to access and those lost files, the refiling of files, et cetera, et cetera. Speaker 4
1:26:06 Yes. 1:26:08 When I applied in the fall of 2023, 1:26:12 First off, I never heard anything for about four months. 1:26:15 And they were saying the lead time was about two weeks at that point. 1:26:18 So I started to follow up with emails and escalate. 1:26:21 I finally was assigned a caseworker after I escalated. 1:26:26 And the caseworker didn't know my name, called the wrong file up. 1:26:32 I was like, are you new? 1:26:34 I'm sorry. 1:26:34 It didn't leave me with a lot of confidence. 1:26:37 Turned out I didn't hear anything for another four or five months. 1:26:40 That person was either let go or fired. 1:26:42 And then my file was misplaced. 1:26:44 Took another close to a year before I got another case manager job. 1:26:48 And then when they started to move things along, one of the worst things, well, first off, they would never answer your call, wouldn't reply back in a timely manner, like weeks and months, don't even bother leaving a voicemail. 1:27:01 And then my neurologist, one of my neurologists in NIMO says, we have a letter here saying that you have been declared dead by the Vaccine Injury Support Program. 1:27:10 And they haven't responded to our request to, in fact, you aren't deceased. 1:27:15 So we would just like you to change the letter to get the records. 1:27:18 And that took another four or five months and I had to do it. 1:27:21 The case manager asked me to do it and then asked me to follow up on the other people who weren't getting them files. 1:27:28 Um, 1:27:29 And then eventually move forward. 1:27:32 And I still have some appeals in. 1:27:33 I'm one of the lucky over 250 people, if I can call that even lucky, that have received a small award. 1:27:41 I have no expenses covered or out thousands of dollars. 1:27:44 I just retired and didn't draw my pension. 1:27:47 I had no benefits. 1:27:48 I couldn't be on my husband's benefits because Blue Cross in retirement is really not great. 1:27:54 it would have been better to be employed and had stayed and had that support. 1:27:57 I didn't have any counseling covered. 1:27:59 They denied it. 1:28:00 They said they wouldn't even pay for the catheters that I had to use because I would have had to have a prosthetic urethra to qualify to get those medical supplies that I had to have. Speaker 22
1:28:13 Now, did you retire early then? Speaker 4
1:28:16 I did. 1:28:16 I retired about a year and a half early before my 80 formula. Speaker 22
1:28:20 And I was... As a result of the injury? Speaker 4
1:28:24 No, actually, the injury happened right after I had left in retirement. Speaker 22
1:28:28 Okay. 1:28:28 And so a lot of people talk about the cost. 1:28:31 People don't understand that, you know, provincial, federal programs talk a bit about additional costs that 1:28:38 you know, you have to incur as a result of the injury. Speaker 4
1:28:40 Oh, after the injury, all the costs that haven't, oh, well, of course, all the medical supplies that I needed, the rehab, everything from neurophysio, I mean, I was trying to do everything. 1:28:52 Rehab Pilates, there's the thing, neurophysio, the hospital was giving rehab, massage. 1:28:59 I was so determined that I just, because I was very fit and healthy too, so I just did everything that I could possibly do to rewire my muscles, my brain, so I could live a healthy and happy life for myself, my husband, our family. Speaker 22
1:29:13 How are you feeling today? 1:29:15 Do you feel like you've been improving? 1:29:16 Are you declining? 1:29:18 Do you feel like you're making progress? Speaker 4
1:29:21 I feel like I've made significant progress. 1:29:23 I think part of what has kept me in the healing road is that I always, you know, self-pity is not an option. 1:29:30 I look at others and I go, there's so many other people affected so much worse than me. 1:29:34 And not to minimize how devastating this has been to me and my family and our trust in this whole situation. 1:29:44 whole outlaying of the vaccinations. 1:29:48 I'm sorry, I forgot your question, because that's also something, too, the brain fog has been really terrible since all of this, and I keep thinking it's just menopause, but I really think it's... Speaker 22
1:29:56 I was just talking about recovery. Speaker 4
1:29:58 No, my recovery is, say, about 90%. 1:30:02 I feel like I've recovered from being in a wheelchair, walker, catheters, all of that. 1:30:07 I feel like I'm about 90%, and I'm always optimistic that... Well, that'd probably be because of what a determined person you are, Speaker 22
1:30:13 and how healthy you were before, and how disciplined you were before, right? Speaker 4
1:30:16 I think absolutely. 1:30:18 I think all those things. 1:30:19 And the love and support, I thought, has given me the strength. Speaker 22
1:30:23 Do you feel, like you said, you know, in terms of 1:30:26 being able to discuss this. 1:30:27 You did sort of touch on that a bit. 1:30:29 Do you feel it's been difficult to talk about these things? 1:30:32 Like your injury as it relates to a vaccine injury versus something else? Speaker 4
1:30:37 For sure. 1:30:38 On a few levels, you know, like even Sean asking me such a personal, intimate, you know, question and, you know, we're live and everyone in the world is hearing about my vagina. 1:30:48 You know, I mean, that's a bit daunting to be quite frank. 1:30:54 But also sometimes, yeah, a fear of like, there's a lot of people with some strong opinions, right? 1:31:00 But I can't worry about that. 1:31:02 This is my story. 1:31:03 This is my life. 1:31:04 And you can think and believe what you want. 1:31:06 But until you've walked a mile in most of these people's shoes, and I hear people like, I don't know anyone injured. 1:31:13 You know, it's like, now you do. Speaker 22
1:31:15 Yeah. 1:31:16 Well, and I think the other thing too is like, what we're trying to do, right? 1:31:19 We want to give people permission to talk about their stories publicly, right? 1:31:23 You can't start the healing. 1:31:24 You can't do anything if we can't discuss this. Speaker 4
1:31:27 And if it helps one other person, me coming here all across the country, is that if it helps even one person not feel alone and not feel gaslit, it makes them feel like, you know, she got through it, he got through it, and it's worth it. Speaker 22
1:31:44 I guarantee you're going to help more than one person as so many people are following what's going on here around the world and in Canada. 1:31:52 We really pray that your story is going to be an inspiration for others as well in terms of that. 1:31:59 I can't thank you enough for coming and for your kids, for being here is supportive. 1:32:04 Thank you. 1:32:04 You guys have traveled a great distance. 1:32:06 And so I just want to thank you once again for taking the time to be here. 1:32:10 Is there any other final questions for any of my colleagues? 1:32:13 Okay. Speaker 4
1:32:13 Thank you, MP Austin. Speaker 22
1:32:14 Thanks, Carol. Speaker 14
1:32:15 Appreciate it so much. 1:32:22 And Miriam Bohemi, counsel, is going to be calling the next witness. Speaker 13
1:32:28 Miriam Bohemi, counsel, is going to be calling the next witness. 1:32:51 Just the truth. 1:32:52 I swear. 1:32:53 I swear. Speaker 30
1:32:54 Perfect. Speaker 13
1:32:57 So, Ms. Avouane, you are a famous single mother of four children between 23 and 37 years old. 1:33:09 And you will be a grandmother for the first time at the end of September. 1:33:15 And at the time of the vaccination, you were at work for Burnout. Speaker 1
1:33:19 Oui, c'est ça. 1:33:20 J'étais en arrêt de travail pour l'épuisement professionnel qui est arrivé en 2019. 1:33:25 Puis en 2020, je venais de perdre ma mère aussi en 2020. 1:33:28 Ça a prolongé un peu mon épuisement psychologique et professionnel. Speaker 13
1:33:35 Donc, racontez-nous comment c'est arrivé que vous avez été vacciné avec une dose d'AstraZeneca le 22 avril 2021. 1:33:45 Qu'est-ce qui vous a... 1:33:48 Comment c'est arrivé cette vaccination-là? 1:33:50 Parce que vous avez une histoire particulière. Speaker 24
1:33:52 En fait, I have a particular history. 1:33:55 Yes. 1:33:56 So I had been off work for about two years. 1:34:00 So I needed to find a new job. 1:34:03 And where I lived, they were asking for proof of vaccination for workers. 1:34:09 So I figured that I would go because that would solve the issue. 1:34:13 Because I was not anti-vax. 1:34:15 I want to specify that. 1:34:16 I've had all of my childhood vaccinations. 1:34:18 So did my children. 1:34:20 So for me, it was pretty normal to be vaccinated. 1:34:25 However, with the information that I had, I heard that AstraZeneca had been 1:34:34 was the most similar vaccine to old vaccines. 1:34:39 So that's the main reason why I chose AstraZeneca. 1:34:42 And I, I'm one of the 400 some thousand people who received AstraZeneca in Quebec. 1:34:56 So they opened, so they opened new time slots for AstraZeneca and they also reduced the 1:35:05 So that's why I became eligible for it. 1:35:07 So that's how I got my appointment for AstraZeneca. 1:35:11 And I thought that it would be a better vaccine. 1:35:16 So they made it sound like you were one of the lucky ones. 1:35:23 Yes. 1:35:24 And when the online platform opened up and when all the appointments were taken, there was a press conference with Minister Dubé. 1:35:34 And he congratulated all the people who managed to get an appointment. 1:35:38 And he said that all of those who got an appointment, consider yourselves lucky. 1:35:43 It's as if you won the lottery. 1:35:46 Well, today I'd like to return my prize. 1:35:52 So following your vaccination with AstraZeneca on April 22, 2021, tell us what happened. 1:36:00 Well, for the first 20 days, I did not really have side effects. 1:36:06 I maybe had a light fever. 1:36:08 And then on my daughter's birthday, and I will always remember that, I had just found a new job. 1:36:17 I had gone to work for two days, and then I felt some pain or pulling in my 1:36:25 ear and it started pulling around my mouth and I thought it was due to stress so I decided to go lie down and maybe that would solve the issue and I'd go to work the next day but when I woke up the next morning half of my face was paralyzed so I went to the emergency room so so we've heard a few people mention this so 1:36:55 I just want to mention how scary it must have been to wake up in that situation. 1:37:01 So you just get up in the morning and half of your face is paralyzed. 1:37:05 So could you tell us more about how you felt in that moment? 1:37:10 Well, that's right. 1:37:10 I panicked. 1:37:12 I called my sister and she panicked and she thought that I was having a stroke because it is one of the symptoms. 1:37:21 So the entire family started panicking. 1:37:25 So I went to the emergency room. 1:37:27 I waited a long time. 1:37:29 I had to go alone because we were not allowed to have people with us. 1:37:36 My appointment with the emergency doctor lasted not even 10 minutes. 1:37:41 I entered the clinic and she sat me down. 1:37:44 She made me close my eyes and she saw that I had Bell's palsy and she sat down and I wanted to tell her that I had been vaccinated and, uh, 1:37:52 I had my back to her because she was behind me and I wanted to tell her that I had a vaccine and she said, I don't need to see a vaccine certificate in any way. 1:38:03 It's not due to that. 1:38:05 And I was already in a state that I did not understand. 1:38:08 I did not know what Bell's palsy was. 1:38:11 I'd never heard of that condition before. 1:38:17 She gave me a prescription for some medication. 1:38:20 She gave me a prescription for 1:38:22 an ear, nose and throat doctor. 1:38:24 And for Bell's palsy, she told me about Jean Chrétien who had a wonderful life despite his Bell's palsy. 1:38:37 I asked her for a medical note for my workplace and she said she wouldn't give me one because I didn't need it because maybe I'd stay that way all my life. 1:38:48 So from what I understand, 1:38:50 So she mentioned Jean Chrétien and she said that you could have a wonderful life just like Jean Chrétien. 1:38:58 Yeah, and then she left and she left me in her office and I did not understand anything. 1:39:04 I left the office in tears. 1:39:06 I was in tears and crying profusely on the sidewalk. 1:39:10 I did not understand what was happening to me. 1:39:12 I did not understand what had just happened at the appointment. 1:39:15 And when I got home, I did some research to see what Bell's palsy is. 1:39:21 And in the criteria that I saw, Bell's palsy usually occurs within eight weeks. 1:39:28 So I did not know why she said that I would have Bell's palsy my whole life. 1:39:33 She could have told me that within eight weeks, my Bell's palsy might disappear, but that's not what happened. 1:39:41 So one week later, I went to the ear, nose and throat doctor and she sent me for extra, uh, 1:39:51 extra tests like an MRI and an electromyogram. 1:39:55 And I asked her if there was a link to the vaccination. 1:39:57 And she said that it was unrelated and that all influenza vaccines could cause Bell's palsy. 1:40:05 But in my case, that's not what happened. 1:40:08 And I asked about my second dose because I already had an appointment set for that. 1:40:13 And she said that she recommended it because a 1:40:17 I was better off in my state than if I had caught COVID. 1:40:23 And she told me to get a Pfizer dose because it would be, she said Pfizer would be a safer second dose. 1:40:31 In the end, I did not get my second dose, but these were my first two medical appointments. 1:40:37 And then in June, something else happened. 1:40:39 Please tell us what happened. 1:40:42 Yes, so in mid-June, I tried to go to the washroom to pee. 1:40:47 And as I was peeing, I noticed that something was wrong. 1:40:53 So I knew that I was bleeding. 1:40:56 And how long had you been menopause? 1:40:58 I had been menopause for seven years. 1:41:03 So that experience was very strange because when I noticed that something was happening, I tried to get up to see the color of what was in the toilet. 1:41:14 And I 1:41:18 I tried to get up and lean on the counter and my legs gave out. 1:41:23 And I started screaming, what's happening? 1:41:25 What's happening? 1:41:26 And the person I lived with entered the washroom and I said, I'm going to pass out. 1:41:31 So she helped me lie down. 1:41:35 So I won't tell you, I'll spare you the details because, you know, my panties were off and I was on the floor. 1:41:41 So she helped me lie down and 1:41:44 As I laid down, I felt myself lose consciousness. 1:41:46 But I did not lose consciousness. 1:41:49 But nothing was working. 1:41:52 I couldn't see anything. 1:41:53 My body was shaking. 1:41:56 And in my head, I was screaming like, what's happening? 1:42:00 What's happening? 1:42:00 But I couldn't talk. 1:42:02 And it was terrifying. 1:42:06 And when I came to, I laid down because I felt exhausted. 1:42:13 And I get vagus reactions. 1:42:19 I've had that before, and I know it happens. 1:42:21 I know that I will pass out. 1:42:23 But I had a similar symptom, but while fully conscious. 1:42:28 And how long did you keep bleeding for? 1:42:29 I bled for two weeks, two weeks nonstop. 1:42:32 And were they like a normal period? 1:42:35 So what was the difference? 1:42:37 So it was just a vivid red blood, right? 1:42:45 And I would like us to see the photo of you before. 1:42:49 So tell us when that was. 1:42:52 That was in 2020. 1:42:54 Yeah. 1:42:55 So 2020, just before my mother passed away. 1:42:59 And then let's show a picture of you. 1:43:04 88 days after your AstraZeneca vaccine. 1:43:11 So... 1:43:13 I had been paralyzed for 88 days. 1:43:17 I couldn't close my eye and it took seven months before I could close my eye again. 1:43:23 Tell us what you had to do to sleep. 1:43:26 Well, today, I still have to use medical tape over my eye in order to sleep because if I try to force my eyes closed, I get spasms and 1:43:44 If I take a shower, I have to close my eyes while I'm washing my hair and I end up getting cramps. 1:43:55 So imagine the type of cramp that you would have on a toe or on your calf. 1:43:59 Well, I get these kinds of cramps in my neck. 1:44:04 And can you describe your symptoms? 1:44:10 So the symptoms that you had and that you still live with today. 1:44:14 So I have a grade three paralysis. 1:44:19 It means that I can't go outside without my sunglasses. 1:44:23 When I eat, my eye runs. 1:44:28 I salivate. 1:44:30 My nose runs. 1:44:31 I can't use a glass. 1:44:34 I have to use a straw when I drink. 1:44:36 There are certain things that I cannot eat anymore. 1:44:40 And for my ear here, I have a paralyzed eardrum, so the sound is different in my two ears. 1:44:48 And I get horrible spasms. 1:44:53 And at first, the spasms weren't too bad. 1:44:57 But what happened is that two years after my paralysis... 1:45:01 I had just resumed work. 1:45:04 I had a new job for about a year. 1:45:07 Yes, but let's go back for a minute. 1:45:09 So once you were paralyzed, you were unable to work for a year. 1:45:14 And then you managed to return to work after a year. 1:45:20 And what happened? 1:45:23 So I had a wisdom tooth problem. 1:45:29 I was told that due to my Bell's palsy situation, if I had dental problems, I had to go see a maxillofacial specialist. 1:45:40 I did not have anybody I could talk to. 1:45:43 So I went to the emergency room for my wisdom tooth and they all told me that they couldn't help me, that they weren't dentists. 1:45:50 So on the very last day, I went back home and I'm very afraid of dentists. 1:45:58 So I tried to use pliers and I went to my downstairs neighbors and I told him to pull my tooth out. 1:46:06 It didn't work. 1:46:08 And thankfully, thankfully so. 1:46:10 But the next day I went to the dentist and they had to pull my tooth. 1:46:18 And after that, I was off work for two and a half years. 1:46:22 So what happened? 1:46:28 So it increased my disability by 300%. 1:46:36 So I had spasms in that entire area. 1:46:38 And ever since my tooth was pulled, I have spasms on half of my head. 1:46:44 And those spasms continue all the way down to my shoulder and my back. 1:46:49 And then there's also what's happening inside my head. 1:46:52 I have spasms in my throat, my tongue, my ear. 1:46:57 my nose, and those spasms are so bad, especially when I'm tired or stressed. 1:47:04 Those are the worst. 1:47:07 They worsen my symptoms and sometimes I can't talk and it starts pulling on my tongue and it's as if the inside of my head is trying to fall into my body and it's extremely painful. 1:47:24 So right before going to the dentist, you went to the hospital. 1:47:28 Yes, I went to three hospitals. 1:47:30 And you asked to meet a maxillofacial surgeon. 1:47:33 And what did they tell you? 1:47:35 They told me that they would ask on my behalf that I would have to wait. 1:47:40 And it's been three years since that request and I've never had any updates. 1:47:46 And now I have my last wisdom tooth that's also causing trouble. 1:47:51 And I've had issues for three months now. 1:47:53 And I've 1:47:54 waited and waited and at one point it broke on its own and I had to put little sterile compresses between my cheek and my tooth because otherwise it was tearing the inside of my cheek and I don't want to bounce around the story too much so another piece broke but I still have to wait for the tooth to fully break before I get better because I don't have access to a maxillofacial surgeon 1:48:23 So that makes things complicated. 1:48:31 Following the increase in your symptoms, you stopped working for two and a half years, you said? 1:48:37 Yes. 1:48:38 And today do you work? 1:48:39 Yes. 1:48:39 So I've resumed work and it's been a year and two months. 1:48:44 And how was that time period? 1:48:48 Because you... 1:48:50 weren't working for two and a half years. 1:48:52 So how did you support yourself? 1:48:54 Well, I was getting EI for disability. 1:49:00 And I must say that for the first years of my paralysis, I did not have any pain. 1:49:06 I did not feel pain. 1:49:08 And I told my doctor that I had lost sensation. 1:49:13 They didn't care about that. 1:49:15 did not have any pain but ever since I got my tooth pulled now I have pain and the pain is quite intense and the first and the first time that pain lasted 36 days and I was in bed crying and writhing and my doctor tried to find medication for me but I found no relief so I stopped working for two and a half years and 1:49:42 And then afterwards, I was unable to return to work. 1:49:45 So I had to get on social assistance. Speaker 7
1:49:51 And that gave me $830 a month. 1:49:54 And with heating, I had to pay $850 in rent. 1:49:59 My kids had to help me. 1:50:03 They really gave me the money I needed to live. 1:50:08 And so now you can work 30 hours a week, correct? 1:50:12 Yes. 1:50:14 And it depends on my spasms, my fatigue, my stress levels. 1:50:20 I had a lot of problems with my landlord a few months ago because there were some repairs needed in my apartment and that was extremely stressful. 1:50:28 I had to miss work because when I'm stressed, I'm unable to speak. 1:50:32 My jaw is really tight because of the spasms that can be quite intense. 1:50:38 So when I'm experiencing stress, 1:50:42 high levels of stress. 1:50:44 I'm unable to speak. 1:50:47 In Quebec, we have a compensation program for vaccine injury victims. 1:50:53 And so you tried to get access to this program. 1:50:56 Your doctor acknowledged that there is a causality between Bell's palsy and the vaccine that you received. 1:51:05 And so when did you try and, and, um, 1:51:12 subscribe to this program. 1:51:13 Well, I needed a doctor's note to be able to subscribe to it. 1:51:23 What I did was go on AstraZeneca's website. 1:51:28 I signaled my, the effects that the vaccine had on me. 1:51:35 And I don't know if the doctor then filled out the note. 1:51:38 They never wanted to 1:51:40 take my vaccine proof into account it wasn't in my file then two years later I testified at the Citizens National Commission in Quebec and that's where I met my doctor who was willing to help me a doctor that has a high level of integrity and does excellent work and I really thank him from the bottom of my heart and he um 1:52:10 confirmed my side effects two years later. 1:52:12 So have you received compensation? 1:52:15 I am represented by lawyers, CGL in Quebec. 1:52:24 I've been waiting for three years and I still haven't had any updates. Speaker 15
1:52:32 You told me two very important things. Speaker 7
1:52:39 And 1:52:40 There's one thing that you haven't told me personally, but you talked about it on your Facebook page and I thought it was important to mention it today. 1:52:49 You received one dose of vaccine and so you were not considered as being vaccinated or unvaccinated. 1:52:57 You were kind of in the middle and both sides judged you. 1:53:03 So could you tell us about your experience, how you 1:53:10 Experienced that in August 2021 was when my side effects started manifesting. 1:53:19 What you see on the screen is a screen grab from a video that I put on social media where I spoke about the side effects of the vaccine. 1:53:27 I was insulted by the unvaccinated. 1:53:31 They told me that all I had to do was not get vaccinated, that I deserved what was happening, that it was karma, etc., 1:53:39 And from the vaccinated, I was accused of lying, that I was accused of trying to instill fear in people. 1:53:46 And so both sides insulted me. 1:53:48 And what I told people who were unvaccinated for the most part was that I know that they've been saying for a long time that the vaccine was dangerous. 1:54:02 But if people like me didn't testify about their experience... 1:54:07 if there weren't people like me who are humble enough to say that they made a mistake and that they were tricked, if we didn't speak up, there would be no credibility to their claims. 1:54:19 So you're living proof of what they are saying, the unvaccinated, that the vaccine is dangerous. 1:54:29 So yes, without our testimony, what they have been claiming has no proof. 1:54:37 When I was vaccinated, I was on one medication and I had been for seven years. 1:54:42 So I was healthy. 1:54:43 I don't have diabetes. 1:54:45 I don't have high blood pressure. 1:54:46 And to this day, I still don't take any medication apart from the one I mentioned. 1:54:50 So my file is pretty simple. 1:54:54 My case is simple. 1:54:57 It's pretty obvious that there's a causal link between the vaccine and all my health issues today. 1:55:04 What was the hardest part of all this for you? 1:55:15 The fact that I am not listened to, I'm not believed. 1:55:20 The medical system and its representatives aren't helping me. 1:55:25 The government is also not helping. 1:55:27 They were the first to say that they would be there to help. 1:55:30 And today we realize that that's not the case. 1:55:34 The medical system, the health care system has failed me. 1:55:39 I haven't been to the hospital for over a year and I know I have other health issues, but 1:55:44 I don't want to go to the hospital. 1:55:45 I don't trust the healthcare system. 1:55:48 Last time I went, I brought a friend with me because if I'm unaccompanied, people make fun of me. 1:55:55 They don't take me seriously. 1:55:57 I had an appointment with a neurologist after my side effects increased and my cranial nerves were affected. 1:56:10 That was something that I was not suffering from 1:56:13 before the vaccine like multiple cranial nerves couldn't be affected at the same time that was never seen before so doctors must have known that because today they don't want to make me do any tests bell's palsy makes your face kind of um 1:56:41 it's paralyzed. 1:56:42 And so now people, when I get shots or if I get needles, I don't even feel them. 1:56:49 So if I don't have pain, that means one nerve is affected. 1:56:52 If I have another symptom, that means another nerve is affected, but I can't know for sure because last time I tried to see my neurologist to get explanations as to why my symptoms had increased and worsened, I was referred to his intern and my neurologist came to see me, but 1:57:11 He had one foot in the door and one foot outside, so his body language was telling. 1:57:17 And he left me alone with his intern. 1:57:22 One last thing. 1:57:25 When I have to go in for tests, tests that have been prescribed, they don't give me the right tests. 1:57:32 I've had tumors and they tested my thyroid. 1:57:38 I had an x-ray on my neck. 1:57:45 And when I saw the screen, I saw that on my file it was written that I was getting my thyroid screened. 1:57:54 So that's kind of what happens every time I go in for tests. Speaker 22
1:57:58 Thank you for coming today and sharing your testimony. 1:58:01 And once again, we hate the fact that people have got to relive their experiences. 1:58:07 But thank you. 1:58:08 Merci beaucoup. Speaker 7
1:58:15 Thank you so much, Ms. Avouan, for your testimony. Speaker 14
1:58:30 Thank you. Speaker 17
1:58:32 Thank you, Miriam. 1:58:34 Our next witness is Dr. 1:58:36 Crystal Lucci. 1:58:38 Did I pronounce that right? Speaker 6
1:58:40 Lucci. 1:58:41 Thank you. Speaker 17
1:58:42 I'm sorry. Speaker 6
1:58:43 That's okay. Speaker 17
1:58:44 Will you please take the Bible in your right hand? 1:58:48 Crystal, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Speaker 24
1:58:54 Yes, I do. Speaker 17
1:58:56 I'm just going to lead you a little bit. 1:58:59 But you are here to testify for your brother, Scott Gorey. Speaker 6
1:59:02 Yes, correct. Speaker 17
1:59:04 And Scott actually spoke about wanting to testify at this inquiry. 1:59:10 Can you tell us about that? Speaker 6
1:59:12 He did. 1:59:14 Scott was 48 when he passed away. 1:59:21 He was a parliamentary worker, an aide. 1:59:31 He was my brother. Speaker 17
1:59:32 But I'm just wanting to lead you through some things. 1:59:36 I'm going to let you go in a second. 1:59:37 Okay. 1:59:38 The point I was trying to make is he actually spoke to you. 1:59:40 He wanted to testify personally at this inquiry. Speaker 6
1:59:44 Yeah. 1:59:44 So in the hospital, I guess he was going through some of his health issues. 1:59:50 He did bring this to my attention. 1:59:52 I wasn't aware of it. 1:59:54 And said when he gets out of the hospital, this is what he would like to be doing and sharing his story. 2:00:02 At the Allison inquiry. Speaker 17
2:00:04 Right. 2:00:04 And he died on July 4th. 2:00:06 So you're here testifying for him. Speaker 6
2:00:09 Yes, I am. Speaker 17
2:00:11 And Scott was a parliamentary aide. 2:00:14 He worked on Parliament Hill here in Ottawa. Speaker 17
2:00:18 And the last MP he worked for was MP Blaine Calkins, who's in attendance here today. Speaker 17
2:00:24 To listen to you. Speaker 6
2:00:25 Hi, Blaine. Speaker 17
2:00:29 And we know that Scott never had COVID because he was tested many times through this. Speaker 17
2:00:35 And we also know that this is a vaccine injury because the doctors have confirmed it. 2:00:40 And even the Vaccine Injury Support Program has confirmed this is vaccine injury. Speaker 17
2:00:46 So can you tell us about your brother? Speaker 6
2:00:50 Yes. 2:00:51 He was larger than life. 2:00:56 Big, friendly giant. 2:00:57 Huge. 2:01:00 would wrap you in stories for hours, and he just loved life. 2:01:05 He loved being a father. 2:01:10 It was his pride and joy. 2:01:14 He loved being a son to my parents. 2:01:16 He loved his family. 2:01:17 He loved his friends. 2:01:18 He was loyal. 2:01:20 He was amazing. 2:01:22 He was very active. 2:01:24 He volunteered. 2:01:28 Just an incredible human. 2:01:32 And we miss him very much. Speaker 17
2:01:35 And he had two children when he passed, Caleb, who is age 10, and Olivia, who is age 8. Speaker 17
2:01:43 And he had a spouse. Speaker 17
2:01:46 So, Mylene. Speaker 17
2:01:52 And you were very close to Scott yourself. Speaker 6
2:01:54 Very close. 2:01:55 We were. 2:01:57 Inseparable. 2:01:58 Unconditional love. 2:02:00 No questions. 2:02:01 Always had each other's backs. 2:02:03 There for everything. Speaker 17
2:02:06 What's one of your fondest memories about Scott? Speaker 6
2:02:11 Probably at my wedding. 2:02:14 We had a golf tournament during the day and he went out golfing with all of the groomsmen and we were in each other's weddings. 2:02:26 And he had 2:02:27 a couple of drinks and had a blast. 2:02:30 And then during the ceremony, as I was walking down the aisle, he was a bumbling mess. 2:02:38 And it was very cute to see a big burly man as I'm walking down the aisle, crying like a baby. 2:02:46 It was, he would be embarrassed if I told that story, but he would also love it too. 2:02:53 And when my daughter was born, it was the first grandchild in 2:02:58 our family and first niece or any babies in our family. 2:03:03 And, again, Scott was 6'4", 6'5". 2:03:07 Like, he was really big. 2:03:10 And this little tiny baby in his arms, it was just beautiful. 2:03:16 Yeah. 2:03:17 We have a lot of great memories. Speaker 17
2:03:20 Can we pull up, David, some videos of Scott just so we can see who we're? Speaker 6
2:03:26 Oh, yeah. Speaker 17
2:03:27 So can you share with us what's happening in this video? Speaker 6
2:03:30 Yeah. 2:03:30 So we were out West in Alberta for my uncle's wedding and that's my brother's spot, my mom in the middle. 2:03:39 And that's me. 2:03:41 We had a blast at that during that trip. 2:03:44 Yeah. Speaker 17
2:03:46 David, can you pull up the next photograph? Speaker 6
2:03:49 And that's the picture I was kind of just describing. 2:03:51 That was the day or the next day after my, 2:03:56 daughter Berkeley was born. 2:04:00 And you can see, right, the human connection. 2:04:03 And I think that's what's really missing in all of these policies and all of this stuff we're going to talk about. 2:04:10 But that right there is the human condition. 2:04:14 It's what life is about. 2:04:18 And who gets to determine and who gets to intervene and who gets to change the lives of Speaker 17
2:04:26 these people it's interesting that when i first saw this photograph i had to assume that this was one of scott's own children just the way he's so affectionately exactly holding and so engaged he loved so big he loved so hard with all of his heart with everything about him Speaker 6
2:04:52 And there was no question. 2:04:53 You can tell he's embracing my daughter as if it was his own too. 2:04:59 And we were a very close family. Speaker 17
2:05:03 Can we go to the next photograph, David? 2:05:07 Tell us about this photograph. Speaker 6
2:05:08 So this is Scott with Caleb and Olivia. 2:05:15 And that was... 2:05:23 A little bit after his injury. 2:05:24 And they're quite young, you can see. 2:05:28 Five and three. 2:05:30 And he had the best hugs and the best snuggles. 2:05:37 And those kids absolutely love him. Speaker 17
2:05:42 It also looks like he's got varipause. Speaker 6
2:05:46 He does. 2:05:47 He was, again, really larger than life. 2:05:52 human being and those hugs just dropped you right in he was really incredible he described him to me as a big teddy bear huge teddy bear and his daughter she had him wrapped around her little finger and still does and Caleb was just the light of his life and he loved being a father to them 2:06:22 And he loved being a husband to his wife. 2:06:26 They were building a beautiful life together. Speaker 17
2:06:28 I want you to share with us his, I guess, journey with the vaccines and what followed. 2:06:44 So can you just jump into that and share that with us? 2:06:46 Sure. Speaker 6
2:06:48 As I do that, 2:06:50 Everyone listening, I'd just like you to imagine that you have some lenses, like my glasses here, that you can put on and imagine what it would be like to experience from Scott's perspective, from the lenses of how this would all feel and what it would be like, and also from his children's perspective, because they were present for 2:07:20 Some horrific things that happened. 2:07:24 So Scott, as he was a parliamentary aide, so he, we had lots of discussions and he needed to get the vaccine to maintain his employment. 2:07:35 And he... Can I just interject? Speaker 17
2:07:37 Sure. 2:07:38 So you and him had discussions. 2:07:40 You're a medical doctor. Speaker 6
2:07:42 I am a medical doctor. 2:07:43 I'm a family doctor. Speaker 17
2:07:45 Family physician, hospitalist. 2:07:47 palliative care, you're a medical doctor. 2:07:50 And so when you're saying you're having discussions with him, that's from the perspective of a sister who has his best interest in heart, but you also have the background as being a medical doctor. Speaker 6
2:08:01 100%. 2:08:02 Okay. 2:08:02 Yes. 2:08:04 So this is, he gets his first vaccine after we've had discussions about, there were already safety concerns. 2:08:17 And 2:08:18 He got his first vaccine in April or May of 2021. 2:08:27 And approximately four weeks later, he called me and he had had a syncopal episode, which means he passed out, completely passed out unconscious at home while he was cooking in his kitchen and his stove was 2:08:49 his oven glass broke and he did not know how long he was unconscious for. 2:08:56 He had nothing leading up to it, no signs that something was going to happen, just lights out. 2:09:05 And he hit the floor and he had some injuries. 2:09:07 He called me and I told him that he needed to call 911 because a true syncopal episode in a young healthy person 2:09:17 active like he was, is cardiac until proven otherwise. 2:09:22 And so he did. 2:09:24 And I asked him because, again, safety signals were already emerging in the scientific literature related to myocarditis. 2:09:34 I asked him to make sure that they would check either a bedside ultrasound of his heart or an echocardiogram to have a look and make sure that there is no myocarditis or pericarditis present. 2:09:48 when he got to the hospital, they did some blood work in an ECG and they did not, they would not have a look because it was highly unlikely. 2:10:01 That was the term that was used a lot. 2:10:04 And he heard it over and over again, that it was highly unlikely to be related to the vaccine. 2:10:12 So he was sent home, referred to an outpatient cardiologist and 2:10:19 About six weeks later, he had that appointment and they did do an echocardiogram. 2:10:25 He hadn't got the results yet. 2:10:28 And he asked the cardiologist because we had obviously been having many conversations. 2:10:34 He asked the cardiologist if he was safe to get the second injection. 2:10:42 And we've heard from Deanna McLeod how the toxicity increases with each dose. 2:10:50 And so the cardiologist told him it was highly unlikely to be related and he's safe to get the vaccine. 2:10:57 So he got his second dose two weeks after his cardiologist appointment. 2:11:02 And we did find out after the fact that there was evidence of significant impairment in his heart function on his echocardiogram. 2:11:19 But we didn't find that out until after. Speaker 17
2:11:21 Can I just interrupt you? 2:11:24 Because we actually know he had a healthy heart before that first shot. 2:11:27 And can you share with us how we know this as a fact? Speaker 6
2:11:30 Yeah. 2:11:31 In 2019, Scott was going through some difficult life circumstances and things. 2:11:39 And he had some heart palpitations and went to the hospital. 2:11:44 He had an echocardiogram then because... 2:11:49 They wanted to make sure everything was okay. 2:11:52 And it was completely normal with a very good functioning heart with normal anatomy and no damage. 2:12:06 And it turned out to be just anxiety and stress related from his life circumstances that he was going through at that time. 2:12:14 So we bring forward to... 2:12:18 September 10th, which is today of 2021. Speaker 15
2:12:23 Sorry. 2:12:23 Scott was playing baseball. 2:12:43 He loved baseball. Speaker 6
2:12:47 to play sports and baseball. Speaker 15
2:12:50 And he was on a co-ed recreational team. 2:13:00 And his kids were with him. Speaker 6
2:13:03 Their game finished and he was getting ready to pack up. 2:13:08 The next team needed somebody to help stay in score keep. 2:13:11 So Scott being Scott, thankfully he did. 2:13:16 And he put the kids in the car and got them settled to wait until he was ready to go. 2:13:23 And he helped scorekeep at the beginning of the game, the next game. 2:13:28 And while he was sitting on the bench, the reports from the people who helped him that day said he turned gray. 2:13:41 He slumped over and he fell on the ground. 2:13:45 And he was unconscious. 2:13:48 Nobody could feel a heartbeat. 2:13:51 Someone had to run, I don't know how far, but it looked very far when I saw the field, kilometers, a kilometer, to get a defibrillator while they were doing CPR and calling 911. 2:14:09 His children are in the car. Speaker 15
2:14:13 they're watching this happen to their dad. Speaker 6
2:14:20 So he is successfully revived and has free circulation and the paramedics take him to the Ottawa Heart Institute where they found that he had very severe 2:14:42 severe myocarditis with a heart function of 10%. 2:14:48 And he was admitted to the cardiac ICU. 2:14:53 He was there for seven days. 2:14:56 He had to have a defibrillator pacemaker inserted. 2:15:03 And he 2:15:10 He did that during that hospital stay. 2:15:15 Now, that kind of injury and toxicity to biological tissue, there's permanent damage. 2:15:30 And that permanent damage wasn't made any better by the defibrillator or 2:15:37 So think about an electrical circuit. 2:15:39 The heart is an electrical unit. 2:15:43 And that there's all these breaks from scar tissue that formed from the severe inflammation, myocarditis of the muscle tissue. 2:15:56 That's the difference between pericarditis and myocarditis. 2:16:00 Pericarditis is from the outer lining of the heart. 2:16:05 Myocarditis is the heart muscle itself and the infiltration that happens in that muscle and the electrical conductivity that has to try to pass through there. Speaker 17
2:16:18 We've got some time constraints, so rather than go into medical details, can you focus on the journey? 2:16:26 Thank you. Speaker 6
2:16:27 Well, they're important because to understand what Scott went through afterwards, 2:16:33 you do need to understand the extensive damage that occurred and how that occurred and why he suffered the way he did after. 2:16:42 So after he got home, he had a boatload of new medications that he had never been on, and he had to rebuild his capacity to be able to do daily functions and things like that and care for his children. 2:17:04 He did, but he never regained any kind of normal capacity. 2:17:08 He was never able to return to normal activity fully. 2:17:13 He did try to return to work because that was a really big part of his life that he loved. 2:17:21 And he was able to for a little. 2:17:24 However, with all of the damage that did happen to his heart, he suffered many different things. 2:17:32 episodes of what's called ventricular fibrillation or ventricular tachycardia, which is just a shockable rhythm. 2:17:41 And his pacemaker and defibrillator, it would be activated. 2:17:50 He had many of these episodes where his children were present, they could hear it. 2:17:56 I want you to imagine what that would feel like inside of your chest. 2:18:00 These are the human costs of the decisions that are made. 2:18:05 And he was terrified, absolutely terrified. 2:18:09 He couldn't live a normal day without wondering if that was going to happen again. 2:18:16 And he did have a day where it went off 31 times in a row, 31 times. 2:18:26 And he was unconscious again and in hospital again. 2:18:30 And then the remainder of his heart that was still at that time preserved was no longer preserved. 2:18:42 And then he started to develop issues with 2:18:48 volume and fluid balance because as a pump that is not working anymore, his kidneys started to get congested. 2:18:57 He ended up in hospital multiple times. 2:19:00 And instead of being able to raise his children and play baseball with his son and watch his daughter's cheer, he was alone in hospital, getting poked and prodded. 2:19:13 And he was getting worse. 2:19:18 We knew he needed a heart transplant and he had been attempting to work with the Ottawa team here, but he was treated extremely disrespectfully and his condition was minimized. 2:19:40 His diagnosis, which was, he had already been approved and through the vaccine injury program. 2:19:48 It was irrefutable. 2:19:51 He met with the organ transplant team and the doctor told him that the first thing that they needed to do was revisit the diagnosis. 2:20:06 Instead of treating him for the condition that he had and the severity of the injuries, 2:20:16 and the end organ damage that was happening, she wanted to revisit the diagnosis instead of seeing him as a person. 2:20:25 So he suffered a lot of discrimination throughout his journey. 2:20:33 And a person can feel when they're cared for and when they're being judged. 2:20:40 And I think for Scott, that was one of the biggest things that 2:20:46 it was one of the hardest things, was constantly having to defend himself when he didn't do anything wrong. 2:20:55 And he's the one suffering, not the medical system, not that doctor. 2:21:05 So he was denied any kind of possibility through Ottawa. 2:21:12 for various reasons that had nothing to do with, um, his heart or whether he could receive a heart transplant. 2:21:21 It was, um, BMI and frailty and they wanted him to do things that would not have helped whatsoever. 2:21:32 And he couldn't have done anyway because he couldn't get to some of the 2:21:40 It wasn't going to change his overall condition and he needed a heart transplant. 2:21:46 So he came to Barry in May to visit us and he knew he was in big trouble. 2:21:55 He could barely walk. 2:21:59 He was having trouble breathing and he got some blood work from 2:22:05 in Ottawa before he came and he got the news that his kidneys were failing and he needed to go to the hospital. 2:22:13 He did not want to go, but he agreed to go. 2:22:18 And that was on my birthday. Speaker 15
2:22:21 So he got admitted to, got admitted to the hospital very, Speaker 6
2:22:41 where he had 22 to 24 kilos of extra fluid in his body. 2:22:52 Most of it accumulated in his abdomen, not in his lungs, fortunately. 2:22:56 But the path of least resistance is wherever that water will go and that fluid. Speaker 15
2:23:08 And he really wanted to get home Speaker 6
2:23:12 Everyone wants to focus on what the acute issue is, of course, obviously, but we also wanted at that time to pursue a heart transplant. 2:23:22 Scott needed to know if it was actually an option. 2:23:29 And we had tried to pursue the option of Toronto General. 2:23:36 as a new consult, unbiased, to see. 2:23:43 And so after a lot of advocacy and difficult conversations with the doctors and nurses, we were finally transferred. 2:23:56 Scott was in cardiogenic shock, meaning his blood pressure was 40 over 20. 2:24:03 He was on blood 2:24:06 medications just to keep him alive at that point in time. 2:24:11 The fluid was going nowhere. 2:24:13 We couldn't, the doctors couldn't get anything off of him. 2:24:18 And so we were transferred down to Toronto General, where again, the most aggressive measures that they tried were doing nothing. 2:24:29 So we got news that he needed dialysis. 2:24:34 And Scott did not want dialysis. 2:24:35 He did not want dialysis. 2:24:38 But the question was, if he gets dialysis, could he still qualify for a heart transplant? 2:24:48 And at that point in time, there had been so much damage to all of the blood vessels leading into and out of his current heart that he couldn't have received a heart anyway. 2:25:00 So at that time, he chose not to pursue dialysis. 2:25:06 dialysis, which would have only given him a little bit more time anyway. 2:25:12 And he was suffering. Speaker 15
2:25:16 He was in the hospital away from his kids with tubes everywhere, uncomfortable in a hospital bed, not surrounded by family. 2:25:38 So he made the decision to just pursue comfort care. 2:25:48 And I had the conversation with him that helped him choose that because I'm a palliative care doctor. 2:25:59 That's what I do for a living, or I did. 2:26:05 And I don't know if you can imagine 2:26:08 what that how difficult that was or what that felt like I think if there's anything that I 2:26:38 leave you with about that if we're not focusing on what's best for the human in front of you what are we doing you can have public health all you want public health is made up of individuals Speaker 17
2:27:04 Crystal, can I interrupt you? 2:27:05 It's just we're getting short on time, and I know some of the MPs want to speak. Speaker 15
2:27:08 Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 14
2:27:15 Mr. Calkins. 2:27:24 Take a minute. 2:27:26 Mr. Motz. 2:27:30 I can't. 2:27:37 Scott was a big man. 2:27:39 He made me look pretty small. Speaker 23
2:27:46 Thank you for your testimony today. 2:27:49 I couldn't help but be aggravated with Scott's experience and your experience and his family's experience. 2:28:05 From your perspective as a medical doctor, a palliative care doctor, and hearing the testimony of you and others, what would justice look like for you, Scott's family, for your family, with respect to the medical system, with respect to even government policy? Speaker 15
2:28:35 That's a great question. 2:28:39 And thank you for your comment. Speaker 6
2:28:44 Justice looks very, I mean, these aren't new things that we need to figure out. 2:28:50 What we need to do is figure out a way that we do not stray from the very principles of human decency to maintain human dignity. 2:29:05 The principles are very simple. 2:29:08 No matter what is going on in the world, I was trained as a doctor. 2:29:11 There was never a time I was trained to say, if a pandemic or an epidemic breaks out, you breach all of your fundamental principles and you follow these orders. 2:29:27 Never. 2:29:28 And nor would I. 2:29:31 Do no harm. Speaker 6
2:29:34 Not some harm, but not some harm to some people to benefit others. 2:29:39 No harm. 2:29:43 Informed consent. 2:29:46 I couldn't provide informed consent. 2:29:48 My brother didn't get informed consent. 2:29:51 How could he? 2:29:51 We didn't have enough information. 2:29:54 And when information was coming up about safety and concerns, I'm not allowed to talk about it. Speaker 15
2:30:04 Doctors like me are cut off. 2:30:11 Autonomy. Speaker 6
2:30:13 We respect every single human being's autonomy that is capable and competent to make a decision. 2:30:23 Nobody needed to make that decision for Scott. 2:30:25 Nobody needed to force anybody to take this. 2:30:28 If it was so good, trust me, 2:30:33 Humans will flock to it. 2:30:35 We know what's good for us, right? 2:30:39 And non-judgment. 2:30:43 As a doctor, I can sum up my job for you very, very easily. 2:30:50 I provide the most current and up-to-date information for whatever issue we're facing. 2:31:01 I give you all of the information. 2:31:02 You make your decision and I support your decision. 2:31:07 I do not judge you. 2:31:08 I do not tell you you made the wrong choice. 2:31:10 I do not tell you that I am going to get rid of you as a patient. 2:31:19 No threats, no coercion, no force. 2:31:23 Humans don't need that and we've lost touch with 2:31:28 The very fundamental, basic principles. Speaker 17
2:31:32 And I'm so sorry to interrupt you. 2:31:33 I just know that the MPs want to interact with you. Speaker 17
2:31:36 And we're so short on time. 2:31:37 I want them to actually. 2:31:38 So if you can. Speaker 24
2:31:39 Thank you. Speaker 17
2:31:40 Thank you. Speaker 20
2:31:43 I've got Mr. Calkins and then Mr. Dawson. 2:31:47 I think I'm ready now. 2:31:50 Thanks for being here, Kristen. Speaker 15
2:31:53 Thanks for having me. Speaker 14
2:31:56 Scott worked for me for almost a decade. Speaker 20
2:32:00 And I don't have any expert knowledge that I could impart here other than just to say he was a great friend. 2:32:10 He was fiercely loyal. Speaker 20
2:32:14 I mean fiercely. Speaker 25
2:32:15 Oh, I know. Speaker 20
2:32:17 And in that decade, he worked with me. 2:32:21 He served the people of central Alberta that I represented with grace and dignity. 2:32:27 And I'll just recount a couple of stories. 2:32:30 So while he worked for me, he also had a friend, Spencer. 2:32:33 I don't know if you know Spencer. 2:32:35 Anyway, so Scott does make Glen Motts look small and Glen Motts makes me look small and I make most people look small. 2:32:42 But Scott didn't make Spencer look small. 2:32:46 And I remember walking through the halls of this place with both of them dressed up in their black suits, white shirts, sunglasses, and ties. 2:32:53 And it was like the Red Sea parted everywhere I went. 2:32:56 Because I had the best security team I could ever want. Speaker 6
2:32:59 That's amazing. Speaker 20
2:33:00 More importantly, it was Scott's political acumen and his just sensibility. 2:33:07 He's a sensible man. Speaker 20
2:33:09 And every bit as much as he was fierce when he needed to be fierce, he is every bit what you described. 2:33:16 Loving big old teddy bear. 2:33:17 Yeah. 2:33:18 Loved sports. 2:33:20 Even though he's a large guy, he was otherwise healthy, strong, capable, and very confident in himself. 2:33:26 And there's no doubt in my mind these shots killed him. Speaker 6
2:33:32 It's already very clear. 2:33:38 It's very clear. 2:33:39 And it's irrefutable. 2:33:41 There's been about 10 different doctors that have all signed off on it. 2:33:46 And he's gone through the vaccine injury program. 2:33:49 He's been compensated to some degree. Speaker 15
2:33:58 That was, it was a toxin. Speaker 22
2:34:01 It was toxic for him. Speaker 19
2:34:07 Thanks for being here to tell Scott's story. 2:34:11 But how has it affected you in your profession? 2:34:15 Going through the process of how things played out, knowing what you know. 2:34:20 So, Speaker 6
2:34:26 I'm a lot like my brother, and I'm fierce and soft and tender. 2:34:35 But I'm not willing to stray from my moral compass. 2:34:40 And Deanna mentioned that there was a legal change and patients weren't aware. 2:34:46 Well, guess what? 2:34:47 Physicians weren't actually aware either. 2:34:49 I have never... 2:34:54 been informed that I had to switch my care from the patient in front of me to the collective. 2:35:02 And I would not do that because that's not a physician's duty. 2:35:10 So I wouldn't participate in harm. 2:35:14 And I had some confrontations and objections with my College of Physicians and Surgeons 2:35:24 And that started in 2020, well, 2021. 2:35:33 And my license was restricted. 2:35:36 I couldn't write vaccine exemptions. 2:35:43 And then it was suspended two weeks later without even finding out if I followed that. 2:35:50 And it's been suspended ever since because I've been trying to 2:35:56 so-called fight legally, this administrative giant. 2:36:03 And I've gotten nowhere with lawyers, without lawyers, and I'm still suspended. Speaker 19
2:36:11 How do we stop this? 2:36:14 And where do we go from here? Speaker 6
2:36:18 It's a really great question. 2:36:20 And I, 2:36:24 I think we need to start having some very real, raw, authentic conversations about what public protection really is and what it's not. 2:36:40 And I think people need to be held accountable for the choices that they made that harmed people. 2:36:47 disproportionately to any kind of protection that could have been gained. 2:36:53 And I think that needs to happen now is always a good time, but I mean, now and every day moving forward, because we can't change the past. 2:37:05 And I would be more than happy and willing to have conversations with administrators, with regulators, with anyone, 2:37:13 but they will not have the conversation. 2:37:15 So I don't know the process of parliament. 2:37:20 And I'm a doctor. 2:37:22 I love being a doctor. 2:37:23 I want to get back to my patients. Speaker 8
2:37:25 That would be awesome. Speaker 6
2:37:28 But I don't know all of the red tape and all the hoops. 2:37:33 And I don't play games, right? 2:37:36 I just, I'm real. 2:37:38 And real life is very different than administration. 2:37:42 of medicine and using health crises as ways to remove the rights of individual people. 2:37:51 That can't happen. 2:37:54 Individual people look around and hear the stories. 2:37:58 They're sensible. 2:38:00 Scott was sensible. 2:38:01 I'm sensible. 2:38:02 And we can have different views and opinions and perspectives, and they can all be true. 2:38:11 And nobody's harmed. 2:38:13 We have to stop harming. 2:38:15 We have to stop the harm now. Speaker 17
2:38:17 So, Crystal, I don't want to have to tell a witness that's ill and that's traveled far and that's going to be suffering. 2:38:24 They can't testify today. 2:38:25 So if you could keep your answer short, because I know the MPs need to interact with you. 2:38:29 They need some healing. Speaker 22
2:38:34 Thanks, Mike. 2:38:35 Well, a final comment for Mr. Gerson. Speaker 12
2:38:37 Yeah, well, Crystal, thanks for sharing your brother with us. 2:38:41 Many of us got to know him quite well around here. 2:38:44 Just short, if you can do it in a brief amount of time, you just talk a little bit about Scott's reaction to getting the settlement through the vaccine injury program. 2:38:56 I had a conversation with him about it. 2:38:59 He seemed somewhat relieved in the fact that 2:39:02 It was acknowledged that he was injured, but that was about the end of his relief program. Speaker 6
2:39:09 Yeah, the vaccine injury program was very difficult to navigate. 2:39:15 Frustration after frustration, he was not treated very well either during that process. 2:39:23 But I think for everybody who's had a vaccine injury, 2:39:31 The vast majority of them have been treated really unwell, poorly. 2:39:37 There's a lot of stigma now. 2:39:38 It's a stigma associated with it. 2:39:42 And so that validation gave him relief. 2:39:48 But the settlement or the reimbursement was not even close to what could cover 2:39:59 anything for him or his future, that he's not here for his children. 2:40:03 It wasn't, it was shekels for his sacrifice. 2:40:08 And I think that that was also a slap in the face. 2:40:12 So at the same time that he felt a pang of relief, he also felt, you know, the thrust of disappointment and neglect. Speaker 22
2:40:29 Thank you. 2:40:30 And thanks for the questions, Dr. 2:40:32 Crystal. 2:40:33 You and I have had lots of conversations, and I know your heart. Speaker 22
2:40:38 I know your story, and I know that Doug Shipley, which is who your brother was working for most recently, wanted to be here today. 2:40:45 He had a trip planned months and months in advance, and he sends his regret. 2:40:51 And I know that you've been talking with his office, with him. 2:40:56 So I want to thank you once again. 2:40:58 Bristol, for coming here. 2:41:01 And I think it really speaks volumes to the fact that you would come here and tell Scott's story because Scott wanted to be here himself. Speaker 6
2:41:10 He did. 2:41:11 And it's one way that we can honour Scott. Speaker 22
2:41:15 100%. 2:41:16 So thank you for being here. 2:41:17 And I know you brought your aunt today. 2:41:20 So I thank you for coming as well. 2:41:24 Thanks so much. 2:41:25 Thanks, Bristol. Speaker 17
2:41:31 So our next witness is Patricia Liddle. 2:41:35 Patricia, can you take the Bible in your right hand? 2:41:38 Patricia Liddle, do you swear? 2:41:40 Liddle. 2:41:40 Liddle. 2:41:41 I'm sorry. 2:41:41 Thank you for correcting me because names are important. Speaker 28
2:41:44 Yeah. 2:41:44 I get Liddle all the time. Speaker 17
2:41:46 Right. 2:41:47 So Patricia Liddle, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? 2:41:55 So help me God. Speaker 28
2:41:56 I do. 2:41:56 So help me God. Speaker 17
2:41:59 Um, 2:42:00 I'm going to lead you a little bit as I do most witnesses on their background. 2:42:06 But I did want to point out, you're going to talk about being injured, but you didn't have COVID until years later. 2:42:12 So this is something that happened after. 2:42:16 You are currently 64. 2:42:18 You are a former director of communications with the World Health Organization. 2:42:23 You were working for what was then their HIV department. 2:42:27 You have worked in communications for the US Agency for International Development. 2:42:33 You were an advisor for the United Nations Population Fund in New York. 2:42:38 You were curiously, you wrote the first draft. 2:42:41 So you were the writer for Infectious Disease and the Vaccine Department at the World Health Organization when they put together a World Health Organization book called The State of the World's Vaccines. 2:42:53 You wrote the first draft of that. Speaker 28
2:42:55 That's correct. Speaker 17
2:42:56 And, um, what your health before you were vaccinated. 2:43:03 So prior to your second shot, um, you had just done an extreme 26 K hike and you, you live on Vancouver Island. 2:43:11 Like it's not flat. 2:43:13 It's not flat. Speaker 28
2:43:14 It's very rooty. 2:43:15 It was, it was a pretty extreme height hike, I should say. Speaker 17
2:43:19 And you, you hiked, you cycled, you were just an extremely fit and active person. 2:43:25 Um, 2:43:27 And why did you take the vaccine? 2:43:30 You've got a lot of background in vaccines. Speaker 28
2:43:32 Yeah, at the time, I was kind of suspicious about the narrative around COVID because I was listening, as everyone else was, to the death toll being announced by CBC every day. 2:43:44 And I knew that the death rate needed to be contextualized in terms of percentage per 100,000. 2:43:51 So if you actually do the math, the death rate was very, in fact, similar to seasonal flu. 2:43:58 However, I was at that time unemployed. 2:44:01 I was between contracts and I was up for a job in Europe and I needed to get vaccinated in order to travel. 2:44:10 And I was offered the position. 2:44:11 I won't name the employer because it's not appropriate. 2:44:16 So I went ahead for the first shot and it was completely uneventful. 2:44:21 And I thought, OK, well, you know, 2:44:23 I would go in for the second shot. 2:44:25 I was also on a list because I had a pre-existing condition of high blood pressure, which is familial. 2:44:32 I received the second shot five weeks later and I went ahead and did it. 2:44:37 Even though I had some doubts, I thought maybe I'll get a sore arm, maybe I'll break out in hives. 2:44:42 You know, that's a possibility. 2:44:44 I did not expect what happened next. 2:44:49 And what happened next was about a week after the second vaccine, I got up out of bed and I collapsed. 2:44:57 And I collapsed with a racing heart. 2:45:02 I felt my face. 2:45:03 I had suddenly gotten very swollen. 2:45:05 My hands were swollen. 2:45:06 My feet were swollen. 2:45:09 Every single nerve ending in my body seemed to be shrieking with pain. 2:45:13 I had a migraine. 2:45:15 And I am not prone to migraines. 2:45:17 And it was a sunny day. 2:45:18 It was, you know, June the 17th. 2:45:21 Very warm weather at that time, just preceding the heat dome that others have mentioned. 2:45:26 And I could barely see because of the light in the room. 2:45:31 It was just scorching my retinas. 2:45:34 And I ended up crawling to the phone. 2:45:38 And I got a friend to call, take me to emergency. Speaker 17
2:45:41 So when you say you collapsed, I mean, you literally... Speaker 28
2:45:44 collapsed on the floor fell over i got out of bed and i fell over and it was my it was my tendons but it was also just this unexpected pain and which i can you know in retrospect i realized was a central nervous system neuropathic kind of pain but i had never experienced anything like it before okay so you you get to the phone i get to the phone i get a friend to 2:46:08 to take me to emergency. 2:46:10 And at that point, I hadn't quite figured out that maybe there was a relationship with the vaccine. 2:46:16 They did several tests. 2:46:17 They found out that, in fact, I had POTS, which I had never heard of before. 2:46:23 And they sent me home with some medication, some pain and medication like Tramadol. 2:46:29 And I can't remember what the other medication was. 2:46:32 It was to try and slow down my heart beating. 2:46:35 And I went home and it just continued. 2:46:39 And what followed was a series of visits to emergency wards. 2:46:46 I did, after a few days, realize that I was suffering from the effects of a vaccine because it couldn't have been anything else. 2:46:54 I had been perfectly healthy the week before. 2:46:57 I kept on being told in emergency, oh, well, you've got long COVID. 2:47:00 Well, you know, I hadn't had COVID. 2:47:02 I didn't actually get COVID until two weeks, pardon me, two years afterwards. 2:47:08 And 2:47:09 You know, just what continued was this sort of terrible cycle of going into emergency, being, you know, told that I, at one point I was told that I was suffering from some sort of mental ill health episode, even though at that point I had also swollen up. 2:47:26 So I went from being about 130 pounds within the space of two months, I had bloated up to 200 pounds. 2:47:34 I was like, I puffed up like a cane toad. Speaker 17
2:47:38 You also got boils. Speaker 28
2:47:40 I also got boils. 2:47:40 And my memory is not great at the moment. 2:47:43 It was a bit of a blur. 2:47:44 But I developed boils from neck to knees. 2:47:47 And so I was this grotesque, unrecognizable version of myself. 2:47:52 I could not walk. 2:47:53 The previous week, I had done this 26K hike up in Strathcona Park. 2:47:58 It was an extreme hike. 2:48:01 It was on the extreme scale. 2:48:03 And then a week after, I could barely walk a block without having to sit down and weep. Speaker 17
2:48:08 I want to go back to the boils because when we were having earlier discussions, when you literally described you had these for six months. Speaker 17
2:48:20 And you used the term today and you used it in an earlier interview, unrecognizable. 2:48:24 Like you would not recognize yourself because of these boils. Speaker 28
2:48:28 Well, they were from my neck to my knees. 2:48:32 So fortunately, just mostly on my torso. 2:48:34 I do have photographs. 2:48:36 I didn't really feel like sharing them, you know, in a public venue. 2:48:40 But I was recognizable in terms of, you know, how large I had gotten so quickly. 2:48:46 And I was being told that, you know, when I went into emergency yet again, I had a physician, emergency room physician surveyed the Boyles. 2:48:57 I told him what had happened and he treated me with extreme contempt. 2:49:02 and prescribed a tube of cortisone cream, which was about this big. 2:49:08 And these boils were confluent boils. 2:49:10 You know, they were substantial boils. 2:49:14 And I got a cream, you know, a prescription for cortisone cream. Speaker 17
2:49:19 Now, at that time, you had been 18 years past menopause. Speaker 28
2:49:25 At that time, it was 12 years. Speaker 17
2:49:28 So 12 years, but something happened, your period started again. Speaker 28
2:49:32 My period started, yes. Speaker 17
2:49:34 And that ran for four menstrual cycles. Speaker 28
2:49:36 Yeah, and I wouldn't really call them cycles because there was nothing particularly, they were quite random sort of bleeding. 2:49:45 And my breasts became very swollen. 2:49:47 I went up about three sizes, which has not normalized. 2:49:53 Again, another surreal encounter with a physician, a GP who specialized in women's health. 2:49:58 And I think this is really important to note because I spoke to her because I went in to get it, you know, I needed, you know, I was potentially at risk for cancer or some other complication. 2:50:12 And she said to me very airily, she said, oh, well, you know, that's happening to everyone. 2:50:18 The train has left the station on that one. 2:50:20 And this was specifically about the vaccine. 2:50:22 So this physician who specialized in women's health was telling me with apparently great unconcern that many of her patients were presenting with the same absolutely strange symptoms, which as somebody who had worked on a publication about vaccines, I had never heard about as ever, you know, being the result of any vaccine. Speaker 17
2:50:47 But you mean the... 2:50:50 postmenopausal bleeding. 2:50:51 Yes, and also the breast swelling. Speaker 28
2:50:54 And I also heard from other friends of mine that that had happened to them as well. 2:50:59 This was not an uncommon reaction. Speaker 17
2:51:03 Right. 2:51:04 You also had bilateral Achilles tendinopathy. Speaker 28
2:51:09 Yes, I've continued to deal with that. 2:51:12 It is improving. 2:51:12 I've spent a fortune on physiotherapy, prolotherapy, 2:51:17 something called PRP, hyaluronic acid injections, lumbar injections, spinal injections. 2:51:24 I work with a pain clinic in Vancouver that has been very helpful. 2:51:28 And I'm probably more mobile than I was the last time I testified. 2:51:33 So that is something. 2:51:35 But it's cost me, I figure I've spent about $250,000 trying to get well. Speaker 17
2:51:44 Right. 2:51:45 And you spoke about brain. 2:51:48 Can you describe that to us? Speaker 28
2:51:50 Yes. 2:51:52 The migraine that I mentioned earlier lasted for about a year. 2:51:56 And what I also failed to mention was that I lost my hearing on my right side. 2:52:00 So all of this occurred all at once. 2:52:03 So I woke up that morning. 2:52:04 I was deaf. 2:52:06 I couldn't walk. 2:52:07 You know, there's such a constellation of symptoms that I actually forget what happened. 2:52:12 But, you know, exhibit A, my hearing aid. 2:52:18 I'm almost completely deaf in the right ear. 2:52:21 And along with the hearing loss has come tinnitus and brain fog. 2:52:26 So my memory is very faulty. 2:52:28 I used to have a very good memory. 2:52:29 I think my friends could probably testify that I was quite smart. 2:52:37 And over the last five years, I have noticed a real deterioration in my cognitive function. Speaker 17
2:52:46 What's been the experience mentally and emotionally with what you've gone through? Speaker 28
2:52:52 Well, first of all, there's the loss of function. 2:52:56 My life has become very small and I would say quite unsatisfactory. 2:53:01 I get up in the morning, I make coffee, I go to bed, I get up, I walk the dog, I go back to bed, I get up, I do some errands, I go back to bed. 2:53:16 And this is 2:53:17 what it has been day after day you know throughout the last five years um many of my friends have chosen to back away from the friendship because they even when i became unrecognizable and i couldn't walk um they chose not to believe me so and they they you know i i also come from a journalism background so many of my associates and former colleagues 2:53:45 decided basically to disassociate with me. 2:53:48 I'd become somehow socially contaminated because I insisted that what had happened to me was a result of the vaccine reaction, which was in fact confirmed by several doctors. 2:54:01 A report was sent to Health Canada before, you know, the clamp on Dr. 2:54:11 Freedom of speech or health care freedom of speech really came down in B.C. Speaker 17
2:54:17 And just tell us about what the law in B.C. 2:54:21 is, your understanding is. Speaker 28
2:54:23 There's something called the Health Care and Occupations Act, which passed a few years ago and was operationalized in April the 1st. 2:54:31 And that basically criminalizes any physician or health care worker who speaks ill 2:54:38 It basically spreads misinformation, which is very much in the eye of the government or deemed by what the government chooses it to be. 2:54:47 And that also involves the delicensing of said health care professionals and six months potentially in jail. 2:54:56 And that is now the law in B.C. Speaker 22
2:55:02 Thank you very much for testing. 2:55:03 Any colleagues have any questions? 2:55:05 I know I have some. 2:55:07 So I just like, you know, one of the things that we hear over and over again is the additional costs in terms of trying to get help medically. 2:55:16 You mentioned a quarter of a million dollars. Speaker 28
2:55:18 I have spent a quarter million dollars. 2:55:20 What types of things? 2:55:22 I have spent it on hyperbaric oxygen therapy. 2:55:26 I have spent it primarily on physiotherapy supplements. 2:55:32 A lot of the treatments that I've received are not covered by the medical plan. 2:55:38 I do have some additional insurance, but basically I'm spending this out of my own funds. 2:55:45 Fortunately for me in my previous work, I did receive danger pay. 2:55:49 I worked in Afghanistan and a few other places, so that has represented a cushion. 2:55:54 But other people I know have not been nearly as fortunate. Speaker 22
2:56:01 Mr. Motz, and then I'll go over to Mr. Dahl. Speaker 23
2:56:04 Thank you for your testimony today, Ms. Lytle. 2:56:08 You kind of alluded to it a little bit. 2:56:10 I just want to dig a little deeper. 2:56:11 Early on, 2:56:15 Did you ever find it necessary to refrain from discussing the injuries you were experiencing and the symptoms you had for fear of repercussions, whether it be your employment? 2:56:30 You talked about you losing some friends. 2:56:33 Was that something that you experienced? Speaker 28
2:56:36 It's something I thought about because I realized I testified at the National Citizens Inquiry and I realized that I probably would never get hired again. 2:56:45 for anything, but I felt that it was very important to tell the truth, that there was too much gaslighting going on, that I myself experienced personal humiliation and considerable degradation while I sought care. 2:57:02 And I just, I think it was just pure cussedness. 2:57:05 I was not going to let this happen to me. 2:57:08 And I felt it was a responsibility to speak out, even if it meant losing friends, 2:57:14 or having to deal with the inevitable eye roll, switch the topic of conversation. 2:57:22 It just became to me very, the more that happened, the more determined I was to speak out. 2:57:29 And I understand that my injuries are not as severe as some of those that have testified at this inquiry, but I also believe that I represent a large cohort of the population who've been told that they've got long COVID, 2:57:44 or that their maladies are associated with aging or some other issue. 2:57:50 And I think there are many, many of us. Speaker 22
2:57:56 Thank you. 2:57:57 Dr. Torrey, I do thank you for that because you did mention, doctors mentioning a lot of other ladies coming up with similar symptoms and challenges, but not everyone's willing to talk about it. 2:58:09 So I guess the challenge is that people don't want to talk about it because 2:58:13 They're afraid of the reaction that people are getting. 2:58:15 You know, you're extremely articulate and knowledgeable. 2:58:19 And yet somehow when we start talking about vaccine injuries, it's like none of us that are talking to them have a brain anymore, right? 2:58:26 We're not allowed to talk about this stuff. 2:58:27 And it blows me away. 2:58:30 someone as articulate and someone has got the great CV like you, involved with the WHO, that you would have anyone that would challenge what you have to say. Speaker 28
2:58:41 Well, thank you. 2:58:42 That's very kind of you. 2:58:43 But there's been a mass abrogation of critical thinking, to say the least. 2:58:49 And I find it fascinating that I am somebody who worked for four decades in human rights, specifically women's rights, 2:58:57 People that I had known for decades suddenly lumped me or defined me as some sort of right wing nut because I have a vaccine injury and I'm vocal about it. 2:59:10 And I think it just speaks to the sort of dystopian kind of environment that we've moved into that people are so willing, you know, that it takes so little to divide us. 2:59:21 You know, entire families were divided, communities were divided, people just 2:59:27 allowed fear to determine reality. 2:59:33 And I'm just very grateful for this opportunity to speak here. 2:59:37 And even though I must say the last five years have been extremely isolating and, you know, my faith in human nature was somewhat shaky to begin with. 2:59:46 It's kind of destroyed now, but I am meeting some of the best people I've ever met throughout these last five years. 2:59:52 So there has been a silver lining. Speaker 22
2:59:57 Thank you. 2:59:58 We appreciate your sharing. 2:59:59 Mr. Dole, this is the last. Speaker 9
3:00:02 Thank you, Patricia, for your courage and for standing up and sharing your story. 3:00:08 I'm a member of Parliament from British Columbia and so very much aware of what is happening provincially as well as nationally in this. 3:00:18 But I am just that you can just talk a bit more about your work 3:00:25 and with who, I believe with vaccines too. 3:00:27 I'm not sure if you had some papers on that and what's happened to you. 3:00:31 Was it in sync with your research or was it just a... Speaker 28
3:00:35 It was, quite honestly, it was just a contract. 3:00:38 It was, I mean, I worked at WHO for quite a few years, but initially I started off doing contract work. 3:00:44 And between that, you know, work in, you know, the human security report and then work for the United Nations Population Fund, then back to WHO, 3:00:54 But vis-a-vis the book that I, the first draft that I wrote on the vaccines was called the State of the World's Vaccines. 3:01:01 It was in 2002. 3:01:04 And even then, as I was writing the book, I was writing a section on the coronavirus and how there could never be a vaccine that would be effective against a coronavirus because it mutates too quickly. 3:01:17 And so I was very surprised when 3:01:21 suddenly there's a vaccine for a coronavirus and most vaccines take typically between seven to 15 years to come to market. 3:01:29 This one, you know, came within six months, you know, involving a novel coronavirus, a novel mRNA platform. 3:01:39 And then on top of this, this virus that presumably mutates too quickly for a vaccine to be effective. 3:01:47 But I myself, like many others, trotted down and dutifully put out our arms. 3:01:52 And, you know, here we are. Speaker 22
3:01:56 Thanks, Mark. 3:01:56 That's all the time we have. 3:01:57 Appreciate it. 3:01:58 Patricia, thank you so much. Speaker 28
3:02:00 Thank you for this opportunity. 3:02:01 Thanks. Speaker 17
3:02:05 So our next witness is Dawood Al-Janabi. 3:02:09 Dawood, I'm going to put you under oath. 3:02:12 Do you promise to tell the truth? 3:02:17 You don't have to swear in the Bible because you said you wanted to affirm, so I'm going to have you here. 3:02:22 Okay, if you want to swear. 3:02:22 So, David L. Janaby, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so I hope you got it. 3:02:31 Yeah, I swear. 3:02:34 You're another one of these witnesses that never had COVID. 3:02:36 I'm just going to introduce you to the inquiry. 3:02:40 You're 34 years old. 3:02:42 You were a full-time student taking software engineering at York University. 3:02:48 At the time of the vaccination, you were 29 years old. 3:02:52 You went to the gym four days a week back then. Speaker 11
3:02:56 Three times, four times a week, yeah. Speaker 17
3:02:58 Yeah, and you liked to go to concerts. 3:03:00 You were on no medications. 3:03:01 You were on no dietary restrictions. 3:03:03 You were basically a healthy 29-year-old man who was very into the gym. 3:03:10 Yeah. 3:03:11 But that changed. 3:03:12 Can you share with us your experience with the vaccines and your health journey? Speaker 11
3:03:16 You know, pretty much I got disabled, but it all started the same night when I got the first shot. 3:03:23 It was a Moderna vaccine. 3:03:25 And I woke up, like something in my back, like the whole vertebral column is like fire, pain. 3:03:33 You know, tried to go to sleep. 3:03:35 I couldn't, you know. 3:03:37 The next day, the same sensation didn't go away. 3:03:42 you know, the tiredness and the feeling of, you know, when you get any kind of a vaccine, you'll be tired. 3:03:51 Like, they consider this as the normal kind of side effect of any, you know, vaccination. 3:03:57 So I asked my mom. 3:04:00 She took me to the vaccination center, if I remember correctly. 3:04:07 I was really tired, you know, so I was trying to get someone from like, what am I supposed to do in here? 3:04:12 Like we, something abnormal. Speaker 17
3:04:14 So can I just slow you down? 3:04:16 Because when you say you're tired, that it's got to be something pretty significant for you to go to a clinic. Speaker 11
3:04:22 It's at the point where you cannot even walk, you know, like something significant. 3:04:26 So I went to the vaccination center. 3:04:28 Again, I want to slow you down. Speaker 17
3:04:30 So you're describing it as tiredness, but you're not able to walk? 3:04:34 You can hardly walk. Speaker 11
3:04:36 Well, here's the thing. 3:04:37 It's a whole package of symptoms that comes together. 3:04:45 At the beginning, I also had a little bit of pain. 3:04:48 I was told that it was the vaccination reaction at the beginning. 3:04:55 It's just like, yeah, two days and it's going to go away. 3:04:58 Don't worry. 3:04:58 Go home. 3:04:59 And if you need anything, you could reach out to Humber River. 3:05:03 They have online clinics. 3:05:05 So you could log in and just have a chat with a doctor. 3:05:11 So five days later, you know, the symptoms are getting worse and worse. 3:05:16 The pain is getting worse. 3:05:19 Nothing got resolved so far. Speaker 17
3:05:22 And I was mainly in bed. 3:05:24 And I'm just going to slow you down because I think you're understating based on what we spoke about before. 3:05:31 You told me. 3:05:33 that second or third day, the nerve pain was over your entire body. 3:05:37 Yes, it started. 3:05:38 It was electrical shocks, and you used the word torture. 3:05:42 Oh, yes. 3:05:43 So help us understand, like, what this experience was like. 3:05:49 I'm just, yeah, because here's the thing. Speaker 11
3:05:50 How do I say this? 3:05:54 I'm not sure if you ever had a root canal. 3:05:57 things like this start to kind of, you know, with the tiredness, with the, with the, with the, all the muscle ache that came out, like, I mean, the third, fourth, fifth day start to get worse, you know, the nerve pain start to get a little bit kind of, you know, more noticeable as well. 3:06:14 So what happened, I still, you know, I still remember, like, I was unable to sleep, like, to the point you cannot sleep, you cannot move out of the bed, you know, and 3:06:27 And it deteriorated in a way, like, you know, the second week I had to go to the emergency, you know. 3:06:36 We went to the emergency. 3:06:38 As soon as I told them I'm having something wrong, like, you know, I'm having pain after vaccination, they kept me there almost like for 12 to 13 hours. 3:06:51 At the end, it's like, you know, I'm just going to go home. 3:06:54 Whatever happens, happens. 3:06:56 because I cannot sit on the chair, you know, like there's no bed and they put you like this and you're dealing with some sort of a pain that even, you know, it make you muscle contract. 3:07:10 Like you having kind of some sort of spasms, something very hard to describe, you know, if I'm going to describe it, it's like you grew up 50 years 3:07:24 in like a couple of days. 3:07:26 You don't have the same body. 3:07:28 All the joints are, you know, pain. 3:07:32 You can't sleep. 3:07:33 You barely can think, you know. 3:07:37 You can't move that much. 3:07:38 Every movement, if I want to move my hand this way, I just like pick, you know, anything. 3:07:44 Pain, pure pain. 3:07:45 So I had to go back, you know, home, called the family doctor. 3:07:50 I was like, I don't want to bring his name, you know. 3:07:53 He's an amazing person. 3:07:55 Um, but, uh, I called him, uh, he prescribed me some blood tests. 3:08:00 We did a test. 3:08:01 Everything's came normal, you know? 3:08:04 So he's like, okay, maybe, you know, some people are kind of, you know, having a reaction for a week or two, maybe as a prolonged reaction, just wait and we will see what happens after. 3:08:19 Two weeks later, I think the symptoms are getting worse up to the point where like, you know, um, 3:08:26 you start questioning your quality of life, like the headache, the, you can't, I don't know, if you ask me, you want to be in this situation, or you probably, you have a choice to die, I was like, yeah, peacefully die. 3:08:39 I don't want to be in that. 3:08:41 So after that, you know, start to notice, like, 3:08:48 Focal pain, aside from these, you know, electrical shocks that comes and go and also the burning, some sort of a burning pain in the abdomen with some chest pain. 3:09:00 When I speak to my family, they're like, yeah, that's not normal. 3:09:06 You know, we're doing the blood test. 3:09:08 I don't see anything. 3:09:09 But then, you know, I saw like a bump appeared in my hand. 3:09:16 Something like, you know. 3:09:17 And before that thing appeared, I was feeling some focal pain, like something major happening in this spot. 3:09:24 So I asked to see the family doctor again, you know. 3:09:29 He looked at it, you know. 3:09:30 He asked for ultrasound. 3:09:32 We did the ultrasound. 3:09:34 They said it's a, at the beginning, they thought it's a cyst maybe or a cystic mass or something. 3:09:40 Don't worry about it. 3:09:41 Go home. 3:09:42 You know, pretty much it was a full-time disability. 3:09:46 you know, and torture. Speaker 17
3:09:47 So I'm going to just, just focus us a little bit. Speaker 17
3:09:52 And even today, like, so you've got, you've got to be careful of triggers or you get this nerve pain over your whole body. 3:10:02 And it can be like, as you described torture today, you have to avoid carbohydrates. 3:10:08 You have to avoid cold weather. 3:10:10 Welcome to Canada. 3:10:12 Lack of sleep and stress. 3:10:14 So, 3:10:15 Likely even coming here today is going to be a trigger for you by the end of the day. Speaker 11
3:10:19 I do have it today. 3:10:20 That's why you see even, and by the way, even affect the way you talk. 3:10:24 Like, you know, you can't remember words. 3:10:27 You cannot make sentences. 3:10:28 So you feel like, even when I talk, it's like there's all the time. 3:10:34 Now, it's a little bit better, but it used to be a severe, a very severe version. 3:10:39 Like when I used to be in university, like in my first year, I 3:10:44 I cannot do presentations, no matter what, you know? 3:10:49 So nobody knows what it is. 3:10:54 At that time, no diagnosis, you know? 3:10:57 But the interesting thing was like that mass here, it's like the same pain I start to feel right beside it, you know? 3:11:06 And then I went to the family doctor asking him like, hey, I feel something in my hand in here, 3:11:14 Something major happening at this spot. 3:11:18 He's like, I don't know, let's do another ultrasound. Speaker 17
3:11:21 We do the ultrasound, clear. 3:11:23 So I'm just going to focus you because I want to get to a video that you sent me. 3:11:27 Yes. 3:11:28 But I just want to make clear, like still to this day, you've got this. 3:11:32 Oh, yes. 3:11:34 And the fatigue you've got today, the exhaustion. Speaker 11
3:11:36 It's the same. Speaker 17
3:11:38 You really... Speaker 11
3:11:39 You can't walk a block. 3:11:40 You'd be in pain for days. 3:11:42 If I do any physical activity, somehow it triggers a punishment, you know, like for the next three or four days. 3:11:52 You cannot have much of physical activity as much as walking, you know, because for some reason it triggers a pain. 3:12:04 Right. 3:12:05 It triggers a very bad kind of a pain where you cannot even sleep. 3:12:09 You cannot, you know, function in any way or matter. 3:12:15 You can't study. 3:12:15 You can't do anything. 3:12:16 You will be just sitting, waiting for this thing to go. Speaker 17
3:12:21 And another thing that happened is you get these involuntary tremors. 3:12:24 They start to shake and you couldn't talk. 3:12:27 Yes. 3:12:28 And this went on for at least three and a half years. 3:12:31 Yes. 3:12:32 And now, so we're going to play a video that you sent me of you. 3:12:36 So you're in the hospital. 3:12:39 And you're having one of these involuntary shaking episodes. 3:12:43 And David, can we play this video twice? 3:12:46 Because it's not a long video. 3:12:49 But that was a mild one. 3:12:51 This is like a very friendly version of it. 3:12:54 Okay, so when we're watching this, we need to understand we're watching a mild, friendly, shaking episode. 3:13:02 David, can we play that? Speaker 14
3:13:05 Deep breath. Speaker 17
3:13:12 And I imagine when your muscles are contracting without control, that they get very sore. Speaker 14
3:13:20 Okay. 3:13:20 Okay. Speaker 17
3:13:38 We'll just play that again because it's short and I got more out of it watching it twice. Speaker 23
3:13:55 All right. 3:13:56 You're welcome. Speaker 17
3:14:14 And so that's a mild version, and this would be going on for three and a half years over your entire body. 3:14:20 The entire body. 3:14:22 And zero control over any of this. Speaker 11
3:14:26 No. 3:14:29 I also remember, you know, like at the beginning, like to take a five-step stairs, you cannot do that. 3:14:36 I have to, like by four, by hands and 3:14:40 My legs, like, you know, you have to crawl. 3:14:42 Like, you can't do this. 3:14:44 I reached some points where my brother and my father had to take me to the washroom. 3:14:48 I cannot even go, you know. 3:14:50 So, like, it has, like, kind of a nature of episodic where there's some period where you cannot do anything, you know. 3:15:00 And then some period you have, you know, kind of, I wouldn't say normal. 3:15:05 It's not normal. 3:15:06 But, you know, something that you could tolerate where you could sleep. 3:15:10 You know, but yeah, never, never, never, you know, never, like the pain never go. 3:15:16 This, the shaking thing, the tremors went away. 3:15:19 So I'm very, you know, happy about it. 3:15:23 I think I was lucky. 3:15:26 But then the masses start to appear, and not only the masses. 3:15:30 So when I went to try to check for the second spot in here, it showed nothing. 3:15:36 Another time, on the other hand, I start to feel another, like the same sort of pain in this hand. 3:15:42 So the family doctor was just, okay, well, I don't know what to do. 3:15:46 Let's do another ultrasound. 3:15:48 We do the ultrasound. 3:15:49 We discover that there is a mass in this hand. 3:15:52 And the spot that I was pointing to previously has a small mass as well. 3:15:58 There is a mass on the other hand here. 3:16:00 You know, and they describe them as cystic masses or, you know, something benign. 3:16:05 Don't worry about it. 3:16:06 Leave it. 3:16:07 But the big one, the first one that appeared, it kind of showed some sort of, at the beginning, they said some, they couldn't recognize what it is, but some pieces of stuff inside it, but you shouldn't be worried about it. 3:16:25 And then another mass appeared in the same hand, which is like, I have like six of them right now. 3:16:31 But within that process as well, I realized, let's say, 3:16:36 just trying to take a shower, I can't stand on my feet, so I was also checking on the sole of my feet, like there's something wrong, I can't stand, what it is too painful. 3:16:50 But the ultrasound, the first time it was normal, the second time it shows something called plantar fasciitis, showed it only in one foot, and then the other one followed as well. Speaker 17
3:17:02 And I'm just going to focus you because we have strict time limits today and I want the MPs to have an opportunity to ask me questions. 3:17:08 But you basically can't live on your own anymore. 3:17:11 So you live with your parents, right? Speaker 17
3:17:15 So, you know, you're basically a young man that now cannot live independently because of what's happening. Speaker 11
3:17:23 Not only that, let's say even when I'm going to graduate as an engineer, I don't think that I will be employable. 3:17:31 You know, which company? 3:17:32 will accept an engineer that, okay, yeah, you're a software engineer. 3:17:37 Basically, your brain is the main, you know, kind of functioning part in your whole career. 3:17:43 So if that thing can go off in a certain period of time, who's going to hire you? 3:17:49 You know, and it wasn't only that. 3:17:52 Also, like, I used to get rashes that come and go. 3:17:57 The only difficulty with knowing what was that is that they come, 3:18:02 and they go in the same day. 3:18:05 So by the time the doctor tried to take a biopsy, or like he tried to arrange for a biopsy, the thing disappeared. 3:18:13 And you don't even know what it is. 3:18:16 At the same time, all my face, you know, all the gray hair, I lost hair. 3:18:22 So you ask me for a post picture, this is the post thing. 3:18:27 You know, they do blood tests, it comes normal. 3:18:33 Nobody knows what it is. Speaker 17
3:18:36 At the beginning, I wasn't aware about the heart issues because the severity of the pain and fatigue was- And I just, I'm gonna ask you just to reign her in just because I wanna give, we wanna give others opportunity to ask you questions. Speaker 22
3:18:49 And they're gonna ask more questions. 3:18:51 I got Mr. Dawson on the list. Speaker 19
3:18:54 Thank you for being here today. 3:18:55 You're welcome. 3:18:57 Your doctors, have they talked about any of those vaccines? 3:19:00 Have you talked to them? 3:19:01 Have they said yes or no? Speaker 11
3:19:04 In the first year, you know, everyone was afraid actually to diagnose you with anything. 3:19:08 In fact, my family doctor did his best in order to send me to a specialist, but nobody, as soon as they see the, you know, because I see a thing on the transplant, nobody wants to see you. 3:19:20 So it took almost like 10 or 11 months to be able to see a neurologist. 3:19:26 Nobody wants to see you. 3:19:27 And the AFEI report, 3:19:31 It doesn't, like, if you want to report, let's say, a disability, they have it labeled as permanent disability. 3:19:38 So I think they fixed it a year later. 3:19:42 But in the report there, they have permanent disability. 3:19:46 And they cannot, as a physician, they cannot report a permanent disability unless your symptoms last more than a year. 3:19:54 So technically, the government doesn't know that we exist, doesn't have the data about us. 3:20:01 you know, and they don't even follow up. 3:20:04 Like even when he reported the symptoms in the written part, I never got a phone call from, you know, public health or anybody to say, hey, did you get any, was there any changes in your situation? 3:20:18 Did this develop into a disability? 3:20:22 Was it resolved? 3:20:23 Because they have a check on the same report shows like, you know, if it's not resolved, the doctor will say the symptoms are not resolved. 3:20:35 I believe my family doctor did that, but nobody, like five years, nothing happened. 3:20:41 I reach out to them, never get a response. 3:20:44 Reach out to Moderna, nothing from their side. 3:20:48 You call them, nobody picks up the phone. Speaker 12
3:20:56 Have you applied to the vaccine injury program? 3:21:00 Yes. 3:21:01 And what's your experience been with that? Speaker 11
3:21:04 That was a scam. 3:21:06 You know, I believe this is what, from my experience with it, it was designed just to give you a false hope. 3:21:13 So you don't, you don't talk, you know, you always be like, okay. 3:21:18 Because I reached out to the MP at that time and she was a minister. 3:21:21 She was, her name was Yara Sack, you know. 3:21:25 She reached out to the federal minister of health. 3:21:28 Like they know about me. 3:21:29 It's not that they don't know, but they cannot do anything. 3:21:31 And at some point, even the staff in the office told me it's political. 3:21:36 I think can be done. 3:21:38 But yeah, we did that vaccine injury support program. 3:21:42 You should apply. 3:21:42 I applied. 3:21:43 I actually waited for almost like a year. 3:21:49 I was lucky to get a very nice lawyer as well to help me out through the process. 3:21:55 They rejected the case saying that the situation, 3:22:01 that represent fibromyalgia. 3:22:03 And they had like three physicians who assist my case. 3:22:09 So, you know, Daniel tried to appeal. 3:22:14 They did not allow the appeal. 3:22:16 They refused. 3:22:18 And they, like a year later, somehow he managed to let them accept the appeal. 3:22:24 So we were about like, yeah, okay, now we could request the documents. 3:22:29 from and see what they were working on actually. 3:22:32 So we could submit an appeal for it. 3:22:36 They send us the documents through the mail. 3:22:39 And I was surprised that some of the documents that was sent to them was not my documents. 3:22:46 It was my father's document. 3:22:49 So they had the cardiologist at that time to assist my case, but I, 3:22:56 I wasn't even aware that I have cardio, you know, like I wasn't even aware about the blood pressure situation goes up and down or my heart rate goes to 180 and sometimes goes like 240, you know. 3:23:09 I wasn't like, you know, the pain and fatigue was so severe that I was in bed. 3:23:14 So I wasn't aware about how the heart feels because I was basically waiting. 3:23:21 Maybe I'll die or something happen to me. 3:23:22 I'm not sure, but like I was in bed most of the time. 3:23:25 So when we discovered that they were assessing my father's documents, you know, and they had a cardiologist in the case, I was like, okay, at that time, I didn't have any cardiologist appointments. 3:23:40 Like, so how come did you guys, like, you know, hire a cardiologist for it? 3:23:49 You don't get an answer. 3:23:50 They start to respond back once every four months, quarterly. Speaker 22
3:23:55 I want to ask one more question. 3:23:58 Okay. 3:23:58 We're almost out of time. 3:23:59 All right. 3:24:00 So, VISP rejected your claim. 3:24:02 Is that correct? 3:24:03 Yes. 3:24:04 However, you were also one of the first people to be recognized under the Ontario Disability. Speaker 11
3:24:09 I believe I was the first one. Speaker 22
3:24:10 First one. 3:24:11 Yeah. 3:24:12 And the reason was what? 3:24:13 Post-COVID vaccination syndrome. 3:24:15 So, think about that. 3:24:17 BISP rejected your program, but you were the first person to be recognized under the OSTP. 3:24:24 Was it OSTP? 3:24:25 OSTP. 3:24:26 Yeah. Speaker 22
3:24:27 And they took me off of it. Speaker 11
3:24:29 Oh, my goodness. 3:24:31 And we had to fight back again. 3:24:35 But here's the thing. 3:24:36 We appealed with BISP eight or seven months later. 3:24:42 We saw the lawyer start reaching out to them like, hey, we sent you the studies. 3:24:46 There is a situation like that. 3:24:48 It's not fibromyalgia. 3:24:49 People are experiencing this kind of symptoms. 3:24:52 And it's a major disability. 3:24:55 You can't do anything in your life. 3:24:58 We need an answer. 3:24:58 Where are you? 3:25:00 Oh, oops, the case manager changed. Speaker 11
3:25:04 You know, that's the classical move. 3:25:07 Exactly. 3:25:08 The case manager changed, so now there's a new one. 3:25:11 The new one came after, you know, and we had to wait, like, for four months. 3:25:16 And he came to us and saying, yeah, we were reviewing the documents, but we just realized that the forms were – 3:25:28 you know, you have to sign a form for the lawyer to represent you. Speaker 11
3:25:32 So we have, we just, we don't, I mean, he was fighting with them with the government for almost a year and a half. 3:25:39 Darwin, I hate to cut you off. Speaker 22
3:25:41 You know. 3:25:42 You were getting the runner, you were saying you've got the runaround even from ODSP. 3:25:46 So, listen, I want to thank you for coming. 3:25:49 Your story is very good. 3:25:50 You know, and to my colleagues, we see someone at the end of the table that looks perfectly, he showed up, you're sitting down, he looks normal. 3:25:56 And the challenge is, 3:25:58 your life have been almost insurmountable in terms of health and that's that's that's that that's an issue that we have to address right it's like you know you're living in the 90 years old body you can't do much thank you so much thank you so much but by the way so nothing happened with the appeal and and we've got a we're out of time for you so that's that was the thing so we'll move on to our Speaker 17
3:26:22 And we'd love to give witnesses all day, and we realize that we're cutting people short. 3:26:27 We just made a decision. 3:26:29 We could have a few witnesses speak for long periods of time, or we could give more people a voice, but the trade-off is they have less time. 3:26:38 So we hope everyone respects that. 3:26:40 So we're going to move on to Ken Drysdale as our next witness. 3:26:44 And, Ken, I did not make a note as to whether or not you're okay swearing, or do you want to affirm? 3:26:49 I want to swear on the Bible. 3:26:50 Okay, so if we can... 3:26:52 Get Ken the Bible, put that in your right hand. 3:26:55 Ken Drysdale, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 3:27:03 I do. 3:27:04 I'm going to introduce you to the inquiry. 3:27:09 Mr. Drysdale is a professional engineer, entrepreneur, author, and civic leader with more than four decades of experience in engineering, business leadership, 3:27:19 and public advocacy. 3:27:21 He's a graduate from the University of Manitoba with a Bachelor of Science in Civil Engineering Structural. 3:27:27 He founded and served as president of Accutech Engineering, a nationally recognized firm specializing in Arctic development and complex engineering projects. 3:27:38 Over the course of his career, he's led major engineering initiatives across North America and internationally, and has served as an expert investigator 3:27:48 and witness in numerous structural and forensic engineering cases. 3:27:52 From February 2023 through April 2025, Mr. Drysdale served as chairman of the Independent Commissioners of the National Citizens Inquiry. 3:28:08 In this role, he helped lead national hearings held across Canada and was a principal author 3:28:15 of the inquiries commissioner's reports examining the government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic, synthesizing testimony from hundreds of witnesses and thousands of pages of evidence into comprehensive investigative reports. 3:28:31 Mr. Drysdale, can you start by describing for us what the heck is or was the National Citizens Inquiry? 3:28:41 Because there'll be a number of people that have no idea. 3:28:45 of what the National Citizens Inquiry was? Speaker 10
3:28:49 The National Citizens Inquiry, and a lot of people just talk about it as the NCI, but the National Citizens Inquiry was a citizens-led, citizens-funded, non-judicial investigation into what happened, what was the government's response and efficacy of what they did throughout the COVID years. 3:29:10 That was kind of our assignment, and that's pretty broad. 3:29:13 You know, that's very different than the assignment we have here. Speaker 17
3:29:16 And can I just step in and just share some with the panel? 3:29:21 So there's a website, National Citizens Archive, that has all of the videos. 3:29:27 And I think people would just be shocked that it looks much like what we're doing here today. 3:29:33 Witnesses were sworn in under oath. 3:29:35 They were all examined by lawyers. 3:29:37 And the commissioners were completely independent of administration, which is unusual. 3:29:42 So it wasn't a group just, oh, well, let's call witnesses. 3:29:46 And the commissioners were tasked with just relying on the evidence. 3:29:52 Administration could have nothing to do with them other than responding to their requests for administrative purposes. 3:30:02 And they were tasked then, based on the evidence, 3:30:06 to basically make positive recommendations on how things could be done differently. 3:30:14 So just for example, you know, Irvin's student who worked in the Privy Council office in Canada and Australia became an expert on the effects on children and education at the end of the pandemic. 3:30:28 And he testified and pointed out that, well, every province we shut down the school system, nobody made sure old kids came back. 3:30:36 And a large number of children never came back. 3:30:39 And he testified about the effects of that. 3:30:40 So one of the recommendations is if you ever shut down the schools again, but please don't, maybe you should track and make sure the kids come back. 3:30:49 So it wasn't axe grinding in any way. 3:30:54 And in every province, all the health officials and health ministers were invited. 3:30:58 And when they were in Ottawa, the federal health minister and officials were invited. 3:31:04 But there was no subpoena power. 3:31:07 So, and I'm sorry, I just interrupted you. 3:31:09 Can you share from the commissioner's perspective what the heck this was like? 3:31:13 And then I've got a more emotional question for you. Speaker 10
3:31:17 Well, it was really interesting. 3:31:18 Also, I want to point out that the commissioners were selected across the country and they were selected from different disciplines. 3:31:27 So we had a lawyer, we had a doctor, a PhD, and we had a 3:31:35 a somebody in the humanities with a master's degree in humanities, and they were selected from Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba and Alberta. 3:31:44 So it was across the country representation. 3:31:46 It was multidisciplinary representation. 3:31:50 And what we did was it was really interesting. 3:31:53 We held we held 3:31:58 three days of hearings initially in eight cities across the country, starting in Truro, Nova Scotia, and we went across the country and then we came back and finished in Ottawa. 3:32:07 And then we held, a year later, we held three days of additional hearings in Regina, Saskatchewan. 3:32:13 We heard from 333 individual witnesses. 3:32:20 And I think it's important to this hearing today 3:32:24 that we didn't go seeking witnesses with just vaccine injuries. 3:32:29 Of course, that's the mandate here. 3:32:31 But we had 22.5% of all of our 333 witnesses either testified about vaccine injuries that happened to them, their loved ones, or they were doctors or medical professionals who were testifying under oath about what had happened or what they observed to their patients. 3:32:50 So that was a significant portion of it. 3:32:52 I think that's about 75 different testimonies contained within the NCI, which would be very relevant to what happened here. Speaker 17
3:33:00 Right, but the mandate was larger, so it was all government action. 3:33:04 So education, economic effects, Speaker 10
3:33:08 Social effects, how the churches were affected, how the children were affected. 3:33:13 We looked at the finances of our country because we doubled our national debt plus or minus during this whole COVID thing. 3:33:20 We looked into regulations as to how the vaccines were authorized for use. 3:33:28 We heard from everyone. 3:33:29 We heard from doctors. 3:33:30 We heard from lawyers. 3:33:31 We heard from mechanics, people who drove a courier, people who were grandfather, grandparents to young people. 3:33:39 So we've got a real cross section of Canadians there. 3:33:44 And when their experiences were significant, they were, you know, sitting here in this chair for the last three days, there was a lot of deja vu as to what we went through and what we heard. 3:33:57 And again, it was different for us because we were talking about everything. 3:34:03 And the commissioners didn't know who the witnesses were. 3:34:08 So when we came into a room, and I want to remind you, it was a different time now, too. 3:34:14 People were terrified. 3:34:17 People were terrified to come out and talk. 3:34:20 The venues were terrified. 3:34:22 I often say, you know, we started in Truro, Nova Scotia. 3:34:28 But people say, well, why did you start in Halifax? 3:34:31 We couldn't get a venue in Halifax. 3:34:33 They wouldn't rent us a room. 3:34:36 And then we were in, I can't remember the name of the place in Toronto, but I wouldn't go back there. 3:34:41 Nobody would rent us in Toronto. 3:34:42 We weren't in Montreal because we couldn't get a meeting room in Montreal. 3:34:48 We went to Quebec City. 3:34:50 Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, they canceled the meeting room for us a week or a few days before. 3:34:57 And we met at another interesting place. 3:35:00 So very different. 3:35:02 And we had witnesses dropping out. 3:35:04 I remember in Saskatoon, you know, because the commissioners were independent, we didn't know what was going on in the background. 3:35:11 And I remember we filed into the room, much like you guys do here. 3:35:14 And we sat down and the four commissioners were talking to each other. 3:35:18 And what we didn't know was that the witnesses that morning all quit because they were terrified. 3:35:25 They were terrified about what you're still hearing today, but on steroids, so to speak. 3:35:30 You know, you still hear people, they say that they're injured and people start to feel sorry for them or start to start to empathize with them until it turns out it's a vaccine injury. 3:35:41 And then it's something you did wrong or you're crazy. 3:35:45 Imagine that what was going on in people's minds in April and March and May of twenty twenty three. Speaker 17
3:35:54 Remember, the bank accounts had been frozen recently. 3:35:56 So we had, we were only, people were thinking they were only locked down solely because of what the trucker convoy had basically caused the government to pause. 3:36:07 But bank accounts had been frozen. 3:36:08 People were worried about losing their job. 3:36:11 And so they back out. 3:36:12 People were, curiously, more people dropped out because of family pressure. 3:36:17 So we've had that here, Mr. Drysdale. 3:36:20 where witnesses have dropped out because of family pressure. 3:36:23 So one witness we had selected, we'd scheduled them, and then we get a call, my daughter-in-law's made it clear I will never see my grandchildren again if I testify at the Allison Inquiry. 3:36:34 And National Citizen's Inquiry, that was all the time. 3:36:38 And we had another witness drop out who had also been scheduled, got through the vetting process saying, 3:36:47 you want me to testify about my mother that died, but my other sibling died, and the only one I have left is my brother, and he's made it clear that he'll have nothing to do with me, but I need his support because I'm injured. 3:36:57 And so she dropped out. 3:36:59 So that's the type of thing you're sharing. Speaker 10
3:37:01 Yeah, and there was more. 3:37:04 I can't remember the name of the witness in Saskatoon. 3:37:08 He started to testify, and in the middle of his testimony, he started to cry uncontrollably. 3:37:14 And what he said was, 3:37:16 He thought he was crazy. 3:37:18 He thought he was alone. 3:37:20 He thought he'd done something wrong. 3:37:23 And this was the first time he felt safe on a national basis to be able to, or in any basis for that matter, to describe what had happened to him and where it came from and how he felt about that. Speaker 17
3:37:37 To Saskatoon, do you remember the name of the witness that... 3:37:41 I'll call her a little old lady and know that she'll be mad if she's watching. 3:37:45 So she's at the oncologist's office and she's basically just told she has terminal breast cancer. 3:37:52 And she's describing how, well, she can't receive the information. 3:37:58 She just needs to find a quiet place to basically melt mentally. 3:38:03 So she goes into a coffee shop, but she doesn't have a mask. 3:38:06 Well, she's got COPD and she's got a doctor's letter saying she can't wear a mask. 3:38:10 but they're confronting her and won't let her in. 3:38:13 And then somehow that gets to, was it a radio journalist? 3:38:17 Some big journalist in Saskatoon who on Facebook does a big hate on on her. 3:38:22 So she wakes up with the entire city hating on her when all she was trying to do was find a quiet place and medical excuse not to wear a mask to basically decompress with the knowledge that she's dying of cancer. Speaker 10
3:38:37 And she wasn't the only one. 3:38:38 If you remember the 3:38:40 fellow in um truro who testified he had a heart condition or copd as well and he had a doctor's note and he went to a certain store to return something do you remember this and the manager came out and tackled him and started to beat him up and then the and he's suing them i don't know how that lawsuit's gone it's been a few years and then the rcmp came and arrested him and it was all on videotape what had happened you know he tried to tell them he was a elderly man and um 3:39:09 We heard those kinds of stories over and over and over again. 3:39:14 So the folks, you know, one of the key themes that came out of that was that folks had been terrorized by the media, and then government intervention amplified that and sunk at home, you know, when the police showed up at your home. 3:39:30 Or there was a certain instance, I think it was in Manitoba, where they had the... 3:39:36 What was it called? 3:39:37 The Diplomat Program or something. Speaker 17
3:39:39 Oh, yeah. 3:39:40 So to encourage people to snitch on their neighbors. 3:39:44 You were an ambassador, weren't you? 3:39:45 An ambassador. 3:39:46 To be an ambassador to basically complain on your neighbors. 3:39:49 It was very Orwellian. 3:39:52 It was terrible. 3:39:53 And I think it was Manitoba. 3:39:54 So the liquor stores are open, but the AA meetings are closed. Speaker 10
3:39:58 And, you know, it was so... People were so convinced it was the right thing. 3:40:02 I remember having a discussion, and I won't say who because... 3:40:06 That person was near and dear to me, and it wasn't my wife, by the way. 3:40:11 But I started to talk to them about how the churches were closed and the liquor stores were open. 3:40:16 And this person was telling me how that was so appropriate because there was people that needed their liquor. 3:40:23 I'm not making that up. 3:40:24 And this is an extremely intelligent, well-educated person who I respect. 3:40:29 But that's how effective the propaganda campaign was. 3:40:35 This fear, this terror, it turned neighbor against neighbor, husband against wife, children against parents. 3:40:42 We took elderly people and we locked them up and let them rot. 3:40:46 And we had witnesses about that. 3:40:48 We had several witnesses about this. 3:40:50 In fact, one was in Regina, I believe it was, and she had been working in an elderly person's housing unit. 3:40:58 She had 30 patients. 3:40:59 And she described how before the vaccines and before the lockdowns, because we weren't just concentrating on vaccines, she was telling us about her patients. 3:41:10 And she said the deterioration that happened after the imposition of 3:41:16 All of the mandates, people wanted to die. 3:41:18 They were rotting. 3:41:20 And I said to her, I questioned her, and I said, so when you saw this incredible change with your people, and at the end of your shift, you went to talk to the doctor, the attending physician, and say what you saw, she looked at me like that was crazy. 3:41:37 She said, attending physician? 3:41:40 I said, oh, certainly. 3:41:41 They must have had a doctor come in to see how things were going. 3:41:44 She said, never saw them. 3:41:45 Then I said, well, surely since the province of Saskatchewan implemented these measures, when the regulator came in to check on the condition of these people, you know, these people who built our country and paid taxes all their lives, who are locked up in rooms, surely when the regulator came in and asked you and you told them what you saw, what did the regulator say? 3:42:08 And she said to me, there was no regulators. 3:42:12 There was no visits by the province. 3:42:14 There were no doctors to talk to. 3:42:16 They were just locking them up. 3:42:19 And I personally know one who was in there who had Alzheimer's and lived through the war and was in tears all the time wondering what he had done. 3:42:36 And they couldn't care less. Speaker 17
3:42:40 Now, Mr. Drysdale, 3:42:42 Just to drive home, so the import, so it was a different time. 3:42:46 So the country had been locked down for two years and then it's starting in February running because there were eight cities. 3:42:53 It was weekly or biweekly for about two and a half months. 3:42:57 It probably is still not recovered. 3:43:00 But what the NCI did was it documented a snapshot in time. 3:43:04 We did. 3:43:05 So when people were terrified, when it was fresh, when they were still worried about losing their jobs, 3:43:12 They testified and it's videoed and it's under oath. 3:43:16 And it's much like these proceedings. 3:43:19 But that could never be recaptured. 3:43:20 If those witnesses testified today, it would be different testimony. 3:43:25 And the vaccine injuries have clearly changed. 3:43:30 Clearly changed. 3:43:30 You've been sitting here for these proceedings. 3:43:32 It's very different, the injuries today. 3:43:36 So where do people find the National Citizens Inquiry 3:43:42 videos and the like, just because it is another resource that ties very well into what this inquiry is doing. Speaker 10
3:43:50 Well, you're absolutely right. 3:43:52 You know, we prepared thousands of hours of video. 3:43:56 Every witness was videotaped. 3:43:59 We prepared transcripts, thousands and thousands of pages of transcripts. 3:44:04 And we prepared these incredible reports. 3:44:07 We prepared three reports concerning COVID. 3:44:10 The first one was in September of 2023, and it was in response to the government deciding they were going to start vaccinating children as young as six months old. 3:44:23 The second report was issued on November 28th, 2023, 5,280 pages. 3:44:29 And then the third report, the Regina supplemental report, was just under 1,000 pages. 3:44:34 As an engineer, it wouldn't bother me to sit down and say I'm going to read a 5,000-page book, but I discovered that most Canadians don't do that. 3:44:43 So we had this incredible, ginormous library of information. 3:44:48 And so what we just finished doing is we created what we've called the National Citizens Archive.ca. 3:44:56 And we've taken all of that, the video, the transcripts, 3:45:01 the exhibits, the entire reports. 3:45:07 And we've put it into a system that is completely searchable and it's searchable and friendly enough for a small child to use all the way up to a serious academic researcher to use. 3:45:21 So you can go in there and it's split up into different sections and you can search by any keyword you want. 3:45:30 And it'll go through, it'll tell you what video it was on, where it was, here, click on this button, here's the video. 3:45:35 You can search the transcripts and it's all in one spot. 3:45:40 And, you know, we even thought of this. 3:45:42 Let's say you go in there and you're intimidated by this whole thing. 3:45:45 What will I search for? 3:45:48 Believe it or not, we've helped you with that too. 3:45:49 You can push a button and it'll give you 12 categories of different areas that you might want to search under. 3:45:55 And it gives you over 6,000 terms. 3:45:58 So if you were interested in vaccine injuries, there's a category for that. 3:46:02 You push the button and then it gives you several hundred different keywords you can just pick from, push the button, and it searches that entire archive for you. 3:46:10 Transcripts, videos, reports, and it'll take you right down to where that piece is. 3:46:15 So this is an incredible... 3:46:18 research tool, not just for people in universities or lawyers or something, but ordinary citizens can get in there. 3:46:28 And if they're curious about something, anything, any type of a term, they can put it in this thing and it will draw all of that information. 3:46:37 So it allows people other than perhaps elderly engineers, an opportunity to actually have a tool that can use to explore this incredible, 3:46:49 repository of information. Speaker 17
3:46:52 Can I ask you about how the report's organized too? 3:46:56 Because when you hear like 6,000 pages and that, I'm sorry, I'm a lawyer and I'm not going to read that, but it was actually, everything was made into bite-sized pieces on topics. 3:47:06 So can you just share about that? Speaker 10
3:47:08 Absolutely. 3:47:09 So we'll talk about the main report, which was over 5,000 pages. 3:47:14 But what we did was, Chris, this was before we started thinking about 3:47:19 creating an archive a searchable archive but what we did was a table of contents of that report is like 25 pages long and if you're dealing with the the electronic version of it it's all in categories for instance civil law freedom of speech media vaccines medical it was all split up into a whole bunch of different chapters and that was even 3:47:44 broken down again. 3:47:45 So you can just simply go to the table of contents if you're using the PDF, and you can find the topic you want and push the button and it'll take you to the section. 3:47:53 And we did, in that kind of a format, we tried to make it as usable as possible. 3:48:01 So we split out the discussion from the recommendations. 3:48:06 And that particular report made over 300 recommendations across pretty much every kind of topic area you can think of. 3:48:14 So even when we created the report in the book, we made it interactive so that it would allow folks to be able to explore. 3:48:21 But the National Citizens Archive is the next step. 3:48:25 It's an order of magnitude step beyond that. Speaker 17
3:48:28 So we're going to actually hand out paper copies of that report. 3:48:32 You brought them to be handed out to the MPs that are present. 3:48:36 But I will advise everyone in the audience and those watching that 3:48:41 Eventually, bearing in mind that we're volunteers that are assisting Chairperson Allison to put this on, eventually there'll be hopefully witness pages with the video of their testimony. 3:48:54 And we've entered as an exhibit the full NCI report and transcripts in electronic format. 3:49:02 But Mr. Drysdale has brought for the MPs that are present today, 3:49:08 isn't the whole report, but it's part of it. 3:49:11 But I want to pull up the slide because I had a question for you. 3:49:14 You talked about an interim report and this is very germane. 3:49:18 So this interim report is September 14th, 2023. 3:49:25 I actually think I could be wrong. 3:49:27 I thought it was a week before Health Canada approved the vaccine for kids, but maybe it's a week after. 3:49:33 No, it was two days. 3:49:35 Two days. 3:49:35 Two days after. 3:49:37 But you had already you guys had already written this interim report. 3:49:40 And I just want you to speak to you guys had four recommendations in an interim report released September 14th, 2023. 3:49:49 And the first one is newly implemented revisions to the food and drug regulations related to the authorization of COVID-19 vaccines must be rescinded as they permanently exempt COVID-19 vaccines from the requirement. 3:50:03 to objectively prove the safety and efficacy as required under the food and drug regulations. 3:50:08 Why was that unimportant? Speaker 10
3:50:11 Well, the significant thing that happened and it was, you know, I'll keep that to myself. 3:50:19 What they did was they went into the food and drug regulations and before COVID, the food and drug regulations 3:50:28 I would describe as having an objective text as to whether a drug is safe and effective. 3:50:34 And it was on the manufacturers to prove that it was safe and effective, objectively. 3:50:41 They changed the regulation and they essentially turned it into a subjective review. 3:50:46 And what's the difference? 3:50:48 An objective example might be two plus two equals four. 3:50:52 That's objective. 3:50:53 Two plus two equals four. 3:50:54 A subjective will be, 3:50:56 What do you feel about 2 plus 2 equals 4? 3:51:00 So they changed it from objective to subjective. 3:51:03 So the new regulation only required the manufacturers to submit enough information that would allow the Minister of Health to decide that it was safe, but not proved. 3:51:16 And if there was information missing, it would allow the manufacturer to submit that later. 3:51:24 They didn't have to prove safety and efficacy. 3:51:27 And the other thing that this did is it created a huge, in my opinion, conflict of interest. 3:51:34 Because the government then on this basis started to import in all millions and millions and millions of dollars of this drug that wasn't approved. 3:51:46 Okay, so think about that. 3:51:48 The government spent millions and millions of dollars on a drug that wasn't approved, and they're expected to approve it later. 3:51:56 You think if something goes wrong, they're going to be able to say, well, I'm sorry, we spent all this money and we shouldn't have. 3:52:03 So this is a little bit of a preamble to this. 3:52:06 So during this emergency authorization, they changed that. 3:52:12 They also forced... 3:52:14 the minister to accept the application as long as it would be reasonable to conclude that it was safety and effective. 3:52:23 So it didn't say the minister may accept, it said must accept. 3:52:29 And the last little part of that was it also removed the ability of the minister for a period of one year from rescinding the authorization. 3:52:38 So the minister's hands were tied first by 3:52:43 the, in my opinion, conflict of interest. 3:52:46 Second, by this must approve if he could reasonably make the assumption or reasonably come to the conclusion it was safe. 3:52:55 And then the third would be because of, I just lost my train of thought, I'm sorry. Speaker 17
3:53:00 Well, no, that's fine. 3:53:02 And we're, you know, we've got to wrap it up for time reasons. 3:53:05 But the interesting thing is, is at the time, the four commissioners at the National Citizens Inquiry 3:53:12 had heard more witnesses under oath than any other people in the world. 3:53:16 That's correct. 3:53:17 And then had been tasked with coming up with positive recommendations. 3:53:22 But you guys felt compelled in September 2023, before the full report, to at least say, wait a second, we should put the brakes on this until safety and efficacy is proven. 3:53:33 And obviously, we're out of any crisis in 2023. Speaker 17
3:53:37 So why not require proof of safety and efficacy? Speaker 10
3:53:40 Absolutely. 3:53:40 And why... 3:53:42 weld this into the permanent regulation after the emergency had passed. 3:53:48 It just didn't make any sense. 3:53:49 And again, considering this was now going to go into children as young as six months old when there was pretty much a 0% risk to these children of the vaccine. Speaker 14
3:54:01 Thank you. Speaker 22
3:54:05 Any questions at all from my colleagues? Speaker 22
3:54:10 Mr. Geisel, thank you for being here, and thank you for that update and letting Canadians know of an additional resource that they have available to them. 3:54:18 We appreciate you being here. Speaker 10
3:54:19 Thank you. 3:54:19 Appreciate being here. Speaker 17
3:54:31 Our next witness is Stephanie Guir. 3:54:34 I'm sorry, I just pronounced that wrong, didn't I? Speaker 17
3:54:38 Giguere. 3:54:39 I'm not doing very well today, Stephanie. Speaker 14
3:54:42 Stephanie, will you take the Bible in your right hand? Speaker 17
3:54:49 Stephanie Giger, do you promise or swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? 3:54:56 I do. 3:54:59 I'd like to introduce you to the inquiry. 3:55:04 In our previous interview, you made it clear that you've never had COVID. Speaker 17
3:55:08 And you were 46 years old. 3:55:12 I was 40 at the time. 3:55:14 Right, but today you're 46. Speaker 4
3:55:15 Oh, apologies. Speaker 17
3:55:17 Yeah, no worries. 3:55:19 You're 46. 3:55:19 You've got two children. 3:55:21 You were a psychotherapist for the region's health authority, Interior Health in British Columbia. 3:55:29 You have a Bachelor of Arts in Psychiatry, a Master's in Counseling Psychology. 3:55:36 You were volunteering with a couple of churches. 3:55:38 You were hiking, swimming, gardening, foraging, as you described it. 3:55:42 You smile about that. 3:55:45 And you had no health conditions. 3:55:46 You were on no medications. 3:55:48 You were in good health and fully functional prior to the vaccine. Speaker 5
3:55:55 My bachelor's in psychology and behavioral science, not psychiatry. Speaker 17
3:55:59 Thank you for correcting me on that. Speaker 5
3:56:01 You were right on the age. 3:56:03 And I'm right on the bachelorette. Speaker 17
3:56:07 Can you share with us your journey? Speaker 5
3:56:12 I knew you were going to ask this question and my journey probably takes seven days to describe. 3:56:18 There's many facets to what happened to me. 3:56:21 I mean, medical, psychological, social, political. 3:56:28 I'm thinking you're asking about my patient journey. Speaker 17
3:56:32 I'm asking you about your vaccine journey because you only had one shot Speaker 17
3:56:37 And that was Moderna on January 21st, 2021. 3:56:44 And you had an immediate reaction. Speaker 17
3:56:47 And so I'm wanting you to start there. 3:56:49 Okay. Speaker 5
3:56:53 Well, I was exposed to the product, as Deanna McLeod explained this morning. 3:57:02 I'm going to try to stick with that. 3:57:03 I was exposed to the mRNA product. 3:57:06 on that day around 1130 and nothing happened immediately. 3:57:12 However, after I came back from lunch, about 90 minutes later, I noticed that my hands were going numb 3:57:22 And I was typing actually a report for a lawyer's office at the time, and I can type like the way I used to. 3:57:31 And at that point, my hands, right up to my elbows, really started feeling numb. 3:57:38 I described to my husband, my hands felt like dough. 3:57:43 Like they were completely useless. 3:57:46 And at that point, I believe my executive functioning had started declining also because I was quite disoriented. 3:57:56 And I can speak to the... 3:57:59 Clinically, we speak of judgment, and my judgment was way off. 3:58:04 I'm at a point where I'm trying to finish my report with my elbows because sending this is more important than whatever is happening to me at the moment. 3:58:12 So immediate neurological harm happened to me. Speaker 17
3:58:20 Even driving home was a lack of judgment. 3:58:22 Can you describe how you drove home because you've lost ability of your... Speaker 5
3:58:27 Instead of going to the hospital, I drove home with my wrist, you know, put it into gear like that, went home. 3:58:35 Yeah, I was scared. 3:58:38 And from there, the headache started. 3:58:41 I had the worst headache of my life. 3:58:45 It was pain in my brain. 3:58:46 And there's a difference between pain in your brain. 3:58:50 and a headache. 3:58:51 There was pressure in my head that lasted for 23 days. 3:58:56 And I can describe this simply maybe by saying that I remember being like sitting in the car as a passenger from then on and looking at these concrete stairs just outside the car. 3:59:11 And I thought if I could just bang my head hard enough on these concrete stairs, maybe I could break my skull. 3:59:18 And maybe my brain would be okay. 3:59:20 This is how painful this was. 3:59:24 And I could hear inside my skull, it was like, it was like pop rocks. 3:59:29 It was crackling. 3:59:32 In there. 3:59:33 And it just kept going day and night. 3:59:36 And my entire body was in horrible pain. 3:59:40 And then my heart rate very soon started like, 3:59:45 Out of nowhere, going up, you know, the 130 resting heart rate, 160 resting heart rate. 3:59:54 So just a great deal of pain and multi-system turmoil. 4:00:01 And then I started losing my words. 4:00:04 And I am a woman of words. 4:00:06 I have made an entire career out of words. 4:00:10 Careful words, some of them elaborate. 4:00:12 And so to start slurring and stuttering and having no capacity to find words to produce any coherent sentences, whether in my head or through my mouth, and then losing my motor control. 4:00:31 I mean, this was the most scary experience of my life. 4:00:36 It was the most painful experience of my life. 4:00:41 And there's more. 4:00:42 I started having weakness in my legs. 4:00:45 I started falling to the ground. 4:00:48 I started having problems with proprioception where I didn't know where my body was. 4:00:52 I couldn't do this. 4:00:55 You know, bring a glass to my mouth. 4:00:56 I dumped a liquid on my lap. 4:00:58 I'd poke myself in the face with my forks. 4:01:01 I lost a lot of weight just because I couldn't eat properly to feed myself. 4:01:09 So there was just a lot that was happening, just a lot. Speaker 17
4:01:20 You had said to me in an interview, when you're describing this as you're starting to run into walls, you've developed a lump in your throat, your speech is becoming difficult, you can no longer think straight. 4:01:34 And then you said to me, 4:01:37 my fear and pain had reached a level that I could no longer rationalize or push through. 4:01:44 And can you explain what you meant by that? Speaker 5
4:01:49 Well, I kept trying to go to work that first week. 4:01:52 I mean, I slept 16-hour nights, 20-hour nights the first week or so, maybe 10 days. 4:01:59 And then on the Monday, I'm like, ah, I got to go to work. 4:02:02 I couldn't dress myself because I had too much pain in my arm. 4:02:06 So my husband dresses me and then he drives me to work because my clients are more important than my health at this point. 4:02:13 Or, you know, they're telling us, don't come to the hospital. 4:02:16 All this is normal. 4:02:17 I'm like, I'm pooping my pants. 4:02:19 Is this normal? 4:02:20 Doctor, by the way, said, you're 40, Stephanie, you know. 4:02:25 So for all of you who are turning 40 this year, sorry. 4:02:28 Doctor said you might start pooping your pants. 4:02:31 Just so we're clear. Speaker 17
4:02:33 Well, let's just stop there because that's shocking. 4:02:36 So what's the exact context? 4:02:39 Because obviously it's a case of gaslighting. Speaker 5
4:02:43 Oh, I thought you were asking about the context. 4:02:45 I was going to say if you miss the door entry too long and you run into the door jam too long, you may poop your pants if you have to go, if you need seven tries to get in there. Speaker 17
4:02:56 No, no. 4:02:57 I just mean the doctor saying this to you. 4:02:58 So do you recall the context of that? Speaker 5
4:03:02 Well. 4:03:02 And I love her. 4:03:03 She's been my doctor for a long time. 4:03:05 She no longer has the medical clinic in my town. 4:03:10 The context of this was that she actually did not see me for two and a half years in person. 4:03:20 So we had phone calls. 4:03:22 She recommended that I drink a lot of water and sleep a lot. 4:03:26 And I said, is 20 hours a night enough, you know? 4:03:29 And she said, you know, you've worked hard during the pandemic. 4:03:33 And she diagnosed me with a mental disorder. 4:03:38 She diagnosed me with adjustment disorder, with a mixed anxiety and depressed mood. 4:03:48 Because Mr. Buckley, it was all in my head. Speaker 17
4:03:58 We've heard that a lot, and not having experienced it, you don't know. 4:04:03 You can't have the feeling, but as best you can. 4:04:10 How do you react to that emotionally and mentally when you're suffering terribly, and you know the doctor's just gaslighting you by saying that? Speaker 5
4:04:24 You stop having any kind of trust in the medical system, and you turn to alternative systems. Speaker 14
4:04:34 Which you did do. Speaker 5
4:04:36 I did, yeah. Speaker 17
4:04:37 Can you share about that? Speaker 5
4:04:38 Well, so the ER doctor, the medical doctor... 4:04:46 told me to wait until I had an appointment with my GP, which was three weeks later. 4:04:52 If I had a client who presented the way I presented, I would have waited until they were airlifted to St. Paul or VGH or maybe Foothills. 4:05:02 He told me to go home, wait for three weeks. 4:05:05 In the meantime, my husband was able to secure an emergency appointment with a naturopathic doctor of great repute in the next town. 4:05:14 And he saw me almost immediately. 4:05:16 And he initiated a protocol at the time. 4:05:21 There was no available protocols that we know of. 4:05:25 So he did his best and he put me back on my feet. Speaker 17
4:05:31 I just want to, I think it's important to stay here for a minute. 4:05:35 So the medical system was offering you no hope at all, and you turned to a naturopathic doctor. 4:05:43 And you found that that journey was helpful for you. Speaker 5
4:05:47 Absolutely. Speaker 17
4:05:48 And you understand now that, you know, there are protocols. 4:05:52 There has been research into vaccine injury. Speaker 17
4:05:56 And there's things to do. 4:05:58 I had asked you during an interview, what was the most difficult part of this? 4:06:05 And it was one of the earlier interviews. 4:06:08 I hadn't learned that I should expect this answer because I'm expecting it to be the suffering and all of that. 4:06:15 That's not how you answered it. 4:06:16 Can you share with us what the most difficult parts for you were? Speaker 5
4:06:20 I don't recall how I answered it. Speaker 17
4:06:22 You actually said it was the gaslighting and the online hate, and the pool lady. Speaker 5
4:06:29 Well, I mean, there's been interesting debate around whether Justin Trudeau said it or not, but I am a native French speaker, and he did call us extremists, racists, and misogynist people who did not believe in science. 4:06:45 And I want to say for context that having had only one dose of 4:06:50 I was considered unvaccinated, right? 4:06:53 I did not receive any exemption. 4:06:54 BC does not give exemptions. 4:06:56 As far as I know, they give six-month deferrals that have to be renewed every time. 4:07:02 And so to become an unvaccinated, to become a hated person in my own country, to be told by all kinds of people that I don't understand the scientific method, that I'm anti-science, 4:07:18 That I'm misogynistic and racist and a whack job and a little tinfoil hat person was extremely offensive to me. 4:07:30 And many apologies are owed to us, all of us, the vaccine injured, the unvaccinated. 4:07:36 I am disgusted by what happened. 4:07:39 People killed themselves. 4:07:40 We had suicide on our hands. 4:07:42 People accepted maids. 4:07:44 because they were coerced into it and the public cheered to see us die. Speaker 17
4:07:52 We've got people from around the world watching, so I'm just going to give them some context when you're saying racist and misogynist. 4:07:58 So just for the rest of the world, Canadians know this, but our Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, was on a Quebec television show and he's talking about the unvaccinated. 4:08:12 And I think he asks the question, the rhetorical question, how long are we going to tolerate them? 4:08:20 And as we know from MLA Ontario, MLA Hillier, he was asking why the federal government was building detention camps across Canada. 4:08:30 And so we know we're building detention camps. 4:08:32 And our prime minister on television is saying, how long are we going to tolerate 4:08:39 them, the unvaccinated, and that's the show where he called the unvaccinated racists and misogynists. 4:08:47 So for the rest of the world, just imagine your leader, while the government is building detention camps, on national television asking, how long are we going to tolerate them, meaning the unvaccinated? 4:09:02 Stephanie in the province where I was, Alberta, 4:09:05 the opposition leader, Rachel Notley, was calling for the army to go door to door to identify the unvaccinated. 4:09:15 And when I would lecture in Alberta after things calmed down and you could actually have public gatherings, I would sometimes ask the audience, well, put up your hand if during the dark days of COVID, you honestly believe that the army would be going door to door 4:09:35 dragging unvaccinated people out of their homes and forcefully vaccinating them. 4:09:41 And sometimes almost every arm goes out. 4:09:44 Now, how does the population in Alberta heal from that? 4:09:49 I don't know the answer, but it's just, this is what you're talking about. Speaker 5
4:09:53 And these are the dreams that I still suffer from. 4:09:57 These are the dreams that I've had. 4:09:59 People coming, throwing me on the bus, sending me to the camp. Speaker 17
4:10:04 Can you tell us about those dreams in a little more detail? Speaker 5
4:10:09 You know, people in uniform kicking in my door, coming to drag me out of bed, maybe by my hair, maybe giving me another brain injury by roughing me up, pushing me on a bus, taking me God knows where, to do to me God knows what. 4:10:31 I wake up in tears. 4:10:33 I wake up in panic. 4:10:35 I haven't slept well in all these years. 4:10:40 I have been surrounded by enemies. 4:10:43 I have been identified as an enemy of the state. 4:10:46 Trudeau didn't just call us misogynist and racist. 4:10:48 He said we are extremists. Speaker 15
4:10:51 He said we're dangerous. 4:10:57 So I don't know. Speaker 5
4:10:58 I don't know what else to tell you about this. 4:11:01 Terrible, terrible post-traumatic symptoms that I'm living with every day. 4:11:06 Every day. 4:11:08 How do you live in a society that has done this to you? 4:11:12 Where the media has been complicit with this? 4:11:15 When the government lied to your face? 4:11:19 Where your MP's office and your MLA's office hung up on you? 4:11:24 How are secretaries enabled to decide what's important for the country, what is of national interest? 4:11:30 It's rhetorical. 4:11:31 They're not. 4:11:33 They shouldn't be. 4:11:34 It's disgusting what happened to us. Speaker 17
4:11:40 Aside from the government, there was also citizens. 4:11:43 You spoke to me about online hatred. Speaker 5
4:11:48 Well, the group we don't talk about, we had the vaccinated and the unvaccinated, the pro-vax and the pro-choice. 4:11:56 There's a third group. 4:11:57 There's a third group of us that 4:11:59 was wanted dead by everybody. 4:12:02 I believe Carol Lavoine said this morning, you know, the vaccinated told us, oh, you're dangerous. 4:12:07 You know, it's not true. 4:12:09 You're a liar. 4:12:10 Someone vaccinated told us, ah, you were dumb enough to take it. 4:12:13 Just go die. 4:12:14 So there's a lot of that. 4:12:16 There's a lot of that. 4:12:17 Not a lot of empathy, not a lot of kindness, not a lot of real respect or any consideration for evidence for that matter. 4:12:24 No considerations. 4:12:26 So online was cruel, but I decided to keep speaking because we have to tell the truth. 4:12:33 We have to prevent other people from being hurt. 4:12:39 We need to study people like me. 4:12:42 When my workers' comp claim was denied... 4:12:47 I was told there was no data. 4:12:48 Ironically, when I was able to start reading again, I started devouring neurological journals and I started reviewing cases that resembled mine. 4:12:58 And I excluded strokes because there was thousands of those and I needed a team for strokes. 4:13:03 So I left stroke alone and it was pretty simple. 4:13:05 I looked at things that were more differently complex. 4:13:10 And I came up with 404 references of, you know, peer review, blah, blah, blah, real journals. 4:13:17 And I put together a bibliography. 4:13:19 I did the literature review. 4:13:21 And I sent it to Workers' Comp, which is WorkSafeBC. 4:13:25 And a fine assistant put my bibliography on top of everything. 4:13:31 And then she slid in the doctor, oh, Charlene Kotze. 4:13:36 I'll tell you about her later. 4:13:38 who said there is no data to support, you know, there is no data. 4:13:43 I'm like, I am the data. 4:13:45 Charlene was my medical reviewer, and she had countless posts, and I got screenshots of her wishing death on the unvaccinated, calling them all COVID idiots, and also mocking the vaccine injured. 4:14:01 So this is the person who decided to deny my claim. 4:14:05 It's just shocking. 4:14:07 Shame on her. Speaker 17
4:14:10 I think we're learning at this inquiry that nothing is shocking. Speaker 22
4:14:15 Thank you, Stephanie. 4:14:16 Thank you very much for being here. 4:14:17 We do appreciate your time. 4:14:19 I know we have a couple of questions and we're running close to time. 4:14:22 Mr. Dawson, turn over to you, sir. Speaker 19
4:14:24 Thank you. 4:14:26 You said you're a sociologist. 4:14:29 I'm a psychotherapist. 4:14:30 Psychotherapist. 4:14:31 How do you think 4:14:34 that the COVID and the vaccines and the way people were treated affected people socially, mentally. 4:14:42 I wanted to ask Mr. Drysdale, but we ran out of time. 4:14:46 But I'll ask you, how do you think it affected people socially and mentally when we lock seniors up, we don't allow people to go out in public, we don't allow our kids to go to school? 4:14:57 How do you think that affected people across Canada? Speaker 5
4:15:00 I believe that it has caused unspeakable and unforgivable harm, and I hope to see accountability. Speaker 19
4:15:07 Thank you. Speaker 22
4:15:10 Thank you for being here. Speaker 9
4:15:15 Mr. Holden, and then Mr. Motz after Mr. Holden. Speaker 5
4:15:20 Thank you very much, Stephanie, for your testimony. 4:15:22 It's very courageous. Speaker 9
4:15:25 How about right now? 4:15:25 I mean, obviously it was very... 4:15:28 intense and difficult for years. 4:15:31 Are things getting better as far as engagement in the community? 4:15:38 Do you find more support now? 4:15:39 How are things now as opposed to a few years ago? 4:15:43 Specifically now, or do you still think it's very difficult still? Speaker 5
4:15:47 My current doctor is a lot more supportive. 4:15:49 I mean, my initial doctor was very supportive with my mental disorder. 4:15:58 I think people are opening up. 4:15:59 I think people are gently and cautiously starting to feel more shame for the way they have been when they look back. 4:16:09 And I think there's a little bit more openness and curiosity. 4:16:13 So I applaud that. 4:16:17 And I would welcome apologies over time. 4:16:21 Thank you. Speaker 22
4:16:23 Mr. Motz and then Mr. Goggins. Speaker 23
4:16:27 Thank you very much for your testimony. 4:16:31 To Mr. Dawson's question, you indicated that you hope, and I'm just paraphrasing, that those responsible are held accountable. 4:16:40 What does that accountability look like for you? Speaker 5
4:16:45 I would like the justice system to do its job and to actually look at the harm that was done and not give free passes to people because of their authority or positions, connection or wealth. 4:17:00 I would like the justice system to do its job. Speaker 23
4:17:03 What about the medical profession? 4:17:05 What about the medical system? 4:17:06 What's your thoughts on that? Speaker 5
4:17:08 I think the doctors were also concerned. 4:17:10 Victims of a terror campaign. 4:17:12 I think they were held at the throat. 4:17:15 And I think actually my doctor did the best she could. 4:17:18 I received long-term disability because of my mental disorder. 4:17:25 And so I think she actually served me quite well. 4:17:27 She might have known that the medical system might not have done me any good. 4:17:31 And she knew that I was seeking help elsewhere. Speaker 20
4:17:34 Thank you. 4:17:36 And finally, Mr. Proffitts. 4:17:38 Thank you, Madam Giguere, for your testimony. 4:17:41 I can sense your frustration. Speaker 30
4:17:42 Thank you. Speaker 20
4:17:44 And I've been an MP for a long time, and I remember those years. 4:17:49 They were the worst, worst years, I think, for many people. 4:17:54 It was an awful time. 4:17:56 It's an absolutely awful time. 4:18:01 But I'm frustrated because I don't think 4:18:07 we've properly, and I appreciate this inquiry, I don't think we've properly acknowledged the harm that was also done to many people like yourselves. 4:18:22 And, you know, we had a strange time. 4:18:26 We had a government that signed indemnity agreements with vaccine companies or, you know, drug companies. 4:18:34 We've never seen a 4:18:37 those details. 4:18:39 The government then absorbs the responsibility and has its vaccine injury program, which by all accounts is being administered by people who are frankly should have never been associated with the program to begin with. 4:18:53 I'm just trying to be politically correct. 4:18:57 And there's a whole bunch of people here and many, many more who I think have been affected without even knowing 4:19:07 Of course. 4:19:09 I can list many family, friends, and acquaintances that I have. 4:19:12 I know many, many people. 4:19:15 And there was a lot of people that had illnesses and ailments during COVID after the vaccines that never even thought to question whether or not the vaccines might have been the cause of it. 4:19:27 And I don't think there has been a sense of justice about any of these things at all. 4:19:34 the fact that people willingly were coerced into receiving the vaccine or taking the vaccine. 4:19:42 What more needs to be done in order to make people like yourselves feel whole? 4:19:47 What more could be done to make you feel? 4:19:50 I mean, there's justice, but there's also feeling whole from this. 4:19:55 What could and should the government be doing to make people feel whole as a result of what they've endured? Speaker 5
4:20:06 Would you like a nice answer or my real answer, Mr. Calkins? Speaker 15
4:20:13 I have no faith in human government. 4:20:18 My hope comes from Jesus Christ. Speaker 5
4:20:22 And I would like to recite a verse if we have time. 4:20:27 It is in Revelation 21, 4. 4:20:31 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. 4:20:36 There shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. 4:20:43 There shall be no more pain for the things of the past, for the former things have passed away. 4:20:52 I do not believe government can make me whole again. 4:20:58 Thank you. Speaker 22
4:21:00 And Stephanie, thank you for being here. 4:21:02 Thank you for taking the time and 4:21:04 I'm guessing this is your daughter here next to you. 4:21:08 Thank you so much as well for your coming as well. 4:21:10 We're now going to break for lunch and we're running a little bit behind, which is fine. 4:21:14 So we're going to extend lunch a little bit to 1.20, come back. 4:21:20 In the meantime, we're going to have Teresa Buckley reading out some of the names. 4:21:25 We had over 1,400 people apply to be here and unfortunately not all could make it. 4:21:31 So 4:21:32 Over the next couple of days for lunches, Teresa is going to be reading some of the names of the people that are applied to be here, just as a sign of respect. 4:21:42 So for those in the room, you're welcome to stay. 4:21:45 You're welcome to go. 4:21:45 I would just keep the noise level down until she's had a chance to do some of that. Speaker 30
4:21:58 Caitlin McLaughlin. 4:22:01 Jackie Linden. 4:22:04 Michelle Goetti. 4:22:08 Michael McDonald. 4:22:10 Sarah. 4:22:12 Kara Young. 4:22:15 Brandis Ash Campbell. 4:22:19 Kurt Domenex. 4:22:21 Amanda Strusiski. 4:22:25 Laurie June Penner. 4:22:28 Maria Daisy Mondart. 4:22:31 Paul Quinnell. 4:22:34 Genevieve Lejeune. 4:22:37 Ciara Zuncuski. 4:22:40 Gregory Cook. 4:22:43 Brian Wills. 4:22:46 Katie McKenna Grieve. 4:22:50 Nick Roberts. 4:22:52 Baker. 4:22:54 Cindy Gubtil. 4:22:57 Maria Gnistic-Mizera. 4:23:00 Andre Komotis. 4:23:02 Natalie Merkley. 4:23:05 Callie Jensen. 4:23:08 Kelly Shorkey. 4:23:10 Laurie and Dawn Bolin. 4:23:14 Maria Volgaris. 4:23:16 Margaret Schuller. 4:23:18 Marie Helgenson. 4:23:21 Alan Hooper. 4:23:23 Lisa Watson. 4:23:26 Derek Golub. 4:23:28 Karen Field. 4:23:30 Douglas Bennett. 4:23:34 Manuel Gonzalez. 4:23:36 Michelle Bremner. 4:23:40 Lindsay McKay. 4:23:42 Devin McDonald. 4:23:45 Sharon LaRock. 4:23:48 Tony G. Webster. 4:23:51 Jason Edgert. 4:23:54 Carolyn Zachreski. 4:23:57 Frances Cartier. 4:24:00 Laurie Rubaliak. 4:24:02 John Gallant. 4:24:05 Ellen Brophy. 4:24:07 Jill O'Brien. 4:24:10 Jennifer Thompson. 4:24:12 Shirley Whitlake. 4:24:15 Frances Rich. 4:24:17 Susan M. Van Leeuwen. 4:24:21 Katherine Rogers. 4:24:24 Alice L. Karani. 4:24:27 Karen Stodart. 4:24:30 Corey Huff. 4:24:32 Chrissy Mitchell. 4:24:35 Tasir Otabachi. 4:24:38 Stuart Anthony Molnar. 4:24:41 Timothy Wood. 4:24:44 Kelly Clark. 4:24:46 Roxanne Hagen. 4:24:48 Janet Swanton. 4:24:51 Sean Marsh. 4:24:54 Karen. 4:24:56 Shannon Holmes. 4:24:58 Patricia Liedl. 4:25:02 Barb Colquhoun. 4:25:05 Una Nordquist. 4:25:08 Anita Bennett. 4:25:10 Diane Linden. 4:25:12 Katherine Dawn Dowell. 4:25:15 John Zillman. 4:25:17 Ria Sheila Ria. 4:25:20 Jennifer Armitage. 4:25:23 Mark Halpin. 4:25:26 Jen Hannigan. 4:25:28 Kathy Rostetler. 4:25:32 Ron Hawko. 4:25:34 Melissa Kolb. 4:25:36 Jonathan Heap. 4:25:38 Andrea Quaid. 4:25:41 Blake Crossley. 4:25:43 Kristen Chalborn. 4:25:46 Darren Gingrich. 4:25:48 Bonnie Lee Keefe. 4:25:50 Dolores Suchek. 4:25:52 Conrad Beckingham. 4:25:55 Derek James Christodick. 4:25:59 Anvi H. Lushuka. 4:26:02 Jennifer Robertson, Ryan Beckett, Mark Lindsey Gowacki, Brenda Roxanne Machuchen, Andrea Carson, Aubrey Webb, Jasmine Roseanne Daly, Edward A. Baranek, Diane Kettier, David Oswald, Sheldon Scott Allen, 4:26:32 Deborah Windsor, David K. Humbroof, Amanda Jolene Neufeld, Sheldon Scott Allen, Michael Zembach-Keats, Craig Edwards, Tammy Stevens, Julie Ivan, Deanne Seaton, Tammy Nicol, Pal, Tracy Stonehouse, Nicole Sador, 4:27:03 James Richard Evans. 4:27:06 Louise McIntyre. 4:27:08 Joe Thorny. 4:27:11 Cassie Young. 4:27:13 Shannon Kowalczuk. 4:27:16 Dana McPhee. 4:27:19 Crystal Walbaum. 4:27:22 Joanne Litster. 4:27:24 Blaine O'Brien. 4:27:27 Jewel Michelle Kerback. 4:27:30 Amanda Markphalen. 4:27:32 Stéphane Garbonnet. 4:27:35 Chris Kowalczyk. 4:27:37 Meredith Klitz. 4:27:40 Valerie Coté. 4:27:43 Josephine Wheeler. 4:27:45 Michelle Ellert. 4:27:48 Dwight Swan. 4:27:50 Charles Basnat. 4:27:52 Lisa Hackett. 4:27:55 John Merritt. 4:27:57 Suzanne Ballard. 4:28:00 Thomas Druin. 4:28:02 Michelle Wartzenberger, Tim Wines, Nancy, Barb, Patrick J. Morrison, Carla Murray, Ruth, Anne Griffin, Anthony Jarmillo-Calmenares, Suzanne Martin, Sylvia Larzachoff, 4:28:31 Andrea Pasta, Karen Ann LaRosso, Irene Verbanski, Nathalie Lefebvre, Nicole Maurier, Sylvie Berthiaumont, Jason Menard, Adam O'Neill, Dawood L. Janaby, Connie Lipichuk, Shannon Dupont, 4:29:00 Caroline Goodell, Jasmeet Grewal, Joel Perrimutter, Robert Moodley, Amanda Young, Brigitte Booth, Amanda Arnault, Jason Stewart, Savan Sarahayan, Tony Hennessy, Cal Moore, 4:29:31 Heather Church, Rhonda Judith Wenzel, Darius Dizmian, Jamie Adams-Bruce, Darla Luchan, Cal Moore, Robert Wayne Ament, Kelly Sue Orbell, Alan Ross, Angela Fabing, Ryan, Scott Allen, 4:30:02 Tina Dyke, Al, Martin Silwa, Michael Coles, Vivian Baker Dijon, David Wixson, Cody Tyson Brandon, Dawn Devine, Sherry McDougald, Nancy Dillon, Ronald James Grant, Holy Wright, 4:30:33 Holly Wright. 4:30:35 Robert William Dixon. 4:30:38 Ali Raza Esrani. 4:30:42 Deborah E. Bullock. 4:30:45 Jeff Wild. 4:30:48 Robert Wilson. 4:30:51 Glenn Harper. 4:30:53 Dimitros Ammoulohitis. 4:30:58 Lorraine Mayer. 4:31:01 Harjeet Sharma. 4:31:03 Brett Ernstein, Joan Reed, Crystal Thorn, Rodney Serson, Aaron Mycroise, Don Baldwin, Rony Basoul, Daris Keeley, Stephanie Lambrinsky, Ruth Queen, Ronald G. Papp, 4:31:32 Mia Di Soto Villana, Charlie J. Elimo, Daniel Como, Jeanette McKenzie, Guardian and Trustee of Kimberly Stewart, Patrick Christopher Beaudry, Marie Louise Rennick, Robert Deschamps, Bruce Moffat, Julian Schofield, 4:32:03 James B. Murray, Laura Jaramillo, Arthur Pendragon, Jan Rickleman, Cindy Splinter, Christopher Lee Grant, Patricia Fenty, Chris Tibbetts, Dimitrios Amol-Lohitis, Anthony Molachenko, 4:32:32 Helen Bobiwash. 4:32:34 Christine Cussellini. 4:32:37 Belinda Jankowiak. 4:32:41 Eric Andrew Perez. 4:32:44 Darlene Beaton. 4:32:46 Karen Reton James. 4:32:50 Michelle Jewel Kerback. 4:32:55 Nimita Wadhavav. 4:32:58 Todor Todorov. 4:33:00 Michael J. Wheeler. 4:33:03 Jill O'Brien, Amanda Calvert, Linda Ann Christie, Trudy L. Scott, Christian Reacher, Gary Malachan, Kristen Lauren Morley-Plewix, Cheryl Lynn Kramer, Rosanne McCollum, Chris Grenier, Anna Deklala, 4:33:31 Margaret Ann Warren. 4:33:34 Leslie M. Christy Schuller. 4:33:39 Sean Dane Finley. 4:33:43 Jenny C. Jessica Van Noord. 4:33:48 Mark Standick. 4:33:50 Angie Nichols. 4:33:52 Monique Firth-Wilson. 4:33:55 Amanda Lucas. 4:33:57 Lisa Faust. 4:33:59 Kristen Rachel Peterson. 4:34:02 Daniela Evans, Carleen Jagernath, Apollo Black Eagle, Christine Gold, Joseph Pritchard, Harry Pitney, Brian Forrester, Bodan Danik-Kilinski, Diane Martineau, Brodie Wall, Juliette, Donna Niren, 4:34:32 Vanya Hekard. 4:34:35 Garrett Ford. 4:34:37 Sanda Ramnery. 4:34:42 David Brian Hebert. 4:34:45 Mark Flynn. 4:34:47 Rosemary Phillip. 4:34:50 Reza. 4:34:52 Susan Thompson. 4:34:54 Marlene Jong-Smith. 4:34:57 Maura Lena Pescalina. 4:35:01 Luann Koulas, April Murphy, Wayne Unser, Carl Bateson, Ben Struans, Amy and Scott Banfield, Lillian Salani, Devin Oliver, James Crawley, Jaya Singh, Michelle Molenta, Jean Gieson, 4:35:31 Katherine Parkman, Daniel Krosmas II, Stacey Rice, Susan, Christine Krawick, Bonnie Sisson, Albert Nguyen, Joseph Loenza, Patricia Norris, Charmaine Downey-Chinard, Sherry Wilson, 4:35:59 Sabrina Parkinson. 4:36:02 Natalie Howard. 4:36:04 Anna Strader. 4:36:06 Lisa Lavoie. 4:36:09 Shandell Gaines. 4:36:11 Annie Ventresca. 4:36:14 Julie Woods. 4:36:16 Michael Raymond Manthorpe. 4:36:19 Stacey Lajoie. 4:36:22 Brenda Whalen. 4:36:24 Duska Jones. 4:36:28 Carol Avone. 4:36:31 Tim Harding. 4:36:33 Brian Ferguson. 4:36:35 Laurie Stahl. 4:36:38 Charmaine Sheenard. 4:36:40 Jason Disver. 4:36:43 Alina Robinson. 4:36:46 Nishanteth Najaran. 4:36:50 Tim Harding. 4:36:52 Mary Lou Laval. 4:36:55 Anthony Dionisi. 4:36:58 Vernon Jacobs. 4:37:01 Jeremy Smith. 4:37:03 Nikki McClevney. 4:37:06 Sean Mulligan. 4:37:09 Mike See. 4:37:11 Mary Liu. 4:37:13 Kathy Sivarns. 4:37:16 Katherine Shoebridge. 4:37:19 Louise Elizabeth Quick. 4:37:22 Joseph Bruce Stevenson. 4:37:26 Lise Neufeld. 4:37:28 Joseph Bruce Stevenson, Tanya Collain, and Brian. Speaker 22
4:38:06 So thank you very much for being here today. 4:38:09 Over the past several years, Canadians experienced the pandemic in very different ways. 4:38:14 Many families lost loved ones to COVID-19. 4:38:18 We had many frontline health care workers and our first responders carried an enormous burden. 4:38:23 And I want to thank all our first responders and our frontline health care workers for all the work that you do every single day. 4:38:29 But there was also Canadians who suffered serious adverse events following vaccinations who feel their stories have not been adequately heard. 4:38:39 Every Canadian deserves to be treated with dignity, respect and compassion. 4:38:44 When people come forward, 4:38:47 With concerns about their health, our first response should never be dismissal. 4:38:50 It should be listening. 4:38:52 The individuals sharing their experiences through projects such as the Allison Inquiry are not statistics. 4:38:57 They're our mothers, our fathers, our sons, our daughters, our friends, and our neighbors. 4:39:02 Their experiences deserve to be documented, examined, and understood. 4:39:06 Good public policy depends upon public trust. 4:39:09 Trust is strengthened when governments and institutions are willing to ask difficult questions from the evidence wherever it leads and acknowledge when people have been harmed. 4:39:18 My position is simple. 4:39:20 Compassion for those who suffered from COVID-19 4:39:23 and compassion for those who were injured following the vaccination, and a commitment to transparency, accountability, and giving people a chance to share their stories and to be heard. 4:39:33 Canadians should never be afraid to tell their stories, and government should never be afraid to listen. 4:39:38 Today, I want to highlight two reasons why these stories matter and why Canada needs a more thorough examination of its pandemic response. 4:39:45 First, we can't ignore the experience of Canadians who were injured following the vaccination. 4:39:50 The government recognizes this. 4:39:52 Even the Liberals recognize this. 4:39:54 And federal reporting through the public health 4:39:58 has said that there's been over 58,000 adverse events reported in Canada, including more than 11,000 classified as serious. 4:40:06 The Federal Vaccine Injury Support Program had received more than 3,500 claims. 4:40:11 More than 3,000 of those claims were deemed admissible for review, and so the government acknowledged that people had been injured, and yet only over 250 people have been compensated. 4:40:28 Many individuals tell us they have struggled to be heard, struggled to navigate the system, and struggled to obtain answers. 4:40:35 There are legitimate questions about whether the support program is delivering the assistance efficiently. 4:40:41 According to the report by the Globe and Mail last year, more than $54 million was provided to Oxaero, the company administering the vaccine injury support program, with more than $36 million being spent on administration. 4:40:53 That's two-thirds spent on administration, while only a fraction of the claims have resulted in compensation. 4:41:00 Whether one supports or opposes government pandemic policies, I believe Canadians agree on one principle. 4:41:05 If people have been harmed, they deserve compensation, support, transparency, and a timely assistance. 4:41:11 Second, Canada has increasingly become an outlier among democratic nations when it comes to reviewing what happened during the pandemic. 4:41:18 More than 30 Democratic countries have launched significant COVID inquiries, including public commissions, parliamentary investigations, and independent national reviews. 4:41:27 These include countries such as the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, Norway, Italy, France, the United States. 4:41:33 Many G7 countries and many Commonwealth countries have recognized an event of this magnitude deserves careful examination. 4:41:40 These reviews have looked at government decision-making, lockdowns, mandates, policies, vaccine policies, economic impacts, public health preparedness, and civil liberties concerns. 4:41:51 They have not undertaken these inquiries because they all had the answers. 4:41:54 They undertook them 4:41:56 because their citizens deserve answers. 4:41:59 Yet here in Canada, one of the most significant events in modern national history has never been examined through a comprehensive national public inquiry with a level of transparency and independence that many Canadians believe is necessary. 4:42:13 That said... 4:42:14 We're not proposing a national inquiry today. 4:42:16 What we are proposing is something more immediate and accessible, an opportunity for Canadians to share their experiences, tell their stories, and ensure that their voices are heard. 4:42:28 As I've traveled across the country, and as my colleagues have traveled across the country, we have heard countless stories from Canadians. 4:42:35 People have come to my office. 4:42:37 People have written letters. 4:42:38 They've sent emails. 4:42:39 Some lost loved ones to COVID-19. 4:42:42 Some people lost businesses. 4:42:43 Some struggle with isolation and mental health challenges. 4:42:47 Others experience severe adverse reactions following the vaccination. 4:42:52 What they all have in common is a desire to be heard. 4:42:56 That is why this conversation matters. 4:42:58 This is not about relegating every decision or relitigating, sorry, every decision that was made during an unprecedented crisis. 4:43:05 This is not about assigning blame. 4:43:08 It's about learning. 4:43:09 It's about listening. 4:43:10 It's about ensuring that when the next public health emergency arrives, Canada is better prepared because we have the courage to examine what happened honestly and openly. 4:43:21 Canadians deserve transparency. 4:43:23 Canadians deserve accountability. 4:43:25 And above all... 4:43:27 Canadians deserve to know that their experiences matter. 4:43:30 The stories that we will hear in September are a reminder that behind every statistic is an actual human being. 4:43:37 Their voices deserve to be heard. 4:43:39 Many have suffered in silence, and their country should be willing to listen. 4:43:44 My call to action is if you've been injured or someone you know has been injured, we'd love to hear your stories. 4:43:50 I'd ask you to go to allisoninquiry.com and fill out the forms and then we hopefully we can get a chance to hear your stories. Speaker 17
4:44:05 My name is Sean Buckley and I'm a lawyer that is volunteering. 4:44:10 with the COVID Testimony Association, which is a not-for-profit that was set up to help manage this inquiry. 4:44:19 This inquiry is meant to be a non-partisan inquiry. 4:44:23 If it was set up by the Conservative Party or the Liberal Party or the NDP or the Bloc, 4:44:29 it would be difficult for other MPs to participate. 4:44:33 So this is rather unique is the COVID Testimony Association is citizen run. 4:44:39 It's a volunteer organization. 4:44:41 So I will be participating, Teresa here who will be speaking next, are participating as volunteers to partner with MPs so that MPs from all stripes of all parties feel free to come and listen to Canadians because that's all that's happening here. 4:45:00 And the motivation is quite something. 4:45:04 I was involved in another citizen inquiry, the National Citizen Inquiry, which is in 2003, listened to vaccine injured persons. 4:45:16 And I remember there was a volunteer named Christine, and she was getting quite involved. 4:45:21 And I asked her, I said, Christine, why are you helping? 4:45:25 Why are you volunteering? 4:45:26 And 4:45:28 her body language she just froze she got this pain looked in her face and she just froze and I I knew that she was volunteering because somebody close to her had been injured by a COVID-19 vaccine I was now just waiting to hear who it was and she explained that her husband died after taking the shot her best friend died after taking the shot and a teenage son of another very good friend died after taking the shot 4:45:55 We've all had this type of experience. 4:45:58 For me, early on, once we started this down this road, it was in my neighborhood, myocarditis. 4:46:06 So the teenager that did my yard work couldn't do my yard work anymore because of myocarditis. 4:46:13 A neighbor a couple doors down in early 30s, myocarditis. 4:46:17 Another neighbor down the block, severely bedridden and sick for a long period of time. 4:46:24 And now it just seems I'm surrounded by people that are getting cancer. 4:46:28 In fact, one of the persons that I'm hoping will help in a very significant way with this inquiry, I'm hoping that will be far enough down the cancer journey to be able to participate. 4:46:39 And everyone I speak to, we all have this experience, are aware of people. 4:46:45 And so this is something that we need to address. 4:46:48 Now, what's interesting is... 4:46:53 Even in arriving here today to do this press conference, I've learned that this is a topic that almost seems to be forbidden. 4:47:04 You know, MP Dean Allison last year indicated, you know, I'd like to actually just listen to Canadians sharing their stories in a more formal way. 4:47:17 Every MP is having this experience in an informal way. 4:47:21 where Canadians are coming to them and wanting to talk about vaccine entry. 4:47:26 And we spoke to several MPs and it's interesting they'd ask questions like is it okay? 4:47:31 Am I going to get into trouble? 4:47:33 How is Parliament going to react? 4:47:34 How are parties going to react? 4:47:36 That there seems to be a fear in actually having people come and formally share their stories before a panel of MPs and Senators are also invited to participate 4:47:49 and it it's kind of got me thinking we've gone through this experience where decisions were made to try and get as many people vaccinated as possible and this inquiry is not here to question any of that at all but there was pressure and we experienced that pressure but that pressure is no longer here there we should be free to to speak now and I I wonder if what's happened is as we've internalized that pressure that was there before 4:48:18 And now we need something to give us permission to speak again. 4:48:24 So it's certainly, I've learned that our lawmakers need permission to speak again. 4:48:31 And I anticipate that the MPs and Senators that participate in this inquiry, which is just to listen to ordinary Canadians sharing their journey, 4:48:44 that it's going to be something that will be freeing for all of us. 4:48:47 Again, this is non-partisan. 4:48:51 This is just to create an opportunity for Canadians to share their stories. 4:48:56 The Allison Inquiry is not to make any findings. 4:49:01 It's not here to grind an axe. 4:49:03 It's so that our elected representatives and our appointed senators have an opportunity 4:49:09 to listen to you Canadians and you know as as MP Dean Allison spoke earlier in this press conference I mean there are numbers we know that a lot of us have been injured by the COVID-19 vaccines and it just raises the question can we not accept that we're here today that many of us are injured 4:49:34 And we need to hear their stories and we need to privilege them. 4:49:38 You know, when we were doing the National Citizens Inquiry, there were a couple of themes that came out that are troubling, but they need to be addressed and they need to be spoken about. 4:49:47 And one was, is people that were vaccine insured really felt like they had taken one for the team. 4:49:54 And I think we need to understand and appreciate that. 4:49:59 A large number of Canadians were volunteering to take the COVID-19 vaccine to protect the rest of us. 4:50:08 So they were doing something to protect us. 4:50:11 And now that they're injured, we have a responsibility to recognize that they were injured, to listen to their stories. 4:50:19 But we also have a tremendous responsibility to care for them. 4:50:23 Another thing that they shared, so, you know, first, you know, they were doing this to protect others. 4:50:30 They were taking one for the team. 4:50:32 But their experience, many of them, their experience with the medical community was is that there was a reluctance to accept that they were actually injured by the vaccine. 4:50:44 Some of them even described what most of us would describe as gaslighting, like there's almost this refusal. 4:50:52 in the medical system to accept that they were vaccine-injured. 4:50:56 Now, we're all the same. 4:50:58 It doesn't matter whether we're just common citizens, whether we're elected members of parliament, whether we're health care providers. 4:51:05 We all had this experience where there was pressure on us not to question. 4:51:12 And it's reasonable to assume that the medical community is also internalized 4:51:18 that pressure because they're there to help us. 4:51:21 And they're under tremendous strain. 4:51:23 And we're hoping that having ordinary Canadians sharing their stories at the Allison Inquiry will also assist the medical community in giving them permission to speak. 4:51:35 Because here's the ethical problem that we have. 4:51:38 And, you know, 4:51:40 We basically have a commandment to love each other like we love ourselves. 4:51:45 And when it comes to, here we are in 2026, when it comes to those of us that have been injured by the vaccine, love includes listening to their stories. 4:51:55 giving them a safe place for them to understand that, you know, they haven't lost their mind. 4:52:02 They're not alone. 4:52:04 We are going to listen to them. 4:52:06 But loving them also includes then those that are vaccine injured, acknowledging that they're vaccine injured so that they can be treated properly. 4:52:16 Not, oh, it's something else, because there are protocols, there are treatments, and we do a disservice by not having this conversation, by not focusing our care on those who have taken one for the team. 4:52:28 We do them a disservice by not having this conversation. 4:52:32 So we view this as a real opportunity. 4:52:35 This is just an opportunity for Canadians to come together, to share their stories, 4:52:43 in an open, non-partisan environment. 4:52:48 And so we are inviting all Canadians, we're inviting those that are vaccine-injured to apply to become witnesses. 4:52:55 So you can go to allisoninquiry.com. 4:52:58 You can also go to covidtestimony.com. 4:53:00 You will find us. 4:53:03 Apply. 4:53:04 to be a witness. 4:53:05 If you know somebody who is injured, encourage them to apply to be a witness. 4:53:10 We are calling on all members of Parliament and Senators to contact Dean Allison and apply to participate 4:53:21 in this inquiry. 4:53:22 It will change you. 4:53:23 You're already listening and thank you. 4:53:26 You're already listening to the stories of Canadians who are vaccine injured. 4:53:30 We know you're listening. 4:53:32 This gives you another forum to do it in a more formal way. 4:53:36 We're inviting you to join us. 4:53:38 We're inviting the public 4:53:42 We're inviting the public to participate in this. 4:53:46 You know, for the vaccine injured that want to have a voice, that want to share their stories, that want to be heard and acknowledged, it's meaningful if there are people that listen. 4:53:58 And so we're inviting you. 4:53:59 The Allison Inquiry is going to be heard on September 8th. 4:54:03 9th, 10th and 11th from a committee room on Parliament Hill. 4:54:08 It will be broadcast live and we're inviting all of Canadians to participate in what we anticipate is going to be a healing journey for the nation and a beginning for us to be free to basically have a conversation about something that we need to have a conversation about, not in a judging way, but just listening to each other's stories so that together we can decide how to best move forward. Speaker 29
4:54:40 Hello, my name is Theresa Buckley and I'm a volunteer. 4:54:46 And I just want to share with you just a little story about my daughter-in-law and when I spoke with her about what it was that Sean and I were doing with MP Dean Allison. 4:55:00 I told her about a yoga instructor that I had. 4:55:03 Her name was Drew Taylor. 4:55:05 She testified at the National Citizens Inquiry as well. 4:55:09 Drew Taylor was a power yoga instructor. 4:55:13 She was the strongest woman I'd ever known. 4:55:18 She could do amazing things. 4:55:20 She was so strong. 4:55:21 Mother of two, 32 years old, happily married. 4:55:27 She took one COVID-19 vaccine, and within an hour, she was in the hospital. 4:55:34 And she remained there for quite a while. 4:55:37 She finally started to get better. 4:55:40 And she was released. 4:55:43 And for her reasons, she got a second shot. 4:55:50 The details behind that are her story. 4:55:52 They're not mine. 4:55:54 I'm just here to share with you that after she got her second shot, she now needs a walker. 4:56:03 She has pots. 4:56:05 And she faints about 30 times a day. 4:56:10 I think it's time that Canadians listen. 4:56:14 I think it's time for people like Drew Taylor have a voice, and I think they need to be heard. 4:56:22 When I was sharing this with my daughter-in-law, I told her about Drew's story, and what my daughter-in-law told me was, I just don't understand why no one's talking about it. 4:56:38 Why is everyone quiet? 4:56:42 Why is everyone silent? 4:56:50 It's kind of hard to sit in that silence. 4:56:55 So today we're not going to do that anymore. 4:56:58 It's time. 4:57:00 Canadians are suffering from sea to sea. 4:57:04 And it's time to hear from them. 4:57:06 So I just want to thank you. 4:57:08 Thank you, Dean, for being courageous. 4:57:11 and courage is infectious, please go to our website, allisoninquiry.com, sign up to be a witness, and we look forward to listening to you. 4:57:24 The time is now. 4:57:26 Thank you. Speaker 17
4:58:54 So if there's any questions, we'll now take questions. Speaker 9
4:58:58 You've been a backbencher for a little while now. 4:59:00 22 years. 4:59:01 Yes, exactly, since the Harper years. Speaker 22
4:59:10 We're just getting back together after lunch, and we're going to get started again right back into our witnesses and some testimony. 4:59:16 I'll turn it over to my colleague, Mr. Buckley. Speaker 17
4:59:21 So our next witness is Dr. James Thorpe. 4:59:25 Dr. Thorpe, would you please take the Bible in your right hand? 4:59:29 Dr. James Thorpe, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Speaker 14
4:59:41 And I thank you for coming. Speaker 17
4:59:42 I understand that it was a long trip and a commitment, but I also understand that you 4:59:51 believe they were supposed to be here. Speaker 25
4:59:55 I had a very strong calling to be here. 4:59:59 I wouldn't have missed it for the world. Speaker 17
5:00:00 I'm just going to introduce you to the inquiry. 5:00:06 So you are a board certified obstetrician, gynecologist and maternal fetal medicine physician with over 45 years of experience. 5:00:19 Throughout your distinguished career, you have overseen countless high risk pregnancies. 5:00:24 You are still practicing full time. 5:00:27 You have been an examiner for the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology. 5:00:33 You have been involved in over 250 published papers. 5:00:39 You have been a reviewer for major medical journals. 5:00:43 And I'm just limiting myself to the ones on obstetrics and gynecology. 5:00:50 These journals, medical journals that you've been a peer reviewer on include the Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, the Journal of Maternal Fetal Investigation, and then just listing a few. 5:01:08 So when these other mainstream medical journals need an expert in obstetrics or gynecology, you are brought in as a reviewer. 5:01:16 You have been for the Western Journal of Medicine. 5:01:19 the Journal of Maternal Fetal Medicine, the New England Journal of Medicine, the Journal of the American Medical Association. 5:01:27 You have written five chapters in obstetrics and gynecology textbooks. 5:01:32 You also held a position on the board of directors for the Society of Maternal Fetal Medicine for four years. 5:01:39 You have testified as an expert before U.S. Senate committees. 5:01:44 And you have researched extensively into COVID-19 and COVID-19 vaccines in relation to fertility, pregnancy, and other issues. 5:01:54 This research has resulted in more than 70 published articles and two books. 5:02:00 And I'll advise the inquiry that we are including as an exhibit Dr. Thorpe's CV, which is 42 pages in length. 5:02:09 And Dr. Thorpe, we've invited you to speak. 5:02:12 about COVID-19 vaccines in relation to pregnancy and fertility. 5:02:17 And so I'd invite you to continue with your presentation. Speaker 25
5:02:21 Thank you very much, Counselor Attorney Sean Buckley. 5:02:26 And thank you so much, Chairperson Dean Ellison. 5:02:32 And thank you for all of the other members of Parliament. 5:02:36 It's an honor and a privilege for me to be here. 5:02:40 What I'd like to accomplish today is to focus on some of the discrepancy between the published medical literature and that of fact checkers and the bias of the medical literature and why that exists. 5:03:05 So I'm really excited. 5:03:07 Grateful to see that I by my count. 5:03:10 There's about 16 alternate media sites covering this and thank you for each of you for for being here, but What's really missing is where's all the legacy media? 5:03:26 Where's the mainstream media? 5:03:28 I don't see them It's a very similar 5:03:33 situation with regard to the mainstream media not being present here and the medical literature and the bias of the medical literature. 5:03:46 The mainstream media is ignoring this event. 5:03:50 I believe that this event is and that event of Senator Ron Johnson in the United States of America. 5:03:59 I believe it's my opinion that this is this is one of the most important hearings in the history of Canada. 5:04:10 And Senator Ron Johnson's in the history of the United States of America, because this has been the most egregious medical disaster ever. 5:04:20 in the history of medicine. 5:04:23 So why is that? 5:04:25 I want to say if you go on AI Chat GPT or if you go on Grok, you say, hey, what's the effects? 5:04:37 What's the safety of the COVID-19 vaccine in pregnancy? 5:04:40 You're going to get about 100 articles that say it's safe and effective. 5:04:45 100 articles in peer-reviewed medical journals. 5:04:48 Interestingly, 5:04:50 Not a one of those will cite the data that I'm about to present to you. 5:04:58 So medical journal publication bias, why does it exist? 5:05:03 Well, let's start from the top. 5:05:05 There's about 15,000 peer reviewed medical journals in the world. 5:05:11 The vast majority of these are owned by five companies. 5:05:16 The rest, medical organizations, 5:05:19 universities, private companies, private companies like the New England Journal of Medicine. 5:05:26 So in other words, these institutions that are, I'll show you, terminally captured, they have the power to determine what is published, what is not published. 5:05:39 And if it does get through the publication process into the journals, it'll get retracted if it's against their narrative. 5:05:48 And to prove that, you can go to retractionwatch.com. 5:05:54 And you'll see over the last 20 years, the number of journal articles retracted was very linear, very linear. 5:06:03 Before the pandemic, there was a logarithmic increase in the number of retractions. 5:06:10 For example, Dr. Peter McCullough's article on autopsy proven causes that the COVID-19 vaccine 5:06:19 Killed individual. 5:06:20 Autopsy proven. 5:06:22 Retracted. 5:06:23 So there's a lot of bias here, and that's got to be acknowledged. 5:06:29 The four most influential medical journals in the world, New England Journal of Medicine, Lancet, British Medical Journal, and Journal of the American Medical Association, probably in that order. 5:06:44 Now, I want you to focus on this slide. 5:06:49 Because this slide is self-evident and it really is convicting. 5:06:58 It is a conviction and testimony of the major editors-in-chiefs of these journals who testify, who go on record, editors-in-chiefs of their own journal, the New England Journal of Medicine, Dr. Marshall Angel. 5:07:18 Dr. Arnold Rellman. 5:07:20 And I'll paraphrase them, but you can read what they've said. 5:07:23 This is a quarter of a century ago that basically the New England Journal of Medicine is terminally kleptocratically entangled with the pharmaceutical industry and medical device companies. 5:07:37 That's the editors-in-chiefs of the New England Journal of Medicine. 5:07:41 It's not Jim Thorpe. 5:07:43 It's not others. 5:07:45 It's their own top brass. 5:07:47 Richard Horton, editor-in-chief of The Lancet. 5:07:52 Same sentiments. 5:07:54 And then you have three high-ranking officers of the British Medical Journal. 5:07:59 You have Fiona Godley, former editor-in-chief. 5:08:03 Richard Smith, former editor-in-chief. 5:08:06 And you also have Doug Altman, chief statistical officer for the 5:08:12 For the British Medical Journal, these are the top three most influential medical journals in the world. 5:08:20 So if this is 25 years ago, it's gotten a lot worse since then. 5:08:26 And I'll show you that. 5:08:27 By the way, this would be equivalent to, let's say, the CNN or Fox News or MSNBC, their CEOs coming out and saying, 5:08:38 Oh, everything we're published is horribly biased and is fraudulent. 5:08:42 That's basically what it would be roughly equivalent to. 5:08:47 It's gotten worse. 5:08:48 This is a quarter of a century ago. 5:08:50 This is just not even two years ago. 5:08:54 This is published, to their credit, in the Journal of the American Medical Association, David Dan Wynn and colleagues. 5:09:03 This is October 10th of 2021. 5:09:07 And what these authors published is nothing short than astounding. 5:09:14 Excuse me. 5:09:15 What they published just two years ago is that they looked at the main reviewers, medical journal reviewers, like I was. 5:09:26 For the four major medical journals that I've described, the four major medical journals, BMJ, Lancet, New England Journal of Medicine, and the Journal of the American Medical Association, and they match their primary reviewers with private pay databases in the United States of America. 5:09:46 So this is just four medical journals, just the United States of America, 5:09:54 just two years, three years, 2020, 2021, and 2022, these allegedly private independent reviewers, they were paid $1.06 billion from the pharmaceutical companies. 5:10:13 This is a horrible conflict of interest. 5:10:18 And how can we trust this peer review process? 5:10:23 I mentioned that I was a journal reviewer for multiple different journals my entire career. 5:10:32 I've never received a dime. 5:10:34 So this is really concerning. 5:10:35 But it gets worse. 5:10:37 It gets much worse. 5:10:39 Not only are the allegedly independent reviewers not independent, they're paid off by big pharma and device manufacturers. 5:10:50 But the journal editors themselves are also paid off. 5:10:55 Look at the mean payment, $37,000. 5:10:58 That's not chump change. 5:11:00 So they're all paid off. 5:11:03 They're incentivized. 5:11:05 So what can you believe? 5:11:07 You go to chat. 5:11:08 It's no wonder you go to chat GP and you get an extremely biased review because any AI will only generate articles from peer-reviewed publications. 5:11:20 This is even worse. 5:11:22 This is published in one of our papers, prominent co-authors who you recognize. 5:11:31 And I have to acknowledge attorney Maggie Thorpe, J.D., for pulling this up. 5:11:39 But this sure looks like money laundering to me through Rochelle Walensky and Janet Woodcock at the HHS. 5:11:50 appears to be funneling money through the Massachusetts Department of Health, through the Massachusetts Medical Society, which is a private organization, which, by the way, owns the New England Journal of Medicine, $426,000. 5:12:07 For what reason? 5:12:10 Wait a minute. 5:12:11 Why is a government organization paying the New England Journal of Medicine $426,000? 5:12:19 Well, I'll tell you why on subsequent slides. 5:12:22 It's very clear that the government needed a mouthpiece to the most influential medical journal in the world. 5:12:31 This is the way medical journal writing works. 5:12:36 It's corrupt. 5:12:39 I've detailed here on the slide just 12 levels, hierarchical levels of medical journal bias. 5:12:48 It's atrocious. 5:12:49 Let me give you a personal example. 5:12:53 If essentially every institution, academic center in Canada and in the United States of America have protocol for authorship, any doctor in that system or researcher 5:13:10 is not allowed to submit anything for publication unless it's approved by their department chair, their division director, or the director of research of that institution. 5:13:22 Well, guess what? 5:13:24 They're never allowed to publish something that goes against this current protocol of these hospitals, which is pushing the COVID-19 vaccines, not only in all their employees and their patients, but their pregnant women, 5:13:41 So they would never allow that to be published. 5:13:44 So is it any wonder? 5:13:46 And to attest to this, exactly why I was fired from SSM Health Hospital, because I testified in the United States Senate. 5:13:57 I was on Tucker Carlson before he was fired from Fox News. 5:14:03 I probably contributed to that since he interviewed me. 5:14:08 And of course, Fox News, 5:14:10 It gains a revenue, a huge amount of revenue from the pharmaceutical advertising. 5:14:14 So that's not tenable. 5:14:16 You can't do that. 5:14:18 So I was fired for the same reason from SSM Health Hospital. 5:14:24 Now, we alluded to this earlier. 5:14:27 The corruption goes much beyond this. 5:14:31 I've listened in tears here, listening to some of the witnesses here. 5:14:37 It's horrible. 5:14:38 Many of these witnesses had their COVID-19 vaccine and their adverse events within two weeks of the vaccine. 5:14:46 Guess what? 5:14:48 Canada, your databases, your societies, your hospitals, American mind. 5:14:55 They counted those individuals that were killed or injured by the vaccine, they counted them as unvaccinated until two weeks after the vaccine, some cases, three weeks. 5:15:09 Horrible. 5:15:12 Now, there's been a lot of focus and Senator Ron Johnson and myself took a lot of heat and 5:15:21 by bringing up the miscarriages associated. 5:15:24 And on this slide, you'll see that miscarriages associated with the vaccine are definitely increased by how much? 5:15:34 Nobody knows. 5:15:35 There hasn't been not allowed to be adequately performed studies to determine that. 5:15:42 But what I can tell you, the Pfizer 5.3.6 post-marketing data, which I'll show you in a minute, noted a rate of 81%. 5:15:54 The Shimabukuro study, the raw data showed a rate of 82%. 5:16:00 Do I trust either of those sources? 5:16:02 No, I don't have much confidence. 5:16:05 My open letter to the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology noted literally a 5:16:13 very significant 271 fold increase in comparison of the COVID-19 vaccine to the influenza vaccine. 5:16:21 Likewise, our study in the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons Journal noted 177-fold increase in miscarriage with the COVID-19 vaccine compared to the influenza vaccine. 5:16:38 Now, Dr. Naomi Wolf, completely separate and independent of me, 5:16:44 And independent of the Pfizer 5.3.6 data that I analyzed, she came up with a miscarriage rate of 82 percent from Pfizer's internal papers. 5:16:55 Do I trust that data? 5:16:56 No, I don't trust anything from Pfizer or for that matter, the New England Journal of Medicine. 5:17:02 And then finally, our last study that was published in Science, Public Health Policy, and the law looked again at 114-fold increase. 5:17:13 So from comparing COVID-19 vaccines to the influenza vaccines. 5:17:20 Now, this is Pfizer 5.3.6 data legally mandated vaccine. 5:17:31 by our country to report back the first 90 days. 5:17:35 Interestingly, they cut it off at 70 days. 5:17:39 This is what you see on page seven. 5:17:42 I had this data in 2021. 5:17:44 There were 42,086 casualties, including 1,223 dead in just 70 days after the rollout. 5:17:48 Importantly, of those dead, 5:18:01 Twenty five percent died on the first day of the vaccine. 5:18:05 And by the way, in your databases, our databases are counted as unvaccinated, unvaccinated. 5:18:12 Right now, you can easily do an injure to kill ratio simply by taking that forty two thousand eighty six. 5:18:20 subtracting the number died and divided it by the number of died. 5:18:25 And you come up with an injured to kill ratio of 33.4. 5:18:28 Now, if you do that same analytic with the VAERS database, it comes up to about 45. 5:18:36 Now, I'm a disabled Air Force veteran, and I know my military history. 5:18:43 You look at wars, you're looking at an injured to kill ratio that is less than 10. 5:18:48 Even the atomic weapons that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we're looking at an injure to kill ratio of less than five. 5:19:01 This is the page 12 of the Pfizer 5.3.6 data. 5:19:08 Pregnant women weren't supposed to be in here, but 270 of them were in there. 5:19:13 Majority, I won't, this is a very busy slide, but by my analytics, what they reported, there's a miscarriage rate of 81%. 5:19:22 The stillbirth rate is five-fold of what it should be by national average. 5:19:27 The neonatal death rate is eight-fold. 5:19:30 The breastfeeding complications were significant. 5:19:33 Now, this is the infamous New England Journal of Medicine study. 5:19:39 published on the e-journal, June 21st, I'm sorry, April 21st, 2021. 5:19:46 Now, this is their raw data. 5:19:48 What they reported was 827 pregnant women, and they reported 104 miscarriages. 5:19:56 Now, interesting sleight of hand, 5:20:00 They state you can clearly see in their text that 700 of these 827 pregnant women didn't receive their COVID-19 vaccine until after 28 weeks. 5:20:13 You can't have a miscarriage after 28 weeks. 5:20:16 A miscarriage occurs only once. 5:20:19 before 20 weeks. 5:20:21 So they diluted the denominator, and they reported a miscarriage rate of 12.6, which is 102 divided by 827. 5:20:31 But really, you take that 700 out of the denominator, and you're looking at 102 over 127. 5:20:36 That's a miscarriage rate of 82%, multiple erratum and corrections 5:20:46 I don't believe this article was written by the authors. 5:20:50 I think it was ghostwritten. 5:20:52 It's horribly, ridiculously written. 5:20:58 It's only 10 weeks of data. 5:21:00 Pregnancy is 40 weeks. 5:21:02 And they use the V-safe data system, which is very easy to manipulate, as you'll see on subsequent slides. 5:21:11 What should a miscarriage rate be? 5:21:14 Well, even their 12.6%, if you look at the best study on miscarriage rates, 5:21:20 By Tong and colleagues published in our main green journal, you're looking at 1.6%. 5:21:28 So 12.6 divided by 1.6, you're looking at a risk rate of COVID-19 vaccines, even of their lower number, which I don't believe, of eightfold. 5:21:39 So who knows? 5:21:41 It's definitely increased. 5:21:42 Now, I got back to that what appears to be money laundering 5:21:48 between the United States government, Rochelle Walensky, and Kashima Bakuro, the whole team over there, you can add Francis Collins, you can add Jeffrey Zients, the chief executive of the White House, and many others, Vivek Murthy, the surgeon general. 5:22:08 I could go on and on. 5:22:10 So they pay the New England Journal of Medicine $426,000, why? 5:22:17 Well, for this reason. 5:22:19 So they can publish two articles in the New England Journal of Medicine on April 21st. 5:22:25 One, the fraudulent, corrupted Shimabukuro article. 5:22:30 And the second one, interestingly, an op-ed. 5:22:34 Isn't that interesting? 5:22:36 Eric Rubin, the editor-in-chief, invites who? 5:22:40 Rochelle Walensky. 5:22:41 Well, isn't that convenient? 5:22:44 Rochelle Walensky says. 5:22:45 Four hundred and twenty six thousand dollars. 5:22:48 She's never seen a pregnant woman before in practice. 5:22:51 She's not. 5:22:52 Why didn't Eric Rubin invite somebody with extensive obstetrical experience and extensive research in maternal fetal medicine physician that would have been much more qualified to have an op ed on the effects of the vaccine and pregnancy? 5:23:11 Why? 5:23:11 Hmm. 5:23:13 probably related to $420,000, I would guess. 5:23:18 So I want to say they push these articles out, pushing the safety of vaccine and pregnancy to the most vulnerable patients, pregnant women. 5:23:31 This is April 21st, 2021. 5:23:34 We just listened to Senator Ron Johnson. 5:23:38 We chatted, Senator Ron Johnson presented, you know, over the last month. 5:23:44 They lied. 5:23:45 They hid the safety signals. 5:23:47 We have the receipts. 5:23:49 We know where the bones are buried. 5:23:52 We have the emails of Fauci, the diary of Fauci. 5:23:57 They knew that there was a safety signal. 5:24:01 Concerns. 5:24:03 concerns for inflammation and fever and miscarriage and they hit it yet again. 5:24:11 They not only hid it, but Rochelle Walensky gets up here in this op-ed and she says, you threaten this pregnant woman. 5:24:19 If you don't take it, you may die. 5:24:21 Your babies may die. 5:24:22 When the exact opposite was true, the study by Pinnells and colleagues is very clear. 5:24:28 Pregnant women had a 75% reduction in mortality compared to non-pregnant women. 5:24:36 So this is an abomination of truth. 5:24:42 These these are the emails. 5:24:43 I won't go through these. 5:24:44 We heard Senator Ron Johnson. 5:24:48 But, you know, there's there's one other email that I some more emails and texts. 5:24:53 These are damning. 5:24:54 These are in writing. 5:24:55 These are January 25th, 2021. 5:24:59 They knew there was an issue and it was buried and hidden from the American people and worse, pushed. 5:25:08 push. 5:25:08 It's necessary in pregnancy. 5:25:10 You need to take the vaccines. 5:25:13 But there was one more email that you didn't see, and that was from a diary. 5:25:20 And this is from Nobel laureate who got the Nobel Prize for the COVID-19 vaccine, Andrew Weissman. 5:25:32 And he 5:25:33 emailed Fauci and said, hey, we have animal data, pregnant animal data, and we have amniotic fluid saying that there is a safety signal inflammation in the amniotic fluid, in the amniotic fluid of these pregnant animals. 5:25:53 Heard nothing of it. 5:25:55 Nobody, Fauci buried it. 5:25:58 This 5:26:02 V-safe data, I do need, because this is really important for the Canadian Parliament, the citizens, and for America to know. 5:26:11 This is just published, the V-safe data. 5:26:14 This is United States FDA government data that, of course, the Shimabukuro article was based on. 5:26:22 It was a corrupt system, but they followed 10 million people. 5:26:26 50% of those 10 million had significant problems. 5:26:31 adverse effects. 5:26:33 Most importantly, this long COVID syndrome is a charade. 5:26:41 It's a masquerade for vaccine injury, as demonstrated by this study. 5:26:47 So what they found, and this is published by Ratzef Levi and by Nelson Liu of MIT. 5:26:56 These are very brilliant 5:26:59 Physician researchers and what they found was 1.87% of the V-safe data had long COVID defined as significant symptoms for three months or longer. 5:27:12 What's this mean? 5:27:14 This means that there are over 630,000 Canadians that are vaccine injured with quote long COVID syndrome, but it's from vaccine injury. 5:27:28 over 5 million Americans. 5:27:30 This is a very important study. 5:27:33 It's very important for the Parliament and the Canadian people to understand don't use long COVID syndrome. 5:27:42 It's a masquerade for vaccine injury, period. Speaker 17
5:27:46 So, Dr. Thorpe, can you go into that a little more? 5:27:49 Because it's not really coming out on the slide as to why they say that long COVID is really... 5:27:57 vaccine injury. 5:27:58 Like I do appreciate that there's the odd study out there where they're pretending that's long COVID, but when you look into the data, like 70 or 80% of the people are vaccinated. 5:28:07 So how do we know? 5:28:09 Can you just go into that in a little more detail? Speaker 25
5:28:12 All of these patients in V-safe data received at least one COVID vaccine, all of them. 5:28:20 And there are other studies 5:28:23 most notably published and reviewed by Nick Holscher and colleagues showing in other databases that these long COVID clinics, they're all vaccinated. 5:28:36 Now, what I believe is that, yes, if just the infection itself, it can occur, it can cause long COVID, but it's pretty unusual in my opinion. 5:28:52 In my research, it's far less than 10%. 5:28:55 So 90%, I believe, in my opinion, 90% of, quote, long COVID is vaccine injury, as we've seen the parade of these really... Speaker 17
5:29:06 I'm just going to slow us down again, because this is an important point for Canada. 5:29:10 And the reason why it's an important point for Canada is that our mainstream media, the message is that everyone knows there's death 5:29:22 and injury around, they can't hide that. 5:29:24 Like we all, regardless of what we believe is the cause, we all understand that we know people who have died. 5:29:32 Everyone knows somebody who's died and we know they shouldn't have died. 5:29:36 And everyone knows that there's injuries around them and cancer seem to be just going off the chart right now. 5:29:44 But the belief as to the cause of that, we're split in this nation. 5:29:50 So people that watch the mainstream media, the message is, yes, we've got these injuries, but it's long COVID. 5:29:58 And thank goodness for the COVID-19 vaccines that worked, so we have less long COVID. 5:30:05 And if you believe that, then ethically, you have to be against anything that would cause vaccine injury, which makes it interesting because then a lot of people that react really negatively about anything vaccine injury, 5:30:18 they're actually acting ethically based on what they believe. 5:30:22 And so if it's not true that it's vaccine injury, long COVID is, I'm sorry, if it's not true that long COVID is caused by the COVID-19 vaccine, this is a very important point for us coming together as a nation and having a discussion. 5:30:37 That's why I'm slowing you down on this because we're divided over this issue. 5:30:42 We all agree there's injuries, but you know, over half of us, a comfortable majority of Canadians, 5:30:48 believe it's the COVID-19 vaccine causing most of these injuries. 5:30:53 And a minority of us, but still a sizable minority, believes that this is caused by the COVID-19 virus. 5:31:01 And those beliefs are not reconcilable. 5:31:05 So this is really important. 5:31:06 That's why I'm slowing you down. 5:31:07 So I'd like you to explain that again, because we can't miss this one. 5:31:12 It's a key point. Speaker 25
5:31:13 Yeah, this is very important. 5:31:16 And it's not just this MIT study that is published on the V-safe data system. 5:31:24 It's and again, what they show, 1.87 percent of this 10 million people were vaccine injured. 5:31:36 that would fall into the category of long COVID as defined as significant symptoms beyond three months from the vaccination. 5:31:47 By the way, these are patients that attribute their injury to the vaccine. 5:31:54 And there are, as I mentioned, other studies by many other authors, some of whom will not come out and state that, but it's obvious in their literature, and that's reviewed very nicely by Halsher and colleagues. Speaker 17
5:32:13 Okay, so it's clearly coming out in the literature that the majority of people suffering from what is called long COVID, they're really suffering from 5:32:24 COVID-19 vaccine entry. Speaker 25
5:32:27 Absolutely, yes. Speaker 17
5:32:28 Thank you. Speaker 25
5:32:29 Yeah, that's very important. 5:32:32 Now, this is the infamous letter. 5:32:35 We talk about why is there... Speaker 22
5:32:39 Doctor, can we just have a quick follow-up on that? 5:32:42 Please. Speaker 9
5:32:43 Yes, thank you, Doctor. 5:32:44 This is very personal for me also. 5:32:48 And I'm struggling how to handle it. 5:32:53 And the reason being is because when I got the first shot of Pfizer, second one in 2021 during, we had to in order to travel back to Ottawa as an election campaign. 5:33:04 So I got shingles right away, immediately after the second one. 5:33:06 So I certainly attribute that to the vaccine. 5:33:11 I had great difficulty walking during the campaign. 5:33:14 It was excruciating. 5:33:16 And that I don't know about. 5:33:18 Okay. 5:33:19 I mean, I've just put that up. 5:33:20 I've had no sense of smell since then. 5:33:23 And so that has been, I've just attributed that to long COVID. 5:33:28 So I haven't put that towards vaccine. 5:33:29 I've just kind of put it up there. 5:33:31 And there's another significant issue, which I don't feel liberty to talk about. 5:33:34 So it's just, it just seems that there's a lot more than what people might realize as far as the injuries. 5:33:41 If it was what your data is showing. Speaker 25
5:33:44 Did you have walking issues before? Speaker 9
5:33:47 I had, not to the extent, and now I'm better, but I still, you know, there's pain. 5:33:53 But I would say I had some, not so much walking, but a little bit of feet pain years before. 5:34:00 But it was immediately afterwards, it was very painful. 5:34:04 And I had to kind of hobble around. 5:34:06 This went on for a while, but, you know, it got better. 5:34:12 Basically, and again, I'm not trying to attribute that to the vaccine. 5:34:16 I'm just saying the timing is very suspect. 5:34:19 And and particularly with these sense of smell right then and then other. 5:34:24 But again, I haven't said something I've really considered a lot. 5:34:27 I'm not trying to get a diagnosis. 5:34:28 I'm just throwing this out there. Speaker 25
5:34:31 I really consider a getting a serum. 5:34:36 anti-spike protein antibody level and seeing what that is. 5:34:39 I'd love to see that. 5:34:41 I'd love for you to get that. 5:34:45 This is the infamous, the famous threat from the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology. 5:34:54 And remember, I was a former examiner. 5:34:57 This came out September 27th, 2021. 5:34:59 And you can read it. 5:35:03 There's no data presented here. 5:35:05 But in essence, this is saying this went out to 62,000 OBGYN doctors, not only in the United States of America, all 50 states, but in six provinces of Canada and in Central America, some countries in Central America and South America. 5:35:22 And can you imagine this is basically read between the lines saying you follow our protocol, our draconian HHS protocols. 5:35:32 or you will lose your license and you will lose your accreditation. 5:35:39 This is very serious. 5:35:40 I've never seen a threat like this. 5:35:42 I was very upset. 5:35:46 I called up George Wendell, who was the executive director of 5:35:52 who I knew, it was a colleague of mine, wouldn't talk to me about this, emailed. 5:35:57 They basically threatened my license. 5:36:00 I said, okay, we'll see about that. 5:36:03 But you can see that they implicated the Federation of State Medical Boards in here. 5:36:08 They implicated the American College of Obstetricians in here. 5:36:11 They implicated the American Board of Medical Specialties in here. 5:36:15 It's right here. 5:36:17 It's right here. 5:36:17 Now they erase this and try to get it off. 5:36:20 But this is what they did. 5:36:22 And they haven't retracted it. 5:36:23 So what I did was I then I this is not going to happen. 5:36:30 And I wrote an extensive letter, did extensive analytics. 5:36:34 And I wrote this letter to each of the examiners and the board of the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology. 5:36:44 This was an extensive letter. 5:36:46 This was a 98 page letter because it included just 12 months after the rollout of the vaccine, 1019 peer reviewed medical journal references in this letter showing, demonstrating, reporting vaccine injuries or deaths reported. 5:37:06 in the medical literature. 5:37:07 So I reported all those. 5:37:08 But I also did my own analytics on the government database. 5:37:12 And there was horrible safety signals with pregnancy. 5:37:15 And I'm here to show you. 5:37:17 I'll run through these quickly. 5:37:19 But the first bar is we're just looking at 10 months. 5:37:23 This is just October of 2021. 5:37:25 You're looking at 5:37:27 20,244 deaths from COVID vaccine compared with 2000 of influenza for 30 years. 5:37:37 This is unbelievable. 5:37:40 The next slide, the same setup here. 5:37:42 You're looking at pregnancy losses, miscarriage and fetal deaths. 5:37:48 You're looking at a vast safety signal compared to influenza vaccines, even all of the other vaccines together. 5:37:56 i want to say that going back to this corruption of fauci and biden white house vivick murthy francis collins rochelle walensky the whole crew 5:38:11 They had this data. 5:38:14 If I was following their own database from every month since the vaccine rollout, six weeks after the vaccine rollout, January 31st, 2021, six weeks after the rollout, massive safety signal of pregnancy loss. 5:38:34 in the COVID-19 vaccine compared to all other vaccines. 5:38:40 So this is very disturbing. 5:38:42 And this is why I still have my license and why I still have my board certifications, because after this was published and went viral all over the world, they knew they couldn't 5:38:55 take my license away, because if they did, there'd be a lawsuit and there would be discovery. 5:39:01 This is fetal malformations, just 10 months, significant increase in fetal malformations. 5:39:07 This is our first article, multiple, you'll see co-authors, very notable co-authors, as you'll see there. 5:39:16 This was another analysis, 18 months after the rollout. Speaker 17
5:39:22 Dr. Tharp, can I just have you go back to 5:39:25 A couple of slides. 5:39:26 Back one more. 5:39:28 So this is pregnancy losses. 5:39:30 That top bar on the right is COVID-19 for 10 months. Speaker 25
5:39:36 The top bar on the right. Speaker 17
5:39:39 So on the left, 2737 COVID vaccine. 5:39:42 So 2737 COVID vaccine. Speaker 2
5:39:53 pour le vaccin de la COVID. 5:39:54 Et ensuite, c'est moins pour les autres vaccins. 5:39:58 Donc, en 10 mois, nous avions plus de bébés perdus en raison de la vaccination contre la COVID par rapport à tous les autres vaccins. 5:40:08 Oui, c'est ce que je dis. 5:40:14 Et ils le savaient. 5:40:16 Ils l'ont quand même mis de l'avant. 5:40:19 Et le Canada fait la même chose. Speaker 25
5:40:23 The Journal of the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons, this is 18 months after rollout, and we compared the adverse events, 18 of them, for the COVID-19 vaccine compared to the influenza vaccines. 5:40:43 Now, when we're, again, comparing vaccines to vaccines, you can't translate that to prevalence. 5:40:51 And that's, we see a safety signal. 5:40:54 So, again, we saw substantial, you're looking at 100 plus. 5:41:00 Again, the FDA, CDC, a safety signal is defined as a risk ratio of two, a risk ratio of two or more. 5:41:11 These aren't three or four. 5:41:13 These are hundreds or hundreds. 5:41:16 We talked about menstrual irregularities before in one of our victims before this morning. 5:41:23 Twelve hundred fold increase in abnormal menstrual periods in COVID-19 vaccines compared to other vaccines. 5:41:35 And, you know, the this is a next slide is a I won't bore you with a forest plot. 5:41:41 But again, remember the risk ratio that FDA CDC is to listen. 5:41:47 These risk ratios were so high. 5:41:51 off the chart that look at, we needed to make that X axis a logarithmic axis or those dots, the end of the dots would be in Lake Superior all the way over. 5:42:06 So we had to compress it. 5:42:08 But look at these risk ratios, whether you looked at miscarriage, fetal death, fetal growth restriction, they're all very significant. 5:42:17 This is published in that same journal 5:42:20 And the line below shows national data for stillbirth data. 5:42:28 We're about in the range of, you know, upper fives to six. 5:42:33 We're very stable. 5:42:36 But what I want to show you is that in 2020, in 2020, 5:42:43 There was actually a reduction in fetal deaths compared to the aggregation of the three prior years. 5:42:51 And, you know, that's consistent with testimony of others. 5:42:55 Again, I was a very busy. 5:42:58 I'm not just presenting data. 5:43:00 I saw 27,500 high-risk pregnancy patients in four and a half years, beginning in 2019, going to June 29th, 2023, when I was fired for speaking the truth. Speaker 17
5:43:17 Can I just point out the obvious? 5:43:19 So when the 2020 rate is 5.74, which is below the average for four years, that's when there's no vaccine to protect us. 5:43:30 If 5:43:30 If COVID-19 is going to be affecting pregnant women and pregnancies, it's going to be before the vaccine to protect us. Speaker 17
5:43:39 So that's why you stopped there, because you're going to give us another number now for when the vaccines are introduced. Speaker 25
5:43:45 Right. 5:43:46 And those are the triangles, the red triangles. 5:43:49 And this is data from Michelle Gershman in Fresno, California. 5:43:56 highly vaccinated area like Canada, very highly vaccinated. 5:44:01 And Michelle Gershman presented her data. 5:44:04 She received an email and she was used to seeing one to two stillbirths. 5:44:10 Now, miscarriages before 20 weeks, relatively common. 5:44:14 Fetal deaths 20 weeks or later, rare. 5:44:18 She was seeing on average one to two stillbirths per quarter. 5:44:24 All of a sudden, the vaccines roll out. 5:44:27 Fetal deaths are just every day, multiple times a week. 5:44:33 They get an email. 5:44:35 The nurses get an email from the nurse administrator, the head of women's services, saying, we're seeing unprecedented, never seen this before, rise in fetal deaths. 5:44:47 And we've seen 22 cases. 5:44:50 And there's probably more that went to other hospitals or didn't come through labor and delivery, went to the ER. 5:44:56 22 at a minimum. 5:44:58 22. 5:45:00 The statistical probability of that is it's nonexistent. 5:45:06 So she went on record. 5:45:08 They tried to fire her, and CHD stepped in, and she's a very verifiable, very trustworthy, I believe her. 5:45:18 It's not just Fresno, California. 5:45:22 I'm here to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, it's Canada. 5:45:26 Look at this. 5:45:28 This is your Lionsgate Hospital. 5:45:31 Vancouver, right? 5:45:33 British Columbia. 5:45:35 They have 13 stillbirths in 24 hours. 5:45:39 Now, they deny it, but they have testimony from five care providers. 5:45:46 You're going to believe Lionsgate Hospital, like Fresno Hospital or other hospitals? 5:45:55 I don't think so. 5:45:56 Not with the shenanigans that they played. 5:45:59 I had to stretch this out to seven days. 5:46:03 The statistical probability of this occurring, well, you take zero point, add 220,000 zeros. 5:46:15 This doesn't occur. 5:46:16 This is statistically improbable. 5:46:19 And it's not just over in British Columbia. 5:46:23 It was also... 5:46:25 here in Ontario. 5:46:27 I'm here to tell you, here it is. 5:46:30 Now, I'm running a little bit short. 5:46:34 Do you want me to stop here? Speaker 17
5:46:36 No, but we will pick up the pace. 5:46:38 But it's curious, wasn't there a cluster of, well, I guess it wasn't stillbirths, but baby deaths in Ottawa? Speaker 17
5:46:50 Right. 5:46:50 Okay. Speaker 25
5:46:52 I can't quantitate that because I don't, I don't, I don't, I can't verify the data, but yes, there was. Speaker 17
5:47:00 Okay. 5:47:00 So we'll, I'll just ask you to pick it up and can you finish in about five minutes and time for a question? Speaker 25
5:47:07 I'll run through. 5:47:08 This is Pfizer 5.3.6. 5:47:10 I'm sorry. 5:47:11 No, no, no. 5:47:12 Strike that. 5:47:12 This is Pfizer phase two, three trial, clinical trial of pregnant women. 5:47:17 Okay. 5:47:18 There were such adverse outcomes that they stopped the trial with only 350 patients in it. 5:47:26 Why? 5:47:27 Because they were sweating bullets because there was clinically significant increase in adverse neonatal outcomes in those babies whose mothers received the COVID-19 injection. 5:47:42 And then they buried this on, like, 5:47:47 After 200 pages of gobbledygook, meaningless stuff, so nobody would see it. 5:47:53 I found it. 5:47:54 Here's the data. 5:47:57 So this is a second article that we published. 5:48:03 Again, this is after... 5:48:06 40 months, very similar findings, except we had 37 adverse events, 37 adverse events, 27 of them during pregnancy, 10 of them in newborns. 5:48:21 This is a typical placenta that I've seen that was a classic vaccinated placenta. 5:48:27 This is probably not real meaningful to most of you. 5:48:32 And there's a series of articles that were these, I would call these white papers. 5:48:38 They are extensively cited. 5:48:42 They are first authored by a very, very brilliant attorney and a second author by myself, a maternal field medicine physician. Speaker 17
5:48:53 Dr. Thorpe, I'm going to stop you and ask a couple of questions and then turn you over to the panel. 5:48:57 But your slide presentation is going to be an exhibit. 5:49:02 But I had a question about fertility. 5:49:06 So, because you've been talking rather clearly that this was a nightmare for babies in utero, and I think also for baby death also, right, after pregnancy? Speaker 17
5:49:20 So, but what about fertility? 5:49:24 Has there been any evidence that the COVID-19 vaccine has affected fertility? Speaker 25
5:49:30 Significantly. Speaker 17
5:49:31 Can you speak about that? Speaker 25
5:49:32 Yes, very significant. 5:49:34 Well, I think one of the victims that testified here, and I spoke with her afterwards yesterday, and she was crying on my shoulder. 5:49:48 Premature menopause, right? 5:49:52 So the vaccine, and you've heard this in the Japanese biodistribution data that 5:50:00 The vaccine is concentrated in the ovaries, in the fetal life, in female fetuses and in women after birth. 5:50:11 It's concentrated. 5:50:12 It appears to kill off the ovum, the primary oocytes. 5:50:17 That's our future generation, ladies and gentlemen. 5:50:20 That's our future generation. 5:50:22 And we have studies from the Czech Republic. 5:50:27 showing a dramatic reduction in birth rates, 30%. 5:50:31 By the way, the only country in the world that has opened up their clinical database, de-identified, why hasn't everybody else done that? 5:50:40 Why did they try to hide the Pfizer 5.3.6 data for 75 years if it were safe and effective? 5:50:48 Why aren't they showing us the data? 5:50:50 Why are they hiding it? 5:50:52 There's a reason for that. 5:50:54 The other study from, actually from Turkey, suggests that in the rodent model, that the equivalent of human dose of COVID-19 vaccine kills off 60% of the primary ovarian follicles. 5:51:13 That's exactly why the Advanced Biological Research Group 5:51:18 a group of which I'm a founding member and many other five other individuals, including two other obstetricians. 5:51:26 We are trying to study that. 5:51:29 We are looking at the effect of the vaccine on ovarian reserve and looking at these stains of the tissues of placenta. 5:51:41 And guess what? 5:51:43 It's going to cost millions of dollars and nobody will fund it. 5:51:47 We've put thousands and thousands of our own hours and dollars into it. 5:51:51 It's sitting there ready to go, IRB approved, no funding. 5:51:56 Nobody wants to fund this. 5:51:58 They want to sweep it under the rug. Speaker 17
5:52:05 Did Pfizer in their original clinical trial look at pregnancy issues? Speaker 25
5:52:12 No. 5:52:13 No, not their phase one and phase two, but there were in their post-market that they did have 270 pregnant women that probably shouldn't have been enrolled, but they put them in there. Speaker 22
5:52:31 Okay, thank you. 5:52:32 Thank you, Dr. Farb. 5:52:33 I'm going to turn it over to my colleague, Mr. Watts. Speaker 23
5:52:37 Thank you. 5:52:38 Thank you, Dr. Farb. 5:52:41 From your perspective, 5:52:43 given your credentials and your research, um, I'm going to ask for, you know, some, an opinion, but it baffles my mind that we have, and I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it baffles my mind that we have such an overt, um, process by multiple, by big pharma, by, by doctors, um, 5:53:13 you know, by researchers, by governments to cover the facts. 5:53:20 And I don't understand why. 5:53:21 I mean, we're generally, the population is generally very commonsensical, you'd think. 5:53:27 And we're fed with the same data. 5:53:29 How are we arriving at such different perspectives? 5:53:32 And, you know, our prime minister, as we talked about this morning, talked about the division. 5:53:38 And he didn't talk about it. 5:53:40 He actually provided... 5:53:42 the fodder for it. 5:53:44 And being Justin Trudeau, but what was the purpose? 5:53:50 What's the purpose behind this? 5:53:52 Is it, you know, I'm confused sometimes just to try to grasp the depths of this. 5:54:03 And if it happens with this, what else is going on? Speaker 23
5:54:09 that we don't know about. 5:54:10 So from your perspective as a respected doctor and a researcher, there has to be something behind this that either I'm not seeing or I'm missing something. Speaker 25
5:54:25 Well, thank you. 5:54:26 Thank you very much for coming. 5:54:28 It's very courageous of the MPs that showed up. 5:54:31 Thank you very much. 5:54:32 And I'll say this. 5:54:36 The illegal drug cartels globally, they command a revenue stream of, I think, $0.5 trillion a year. 5:54:49 The pharmaceutical cartel engenders, they enjoy a revenue stream 3.4x, 3.4 times $1.7 trillion a year. 5:55:00 That's a lot of money. 5:55:06 And that's a lot of power. 5:55:08 And they control the narrative. 5:55:13 It's very powerful. 5:55:16 I don't have time to go through the rest of these articles, but it's detailed how that was done through a variety of mechanisms. 5:55:25 In this particular article you'll see on there, we actually broke this charade of the COVID-19 community core. 5:55:34 which the government endowed with hundreds of millions and billions of dollars to protect 5:55:42 covertly co-opt all of the influencers. 5:55:46 So the pharmaceutical cartel is very powerful. 5:55:52 Now, I can't speak to their narratives, but I do know that they're very powerful. 5:55:57 They control the government in terms of the government. 5:56:02 They control the government oversight. 5:56:08 They control the medical journals. 5:56:10 Obviously, where's the mainstream media? 5:56:13 They control the mainstream media. 5:56:15 We also have a white paper on that as well. 5:56:19 By the way, anybody that wants a copy of this presentation, it's heavily cited. 5:56:25 Email me at jathorpe at bellsouth.net, jathorpe at bellsouth.net, or go to my website, drjamesthorpe.com. 5:56:35 Okay. Speaker 23
5:56:39 So as a follow-up to that, and thank you for sharing your perspective, you're suggesting that money is a driver, potentially power is a driver, but we're talking about experiments on population. Speaker 25
5:57:05 Yes, we are. Speaker 23
5:57:06 And mass. Speaker 25
5:57:07 Yes, we are. 5:57:09 Yes, we are. 5:57:10 The study by Schmeling and colleagues showed that 30% of the individuals that got the original vaccine, 30% had zero, nothing at the injection site. 5:57:26 Absolutely nothing. 5:57:28 They got a little prick. 5:57:30 There's no redness, nothing, no muscle aches, no fever, no pain. 5:57:34 And there's a lot of experts that have varying opinions on that. 5:57:39 I can tell you that many experts I know believe that that was a saline injection and that was a mass experimentation. 5:57:48 There are others that would suggest, well, they did a bait. 5:57:52 We know they did a bait and switch experiment. 5:57:55 They used in their clinical trials before the rollout, they used a highly sophisticated, careful vaccine manufacturing process. 5:58:04 Remember, it required really low temperatures, special transport. 5:58:09 Well, as soon as it was rolled out, completely different manufacturing process, which is very illegal. 5:58:18 And so others would suggest that it was just variation in batch content. Speaker 23
5:58:25 So if I may, I'm thinking about how we, I know I've seen some media coverage, not mainstream, obviously, but of what U.S. congressmen and senators are doing down there to try and bring this to a head. 5:58:47 And I think that's kind of the purpose behind us. 5:58:49 We want to hear from the victims and the families who have suffered 5:58:55 as a result of these injuries and from the medical professionals and researchers, but how do we move forward? 5:59:06 I'm talking about Canada. 5:59:08 So your perspective in the US might be a little bit different, but how do we move forward with the system that we have here to properly address the injuries and then make sure it doesn't happen again? Speaker 25
5:59:24 We do exactly what you're doing, what you're doing, what you're doing, what our chairperson, Dean Allison, is doing. 5:59:38 We talk about it. 5:59:42 We discuss it openly. 5:59:44 We have open discussion. 5:59:50 We be honest with our citizens. 5:59:53 We, you know, I'm upset at the doctors. 5:59:58 I'm upset at my colleagues, most of them. 6:00:01 I'm very upset at them because they betrayed their patients. 6:00:07 There was no informed consent. 6:00:10 You go and you open up the package insert, it's blank. 6:00:13 You can't give informed consent when you don't know what's in a vial. 6:00:17 And the doctors were forced to do that if they wanted to collect their paychecks. 6:00:23 And so I'm very upset at the doctors that did that. 6:00:26 They had the responsibility to honor their relationship with God that would honor their relationship with their patient. 6:00:39 Their paycheck be damned. Speaker 22
6:00:45 Thank you. 6:00:47 We're almost out of time, but just one more final question here. Speaker 9
6:00:51 Yeah, thank you. 6:00:54 Just to clarify, in the States, corporations, I believe, can give donations directly to candidates. 6:01:05 In Canada, we don't have that. 6:01:08 The corporations aren't supposed to. 6:01:10 They don't give directly to the candidates and to parties. 6:01:15 But there's still, you know, we found that there was a real political reason for 6:01:21 in Canada for having, I guess, really fear, I guess, promoting it because it really helped the governing party as far as their polling numbers too. 6:01:33 So they were able to use it. 6:01:34 So I'm just going to what Glenn said about the, you know, I had written those questions. 6:01:42 It seems like a lot of this ties in with money and power. 6:01:46 Do you want to elaborate? 6:01:48 And then I'm going to throw this in right here as a sidebar. 6:01:51 You mentioned about the impact of the vaccines upon the female reproductive system, ovaries. 6:01:59 What about the males? 6:02:00 So there's two little questions there. Speaker 25
6:02:02 Easy. 6:02:02 Males, same thing. 6:02:04 The sperm count dramatically reduces from the male component. 6:02:12 EDS, erectile dysfunction, massively increased in young, young 20 year olds. 6:02:18 Right. 6:02:18 So I've had many couples that with regard to the first question, you know, 70 percent of our Congress has taken money from Pfizer. 6:02:30 Now, I'm not familiar with your system, but I do know that your former prime minister had a very significant financial interest in. 6:02:40 holdings of the vaccine manufacturers. 6:02:44 I do know that. 6:02:45 So at the end of the day, it's evil. 6:02:52 It's driven by money, power, and greed. 6:02:56 And it's really a spiritual battle. Speaker 22
6:03:01 Thank you very much. 6:03:02 And once again, I just mentioned that, Dr. Thorpe, it took quite a lengthy amount of time to get here because of where you live and 6:03:11 planes, trains and automobiles. 6:03:12 So we thank you for taking that time. 6:03:14 We thank you for being here for a couple of days, you know, sit in the meetings as well. 6:03:19 And so thank you for your testimony today. Speaker 25
6:03:21 Thank you for having me. 6:03:22 God bless. Speaker 22
6:03:24 God bless Canada. Speaker 23
6:03:26 Thank you. Speaker 17
6:03:30 So our next witness is Mark Chapman. 6:03:34 Mark, will you take the Bible in your right hand? 6:03:38 Mark Chapman, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God? 6:03:45 Yes, I do. 6:03:47 I'd just like to introduce you to the inquiry, although I did learn, just because you were sending emails to me and I'm overwhelmed with them right now, that you were in the military also. 6:03:58 Yes, sir, 30 years. 6:03:59 30 years? 6:04:00 And I assume that was as a helicopter pilot? 6:04:03 Pretty much. 6:04:04 Okay, so we'll get to that in a second. 6:04:06 Well, let's get to it right now. 6:04:07 Okay. 6:04:08 Tell us about that. 6:04:08 Apparently you did search and rescue Labradors. Speaker 21
6:04:12 No, I didn't fly the Labradors. 6:04:15 Flying was really my main activity. 6:04:18 And I actually soloed my first airplane at 15 years old. 6:04:23 I had a pilot's license before I had a driver's license for a car. 6:04:27 I joined the Air Force right out of high school. 6:04:30 I ended up flying the Sea King helicopter with the Navy. 6:04:35 I flew that aircraft for 25 years. 6:04:38 I had two sessions in the military. 6:04:39 I did 20 years and I got out. 6:04:42 For three years, I flew the Nova Scotia Air Ambulance. 6:04:44 I brought the very first case to the roof of the Halifax Infirmary. 6:04:49 As the subsequent Gulf Wars were bubbling up, I got a phone call and they asked me to come back. 6:04:54 So I consented to do that. 6:04:56 Went back in for about another nine years. 6:04:58 I was a reservist for the time I was on the Air Ambulance. 6:05:01 So altogether, it's about 30 years time served. 6:05:05 Can you speak a little louder, and we're going to move the mic closer. 6:05:08 Of course, I deployed often, including the Middle East and all the adventures that were going on over there. 6:05:16 Eventually, time came to move on to something else. 6:05:21 Turned out to be flying again, and I was hired to fly heavy helicopters in the offshore oil and gas industry. 6:05:28 And for a period of time, I was flying the longest offshore flight on Earth. 6:05:34 from St. John's to the Flemish Cap. 6:05:37 Out and back is about 30% of the way to Europe. 6:05:41 Used to brief the passengers that we're going 300 miles out. 6:05:44 The space station is only 235 miles out. 6:05:48 So that was kind of to put that in perspective for them. Speaker 17
6:05:51 To make them feel more comfortable that there's no landing place out there. 6:05:55 So, well, first of all, I'd like to thank you for your service. Speaker 21
6:06:00 Thank you very much. Speaker 17
6:06:02 You're 66 years old. 6:06:04 One of the things that many people won't know is that pilots, they have to get regular physicals, complete physicals. 6:06:14 And you have 47 years of documented good health before the vaccine, including cardiac health as an airline transport graded commercial pilot, master mariner. 6:06:28 and commercial vehicle operator, which were all valid licenses at the time of your vaccination. 6:06:33 Absolutely. 6:06:34 So like you're a driver of all things. 6:06:37 If it had an engine, I wanted to do it. 6:06:39 Right. 6:06:39 Okay. 6:06:41 And you were also very physically active. 6:06:43 Like when we were, I was interviewing you, I appreciate that during COVID you came back from time, but you were telling me as soon as the temperature dropped to like 32, 32, you'd be out there 12, 15 K. 6:06:56 four or five times a week. 6:06:58 And the point I'm just trying to make is you were a very active person. 6:07:01 You didn't have pre-existing medical conditions to explain any of this. 6:07:10 And then also, perhaps, David, did you get the Air Force photos too? 6:07:18 So let's just walk through some photos of how you were. 6:07:22 So now I appreciate this one's, 6:07:24 you know, more than a year ago. 6:07:26 So tell us about this, though. 6:07:28 This is a beautiful photograph. Speaker 21
6:07:29 This would be during my second stint with the Air Force while I was in a staff and flying positions. 6:07:37 And about that time, I was the senior air officer in the Atlantic Fleet. Speaker 17
6:07:45 If we were having a different inquiry, I'm sure you'd have some super stories about going out in storms and sea kings. 6:07:50 Absolutely. 6:07:52 But we can't do that today. 6:07:53 So can we go to the next? 6:07:56 Tell us about this. 6:07:57 This is in Thailand. 6:07:58 That'd be in 2020 in Thailand. 6:08:00 So 2020, this is important because you look pretty happy and you look pretty healthy here. Speaker 21
6:08:04 Right. 6:08:05 Now, I had gone back to Thailand. 6:08:06 I was working in Thailand as my last company I worked for. 6:08:09 And I went over in early March. 6:08:13 And then Thailand closed the airspace to the country for 10 months. 6:08:18 I didn't leave Thailand for 10 months. 6:08:20 This is about in the middle of that period. 6:08:23 This photograph here, my buddy Banchard next to me here had just had his birthday. 6:08:28 So our two ages added together meant this was the last day we could fly together because that's how the company controlled the age of pilots that were in the aircraft, their ages combined. 6:08:39 had a maximum number it could be so that we were sort of celebrating our last opportunity. 6:08:45 So everything was good. 6:08:48 And at the end of 2020, I came home. Speaker 17
6:08:52 We'll just move through a couple of photographs just so people can, so this is during COVID, right? 6:08:57 Yes, this is during COVID. 6:08:59 You followed the mask mandate here. 6:09:01 You betcha. Speaker 21
6:09:02 And so flying out to the platforms, you had to be masked up in one method or another. 6:09:09 Right. Speaker 17
6:09:10 So flying to resupply oil rigs. 6:09:14 With people. 6:09:15 Okay. 6:09:15 So it's because there's people in there. 6:09:17 There are 19 people in the back, yeah. 6:09:18 Oh, my gosh. Speaker 21
6:09:19 Okay. 6:09:20 So this was the protocol. 6:09:26 And if you didn't do that, you had to wear two or three cloth and paper masks. 6:09:30 But that one worked pretty well. 6:09:32 So next photograph, David. 6:09:35 And when I wasn't working in aviation, which is a touring business, I do six weeks away and six weeks off. 6:09:43 I did this. 6:09:44 I was the skipper of the Harbor Hopper in Halifax. 6:09:47 There were only about six people in the world could do that job because you needed a 60-ton master mariner ship captain license and a bus driver over 24 passenger license to operate that machine, which is amphibious. 6:10:01 It weighs 10 tons and it's wider than a traffic lane. 6:10:04 And we do half an hour in the city and half an hour in the harbor. 6:10:08 So if it floated or flew or drove, I was licensed to do air, land, and sea. 6:10:18 That's really quite spectacular. Speaker 17
6:10:20 And I think that's our last photo, isn't it? 6:10:23 Okay, let's keep going. Speaker 21
6:10:26 That's now. 6:10:27 You see I'm sitting on a walker. Speaker 14
6:10:30 And that's... Speaker 15
6:10:35 That's the plan. Speaker 17
6:10:38 So you didn't have COVID, but you get three shots. 6:10:45 I did. 6:10:46 And the first two, really, there was nothing of notice. 6:10:50 But your third was December 20th, 2021, all three Pfizer. 6:10:55 Can you share with us what happened? Speaker 21
6:10:57 The very next day, after the third one, my Apple Watch went off. 6:11:05 and said I was in atrial fibrillation and tachycardia. 6:11:09 The next day? 6:11:10 The very next day. Speaker 14
6:11:11 And I knew immediately that that was the end of all of those medicals. Speaker 21
6:11:18 So there's a time gap before you have to do another medical. 6:11:23 So I could continue until the next medical came along. 6:11:27 And I worked through 2020 6:11:32 primarily on the Harbour Hopper because I couldn't get back to Thailand. 6:11:36 And we operated that machine with plexiglass shields between the seats, which is ridiculous in an outdoor machine. 6:11:43 But anyway, that's what you had to do or the government wouldn't allow it to operate. 6:11:47 But during the year, things started to go wrong. 6:11:51 And it was the cardiac effect. 6:11:54 And I went to see the cardiologists and they couldn't explain any of it. 6:11:57 I saw a cardiologist who specialized in heart rhythms 6:12:02 And I told him that my heart rate will not accelerate under stress, but it does accelerate when I'm not stressed. 6:12:10 And he said, well, he'd never heard of that before, and he didn't know what that was. 6:12:13 But that exists to this day. 6:12:15 I get tachycardia almost daily, and I still get atrial fibrillation as notified on my wrist. 6:12:22 Just this morning, I received a notification from my Apple Health Act that there's been an abrupt change in my heart rate. 6:12:30 I don't know what that's about yet. 6:12:31 I have to look into that. 6:12:33 And then during the year, I started to get tired. 6:12:37 You know, the Harbor Hopper is a big machine. 6:12:39 You kind of have to muscle it around. 6:12:42 And I would get tired just walking up the stairs to get on the darn thing. 6:12:45 And I'd say, what the heck is going on here? 6:12:48 What is wrong? 6:12:49 And I would, at the end of a day, it would be 14 hours, maybe eight tours. 6:12:54 I'd be completely whipped, which was new and different. 6:13:00 And at the same time, and I'm suffering from it now, my mental ability to organize thought started to fade. 6:13:10 When I was in aviation, I had, for two companies, built them complete crew resource management programs, put together a 300-page fully cited textbook for that, and instructed that course. 6:13:24 During this summer period, a colleague and I went to Greenwood 6:13:29 where I was volunteering to do that kind of training for free to private pilots because they have to do it as well. 6:13:36 And I was giving a lesson on critical incident stress reaction. 6:13:43 A presentation that I wrote that I had given many times. 6:13:48 And when I stood on the stage and clicked the first slide and saw the outline, I didn't recognize it. 6:13:55 And I didn't know what was in the next slide. 6:13:58 I'd had enough experience teaching that kind of material that I could click to the next slide, quickly look at it and fake it as if I had known what was coming. 6:14:09 And I got through that and I went to my colleague, Mike, and I said, Mike, I can't do this anymore. 6:14:15 It's just not working. 6:14:16 I mean, I wrote that presentation and I couldn't give it effectively in my mind. 6:14:24 Short-term memory suffers. 6:14:28 I wrote headings down here because I just have a hard time putting it all together. Speaker 17
6:14:31 And I'll help you with things. 6:14:32 So, like, even on the brain fog, you told me about you're driving across the bridge to Dartmouth. 6:14:39 And you get on the other side, you even forget why you were going. 6:14:42 I got on the other side. Speaker 21
6:14:43 I said, I can't remember why I came over here. 6:14:45 I'm not lost. 6:14:46 I know where I was. 6:14:47 But it's like, what did I come over here for? 6:14:49 So I pull off the road. 6:14:50 I look at my calendar. 6:14:50 I go, oh, I'm supposed to go to the pharmacy. 6:14:53 Okay. 6:14:54 Off we go. 6:14:55 But that kind of thing would happen, or I'd go down a street that I'd driven on for 25 years, and it was like the first time. 6:15:03 And that's a little frightening. 6:15:08 Right? Speaker 17
6:15:09 I want to pull you back to this chronic fatigue, because you're talking about how, you know, on the Harbor Hopper, basically even walking up the stairs, you know, it's like, what the heck? 6:15:20 Because, I mean, you were walking 12, 15k, and 6:15:23 And all of a sudden, you're wiped out by the end of the shift. 6:15:26 You were telling me on an earlier interview that even last month, you ended up passing out a couple of times. Speaker 21
6:15:32 Can you share with us about that? 6:15:33 My wife has picked me up off the floor five times this summer. 6:15:38 I have such limited metabolic reserve that if I get a cold or the flu, that's all it takes to wipe me out. 6:15:48 And I had three times where I completely passed out and hit the floor. 6:15:53 And it's pretty confusing when you come to and realize that your face is pressed up against the floor and that you're horizontal and your wife is trying to pick you up off the floor. 6:16:05 And that happened five times this summer. 6:16:09 The reserve is gone. 6:16:11 My metabolic reserves are erased. 6:16:15 As I went through this year, 2020, I started to get, when I heard somebody testify here yesterday, I think, 6:16:22 described his legs as being a drunk man's legs. 6:16:25 That's exactly what I told my doctor. 6:16:26 I said, I have drunk legs. 6:16:29 I don't walk correctly anymore. 6:16:31 My gait is totally messed up. 6:16:34 At the same time, I have gross motor trouble here. 6:16:39 I'm surprised I haven't knocked this glass of water over. 6:16:42 That happens all the time. 6:16:45 Or I'll burn my hands because I can't feel the heat on a stove. 6:16:51 That, coupled with my memory and cognitive issues, difficult to focus. 6:16:58 And so I tend to jump from task to task and not finishing any of them. 6:17:02 And that has a truly dangerous side effect. 6:17:06 I always forget to turn off the stove. 6:17:09 I know I forget to turn off the stove, but I still forget to turn off the stove because my brain jumps from the food is cooked, the job is done. 6:17:19 It's not done. 6:17:21 So I don't recognize their risk and I leave it on. 6:17:25 Or I'll get something from the refrigerator and when I've got it in my hand, the job is done. 6:17:30 Don't remember to close the door. 6:17:32 This is not normal for me. 6:17:36 I was at the peak of my aviation game. 6:17:40 I was training people to fly those helicopters in flight simulators. 6:17:46 I was a flight simulator test pilot at CAE for the S-92 project. 6:17:51 I was qualified in five countries to train people to fly the S-92 helicopter. 6:17:56 I've flown, I've operated and trained people in every S-92 flight simulator in the world. 6:18:02 Lafayette, West Palm Beach, Farnborough, Aberdeen, and Brunei. 6:18:09 They built another one since then, it's in St. John's. 6:18:12 But to do that, you have to function at about 140% 6:18:19 of the capacity of the aviators that you're training. 6:18:22 Because they're busy doing their thing. 6:18:24 You have to control the scenario, be ready to critique their performance, operate the simulator, know what's coming next, and so on and so forth. 6:18:34 So it demands a tremendous amount of organizational power. 6:18:37 And I've lost it. 6:18:39 It's gone. Speaker 17
6:18:40 Can I bring up another thing? 6:18:42 Because you also deal with chronic pain. 6:18:46 I do. Speaker 21
6:18:48 Somebody here said they had tramadol. 6:18:50 I have tramadol. 6:18:51 It's in my bag right there. 6:18:53 I have metoprolol as well because if I get trachycardia, I need to take. 6:18:57 I get chronic pain. 6:18:59 I have a hard time sitting still. 6:19:02 The pain is from the ears to the toes. 6:19:06 And it's just like the whole body is hurting. 6:19:09 There are many nights I'm up at midnight because I just can't lie there anymore. 6:19:15 And I have to get up. Speaker 17
6:19:16 And this is basically daily, so you'll be in pain now. Speaker 21
6:19:19 I am, absolutely. 6:19:22 I feel like I'm sitting on a tree trunk. 6:19:24 I'm not. 6:19:25 I'm sitting on a cushion and a chair, but it feels like I'm sitting on a piece of wood. 6:19:31 You know, my feet are numb. 6:19:34 I can't feel them at all, except for the times when they feel like they're freezing and burning and hurting all at the same time, which occurs occasionally. 6:19:46 And I also get somebody else mentioned, uh, muscle contractions. 6:19:50 I'll get a random muscle in my body. 6:19:53 We'll decide it's time to fully contract and stay that way. 6:19:58 I do one finger might be a calf might be the side of my head. 6:20:03 And that muscle will go to instantly to full contraction. 6:20:07 And you can't release. 6:20:09 You have to take something like a flexor to try to get it to give up. 6:20:14 And, uh, 6:20:14 And those are random. 6:20:17 There's no way to predict them. 6:20:20 And they're not that infrequent. 6:20:24 And, you know, so the evidence is circumstantial. 6:20:28 I started having trouble the next day. 6:20:31 I think that's pretty seriously plausible connection. 6:20:36 But all of these things that have gone crazy, it's like a kaleidoscope of symptoms that I have. 6:20:44 I have gastric trouble. 6:20:49 For some unknown reason, my GI tract will go into turbo mode at the most inappropriate times. 6:20:57 And that's a problem, right? 6:20:59 Because it now wants to get rid of everything. Speaker 14
6:21:04 Shall I talk about this summer? Speaker 21
6:21:07 I had on the 27th of June this year, 6:21:13 sitting reading email and i suddenly felt really tremendously bad within 15 minutes i was in huge abdominal pain and nausea i spent the night in the bathroom my wife found me on the floor in the morning by that time i was passing great red blood we called 8-1-1 they said call 9-1-1 we went downtown in the ambulance 6:21:43 got downtown, and half a day they said that they had unexplained thickening of the colon, and they didn't know why, but they were going to open up and have a look. 6:21:55 So they opened me up, I looked inside, they didn't do very much else, and they closed me back up and sent me to the IMCU. Speaker 14
6:22:05 I was there for four days, and in the middle of that, Speaker 21
6:22:12 I texted my wife. 6:22:15 I said, Sharon, you need to consider the possibility of my death, as I didn't think I was going to get out of there. 6:22:25 So after four days there, they sent me to the VG Hospital to recover, and that's where I discovered I had a paralyzed right leg. 6:22:34 Couldn't walk, couldn't stand up. 6:22:36 It took me two weeks before I could stand up and move enough for them to let me out of there. 6:22:42 I got home and was being seen by the Victorian Order of Nurses in home care, wound care. 6:22:49 They finally discharged me from VON care. 6:22:54 The very next day, I had chest pain, 10 out of 10. 6:23:00 I didn't know whether that was a heart attack, a collapsed lung, or an aneurysm. 6:23:06 Back in the ambulance, back downtown, after a day in the ER, they said, 6:23:12 Your gallbladder has become inflamed and thickened. 6:23:16 That sounds just like what had happened to the colon. 6:23:20 So they scheduled me for an OR to get that out. 6:23:22 Three days later, they took that out of me. 6:23:25 Now, my visit to the surgeon from the first event, she said I had something that she would call an ischemic colon, which means the blood flow to your colon is blocked off. 6:23:38 Well, why was that? 6:23:40 She doesn't know. 6:23:42 Will it happen again? 6:23:44 She doesn't know. 6:23:46 It may have been a clot. 6:23:49 And what might have saved me was I'm on blood thinners for life because of the atrial fibrillation. 6:23:56 So if you have AFib, you can form a clot in your heart. 6:23:58 And if they cardiovert you, it can bust out and hit you in the brain and give you a stroke. 6:24:03 It might have been that blood thinner that saved me from the ischemic colon because they were presuming it was necrotizing. 6:24:12 So they just basically put me back together and let me recover. 6:24:17 What's next? 6:24:19 No idea. 6:24:21 I won't be surprised whatever comes next. 6:24:25 It's just one thing after another, after another. Speaker 22
6:24:29 Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for your service, first of all, and serving our country. 6:24:36 My question, you know, in the area of flying and pilots, it's a 6:24:42 It's a small fraternity. 6:24:44 I know that during COVID, I heard from pilots, pilots concerned about taking the vaccine, pilots that actually were injured from it. 6:24:51 My question, and I realize you're not a statistician, but anecdotally, do you know of commercial pilots, you know, people you know in the business that have had the same issues as you? 6:25:00 I mean, I've heard this, but you don't have personal stories. Speaker 21
6:25:04 There was a period of time where Transport Canada would settle during COVID for a telephone interview for the medical office. 6:25:11 There's no ECG done there. 6:25:13 There were pilots that died of heart failure after the COVID thing got rolled out in the United States when it collapsed in Canada. 6:25:24 They had to very carefully look at whether the existing cardiac standard was going to be doable after COVID came out because that might eliminate almost everybody. 6:25:40 So it's definitely a problem, for sure. Speaker 22
6:25:44 Is that because I have heard we've had a shortage of pilots, commercial pilots. 6:25:50 And then I realize under temporary foreign workers, certain airlines are trying to bring more pilots in. 6:25:56 But I was just kind of curious. 6:25:57 Go ahead. Speaker 21
6:25:59 Yeah, it did have a big effect. 6:26:03 And, you know, like many of the other people that we've heard from, I didn't want to take this stuff. 6:26:10 And I took it. 6:26:12 My wife's a nurse. 6:26:14 She was administering it. 6:26:17 And I didn't want her to take it, but she had to do that in order to work. 6:26:22 And I had to take it in order to drive that Harbour Hopper. 6:26:25 So I got it. Speaker 14
6:26:28 I got all three from my wife. 6:26:32 That happened to be the way that turned out. Speaker 21
6:26:35 And so I don't know where we go from here. 6:26:39 In terms of my chronic fatigue, I can walk one aisle of the grocery store and back. 6:26:49 That's a lot less than 15K at 32 degrees. 6:26:53 I have an electric scooter to get around. 6:26:58 I use a walker. 6:27:02 This morning, I arrived with the walker on Wellington Street side. 6:27:06 They wanted me to walk around to the other side. 6:27:09 I told him I won't be able to do that in time to get here. 6:27:13 So I would have to stop, plot, and rest. 6:27:17 I get exhausted wrapping a Christmas present or having a shower or even eating. 6:27:27 And have difficulty sometimes manipulating the utensils. 6:27:32 So the world is different in a big way. Speaker 22
6:27:37 We thank you very much for coming in today and sharing your story with us. Speaker 21
6:27:41 Well, thank you very much for setting this up. 6:27:43 It's remarkable. Speaker 22
6:27:44 Thank you. Speaker 14
6:27:45 Thanks so much. Speaker 17
6:28:00 Our next witness is Crystal Dunham. 6:28:04 Crystal, can you take the Bible in your right hand, please? 6:28:19 Crystal Dunham, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 6:28:25 So I'll be loud. Speaker 17
6:28:28 I'd like to introduce you to the inquiry. 6:28:31 You are 48 years of age. 6:28:34 You have three boys, all adults now. 6:28:38 You were a personal support worker for adults with severe mental and physical disabilities. 6:28:44 And pre-vaccine, you had perfect health. 6:28:50 You know, you had anxiety touch and go and you were on a hypothyroid medication, but those have nothing to do with what happened. 6:29:00 You enjoyed hiking or camping, fishing, going for long walks, rollerblading, kayaking, exploring, zip lining, aerial park, swimming, skating, anything outdoors. 6:29:12 In fact, your list was surprising to me. 6:29:16 You were very physically fit and active. 6:29:19 And your sons used to joke that you were in better shape than they were because you were the one pushing them. 6:29:27 So can you share with us what your vaccine experience was? Speaker 3
6:29:36 After I got the first one. 6:29:38 I was perfectly fine. 6:29:40 I didn't even have a sore arm, nothing. 6:29:43 After I got the second one, within 24 hours, I woke up and I just, my full skin, every piece of skin on my body was like I was getting peeled. 6:29:54 It was like, 6:29:56 if you fall off your bike and you get really bad road rash, it felt like that head to toe. 6:30:00 And my bones, like you could feel your bones felt like they were melting, you know? 6:30:07 And that was within 24 hours. 6:30:10 By the two week mark, I had gone back to work and my right leg was hurting. 6:30:17 So I was talking with one of my colleagues. Speaker 17
6:30:19 Can I just slow you down? 6:30:20 Because you were describing 6:30:23 it feeling like your skin was being peeled off. 6:30:28 And I don't understand what you mean by that. 6:30:31 Can you try to describe that? Speaker 3
6:30:34 The worst sunburn you've ever had and add road rash to that and repeat. 6:30:41 It was the worst pain I've ever felt. 6:30:44 I've never felt anything like that. 6:30:46 Like it's even hard to describe the brutality of it. 6:30:50 It was the worst thing I've ever felt. Speaker 17
6:30:53 And is this all over? Speaker 3
6:30:54 It was full. 6:30:55 Yeah. 6:30:56 I sat on the side of my bed because I had to go to work that night. 6:30:59 I sat on the side of my bed and I cried. 6:31:01 Like I didn't even know how I was going to put on clothes. Speaker 17
6:31:04 Well, so you couldn't even lay down because it was too painful. Speaker 3
6:31:07 Yeah, I couldn't do anything. 6:31:08 So I had to get dressed and go to work. 6:31:10 It was the day before my vacation started. 6:31:12 So part of our policy and procedures is we weren't allowed to call in sick like the day before you're going on vacation. Speaker 17
6:31:20 Even if you're sick. Speaker 3
6:31:21 Yeah, so I had no choice but to go into work and I wasn't able to do my duties that night. 6:31:29 I was able to do the residence checks and stuff like that, but I wasn't able to do the cooking or the cleaning or any kind of anything like that. Speaker 17
6:31:38 Okay, so you go to work and you're literally, I was going to say on fire, but that's not what you're describing. 6:31:45 You're describing like a huge sunburn and like 6:31:48 Road rash at the same time. 6:31:51 So like, you know, when you get a really bad skin and over a scrape and over a large area, it's kind of like weeping. 6:31:58 Is it that type of pain? Speaker 17
6:32:00 But over your entire body? 6:32:01 All of it. 6:32:02 And then you also described that it felt like your bones were melting. 6:32:08 Can you try and express that to us? Speaker 3
6:32:13 It's very difficult. 6:32:15 It felt as though... 6:32:17 I was on fire, but on the inside and it wasn't muscular. 6:32:23 It was like, I feel it in my bones. 6:32:26 It was very distinct. Speaker 17
6:32:29 That was painful too? Speaker 17
6:32:32 Okay. 6:32:33 So you're, you're feeling this pain really in your bones and you're feeling it on your skin. 6:32:39 You described to us that you're sitting on the bed and crying, which tells us that the physical distress was so great. 6:32:48 you cross that weeping threshold where you have no choice but to weep. Speaker 3
6:32:51 Yeah. 6:32:52 And my last son, I had him with no epidural or anything like that. 6:32:56 And I didn't cry in pain. 6:32:58 This I did. 6:33:00 So it was. Speaker 17
6:33:02 So how, how is it you managed to go to work that day? Speaker 3
6:33:05 I didn't have a choice. Speaker 17
6:33:06 Okay. 6:33:08 So, but you're not able to do a whole lot. 6:33:11 What, what happens after that then? 6:33:14 So. Speaker 3
6:33:15 I was on vacation. 6:33:16 So I spent four or five days, I guess, like in that kind of pain. 6:33:23 So it was, and as that, like as the skin pain started to resolve, my right leg started to hurt. 6:33:33 So it was like kind of blended one into the other. 6:33:35 And then that's when I spoke to a colleague and she said, like, 6:33:42 could it be like maybe a blood clot or something like that? 6:33:45 Because she knew I had, it was about two weeks in by then. 6:33:49 And, um, I said, well, I didn't even think of that, you know? 6:33:52 So I went to the urgent care to see, and he said he didn't think that that's what it was. 6:33:58 So sent me, sent me home. 6:34:00 And with, as that started to resolve, my left knee started to feel swollen and that's where the problem is at. 6:34:10 It, um, 6:34:12 I developed CRPS. 6:34:13 It's complex regional pain syndrome. 6:34:17 I'm in constant agony all the time. 6:34:22 I cancel plans all the time. 6:34:26 If this wasn't this today, I wouldn't have been here today. 6:34:28 I would be at home in my bed. 6:34:34 I have to order in my groceries. 6:34:36 I can't do anything. 6:34:37 I can't do anything at all anymore. 6:34:39 It's Speaker 17
6:34:41 Okay, so I just, I want to stick with your left knee for a second, because when you say knee, it's kind of like mid-thigh to mid-calf, so you're really talking about half your leg. 6:34:52 Yeah. 6:34:54 My understanding is you feel pressure on there, there's temperature changes, it gets cold, but also the texture of your skin changes. Speaker 3
6:35:03 Yeah, it's, my leg is pretty much purple most of the time. 6:35:08 If I'm standing there, you 6:35:10 You would think that you're looking at two separate people. 6:35:13 It doesn't look like it's like my legs don't look like they're on the same individual there. Speaker 17
6:35:19 And my understanding is also is that the skin really can't tolerate anything touching it. Speaker 17
6:35:26 So like even wearing clothes is painful. 6:35:28 Yes. 6:35:28 You're in pain right now. Speaker 3
6:35:29 I'm suffering today. Speaker 17
6:35:32 Right. 6:35:32 Because you probably haven't taken pain meds because you're testifying, right? Speaker 3
6:35:36 I don't take pain medication. 6:35:37 I take Lyrica. 6:35:39 And so that's Tylenol. Speaker 17
6:35:46 No, I'm glad I asked because, you know, you're sitting across the table and you look perfectly fine, but you're in an enormous amount of pain right now. Speaker 3
6:35:55 Yeah. 6:35:58 Last year? 6:35:59 Two years ago. 6:36:00 It would have been two years ago, I guess, huh? 6:36:02 Coming up on two years, I broke my femur in one of my falls. 6:36:06 I've lacerated my face. 6:36:08 I've had to have reconstructive dental surgery because I've smashed my teeth in from falling. 6:36:14 I went to grab my cat and I ended up just in a seated position where you're supposed to be able to bend your legs and sit cross-legged. 6:36:25 I landed like that. 6:36:26 I broke my femur. 6:36:27 I cracked my femur. 6:36:29 So it's Speaker 17
6:36:33 Right, so you've lost some real physical control. 6:36:35 I have brain fog. Speaker 3
6:36:40 I have memory loss. Speaker 17
6:36:45 Let's talk about the effects. 6:36:46 So you basically walk with crutches now, right? 6:36:49 Yeah. 6:36:49 Like the ones that kind of cup your elbows. Speaker 23
6:36:52 I saw you earlier. Speaker 17
6:36:52 Yeah. 6:36:54 And self-care is really difficult now, isn't it? 6:36:57 Yeah. 6:36:58 So you told me earlier... 6:37:03 and I can't imagine having to plan kind of your day, but you said two or three days could go by before you might even be able to shower. 6:37:14 So, and part of this is just because if you're having a flare up, like the pain is off the chart and water on your skin is going to be too painful for you. Speaker 3
6:37:27 Some days, like when I feel like I can shower even, 6:37:32 just the water flowing down my leg will trigger the flare to go right off the charts. 6:37:38 So when I first started physio, she told me early on, she said, you need to really separate your life into what you need to do and what you want to do. 6:37:52 So do you need to shower today or do you want to shower today? 6:37:55 Do you need to do the dishes today or do you want to do the dishes today? 6:38:00 So I really have to juggle things like that. 6:38:04 And even with the best laid plans, I might, okay, I'm going to do X, Y, Z today. 6:38:10 Well, 10 minutes later, the pain's off the chart. 6:38:14 I can't plan anything. 6:38:15 I can't maintain a schedule. 6:38:16 I can't sleep. 6:38:17 I can't work. 6:38:18 I can't like, I'm basically in house, you know, by myself. 6:38:24 So it's, it's very difficult to do anything. 6:38:28 Yeah. Speaker 14
6:38:32 My understanding is sometimes you can't stand up to cook a meal. Speaker 15
6:38:36 Yeah. 6:38:38 Most of the time. Speaker 17
6:38:41 So you've got a limited amount of time each day you can even be up. Speaker 17
6:38:46 So you spend a large part of your day sitting or in bed. Speaker 3
6:38:49 Yeah. 6:38:51 And even at that, I'm up and down and up and down and up and down. 6:38:54 I can't stay still. Speaker 17
6:38:58 What's... 6:38:59 What's it been like trying to access medical care? 6:39:02 Can you share that with us? Speaker 3
6:39:05 The first year of the injury, my family physician was off. 6:39:10 So he had been doing walk-ins at one of the clinics, local clinics here, so that in the event that he was on leave or something like that, then we would still have access to a physician. 6:39:24 I saw that doctor the first time in August of 2021, and he absolutely would not hear when I had said, like, that I have not been okay since I got the second shot of Pfizer. 6:39:40 No, no, no. 6:39:41 In my personal opinion, that's not what that could be. 6:39:44 I'm like, okay, so we started the whole rigmarole of process of elimination to see if it can be anything else, and it's not. 6:39:55 And he refused to even acknowledge. 6:40:01 And then he started sending me to physio. 6:40:04 And that was just the regular physio. 6:40:06 It wasn't the specialized physio yet. 6:40:08 And I was discussing with her. 6:40:12 And she had said, she said, you know, that knee, she said there was a very thin little bit of inflammation in there. 6:40:20 She said, so when you got the vaccine, it put a spotlight on that. 6:40:25 area of itis of inflammation and target caused my immune system to attack the healthy tissues that were there. 6:40:34 It had been a site of previous injury. 6:40:39 I had had a meniscus injury 10 years prior. 6:40:42 So it triggered my immune system to attack the healthy tissues in that side. Speaker 22
6:40:50 Can I ask you just 6:40:55 how this has affected your family situation, like people around you? Speaker 3
6:41:04 I don't really try to impose on my family and friends. 6:41:08 I pretty much just deal with what I can and I don't really ask for... You start to feel after a while like a burden. 6:41:23 know you don't want to be sitting there and every single time that you hear from somebody it's oh everything's still terrible everything's still you know i feel like you're and it's i don't want to impose on people so let's try not to and how how like this how do they how do they respond they've been supportive they oh very i understand how you feel about it um 6:41:51 I used to host everything. 6:41:52 I used to host birthdays and Christmases, and it was my house that all of those things happened at. 6:41:59 So now nobody gets those things anymore. 6:42:02 They don't get the special meals. 6:42:03 They don't get the special cooking and things like that that were really important to our family. Speaker 15
6:42:09 So it's been difficult. Speaker 17
6:42:17 You applied to the Vaccine Injury Support Program, and you had an interesting refusal letter. Speaker 14
6:42:28 Which one? Speaker 17
6:42:29 Well, the first one. 6:42:32 Because, can you share about that? 6:42:36 Because it was just... Yeah. Speaker 3
6:42:38 But they didn't pay attention to my case even to get the brand of vaccine right when they refused me. 6:42:47 They said that my claim was that the second shot of Moderna had caused it. 6:42:53 And when I appealed, I said, well, I didn't get any Moderna shots. 6:42:57 I got two Pfizer shots. 6:42:59 So they didn't even get it. 6:43:00 I'm surprised they got my name right, to be honest with you. 6:43:02 It was a fiasco. Speaker 17
6:43:05 I was just thinking in all fairness to this. 6:43:07 is you weren't injured by the Moderna vaccine. 6:43:10 So they were right to refuse you for that one, right? 6:43:13 But what was the process? 6:43:14 And I am joking, and I don't mean to make light of that, but it's just quite something we had an earlier witness talk about how the VIS program was asking for medical records from the neurologist claiming that this person was dead and the person had to correct it. 6:43:31 And with you, they've got the vaccine wrong. 6:43:32 And that wasn't the only error. 6:43:34 That was just... Speaker 3
6:43:36 I couldn't even... 6:43:38 I couldn't even list the amount of things that are wrong with that program. 6:43:45 It was the most absurd thing that I've ever had to deal with because I can disprove everything that they said, and I did. 6:43:55 So they had given me the original refusal. 6:43:58 So when I did my appeal, I submitted 6:44:05 three peer-reviewed articles, three published case studies. 6:44:11 I cited statistical data because the reasons that they were giving just didn't make sense. 6:44:18 They were saying that because my injury is away from the site of injection, there's no way that it could have been that. 6:44:28 well, the whole purpose of a vaccine or of one of these inoculations is so that it circulates throughout your body and all your cells. 6:44:36 It doesn't stay in the arm, you know? 6:44:40 They said that, so they, the full board, all three of them, acknowledged the temporal association between my injury and the shot. 6:44:55 So they all acknowledged that. 6:44:56 They acknowledged 6:44:58 that my condition is CRPS, they repeatedly in that first rejection letter said left knee, left knee, left knee. Speaker 17
6:45:11 Which is the wrong knee? Speaker 3
6:45:12 No, no, it's the left one. Speaker 3
6:45:15 But later, the final rejection... 6:45:18 They said bilateral that I was my claim. 6:45:21 They inserted a new claim in there. 6:45:23 So it wasn't even anything that was addressed in the first rejection letter. 6:45:28 So they tried to make it sound like I got testing done when I hadn't like diagnostic imaging and MRI and stuff. 6:45:41 They tried to say that I had that done. Speaker 17
6:45:43 I'm just going to I'm just going to truncate so. 6:45:47 You appealed and then they refused your appeal. 6:45:50 Are you planning on approaching the new program? Speaker 3
6:45:55 Probably not. 6:45:57 Probably not. 6:46:00 After what I went through with this one, it just doesn't, I know it's just going to be refused. 6:46:09 They had an information session. 6:46:11 They never collected my medical records. 6:46:13 We'll just get that on there. 6:46:16 you have to consent to that release of your medical records three years prior to the COVID injection. 6:46:24 They never collected my medical records. 6:46:27 And I have emails with the supervisor from the VISP program, and it's imperative that you collect that first year of records because that's the whole thing, like prior to getting referred to them. 6:46:43 I was asked to confirm that my rheumatologist exists, and if so, where their records are at. 6:46:52 They're the ones that put my application in, so obviously my rheumatologist exists. Speaker 17
6:46:59 It sounds like it was just an absolute mess. Speaker 3
6:47:01 It was a disaster. 6:47:02 They even, for the final panel, because you go up on the panel twice, right? 6:47:06 So they do the panel, that's the first rejection. 6:47:10 You appeal, they do a second panel. 6:47:12 On the second panel, they, I don't know if recruited is the best word, but they, my rheumatologist had to recuse herself for a conflict of interest because my case ended up on her desk and she was supposed to be an expert on the deciding panel for this. Speaker 17
6:47:32 And I'm just going to, I'm just going to truncate because we're getting low on time. Speaker 23
6:47:37 Could you do it? Speaker 17
6:47:40 Ms. Goulden? 6:47:43 Thank you, Crystal. Speaker 9
6:47:45 So just maybe already referred to it, but employment, are you working now? 6:47:51 Financial situation, maybe about the costs. 6:47:54 And is this self-care, is it all consuming at this point? 6:48:00 Are you able to, do you have supports and new goals and vision? 6:48:04 You know, just where you're at. Speaker 3
6:48:08 I cannot work. 6:48:10 I've always had very physical jobs and I can't maintain the schedule. 6:48:14 I average about four hours a night of sleep. 6:48:17 So I'm brain foggy. 6:48:19 I can't, I'm not employable, they've said. 6:48:25 I have CPP disability and long-term. 6:48:31 And that's my income. 6:48:33 I'm trapped at 66.6% of what I was making in 2021. 6:48:37 So that's it. Speaker 9
6:48:44 So it's like life has been sucked out of you in many ways. Speaker 3
6:48:47 Yeah, every day it's just to struggle to get through the day in a survival mode. 6:48:53 And you're constantly told, oh, it's going to flare more if you don't reduce your stress. 6:48:58 How, where do you want me to reduce my stress? 6:49:01 In between appointments, like for a while, I had physio. 6:49:06 They gave me a psychologist. 6:49:08 I had psychology. 6:49:09 I had plus my other appointments, plus running around to – 6:49:14 get forms filled out and dropped off at Service Canada and this, that and the other. 6:49:19 It's been a bombardment of garbage from every side. 6:49:24 And they don't even give you five minutes to be treated like a human being through all of this. 6:49:30 Like they have, between the physicians and 6:49:35 the vaccine injury support program, they've taken the most difficult time in my life and made it just unbelievably worse. 6:49:42 Like the lack of compassion or even just civility, you know, just be human for five minutes. 6:49:53 Put yourself in somebody else's shoes who I went from 6:49:58 It's just a definite before and after. 6:50:03 Nothing's the same. 6:50:06 As for your question, is there any prospects? 6:50:09 Not at this point, no. 6:50:11 It's bleak. 6:50:12 It's a very bleak feeling. Speaker 22
6:50:18 A lot of people have talked about the costs that are not covered by provincial or federal or by... 6:50:28 any type of programs. Speaker 23
6:50:30 What type of costs? Speaker 22
6:50:32 I mean, we started talking about physiotherapy and all these things. 6:50:35 Are any of these things covered or are you on the hook for them yourself? Speaker 3
6:50:39 My physio was covered because it was through the hospital. 6:50:42 So I got into a really good program because of the CRPS. 6:50:47 I had specialized physiotherapy. 6:50:50 So it wasn't just regular like sports therapy or whatever. 6:50:55 So through that, I was able to get the physio and the psychology for three years. 6:51:02 Those were all covered. 6:51:05 Last year, I was terminated. 6:51:08 I was fired. 6:51:08 So I was fired because my absence is from work. 6:51:15 My absences from work frustrated my work contract is what they said. 6:51:20 So I had lost all my benefits and everything. 6:51:23 So I actually have an appointment coming up with my family doctor in November to wean off of the existing medications that keep me as functional as I am. 6:51:35 because I'm upwards of $200 a month just in medications and things like that, and I can't afford to maintain that now. 6:51:44 So I got fired for being absent, and the reason that I'm absent is because my work had the mandate to be vaccinated by September or lose my job and get laid off. 6:51:58 So, yeah, it's kind of ironic. Speaker 22
6:52:02 Well, Chris, we want to thank you for coming in today. 6:52:05 Thank you for letting this up. 6:52:06 I appreciate it. 6:52:07 We do appreciate it. 6:52:08 And once again, we realize that we need to keep pointing out the pain that people are in, even as they make a commitment to travel across the country from a short distance or a far distance. 6:52:18 It is a sacrifice. 6:52:21 And that you guys really want to tell your story, but you're still prepared to make that. 6:52:25 So thank you for that. Speaker 23
6:52:27 Thank you. 6:52:29 Thanks, Kirsten. Speaker 17
6:52:32 So our 6:52:33 Next witness is going to be a virtual witness, and we're just trusting that they're going to bring her up. Speaker 14
6:52:46 So we don't have any video. 6:52:47 I don't see any video. 6:52:50 There we are. 6:52:50 Drew, can you hear me? Speaker 17
6:52:54 Okay, we'll just wait for, we can't hear you yet, so just sit tight. 6:52:58 Please keep talking, and we'll get the sound figured out. Speaker 17
6:53:11 Yeah, I guess we're going to, so Drew, we can't hear you yet. 6:53:16 So we're going to go to the next witness and hopefully they'll work out that bug between now and the next witness. 6:53:25 Okay. 6:53:28 So we are now going to move our next witness now is Julie Woods. 6:53:34 Julie, welcome to the Allison Inquiry. Speaker 26
6:53:37 Thank you. Speaker 17
6:53:39 So you already have the Bible in your right hand. 6:53:42 Julie Woods, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Speaker 14
6:53:49 Yes, I do. Speaker 17
6:53:52 Now, just because in some people's mind long COVID is an issue, 6:54:01 yours is an interesting case is that it's conclusive that you did not have COVID when you were injured because of lab testing that was done. Speaker 26
6:54:12 That is correct. 6:54:13 There was lab testing done through a research study that I was a part of at the university health network that was able to definitively determine that I did not have COVID as of 2023. Speaker 17
6:54:27 Now, how are you doing today? 6:54:30 Cause I, 6:54:32 We'll get into it, but you you're starting a new treatment. 6:54:35 And when we spoke, you had kind of been bumped up to a larger dose yesterday and we weren't sure if you'd be OK. Speaker 26
6:54:43 Yes, it's been a very rough morning. 6:54:46 The side effects are honestly the most intense they have ever been. 6:54:51 But I would not miss this opportunity for the world. Speaker 17
6:54:54 OK, well, we we appreciate that. 6:54:56 Can you share with us what you are experiencing now? Speaker 26
6:54:59 Yeah, absolutely. 6:55:02 So, um, 6:55:04 The nausea is pretty bad. 6:55:07 To be honest, I was sick this morning from the side effects and I get severe headaches from the treatment and am not able to think straight. 6:55:21 So more so than usual, I'm experiencing like the bearing fog, memory issues, thought patterns are very difficult to hold on to. Speaker 17
6:55:37 We'll be very careful as we go together, but you undertook the treatment yesterday. 6:55:43 The initials are SCIG, which is an intravenous treatment that Speaker 26
6:55:50 Yes, so it's a subcutaneous immune globulin is the long form of it. 6:55:56 So it's a form of immunotherapy that I was just able to start approximately seven weeks ago. 6:56:04 Although, as we'll probably get into in more detail, this therapy was recommended by my doctor in Utah two years ago for me. 6:56:15 And it's taken this long to get access to the treatment in Canada. 6:56:20 And unfortunately, as a result, my condition has progressed significantly. Speaker 17
6:56:26 Right. 6:56:27 And I mean, we're there now, so we will get there again. 6:56:29 But so if you had gotten this treatment earlier, you would not have deteriorated as much as you have. Speaker 26
6:56:37 That is the belief. 6:56:38 Yes. Speaker 17
6:56:39 Yeah. 6:56:39 So and I don't think it will shock most people that if somebody is deteriorating, that maybe if you help them, that you'll have better outcomes. 6:56:50 And 6:56:50 When we were talking, not today, but on an earlier occasion, you actually even expressed to me guilt that you were getting this treatment. 6:57:00 And can you share with us why you would feel guilty after waiting two years to be able to access this? Speaker 26
6:57:08 Yeah, absolutely. 6:57:09 So unfortunately, many Canadians experience 6:57:18 not only difficulty, but an impossibility of accessing these immunotherapies in Canada. 6:57:27 As many as my colleagues have testified, these treatments are very, very heavily gatekeepers in Canada, and it is next to impossible to access them. 6:57:40 So although 6:57:42 I know that there's many other people out there like me who could benefit from these therapies and who would have been more likely to benefit from these therapies years ago. 6:57:55 They're not able to access them. 6:57:57 So although it did take a long time for me, I am incredibly lucky because there are the majority of our members at CanRise19 that don't 6:58:09 don't have their conditions diagnosed and they're not able to access these treatments. Speaker 17
6:58:15 Okay. 6:58:15 So let's, I'm just going to now introduce you to the inquiry, but you're 29 and you've spoken about CanRise19. 6:58:23 You're a co-founder of CanRise19 and I will ask you later about CanRise19. 6:58:31 You're working on a master's degree in counseling psychology. 6:58:35 You were a 6:58:37 a recreational athlete, you played basketball, volleyball, you were a long distance runner, badminton, you were on the women's volleyball team in college, you worked full time between two jobs, and health prior, you had no health issues. 6:58:54 So you're basically a young college student when COVID hits, who was extremely active in sports and extremely healthy. Speaker 26
6:59:04 That's correct. 6:59:05 At that time, my favorite quote was, it's more than just a game. 6:59:10 It's a way of life. 6:59:11 Because to me, it was particularly volleyball. Speaker 17
6:59:18 Right. 6:59:18 Okay. 6:59:19 And you still coach. Speaker 26
6:59:20 I do. 6:59:21 Yes. Speaker 17
6:59:22 So, okay. 6:59:23 We'll go into that in a moment. 6:59:24 Now, as far as your vaccines go, so you get in May 16, 2021, the Pfizer shot. 6:59:33 And that was really uneventful, the first one, as I understand it. 6:59:38 But on June 26, 2021, you get the second Pfizer shot. 6:59:42 Can you share with us what happened after that? Speaker 26
6:59:46 Yeah. 6:59:47 So after the second vaccine, within the first month, I began experiencing numbness, tingling, and pain, which I now know is referred to as paresthesia. 6:59:57 And at that point, the symptoms were from my knees down. 7:00:05 And within the month I presented to... Can I just slow you down here? Speaker 17
7:00:11 So this is both of your legs. 7:00:15 And so basically from the knees down, this tingling numbness and pain, on a scale of 10, like what would the pain level be? Speaker 26
7:00:26 At that point, it was approximately five, six. Speaker 17
7:00:29 Okay. 7:00:29 So this is very uncomfortable. 7:00:31 Yes. 7:00:32 And... 7:00:33 How long is it going on? 7:00:34 Is this constant? Speaker 26
7:00:37 It was fairly constant, but not as much so as it is now. Speaker 17
7:00:43 Okay. 7:00:44 So what are you thinking here? 7:00:47 Because this went on for months and months and months. 7:00:51 I guess it's still going on. Speaker 26
7:00:53 Yes. 7:00:53 So this time around, following the second dose, it lasted for four months. 7:00:59 The symptoms did go away after that four month period. 7:01:04 But they did come back after the third dose. Speaker 17
7:01:06 Right. 7:01:07 And it also affected your the distance you could walk in it. 7:01:11 And your endurance, right? 7:01:12 Your second shot? Speaker 26
7:01:14 Yeah. 7:01:14 So since I wasn't able to participate in team sports throughout COVID, I turned to walking as a form of exercise. 7:01:22 And before I took the COVID vaccines, I was still able to go three, four kilometers a day. 7:01:29 And after taking the second dose, that decreased to approximately one to two kilometers at most. Speaker 17
7:01:37 Did you in any way attribute this to the vaccine at the time? Speaker 26
7:01:42 Not immediately. 7:01:43 What actually ended up being the contributing factor for me associating my symptoms with the COVID vaccines was that I presented to urgent care because there was concern that I might have had blood clots. 7:01:57 And it was actually the staff at urgent care who specifically asked me which COVID vaccine I took. 7:02:05 And until that point, I didn't think that it could have been related to the COVID vaccines. 7:02:13 But why ask a question if there's no possible relation? Speaker 17
7:02:18 Yeah, no, that's pretty telling, isn't it? 7:02:21 When they're when they're asking you which vaccine you took. 7:02:26 Because they're not asking you what you ate for breakfast. Speaker 17
7:02:30 Or, you know, did your parents have this problem? 7:02:32 Correct. 7:02:33 They're asking you what, which vaccine you took. Speaker 17
7:02:38 So, but you still then decided to take a third vaccine. Speaker 17
7:02:43 So, and that was on December 21st, 2021. 7:02:46 Again, Pfizer. 7:02:47 Can you share with us what happened after that? Speaker 26
7:02:50 Yeah, so within five days of having taken the third dose, the symptoms that I was experiencing after the second dose came right back. 7:03:00 Except this time over the course of three weeks, it worked its way from the bottom of my feet to my waist down. 7:03:09 So it didn't stop at my knees this time. 7:03:11 In addition to that, it was also much more consistent pain at a higher intensity. 7:03:18 So at this point, rather than the five, six, we were looking at anywhere between seven and nine. Speaker 17
7:03:25 Okay. 7:03:25 So I just want to kind of unpack that. 7:03:28 So basically from your waist down now, you are in like seven to nine. 7:03:34 That's like an unbearable pain stage. 7:03:38 And this is constant. 7:03:42 What type of pain was it? 7:03:45 What was the sensation that you were feeling? Speaker 26
7:03:50 It was like a burning pain. 7:03:51 It kind of felt like internally that the nerves within my body were vibrating. 7:03:59 Almost as if you had bugs crawling on the inside of you 24-7. Speaker 17
7:04:04 Did it feel like bugs crawling on you? Speaker 17
7:04:08 Okay. 7:04:09 So not only is it this intense pain, but you actually have this sensation like bugs are crawling throughout basically your body from the waist down. 7:04:19 And how long does this go on for? 7:04:22 It's still actually still going on to some degree. Speaker 26
7:04:25 Yes, it hasn't stopped. 7:04:27 It's only progressed. 7:04:30 It is now full body that I experienced these symptoms. 7:04:35 And the intensity continues at that level to this day. Speaker 14
7:04:47 Okay. 7:04:48 So how far up? Speaker 15
7:04:54 Today, I experienced the symptoms full body. Speaker 14
7:04:56 Okay. 7:05:00 And so you're in pain right now? 7:05:02 Yes. Speaker 17
7:05:05 So not only, like you shared with us earlier, you've got this nausea from your treatment, but you're also in extreme pain. 7:05:13 And this is your daily life, isn't it? Speaker 17
7:05:15 So every day you're in chronic pain. 7:05:18 Absolutely. 7:05:19 The only question is, what is the level going to be today? 7:05:24 Correct. 7:05:28 Sometimes it gets so bad that, like, 7:05:32 You're literally on the couch crying in pain all night? Speaker 17
7:05:39 Okay. 7:05:40 You also have what's called small fiber neuropathy. Speaker 26
7:05:46 Yes. 7:05:46 So I was diagnosed with small fiber neuropathy after attempting to find care in Canada. 7:05:56 Eventually, I did have to go to the United States. 7:06:00 When I first presented with these symptoms to the urgent care, I was sent to the emergency department for concerns of potential Guillain-Barre syndrome. 7:06:13 And when I went to eMERGE, I packed my bags because at this point it was... 7:06:24 quite clear to both my family and I that my symptoms were the result of the COVID vaccines because it happened not only once, but twice. 7:06:36 And so I was sure that I would be admitted because why wouldn't the medical community want to figure out what happens to me so that they could prevent it from happening to other people? 7:06:51 Little did I know at that time that it was already too late. 7:06:54 There were already tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people like me worldwide. Speaker 17
7:07:05 You were talking about getting diagnosed in the States. 7:07:07 Yes. 7:07:09 And it's really interesting that somebody in Canada has to pay privately to go to the States to get diagnosed. 7:07:18 When was it? 7:07:19 Like what month and year did you end up going to the States? Speaker 26
7:07:22 It was October of 2024 that I went to Utah. Speaker 17
7:07:27 Okay. 7:07:28 So you're injured in 2021. Speaker 17
7:07:31 And the Canadian medical system will not give you a proper diagnosis and you end up in 2024 going to the States. Speaker 26
7:07:41 Yes, correct. 7:07:42 My dad and I traveled up to 10 hours to see a total of 7:07:47 23 doctors in Canada to try to get my condition properly assessed, diagnosed, and to obtain treatments. 7:07:57 Unfortunately, the responses that we received in Canada ranged anywhere from being called stupid and incompetent and being told that vaccines don't do that and that I needed to stop wasting the time. 7:08:15 of the medical community. 7:08:17 And when my condition was finally acknowledged by someone in Canada, the response was that I should be thankful because other people reacted far worse than I did. 7:08:29 So either 7:08:33 my condition was not acknowledged or my condition wasn't bad enough to be treated. Speaker 17
7:08:39 I just, I just want to unpack this because I think we need to slow it down just so that it can sink in for people. 7:08:46 So you and your father, cause you now have to rely on your parents. Speaker 17
7:08:51 You can't cook meals by yourself. 7:08:54 You cannot go to the store by yourself. 7:08:56 You cannot go to medical appointments by yourself. 7:08:59 You're no longer independent. Speaker 26
7:09:00 That's correct. Speaker 17
7:09:01 And, 7:09:02 So relying on your parents, you go to 23 doctors. Speaker 17
7:09:09 Basically to get help and get diagnosis and tests in Canada. 7:09:14 You, as I'm, you know, from an earlier conversation. 7:09:19 Yeah. 7:09:19 So one, a neurologist instructed a nurse to quote, tell that girl that vaccines don't do that. Speaker 17
7:09:28 and to stop wasting their, meaning the medical system's time. 7:09:33 Correct. 7:09:35 On two other times that say things like you're incompetent and you're stupid. Speaker 28
7:09:42 Correct. Speaker 17
7:09:43 So here you are experiencing what anyone would describe as debilitating symptoms. 7:09:53 And you're basically being abused. 7:09:54 I don't know what other term to use. 7:09:57 And these are just examples you're giving us. Speaker 26
7:10:00 Yes, those are just examples across the total of 23. 7:10:06 My dad who attended every one of those appointments with me and myself heard everything in between that. Speaker 14
7:10:14 You were called a drug addict by a neurologist. 7:10:16 I was. Speaker 17
7:10:24 How does that affect you when 7:10:25 you're suffering terribly and basically you're being ridiculed because they cannot acknowledge that you're vaccine injured. Speaker 26
7:10:33 I mean, my family doctor tried to make all the referrals possible and the majority of people got back to her saying that she needed to refer me to psychiatry because that's all I was, was a psych case. 7:10:48 And after hearing that from 23 different people, 7:10:52 eventually you start to believe it. 7:10:56 And so I thought that maybe they were right. 7:10:58 Maybe it was all in my head. 7:11:01 And that's when I ended up finding React 19 in the United States. 7:11:06 And I realized that 7:11:09 I wasn't alone and this wasn't all in my head and that other people were experiencing exactly what I was. 7:11:17 So I had the opportunity to participate in their pilot emotional support group. 7:11:22 And through that was actually when I started to realize that my symptoms were consistent 7:11:29 with small fiber neuropathy and with postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. 7:11:34 And at that point, I started asking the Canadian specialists to test me and none of them would. Speaker 17
7:11:42 Yeah. 7:11:42 So, so you join this, React 19 is a group in the United States of COVID-19 vaccine injured persons. Speaker 17
7:11:50 And so it's this community where people can share what's happening. 7:11:54 They also, you know, look into research and so you can learn about things. 7:11:58 So you're 7:11:59 Basically learning you're not alone. 7:12:02 And you're also learning, wait a second, other people that have similar things. 7:12:07 These are the diagnoses, but no Canadian specialist will test you. Speaker 26
7:12:12 Correct. Speaker 17
7:12:13 So you have to pay to go to the United States. 7:12:16 And then they actually say, yes, you have this and you have this. Speaker 26
7:12:20 Exactly. 7:12:20 So not only was it confirmed that I did have the very conditions that I told Canadian doctors I knew I had with the small fiber neuropathy and the postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, they also confirmed that I had mitochondrial dysfunction, insulin resistance, and microclotting. Speaker 22
7:12:45 Julie, I'd like to hear a little bit more about CanRise. 7:12:47 I know it's a 7:12:49 You know, you guys set that up. 7:12:52 And in terms of the reach and how you guys are helping other people and maybe even kind of the vision of what you hope it can become. Speaker 26
7:12:59 Yeah. 7:13:00 So after I received those diagnoses from Utah and I came back home, I shared my story publicly for the first time. 7:13:08 And that's when Michelle Wharton from BC connected with me as we went to the same medical clinic. 7:13:14 And so the two of us realized that there wasn't anything wrong. 7:13:19 in Canada, like there was React 19 that was doing all the same things that they were doing. 7:13:28 And so the two of us co-founded CanRise19 and we became part of the COVID Vaccine Injury Alliance. Speaker 22
7:13:35 So what types of things are 7:13:40 Is CanRise19 doing? 7:13:41 We've heard from Michelle a little bit, but I don't think you can tell you. 7:13:44 It's a great story. 7:13:46 I don't think you can tell enough of it because not everyone understands what it does or what it could do or what you hope it could do. Speaker 26
7:13:53 Yeah, absolutely. 7:13:54 So right now we're able to offer emotional and physical support to Canadians. Speaker 2
7:14:00 Oh, that's great. Speaker 26
7:14:02 who are experiencing COVID vaccine injury, as well as those who are bereaved. 7:14:07 So we do that through offering emotional support groups that we meet on a weekly basis. 7:14:13 So the individuals can come together and connect with those who are experiencing what they are and who understand what they are going through. 7:14:22 I know Michelle touched on the physical portion with our provider list. 7:14:26 So I won't go into too much detail about that. 7:14:29 But the one pillar that is remaining that React 19 has been able to accomplish that we have not been able to yet is the financial support. 7:14:39 Because as you've heard from lots of us, we have spent thousands upon thousands upon hundreds of thousands of dollars on medical care. 7:14:50 And so we are working really hard to achieve charitable status. 7:14:55 Right now we are a registered not-for-profit, but we're hoping to achieve charitable status so that we can work on getting donations so that we can create a medical care fund for Canadians who have out-of-pocket medical and mental health expenses. Speaker 22
7:15:12 Well, I just want to say not only am I grateful for you coming today, but, you know, through all the pain and what you're experiencing, 7:15:20 You guys continue to figure out other ways how you can help the rest of the community. 7:15:24 It's pretty impressive. Speaker 26
7:15:26 Yeah, absolutely. 7:15:26 Thank you. 7:15:27 We appreciate that. 7:15:28 And unfortunately, it is the injured that are left to help the injured because there really isn't other support out there for us. Speaker 22
7:15:41 Well, thank you very much for attending today. Speaker 15
7:15:43 Yeah, appreciate it. Speaker 17
7:15:50 I had a couple of more questions. 7:15:52 And it's just that I know you're a vibrant part of this community. 7:15:57 Yes. 7:15:59 Generally speaking, how are the members of CanRise? 7:16:04 Because don't you guys, like I should, members are the wrong term because I know there's a difference between how many people participate in discussions. 7:16:14 But like what's the feeling out there towards the medical system and how they've been treated? Speaker 26
7:16:20 Honestly, it's that we've all been abandoned. 7:16:24 We are five years into this. 7:16:28 And like I said, I'm lucky to have a diagnosis and a treatment plan. 7:16:33 we hear time and time again from our members that they don't have a diagnosis. 7:16:40 They don't have a treatment plan. 7:16:43 And unfortunately what's being presented as a treatment plan and an option to them is medical assistance in dying or suicide. Speaker 17
7:16:55 And that was going to be my next question because we had, um, 7:17:02 I think it was Senator Johnson or somebody yesterday had mentioned that in discussions with React 19, that they're reporting that more and more of their members just can't take it anymore. 7:17:14 And they don't have, you know, legalized suicide here. 7:17:20 But so people are just taking their own lives. 7:17:23 I know that you have a personal concern that CanRise 19 members, some of them just aren't going to be able to take it anymore. 7:17:30 and that they're going to kill themselves. 7:17:31 Can you talk about that for a moment? Speaker 26
7:17:34 Yeah, so through CanRise19, we have an advocacy program. 7:17:40 And so individuals can reach out for support and to be connected to resources. 7:17:47 But we're finding that there's very limited, if any, resources in Canada. 7:17:55 And so unfortunately, when people are reaching out to us and they're reaching out to people 7:18:03 organizations in Canada who are noting the same trends within silent survivors or Can Connect 19. 7:18:11 We're having people call us and we at Can Connect 19 are their last hope. 7:18:16 They're calling us saying, if I'm not better and I don't have a treatment option in a month, then I'm going to apply for MAID or I'm going to complete suicide. Speaker 14
7:18:28 Okay. 7:18:36 I don't think anyone in this room knows what to do with that. Speaker 26
7:18:40 No, and that's where we're stuck because we can provide all the emotional support groups in the world, but if... 7:18:53 the medical community in Canada is not able to acknowledge us and is not able to treat us, we are going to continue to see this trend in Canada. 7:19:05 And we are going to continue to lose the COVID vaccine injured in Canada. 7:19:12 And that is honestly the hardest part in all of this. Speaker 22
7:19:19 Any response, Rebecca? Speaker 23
7:19:25 Thank you for your testimony today. 7:19:27 And you've had a very unique journey of trying to find a diagnosis and treatment. 7:19:34 From your experience in this matter, can you shed some insight as to why our medical profession is so hesitant, even post 7:19:53 covid pandemic to to provide any sort of assistance is it because they don't know uh they're afraid um you know like i i'm at a loss that you know if they take this oath to care for people and they're abandoning them um is there something you know like you've experienced you've experienced it yeah you know like multiple dozen times Speaker 26
7:20:18 Yes. 7:20:18 And many of our members have as well. 7:20:21 And in preparation for today, I spoke to many of those individuals because I'm not just here speaking for myself. 7:20:29 I'm speaking for 7:20:31 thousands of Canadians who are too sick to travel here today. 7:20:36 I'm speaking for thousands of Canadians that are too scared to come forward and to share their stories. 7:20:42 And to that note, that's where I feel the barrier is within the medical system, is that fear. 7:20:51 Because we've learned from many of our members who have had these closed door conversations with their doctors that, yes, you're vaccine injured, but 7:21:00 I can't put that on record because my license is on the line. 7:21:04 And so they're not able to document this and they're not able to treat us. 7:21:10 And so in order to get treatment, we're having to say that it could be long COVID. 7:21:20 The doctors are having to say that it could be long COVID, even though we all know that it's COVID vaccine injury. Speaker 22
7:21:35 Julia, to say once again, thank you so much for not only being here and sharing your story, but also the work you do to help others as well. 7:21:42 Thank you. Speaker 26
7:21:43 Yeah, thank you. 7:21:44 And I would like to acknowledge those individuals that we are trying to help, because even with all the barriers that we face in Canada, in the words of an individual that has become a very, very good friend of mine in all of this, 7:21:59 you are worth fighting for. 7:22:02 And if the medical community isn't there to fight for the injured, then we are. 7:22:08 So if you're out there and you're struggling like we are, please, please take that time to reach out to us at CanRise19 at info at CanRise19.com. 7:22:21 And we will be the people to help and support you and to fight for you. Speaker 22
7:22:25 Thanks, Julie. 7:22:26 Thank you. Speaker 26
7:22:26 Thank you. Speaker 17
7:22:31 So our next witness is going to be a virtual witness, Drew Taylor. 7:22:36 Drew, can you hear me? Speaker 8
7:22:38 Yeah, I can. 7:22:40 Can you hear me? Speaker 17
7:22:40 Yes, we can hear you. 7:22:41 So that's a very good start. 7:22:44 Do you have a Bible there? 7:22:46 Okay, good. 7:22:47 So put that in your right hand. 7:22:49 Drew Taylor, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 7:22:55 So help you God. Speaker 8
7:22:57 Absolutely. Speaker 17
7:22:59 Now, 7:23:01 I just want to get some things out of the way. 7:23:03 So you've been verified as vaccine injured and even the Vaccine Injury Support Program agrees that you're vaccine injured. 7:23:11 Is that right? Speaker 15
7:23:13 Correct. Speaker 17
7:23:14 And you did not have COVID until years after what we're going to talk about. 7:23:21 And you wanted to come here in person. 7:23:23 We scheduled you to come here in person, but actually your doctor, Dr. Ahmed, sent me a letter 7:23:31 dated August 29th, 2026, explaining that literally it was not a good idea medically. 7:23:39 And the concern is you could be in bed for weeks over this or even longer. 7:23:48 It could take such a physical toll on you to travel from Alberta to here. Speaker 8
7:23:54 Yeah, I actually haven't been able to fly or travel really at all since becoming injured. 7:24:00 Any disruption to my very normal could absolutely put me back into a serious flare where I'm bed-bound for weeks to months, unable to do anything except just survive. Speaker 17
7:24:13 Yeah, and I know from speaking with you that you were in tears over this. 7:24:18 I want to introduce you to the inquiry. 7:24:21 You were 36 years. 7:24:23 You have two kids, Autumn and Liam, and your husband, Mike Scuba. 7:24:28 You were a yoga instructor, and in fact, you were what was called a power yoga instructor, which is, most people can't even do that. 7:24:40 You were very fit, you were very active. 7:24:43 You were a professional massage therapist for both humans and horses, and you would do five to eight 7:24:51 clients a day extremely healthy. 7:24:54 And then you had a journey with the vaccines that have changed that. 7:25:05 Can you share with us your journey? 7:25:08 My understanding is on April 24th, 2001, it started with the Moderna vaccine. Speaker 8
7:25:16 Sure. 7:25:17 I was actually very pro-vaccine. 7:25:20 I was excited to get this. 7:25:23 I fully thought it was safe and effective as the government had said it was. 7:25:28 So I was ahead of my age group to get this first vaccination because I was part of the health care system and I did have patients that I was seeing and treating. 7:25:37 So I wanted to be safe for them. 7:25:40 And I do regret, obviously. 7:25:44 But after the first 7:25:47 vaccination within hours, I felt like my heart was going to flip or burst out of my chest. 7:25:53 I couldn't sit up without a massive dizzy rush. 7:25:57 I had new pain in my like neck and head. 7:26:01 I could hear my heart rate in my like, I could hear my heart rate. 7:26:05 It was beating in my neck. 7:26:08 I went to the ER, and they caught sinus tachycardia when I was standing. 7:26:12 It was about 130 just standing compared to a normal one while I was sitting. 7:26:21 After that, they did a bunch of tests. 7:26:24 Everything came back normal. 7:26:25 They did an echo, they did a heart monitor and everything was fairly normal. 7:26:30 And I was waiting for Dr. G at the Royal Alec. 7:26:34 He's a cardiologist. 7:26:35 He had seen me and said that he thought that, you know, this sounds like POTS. 7:26:39 At that point, I was having like, I don't know, probably 30 to 50 plus symptoms. 7:26:45 And directly after the vaccine, it took me, 7:26:48 about a month to be able to have that appointment, maybe a little bit longer before I saw Dr. G. And within that time I wasn't working, I was sweating, like not just sweating, like a little bit, like if you've ever gone in, let's say into a hot yoga room, it's, and you come out and you're just drenched. 7:27:06 I was drenched just sitting up and getting up and moving around my house. 7:27:11 And this is, I was extremely active before this. 7:27:13 I could run 7:27:14 a 5K without stopping, no problem. 7:27:16 And all of a sudden for this, after the vaccine, I can't, I couldn't move without a pain, without my heart going crazy, without sweating. 7:27:25 And then I was also freezing at the same time. 7:27:28 So Dr. G thought it might be POTS. 7:27:31 And to his opinion at the time, he said that you can't have POTS without fainting. 7:27:38 At that point, I had not fainted. 7:27:39 I'd only experienced presyncope regularly. 7:27:43 we had to wait for the tilt test. 7:27:45 So I was, I had Moderna in April. 7:27:48 We had to wait. 7:27:48 I ended up getting that tilt test finally in November. 7:27:51 So there's a lot of time that went by. 7:27:54 I was still very symptomatic. 7:27:55 I did, I was about, I was, I think it was like two months after the vaccine, I started to take on like human clients again. 7:28:02 I've never unfortunately been able to work with horses again. 7:28:06 And I didn't that between the first and the second vaccination, but taking on one person again, 7:28:12 compared to the eight people that I could take on in a day, that one client, I would have to... And I was a very therapeutic type of massage therapist. 7:28:20 I was very much so, I'm going to move your body for you so that I can manipulate your joints and be able to heal you. 7:28:27 It's a very physical work. 7:28:29 And I would have to sit down and do relaxation massage where I'm barely... 7:28:34 you know, putting any pressure. 7:28:36 I'm not putting much thought into it because I was just drenched with sweat. 7:28:40 I couldn't make it through the first session that I did. 7:28:42 Um, so my client had to go home. 7:28:46 Anyways, um, the tilt test finally came and Dr. G said it was inconclusive. 7:28:54 So I was experiencing symptoms throughout the test. 7:28:57 It was an inconclusive test and, um, 7:29:01 At this test, there was a resident cardiologist as well as a nurse that when you're doing a tilt test, for those that don't know, it's where they have you lying down so they can get your base and they can get like a basis in your base heart rate, your base blood pressure. 7:29:17 And then they tilt you up, you're strapped to a table. 7:29:20 So that way this is passive. 7:29:21 It's not you standing up, it's them sitting you up. 7:29:24 And then after a certain amount of time, they'll take, sorry, they'll take a... 7:29:32 they'll take measurement when you've been up and then they'll lay you back down, get your bases again, and then they'll add a medication which is supposed to replicate like a vassal dilation. 7:29:44 So what happens when heat is brought into like a normal 7:29:48 a situation like going outside for the heat. 7:29:50 It's supposed to be like that. 7:29:51 Dr. G and the nurse had told me that they, for this test, had used liquid adrenaline. 7:29:56 I'm not sure exactly what medication is, what it was, because it wasn't the same as what in the future Dr. Raj had decided to use. 7:30:03 Anyways, 7:30:04 Dr. G had done this I was again symptomatic on the table and afterwards he said it was inconclusive and that I needed my second vaccination because of a previous blood clot that I had when I was 19 he was concerned that I was going to have blood clots if I got COVID the test was inconclusive he said I didn't have POTS which I know for a fact now you can have POTS without passing out however he said I did not have POTS I did not pass out if I had 7:30:34 If I had thoughts, I would have absolutely passed out. 7:30:37 He also told me that he had spoken with a specialist about my case and that this said specialist also said that I needed the second vaccination. Speaker 17
7:30:50 Can I just slow you down there? 7:30:52 So you are having severe heart problems so much so that you're consulting this cardiologist and they're doing 7:31:02 a test, your whole body would shake. 7:31:05 You couldn't have a shower without sitting down. 7:31:07 You can't work. 7:31:09 You're now using a walker inside, as I understand it. 7:31:13 You can't do, you're basically already disabled. 7:31:17 What I find interesting is, is that two specialists, because there are people that need their lives saved, but two specialists are consulting about whether or not you should take a second vaccine, and you haven't even asked them that question. Speaker 8
7:31:30 Well, isn't it interesting? 7:31:32 because he actually lied about this said specialist. 7:31:35 I actually had a lawsuit going against Dr. G and I had to forego it. Speaker 17
7:31:40 Let's not go there now. 7:31:41 Let's just stay at the time. 7:31:42 So one specialist, a cardiologist, you basically become disabled as a young woman, right? 7:31:50 Like how old were you at this time? Speaker 8
7:31:52 I was 32. Speaker 17
7:31:53 Okay, so you're 32 years old. 7:31:55 You're basically now disabled from a vaccine. 7:31:57 Absolutely. 7:32:01 Without you asking, do you think I should take another vaccine, two specialists have consulted and they're telling you to take the vaccine. 7:32:10 Also, have you got calls yet from Alberta Health Services? 7:32:13 Yes, thank you. 7:32:15 The amount of pressure to get you to take another vaccine after you're disabled is shocking to me. 7:32:21 It was. 7:32:21 So share about this. Speaker 8
7:32:23 It was before the tilt test, actually. 7:32:25 So this was AHS had a nurse contact me before I was even able to get Dr. G to decide if I had POTS or to decide if this tilt test was going to be positive or not. 7:32:36 AHS called me and they said that they had looked over the ER test. 7:32:40 that I had had where I had tachycardia. 7:32:42 And in the ER, the nurses there did say it was directly after vaccination. 7:32:47 They did say it was an adverse event. 7:32:49 This AHS nurse that called me said they deemed it wasn't an adverse event and that whichever specialist she had been working with had also agreed that I need the second vaccination. 7:33:00 And I told her, like, we're actually investigating me right now and a cardiologist has said I shouldn't get the second vaccine until he tests me for POTS. 7:33:09 So how is it that you're on the phone with me, a nurse at EHS or a specialist who I don't know and never seen, calling me to tell me that I need a second vaccine when we haven't even had proper time to investigate? 7:33:21 And it was an adverse event. 7:33:22 It was hours, within hours of taking that vaccine. 7:33:26 And I've never, ever had a reaction to any other medication. 7:33:29 Again, I was excited to get it because I've never had a problem with vaccines before. 7:33:32 So for this AHS person to contact me to just tell me, take the second one. Speaker 17
7:33:39 What's interesting is then with the AHS specialist, so it means, Drew, that it was so important for you to get that second shot that we now in Alberta Health Services have, let's not do cancer surgeries or heart surgeries, let's have our specialists all talking about Drew Taylor and how important it is for Drew Taylor 7:34:01 to get her second shot when you haven't even asked them whether or not you should get a second shot. 7:34:08 It's fantastic and not in a good way. 7:34:10 So you're getting all this pressure to get a second shot and you do because of the pressure, right? Speaker 8
7:34:19 Well, not just the pressure. 7:34:20 I did ask Dr. G for an exemption and he absolutely denied it. 7:34:25 And the specialist he supposedly spoke with, as far as I know, doesn't exist. 7:34:30 I went through medical records. 7:34:31 You're supposed to keep your records for up to 10 years. 7:34:34 The specialist that he consulted with, this conversation, it never happened except to with me. 7:34:39 So I did go ahead and get a few weeks later the second vaccine. 7:34:43 I was pressured. 7:34:46 My family is in the States. 7:34:48 And unfortunately, at the time, my mom was really worried. 7:34:51 What if something happens to my grandma? 7:34:53 What if something happens to them? 7:34:54 And at the time, you couldn't cross the border without taking both vaccinations. 7:34:58 And unfortunately, my grandma did end up passing, but I was too sick to go because it was after the second vaccination where I started fainting. 7:35:05 And I've not flown or traveled seriously since the traveling that I have done. 7:35:09 I'm sick on. 7:35:11 So... 7:35:12 Unfortunately, yeah, due to the pressure, I did take it. 7:35:14 And within 24 hours, every symptom I felt before was amplified. 7:35:20 I felt like I was going to pass out before. 7:35:22 After the second vaccination, I would be in my bed. 7:35:25 I would sit up and immediately get this heart rush. 7:35:30 And I'd be like, okay, I have to go to the bathroom. 7:35:32 I'm not going to just sit here and go in my bed. 7:35:35 So I get up to go to the bathroom. Speaker 7
7:35:36 And by that point, I'm fainting. 7:35:39 I'm on the ground. Speaker 8
7:35:40 There's nothing. 7:35:42 And you get back up and you feel it again, like everything. 7:35:47 Your head hurts. 7:35:49 You've got to puke. 7:35:50 You've got to piss. 7:35:51 You've got to everything. 7:35:53 Every part of my system wasn't working. 7:35:55 I could feel my heart trembling. 7:35:57 I would have trembles. 7:36:00 My heart rate was going exceeding 200, going to the kitchen, walking to the kitchen. 7:36:12 Yeah, just very difficult time after the second vaccination. 7:36:16 I didn't know what to do. 7:36:20 I was frantic. 7:36:22 I did contact my family doctor. 7:36:24 I told him what happened. 7:36:25 He immediately, after the first vaccination, my family doctor, Dr. Ahmed, also agreed. 7:36:29 This is a vaccine injury. 7:36:31 He, after the second one, told me to rest and this is very serious. 7:36:38 And 7:36:39 uh, he didn't know what to do because we had already, we already contacted, there was the, the cardiologist at the Sturgeon hospital and then the cardiologist at the Royal Alec. 7:36:48 And he, my doctor, we sat there together. 7:36:50 Like, I don't know what to do. 7:36:51 He didn't know what to do. 7:36:53 He's like, I don't know who to reach out for Drew. 7:36:56 I've already, I've already asked these specialists. 7:36:58 They've already tested. 7:36:58 Like, what do I, and so I looked up the POTS organization, um, 7:37:04 standing up for POTS and I actually contacted them and they told me to go to Dr. Raj and have my doctor send an emergency referral. 7:37:13 And not only did my doctor send an emergency referral, I called Dr. Raj probably three or four times leaving voicemails while I'm crying because I wanted him to see me and I wasn't living my life. 7:37:26 I went from perfectly healthy and 7:37:30 owning a business and running my family and helping to bed bound and not able to even get to the kitchen. 7:37:37 So the second ER trip that I took to the university hospital, the cardiologist there and the neurologist there also sent in an emergency referral. 7:37:51 And thankfully Dr. Raj took me on within a couple of months. 7:37:56 He did full autonomic testing on me and in Calgary at his autonomic investigations clinic. 7:38:05 And he found POTS, leaning hyperandrogenetic. 7:38:09 And he found vasovagal syncope and suspected mast cell activation syndrome. 7:38:16 And he... 7:38:18 agreed that this all of my conditions were triggered from the vaccinations. 7:38:24 It was really clear in my history. 7:38:26 Sorry, go ahead. Speaker 17
7:38:27 Well, I'm just so you're you faint constantly like this is still a problem today. Speaker 8
7:38:34 If I'm not on medication, yes. 7:38:36 And unfortunately, my medicines, I take them three or four times a day. 7:38:42 They work for about three hours for me. 7:38:44 So it's difficult because if it's 8 o'clock and I'm still wanting to be awake until 10, I can't be on medicine because they work until 11 and I can't lie down with them. 7:38:55 So there's times where I'm like, okay, my meds wear off, but I still want to exist as a person in my house and I do faint. 7:39:03 I faint right now about one to three times a week. 7:39:06 And this is generally when medicine has worn off. 7:39:09 To be able to not faint and to be able to speak with you even today, I'm on blood pressure medication, heart medication. 7:39:18 I'm on mast cell stabilizers. 7:39:20 I've had a gallon of water already today. 7:39:22 And I require 10,000 to 14,000 milligrams of sodium to be able to keep my blood flow and 7:39:32 uh hydration maintaining because when i stand unfortunately with pots you as you've heard probably today it's our blood flow does not go to our heart and our head so compression salt water is the treatment alongside beta blockers right so just you know back to when this first happened my understanding is is in addition to like fainting all the time until they they figured out your medications you literally bed bound for a year but you were also throwing up constantly 7:40:00 Oh, yes. 7:40:01 This is actually still an issue. 7:40:02 So especially the first about year and a half, I was bed bound even after starting the plan with Dr. Raj. 7:40:08 Like this is not these conditions, POTS, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome is not an easy condition. 7:40:15 It is very complex. 7:40:16 And even Dr. Raj had said, you know, his patients are very, they're in line seems to heart failure, what we deal with every day. 7:40:26 So yes, I was throwing up constantly. 7:40:30 I'm now allergic, like I have sensitivities anyways. 7:40:33 None of these are true allergies with mast cell, but I react strongly now to gluten, dairy, soy, sugars, preservatives. Speaker 17
7:40:43 I want to focus on some other things because we're getting tight on time. 7:40:48 Right now, basically, if you're going to go outside, you have to walk with a cane. 7:40:54 You can't go to the store without a wheelchair. 7:40:56 I'm right about that. Speaker 8
7:40:58 No, I can walk right now as long as I have compression, as long as I am okay, but I am limited. 7:41:04 So I can go for maybe a small walk, and then I have to sit down and deal with presyncope. 7:41:09 So if I'm walking for 10 minutes, that's fine. 7:41:12 I can do that, except then I have to sit down and deal with my heart pain, and I still have to catch up. 7:41:18 By catch up, I mean I have to... 7:41:22 recover from any physical activity that I do. 7:41:25 I've not yet gone to an event without a wheelchair. 7:41:27 And typically like an event as in like, 7:41:30 if my, uh, like there was a, um, what was it? 7:41:34 Weird owl was in town recently. 7:41:36 My husband had bought tickets a long time ago. 7:41:38 We only got to the event and then basically had to leave. 7:41:42 It was just too bright, too loud. 7:41:44 But for us, even just like getting there is enough. 7:41:46 Like, but before I would have been able to enjoy the whole concert symptom free, no problem. 7:41:51 Now I leave an hour and a half early or like way too early. 7:41:55 And, um, 7:41:56 But for the next week, I'm actually bed-bound again because I chose to try to do something. 7:42:02 Everything for me has a consequence. Speaker 17
7:42:05 Right. 7:42:05 Are you able to shower by yourself? Speaker 8
7:42:08 I am, but I'm not able to shower without immediately sitting down still. 7:42:12 And I do, one of the fainting episodes I had that was severe my first year, I actually ended up with my own little Harry Potter scar. 7:42:21 I cut my head from the top of my head to the middle of my forehead and 7:42:25 I don't know exactly how, but I was in the shower and fainted for that one. 7:42:29 It's still an issue. Speaker 17
7:42:31 When you, before your second dose, when you were still doing massage therapy and people started getting vaccinated, you saw some changes. 7:42:44 And the main thing you saw was unusual menstrual bleeding. 7:42:47 Can you just quickly share about that? Speaker 8
7:42:50 Yeah, actually. 7:42:51 So for the very few clients that I did see again after the vaccine, I would say a majority had, the majority of my clients did have the vaccine and a good majority of them had issues. 7:43:02 So not only was some of my patients, like they were bleeding for like three months, they would come to me and they were still like bleeding. 7:43:10 And then there was the opposite too, whereas they wouldn't start their period anymore. 7:43:15 And they were like, this is weird. 7:43:17 I know it's vaccine related, but who's going to actually admit that? 7:43:20 And I actually have a client who ended up with a blood clot in his leg and he has, he's still to this day suffering, um, constantly back and forth with the doctors and specialists. 7:43:32 And we, we know it's vaccine related, but none of the doctors want to touch it. Speaker 17
7:43:36 So the, the next, the last thing I wanted to ask you is, is you're actually in the process of setting up a business, making clothes for injured people. 7:43:46 And, um, 7:43:47 So can you share with us, and it's compression clothing, because there's so many people like you that you've learned through social media that there's actually a demand. 7:43:58 And you see, this is actually part of the story that there could be so many people that need compression clothes, like young people that need compression clothes. 7:44:06 Can you just kind of share with us what you're doing and how this came about? Speaker 8
7:44:10 Sure. 7:44:11 So, well, the vaccine injury program was supposed to essentially replace my income, but they have yet to do that. 7:44:18 So I have had to find my own way to survive. 7:44:21 My husband has multiple sclerosis and my kids are young. 7:44:24 So obviously the help that we're getting is not enough to support the family. 7:44:28 So I've definitely been on social media. 7:44:30 I do have a stage name on social media. 7:44:34 However, I have found through going live on TikTok for the last few years, so thousands, thousands of people are suffering from postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome or like it, and the need for compression is quite high. 7:44:50 Yes, I am in the works of making a dress line and that's full leather so that we can keep our style, but it's full medical grade compression underneath. 7:44:59 So that way you don't have to worry about spending $300 for medical grade compression, which I'm supposed to have full compression from toe just past bra line. 7:45:08 And honestly, my arms blood pool as well as a symptom. 7:45:11 So I prefer to have full sleeves often that are compressive. 7:45:15 And, yes, I can't wait to be able to do this more. 7:45:19 But this community needs to have some kind of hope and some kind of light. 7:45:23 And I think that taking away our fashion is, like, obviously it's not just the first thing that we think about when we're sick. 7:45:30 But when you're constantly sick... 7:45:33 And, you know, you can't even leave your house. 7:45:36 I feel like it's important to remember to take care of ourselves, obviously. 7:45:39 And part of that is feeling good and feeling like you look good. 7:45:42 So why not create a medical line of compression that also has style? Speaker 17
7:45:47 Yeah, thank you. 7:45:48 Those are my questions. Speaker 22
7:45:50 Okay. 7:45:51 Hi, Drew. 7:45:52 Hi. 7:45:53 Good to see you. 7:45:54 I got a couple, I got, we're going to ask a couple of questions from some of the MPs that are here. 7:45:58 I got Arnold Beerson, who's from Alberta. 7:46:00 He's going to, he's going to ask a question. 7:46:02 Then I have a question. 7:46:03 afterwards as well. Speaker 12
7:46:05 You just alluded to the vaccine injury program. 7:46:08 Can you just expand on your experience with that? Speaker 8
7:46:12 Yeah, it has been a ride. 7:46:15 So it took a year and a half of back and forth to be accepted into the vaccine injury program. 7:46:23 The initial payout was $45,000 for me. 7:46:27 And I have been in the appeal stage because the vaccine injury program claims that I can go up 7:46:33 a flight of stairs and two flights of stairs with no issue. 7:46:36 That's not true. 7:46:37 So I've been trying to appeal this with my lawyer and we still haven't gotten anywhere. 7:46:42 This has been years and they were supposed to replace my income, which the original payout wouldn't have even replaced my income for that year as a professional massage therapist who owned her own business. 7:46:52 So yeah, my experience is really frustrating. 7:46:56 I think I've had about 14 or 15 different managers 7:47:00 And it's really difficult as someone with brain fog, like even dealing with the sound system today. 7:47:05 If I'm not used to doing something, my brain, it's much more difficult for me to be able to do things. 7:47:12 And they purposely make this extremely difficult. Speaker 22
7:47:16 Thank you. 7:47:19 So, Drew, I want to ask, you know, you have POTS. 7:47:23 Could you explain POTS? 7:47:25 to the people in the audience? 7:47:26 Like we've heard that term a couple of times today. 7:47:29 I mean, so just explain in terms of what it actually means in terms of lifestyle, in terms of what you can and can't do. 7:47:36 I know you explained some of the symptoms, but just in terms of how it shows itself up to you. Speaker 8
7:47:43 Sure. 7:47:44 So anything sitting up or standing requires effort. 7:47:50 So essentially if... 7:47:53 You have to wear compression to be out of bed if you have POTS. 7:47:56 It helps. 7:47:57 get the blood flow back from your legs back up to your heart and your head. 7:48:01 So you have to wear compression and typically medical grade. 7:48:04 The amount of water that you need is also very high in electrolytes and sodium. 7:48:08 And this is also to help the blood flow back to the heart. 7:48:11 So a lot of us like myself, we need excessive amount of sodium. 7:48:16 So 10,000 to 14,000 milligrams for someone like myself who is constantly like without medication going to be fainting. 7:48:25 So for a normal person, too, with POTS, when, say, like, the amount of sensitivities is pretty extreme. 7:48:34 So someone with POTS can't just go to the grocery store, for example. 7:48:37 Like, the lights are going to affect them. 7:48:39 The people around are going to affect them. 7:48:41 And then standing in line is going to affect them. 7:48:44 You feel almost drunk. 7:48:46 And I haven't had a drink since 2019. 7:48:50 You feel the symptoms just having POTS. 7:48:54 You get really dizzy, almost like it can be the room spinning, but it can also just be like a general dizziness. 7:48:59 And this is a chronic symptom. 7:49:01 So most of us, I would say, have that. 7:49:04 A lot of us have GI issues. 7:49:06 A feeding tube has been brought up by my doctor. 7:49:09 I still have GI issues, but I have found good protein. 7:49:13 It's a vegan. 7:49:14 A lot of us can only have certain foods every day, certain things, because if we change that, then 7:49:20 we're back throwing up, we're back. 7:49:22 So our regimen as someone with POTS, like it has to be pretty consistent. 7:49:27 We have to absolutely do our care plan every single day. 7:49:30 Otherwise we won't, I wouldn't be able to even do this. 7:49:34 It, yeah. Speaker 22
7:49:36 Melissa, thank you. 7:49:37 Thank you very much. 7:49:38 Oh, go ahead, Mr. Dolan. Speaker 9
7:49:41 Yeah. 7:49:41 Thank, thank you very much for, for sharing your story. 7:49:45 Um, 7:49:47 And, you know, I have to catch a flight here in a few minutes, but, you know, so I've been listening to, obviously, all the different experiences people have been having, and it's heart-wrenching. 7:49:58 It's heart-wrenching, I must admit. 7:50:01 And I want to say thank you to MP Ellison and Sean just for bringing this out, you know, because... 7:50:11 to validate what people have been suffering. 7:50:14 And I think a lot more people are suffering than they even know that they're, they're going through things that aren't even sure that, you know, what the reasons are. 7:50:21 And, and so I just, uh, say, want to say thank you to yourself and to all those, everyone else that you're even to tomorrow that have, um, 7:50:30 You know, Dan, taking the effort to sacrifice the time to come here to share this and, you know, we want to get the message out and have a way forward and hopefully better, you know, recompense also for some of these problems. 7:50:52 But again, just want to say thank you and thank you to the hosts for hosting this. Speaker 14
7:50:59 True. 7:51:00 Thank you very much. Speaker 15
7:51:00 Thank you. Speaker 17
7:51:06 So our next witness is Noah Barclay. 7:51:09 Noah, can you put the Bible in your right hand? Speaker 17
7:51:13 Noah Barclay, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Speaker 17
7:51:21 Noah, I'd like to just introduce you to the inquiry. 7:51:25 You're currently 28, so... 7:51:29 When we're talking about what happened, were you 23 or 24? 7:51:32 I was 23. 7:51:33 23. 7:51:33 Because you still look like super young. 7:51:38 So you're 28 now, but you're 23 for the events you're going to talk about. 7:51:43 You were at Algonquin College to become an electrician. 7:51:47 So you were in the, probably you're working and then you go to class a little and then you're working. 7:51:52 You're very physical, working full time. 7:51:54 You also went to the gym two or three times a week back then. 7:51:58 Yeah. 7:51:59 You played hockey, you golfed, you hunted and fished. 7:52:03 You had no previous health concerns, no medication. 7:52:06 So basically you're this 23 year old buff, fit guy, hockey player that hunted and fished. 7:52:13 Okay. 7:52:14 But that changed. 7:52:16 So on July 21st, 2021, you get your first and only shot, which was the Pfizer. 7:52:23 Can you share with us what happened? Speaker 16
7:52:26 So, 7:52:27 After I got the shot, I felt fine afterwards. 7:52:32 I never got COVID. 7:52:35 And then I think it was about a month afterwards, I woke up on a Saturday morning and I had some chest pains and I thought maybe it was just a back cramp or something. 7:52:46 And so I tried to stretch it out and I ended up kind of collapsing a little bit. 7:52:51 And then I said to my mom, I think I might be having a heart attack. 7:52:55 And at the time, 7:52:57 It didn't really seem like something that was real. 7:53:01 And anyway, she drove me to the Kentville hospital and they hooked me up to an EKG machine and did blood work. 7:53:10 And my enzyme levels were at 430. 7:53:12 And for a normal person, my age, the enzyme levels should be at 40. Speaker 17
7:53:18 And I'm just going to slow down. 7:53:20 This is like a marker that they test for to see if you've had a heart attack, right? 7:53:24 Yes. 7:53:25 so um if there's been damage to the heart it's going to release this enzyme and yours is at 400. uh it was at 730. oh okay and it should be it should be at 40. right okay so they basically tell you you have had a heart attack yeah and then they they didn't really know what was going on so they put me in a room right away and started doing some more tests and then um Speaker 16
7:53:54 They put me on hydromorphine and a few other medications. 7:53:57 And then my heart kind of settled down a little bit. 7:54:01 And I was in Kenfield Hospital for three days, I believe. Speaker 17
7:54:05 Right. 7:54:06 But that night at the hospital, so your first night at the hospital, something happens because you get up, go to the bathroom. 7:54:13 Can you share with us what happened? Speaker 16
7:54:15 I got up in the middle of the night to go to the washroom. 7:54:18 And when I went back to the hospital bed to lay down, I had severe, 7:54:24 chest pains and so I rang the nurse button right away and the nurses came in and I don't remember exactly but they were very concerned and gave me some more medication, did some more tests and my enzyme levels were actually at 1100 and something at that time. Speaker 17
7:54:47 And the nurse said something to you which is very important. Speaker 16
7:54:50 Yeah, the nurse told me that most men in their 30s don't survive that. 7:54:56 And the doctors were pretty hesitant to say that it was a heart attack at first. 7:55:01 But all the nurses told me that those levels indicate that you've had a heart attack. 7:55:07 And I was rushed to the Ottawa Heart Institute because they didn't know what was going on with me. 7:55:16 And then I spent seven days at the Heart Institute. 7:55:20 That's the Ottawa Heart Institute. 7:55:22 Yes. 7:55:24 And they also didn't really know what was going on. 7:55:27 My heart rate wouldn't settle down. 7:55:29 It was just fluctuating all the time. 7:55:32 And I wasn't allowed to leave the hospital bed for seven days. 7:55:36 I could only get up and go to the washroom, and that was it. 7:55:39 I wasn't allowed to shower or walk around. Speaker 17
7:55:43 Just so I'm clear, you're 23 years old. Speaker 17
7:55:46 You're at the Ottawa Heart Institute, which you're not expecting to be at, and they're even telling you don't leave the bed. 7:55:53 They want you to go to the bathroom and the bedpan and everything. Speaker 16
7:55:59 And because of COVID restrictions, the whole time I was by myself in both hospitals. 7:56:06 I couldn't have any visitors. 7:56:09 It wasn't until, I think, five days I was allowed to ask 7:56:14 the people at the desk in the hospital if I could have somebody come and visit me. 7:56:20 And my parents came to see me, obviously. Speaker 17
7:56:24 What's going on in your mind, like in your emotions? Speaker 16
7:56:29 I wasn't really sure what to think. 7:56:35 I didn't really know if I was going to live. 7:56:42 for quite a few years afterwards, I didn't know, I didn't think I was going to live to be 26, to be 100% honest with you. 7:56:50 And it's still in the back of my mind almost every day that it may happen again because they told me that it may happen again. 7:56:59 They don't know what caused it because they didn't want to say that it was vaccine related. 7:57:06 And then it was, I was off work for, 7:57:11 Two months. 7:57:13 And then I was only working part-time for three months after that. 7:57:20 And I couldn't get my heart rate up or do physical activity for six months after I was released from the hospital. Speaker 23
7:57:30 Can I ask you a question? Speaker 17
7:57:32 Because I'm at an age where pre-COVID, I've never heard before of a 23-year-old 7:57:40 having multiple heart attacks where the nurses are surprised the person lived and where they're in Ottawa Health Institute or any other health institute for seven days where they're being told to like not even at age 23. 7:57:56 And you're telling us, well, they don't want to say it's vaccine injury. 7:58:00 Did they tell you what it was? Speaker 16
7:58:02 Uh, they never, a couple of nurses, um, told me that it was probably caused by the vaccine, but none of the doctors ever confirmed that. Speaker 17
7:58:12 And, um, after I was released from the hospital, I was, but let me just stop you there. 7:58:18 I mean, you've had a heart attack and they haven't told you why. Speaker 17
7:58:22 You had two heart attacks. 7:58:23 You're, you're lucky to be alive and nobody's telling you why, like I'm having trouble. 7:58:31 This isn't computing. Speaker 16
7:58:32 Yeah, it didn't really compete with me either. Speaker 17
7:58:38 So you're back at school, you're trying to get, or back at work because you're apprenticing. Speaker 16
7:58:45 And it was probably four months after I had been released from the hospital. 7:58:51 I was driving home from work one day and every time I took a breath, I would have a pain in my chest. 7:58:58 And I actually started to collapse behind the wheel. 7:59:00 And so I started to make my way to the Kemphill Hospital because that's the closest one to me at the time. 7:59:08 And by the time I got to the 416 exit to Kemphill, the pain went away. 7:59:16 So being young and dumb, I just decided to go back home. 7:59:20 And then I was told that that was not a very smart decision. 7:59:27 And then everything seemed fine up until this year, actually. 7:59:32 It was Friday, July 10th, I think. 7:59:37 Yeah, July 10th. 7:59:39 I woke up and it was the same kind of scenario. 7:59:41 I had some chest pains. 7:59:44 And I said, I went to stretch and I collapsed on the kitchen island. 7:59:48 And I told my mom, I think you should take me to the hospital. 7:59:53 Um, so we got to the hospital and I was diagnosed with myocarditis. 7:59:59 Um, and so I was off work again for three weeks and then went back part time for two weeks. Speaker 14
8:00:06 And I'm, I'm now back at work full time. 8:00:15 So, um, you did make 26. Speaker 14
8:00:19 You're 28. 8:00:19 Um, Speaker 17
8:00:22 Do you have concerns that you're not going to be here for long? Speaker 16
8:00:26 Yeah, mostly because it happened again and they told me that they don't know if it'll happen again. 8:00:32 They can't tell me what to do to prevent it from happening. 8:00:36 They don't know if it'll be as severe or less severe. Speaker 14
8:00:40 There's a lot of unknowns, so. Speaker 17
8:00:45 How have your vaccine injuries affected your relationships? Speaker 16
8:01:00 I'm sure I've been a little hesitant to get into a relationship because of it, just because you don't know if you're going to be here or not be here. Speaker 14
8:01:10 Yeah. 8:01:17 Okay. Speaker 17
8:01:18 And I just, 8:01:20 You were part of a COVID-19 study at the Ottawa Heart Institute, and they determined that vaccination was the cause of this. 8:01:28 Yes. 8:01:30 So it's pretty conclusive in your case. 8:01:36 What's been the most difficult part of this? Speaker 16
8:01:39 Probably the mental toll and the anxiety and mild fluctuations of depression that come with it. 8:01:48 And just the constant unknown. Speaker 22
8:02:01 Well, thanks for coming. 8:02:02 Thanks for having me. 8:02:03 Appreciate being here. 8:02:05 I'm just wondering, you said you're back to work full time. Speaker 22
8:02:09 But, you know, as part of the concern about, you know, where you're at, 8:02:12 how would you sort of determine your health today? 8:02:14 Like, do you try and take it easy, or are you walking again? 8:02:18 Like, what goes on with that? Speaker 16
8:02:20 I do try and take it easy for the most part. 8:02:24 I do notice, and I'm not sure if it's related or not, but I do notice whenever I do a lot of physical activity or I'm working really hard, I do have minor chest pains, but not near as severe as when I had the heart attacks. 8:02:40 But 8:02:41 if I just kind of relax and calm down a bit, it'll go away. Speaker 22
8:02:46 So do you, have you, when was the last time you sort of like had an incident or were concerned or even, I mean, does your heart race or do you ever rip the other? 8:02:54 Or is it just. Speaker 16
8:02:56 Um, it, well, today it was racing a little bit. 8:03:01 No, that's probably our fault though. 8:03:04 Um, but, um, no, not on a regular basis. 8:03:08 Uh, 8:03:09 I feel pretty normal. Speaker 22
8:03:10 You've been good for a while, like six months a year? Speaker 16
8:03:13 Well, up until this year, like I was good for four or five years, and then up until June 10th or July 10th, then it just kind of happened again and kind of brings your mood down a little bit. Speaker 22
8:03:31 Yeah. 8:03:31 And are you working out now or are you doing anything? 8:03:35 Once again, even under kind of a restricted... Speaker 16
8:03:38 I haven't started working out again since this happened again recently, but I plan on working out eventually. Speaker 14
8:03:49 Thank you. 8:03:50 Thank you very much. 8:03:50 All right, Glen. Speaker 18
8:03:57 Thank you for being here today, Noah. Speaker 23
8:04:00 And I apologize, I had to take a call and I missed some of your testimony, but I was surprised that 8:04:09 Your first diagnosis or your first incident was six, five years ago. Speaker 23
8:04:16 So we're right in the middle of it. 8:04:18 Did you have any resistance from any doctors? 8:04:24 Did anybody suggest during that time that it could be from the vaccine? Speaker 16
8:04:30 I said before a couple of nurses had suggested that it was probably caused from the vaccine. 8:04:36 Back then already? 8:04:36 Back then, yeah. 8:04:38 Did the doctor? 8:04:39 The doctors never confirmed that or said that. 8:04:43 They just said, we're not sure what's going on with you. 8:04:45 We're going to try and figure this out. Speaker 23
8:04:47 So since then, the doctors that treated you previously, are they aware of the Ottawa study that you've had? Speaker 14
8:04:56 I believe so. Speaker 23
8:04:59 All right. Speaker 15
8:05:01 So how do you move forward? Speaker 14
8:05:05 Good question. Speaker 23
8:05:08 one day at a time is there anything that any of the medical profession has told you that could mitigate your you know the chance of it reoccurring they they told me that the it's more likely to happen if I have a bad cold or pneumonia but I I Speaker 16
8:05:33 When it happened this summer, I hadn't had a cold in six months, and I've never had pneumonia in my life. 8:05:40 So it's kind of, they didn't really know why it happened again. Speaker 23
8:05:48 So this obviously has impacted your employment. Speaker 23
8:05:52 And what's that relationship like? Speaker 16
8:05:56 With my employer? 8:05:58 Good. 8:05:58 He's very understanding of it. Speaker 17
8:06:03 i wish you all the best thank you thank you for being here today no uh um we're very grateful that you came here today and uh shared with us it was interesting just how we schedule witnesses we you know had young drew taylor who uh 8:06:32 I had a bad reaction and then we have you and you're young. 8:06:36 And I don't think any of the panels, no offense to anyone, we're older. 8:06:43 And I don't think we have that stress that you have. 8:06:47 And I assume it's your mother that's here. 8:06:50 So thank you for coming. 8:06:52 We're honored to have both of you. 8:06:54 Thank you. Speaker 22
8:06:58 I think I mentioned that when I said hi to him over there. Speaker 17
8:07:04 So, okay, well, we'll move on to our next witness, but thank you so much for coming. Speaker 14
8:07:10 Thank you for having me. Speaker 17
8:07:15 So our next witness, are you still constable? Speaker 31
8:07:20 Detective, as I like to say now. Speaker 17
8:07:23 Okay. 8:07:23 Oh, yes. 8:07:24 Well, that'll be part of the story. Speaker 17
8:07:27 So just write that down. 8:07:30 Second class. 8:07:35 So our next witness is Constable Helen Gruss of the Ottawa Police Department. 8:07:40 Helen, will you take the Bible in your right hand? 8:07:43 So Constable Helen Gruss, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 8:07:49 So help me God. Speaker 17
8:07:52 Can you share with us, obviously everyone already knows that you're with the Ottawa Police Force, but can you share with us just a little bit of your history as a police officer? Speaker 31
8:08:02 Yes, I've been a police officer since 2003. 8:08:06 I was hired on, I spent several years on patrol, doing patrol things, you know, catching speeders and responding to 911 calls. 8:08:13 In 2007, I moved into a general investigative unit where we investigate everything from shop theft to attempt homicide. 8:08:23 It's a wide range of investigations, a lot of sudden deaths that we attend there. 8:08:27 because we catch everything that's not a homicide in our general investigations. 8:08:32 2016, I was moved into the Sexual Assault Child Abuse Unit. 8:08:38 SACA is the acronym. 8:08:41 And I'm currently, I was there until 2022, and I'm, since 2022, I've been in the Ottawa Police Robbery Unit as a detective. Speaker 17
8:08:50 Right, yeah, you got moved out in 2022. 8:08:52 But this unit that you moved into in 2017... 8:08:58 part of its responsibility would be investigating any unusual deaths, including baby deaths or infant deaths. Speaker 31
8:09:07 That's correct. 8:09:08 So SACA in that unit, it stands for sexual assault, child abuse, so all sexual assaults and child abuse, and then all sudden unexplained, unexpected deaths and children under five years old would come to our unit. 8:09:22 And we'd partner up with one homicide detective and investigate those. Speaker 17
8:09:26 Right. 8:09:27 So I think the important thing for people to understand is, so it's your specific job to look into things like baby deaths that are unexplained. Speaker 31
8:09:38 Absolutely. 8:09:40 We look into every single baby death that happens outside of the hospital. 8:09:46 Police look into every death that occurs outside of hospital. 8:09:49 In SACA specifically, baby deaths up until children to five years old. Speaker 17
8:09:54 Okay. 8:09:55 And that's, I mean, these are our most vulnerable people and it would seem, it just seems to me that it makes sense to have a unit tasked to investigate unexplained baby deaths. 8:10:07 If they're in the hospital, there's going to be a medical reason given. 8:10:11 So any sudden death or unexplained death, a drowning, SIDS, whatever, you guys are investigating it to make sure that there's nothing unusual happening. Speaker 31
8:10:22 That's correct. Speaker 17
8:10:23 Okay. 8:10:24 Now, COVID hits, what happens? Speaker 31
8:10:30 So COVID hits and... Let me ask you this question. Speaker 17
8:10:35 Did you see any unusual pattern of infant death when COVID hit pre-vaccine? Speaker 31
8:10:45 No. 8:10:45 So the first time that I was alerted to anything out of ordinary was in January 2022. 8:10:51 So it was... 8:10:55 COVID hit March 2020, the pandemic was called. 8:11:00 Moving forward, December 2020 is when the vaccines were approved in the world, if I get some dates off. 8:11:05 But I know in May 2021, NACI actually recommended the mRNA vaccinations to pregnant and breastfeeding mothers, stating they're safe and effective for mothers who are either pregnant or breastfeeding. 8:11:21 And it was January 2022. 8:11:22 And a colleague of mine in the SACA unit came to me with concerns saying, Helen, I don't know what's going on, but there's been a doubling or tripling of baby deaths in the last year. 8:11:34 And so we were concerned, not just I, but other officers, detectives in our unit. 8:11:41 And a couple of days later, I had a town hall meeting with then police chief Peter Slowly. 8:11:47 there were pending mandates at the Ottawa police service because they had implemented a vaccination policy that if you were not fully vaccinated by the end of January or declared your status, you would be sent home on leave without pay February 1st, 2022. 8:12:03 So we had a meeting a couple of days after this colleague came to me and that day before going into this town hall meeting with the chief, I actually went into our records management system to 8:12:16 query the data to see if in fact we had a doubling or tripling of baby deaths, unexplained baby deaths, because that was resting on my shoulders. 8:12:24 That worried me. 8:12:25 It's a huge concern. 8:12:26 Even one loss of a baby is tragic. 8:12:30 So when I went to the system, we went normally from two to three unexplained baby deaths. 8:12:34 There's a difference between unexplained and the ones that end up being explained as a choking or unexpected smothering when a parent is co-sleeping and they lay down on the baby accidentally. 8:12:45 So unexplained baby deaths are the unexplained medical conditions where you put the baby to sleep in bed, doesn't wake up. 8:12:54 So going into this meeting, I queried the data. 8:12:56 In fact, I had seen that there had been seven cases came up. 8:13:00 I was able to look into six of them. 8:13:02 One of them was privatized. 8:13:04 And so, again, that number, I went in there, made sure I was not counting a choking or a smothering or a drowning case. 8:13:12 And so I end up with this number of six confirmed cases. 8:13:15 I thought, well, it is a doubling, tripling, depending if you're looking at two a year or three a year in the past. 8:13:21 And I brought that up to the chief of police. 8:13:23 And there were a couple other executive for health and safety was there as well. 8:13:28 And I explained just I said, I'm not here to make conclusions because I don't know what causes babies to die at this time. 8:13:38 But we have had an increase. 8:13:40 There's one thing that has changed. 8:13:42 It's the vaccination that came out last year. 8:13:45 But again, I was very clear to say, I don't know if that's what it is, but we need to flag this and keep track of it. 8:13:54 I also, when I had gone into those records, I had seen that a couple of cases were not concluded thoroughly. 8:14:00 When we investigate sudden, unexpected deaths in infants, there's what's called a SUTI questionnaire in Ontario. 8:14:06 It was put together with the coroner's and pathologist's office. 8:14:09 It's a series, there's over a hundred, well over a hundred questions that we must ask during the course of this investigation. 8:14:18 So some of the cases did not have that SUTI questionnaire completed. 8:14:22 There's one case that had been concluded within 24 hours of the baby dying. 8:14:28 So no autopsy results had been received. 8:14:31 And that concerned me as a detective. 8:14:33 I've been a detective since 2007. 8:14:36 So just looking at this, I thought... Speaker 17
8:14:39 So let me just slow this down because you've been in this unit since 2017. 8:14:43 2016, yeah. 8:14:43 And I imagine that... 8:14:51 bore an investigation into an unexplained death of a baby, that there was kind of a certain standard that you would see amongst all the officers in the unit that were doing this. 8:15:00 Was there a change here in the level of investigation that was done? Speaker 31
8:15:06 Again, I can only... 8:15:09 There I'd have to speculate. 8:15:11 So there was no... 8:15:13 The policy remained. 8:15:14 We were supposed to complete the SUTI questionnaires. 8:15:19 And... 8:15:21 So to say that there was a change, I think it's more potentially a lack of experience with some of the officers. 8:15:27 And so I can't speak to... 8:15:31 But the policy had not changed. 8:15:33 It was her policy that the SUNY questionnaire was to be completed thoroughly by ourselves or the coroners, but the police have to ensure that that is done. 8:15:43 And as I said, the one case that was concluded, I was... 8:15:46 What struck me, there was an add on to that. 8:15:49 There was two of these baby cases through talk in the unit that I had found out that when the parents, the babies were sent home healthy, the parents picked them up to feed them and they collapsed and died in the parents' arms. 8:16:03 At that time, I'd been a police officer for 19 years. 8:16:07 I had never heard of that as a police officer. 8:16:12 So in that career time that I had, 8:16:16 It's those two weeks that I lost sleep because something was wrong. 8:16:23 I had told the chief of police on January 13th, 2022, I was sent home on leave without pay February 1st, 2022. 8:16:32 And by February 4th, I was suspended for accessing RMS records for personal reasons, allegedly, and for printing coroner reports. Speaker 17
8:16:45 I just want to slow us down here. 8:16:50 There's really two things that are sticking out as an investigator that are not normal. 8:16:57 First of all, there's literally a doubling in the number that you would expect in the Ottawa region of babies that have died and it's unexplained. 8:17:08 We already have an outlier, something that needs to be looked into, but then in two of those, the 8:17:16 the parents, the baby's alive. 8:17:19 The parents have picked up the baby to feed and basically in the parents' arms, the baby just dies, just dies. Speaker 31
8:17:27 And on top of that, upon speaking with the one detective who had one of the cases, because I did speak with him a couple of times about that case, he explained that the baby had an enlarged heart. 8:17:39 The autopsy found that that baby had an enlarged heart. 8:17:43 And I had been... 8:17:49 I found that out, but I remember it was January 17th that I tuned into a public health, a Toronto public health webinar where Mr. Dan Hartman spoke about his 17-year-old son, Sean Hartman, who had taken the Pfizer vaccine. 8:18:05 And I don't want to speak to too much, but I do have to, what's significant, he had taken the Pfizer vaccine of August 2021. 8:18:10 had side effects. 8:18:12 September 2021, the family found him deceased in his room. 8:18:15 And upon autopsy, the boy had an enlarged heart. 8:18:18 Sean had an enlarged heart and that's what caused his sudden death. 8:18:22 So with this baby that was picked up, went limp and died, essentially sounds like a heart attack. 8:18:28 For a healthy baby to have a heart attack. 8:18:32 Again, it left me sleepless. Speaker 17
8:18:35 Right. 8:18:35 So for your entire time as a police officer, 8:18:38 you hadn't had two weeks like that where you couldn't sleep because you're now literally obviously coming to the belief that babies are dying and it may be connected to the COVID vaccine. Speaker 31
8:18:53 It may be, it may not be, but I, and to this day, I still stand that there needs to be a thorough investigation. 8:18:59 So when we have the one case that was concluded within 24 hours of no autopsy report being 8:19:07 reviewed by the investigator, it was that that concerned me. 8:19:11 So I brought that up and it came up actually, sorry, when I was suspended then, February 4th. Speaker 17
8:19:19 And you're suspended for starting to look into it. Speaker 31
8:19:23 For just questioning, for bringing up a concern to the chief of police. 8:19:27 Yeah. Speaker 17
8:19:28 So it's your job to look into this. 8:19:32 You're actually on a unit that's responsible for this. 8:19:36 It's a database that you're free to access at any time. 8:19:41 That's why you have access. Speaker 31
8:19:42 It's a police database that we use. 8:19:45 We input the information for our colleagues to share amongst each other when we're conducting investigations. 8:19:50 So it's our own service. 8:19:53 It's not a privacy breach when we access these records for the purpose of police business, which this was. 8:19:59 I received a concern that there's a doubling, tripling. 8:20:02 The stats show that there in fact was. 8:20:04 There was a 8:20:07 a very significant change in how two babies died. 8:20:12 And we've always been told as police officers, when you see something, you say something. 8:20:17 If you see something suspicious, you speak up. 8:20:21 And I did that. 8:20:23 So it sent a very strong message, especially during that time of COVID, that if you say something that might implicate these vaccinations, even the hint of implicating them, 8:20:37 You better not do that. 8:20:38 Don't go there. 8:20:38 You might get suspended. Speaker 17
8:20:42 Right. 8:20:42 Well, you were actually subject to disciplinary proceedings. Speaker 31
8:20:50 That's correct. 8:20:50 So while I was on suspension, I used that time to research, to dig in. 8:20:56 And I had gathered some information because of the pending mandates. 8:21:00 I wanted to know if these vaccinations are safe or not. 8:21:02 I have children of my own. 8:21:04 So do I give them not? 8:21:05 I called my best friend who happens to be an RN to ask her advice. 8:21:09 So I've been doing some questions. 8:21:11 And when I was on suspension, I started reading and I collected, by the time I was brought in for my professional standards compelled interview, I had 10 binders of information or what police would call evidence. 8:21:24 I had the Pfizer documents, whatever I could pull from Public Health Agency of Canada. 8:21:30 I had also pulled different documents 8:21:33 like Twitter videos that our public health officials were telling everybody, including pregnant mothers and breastfeeding mothers, that these vaccines are safe and effective. 8:21:43 Yet the Pfizer documents we had in our own country here showed that they had never been tested on pregnant or breastfeeding women, mothers. 8:21:52 There was no clinical data at that time. 8:21:56 So as a police officer, I'm like, how can you state that something safe and effective is 8:22:01 when you also know it's never been tested? Speaker 17
8:22:04 You know, I could slow you down. 8:22:08 Years ago after COVID started, I was involved in a forming organization of lawyers and retired police officers to start documenting evidence of potential crimes that were being committed during COVID so that the evidence wouldn't disappear. 8:22:26 And so we had to look into, well, what criminal code offenses and other offenses 8:22:30 would apply so we'd know what's relevant. 8:22:37 And it seems to me that the public representations being made on things like pregnancy, that those were actually issues the police should have been investigating. 8:22:53 How can public health officials be messaging one thing, which would be with the intention to 8:22:59 cause certain behavior when those public statements that are meant to induce people to do things are false. Speaker 31
8:23:09 And that is what I brought forward to the start. 8:23:13 So my chain of command changed when I was suspended. 8:23:15 I was reporting to the professional standards sergeant. 8:23:18 And that's why I brought these 10 binders of evidence stating I wasn't conducting investigation at that time. 8:23:24 But now that I've had a chance on suspension to read and really dig into this, this 8:23:29 It's concerning. 8:23:31 This should potentially be investigated. 8:23:33 Now, that was in May, May 12, 2022. 8:23:39 I was charged with discreditable conduct in July 2022. 8:23:47 I was actually offered a plea deal just to plead guilty, and they had these bullet points on there. 8:23:54 I would have essentially gotten a slap on the wrist, but 8:23:59 What they were proposing as the statement of facts was not accurate. 8:24:04 It was misleading. 8:24:06 And I remember just saying, I can't sign this. 8:24:08 Then I'd be discreditable because this is not true. 8:24:11 This is not what happened. 8:24:12 As a police officer, we have a duty to be honest, to have integrity, to speak truth. 8:24:19 So I took it to trial. 8:24:22 We had an over five-week tribunal that spanned months. 8:24:27 I just received my disposition or penalty a couple weeks ago. Speaker 17
8:24:35 Hence the second class detective, right? Speaker 31
8:24:38 Yes, I've been demoted for two years, which is a very significant penalty from first class to second class. 8:24:46 It's the most severe penalty bar dismissal of a police officer. Speaker 17
8:24:52 And it'll also affect things like pension and that going on because it affects your 8:24:57 your earnings and it affects any ability to basically climb the ladder going forward? Speaker 31
8:25:03 It has already. 8:25:04 Just while this tribunal was going on, it's been over four and a half years where my career has been essentially stalled. 8:25:12 But again, I like to look at the positive. 8:25:14 I'm blessed. 8:25:15 I still have a job. 8:25:16 I can still serve the citizens of Ottawa investigating robberies. 8:25:20 But it has stalled movement in my career. 8:25:22 And then it will do so for the next four years because a demotion stays 8:25:27 on record than for another two years after that. Speaker 17
8:25:30 So one thing that I'm, I'm finding fascinating here is because I'm guessing that the Ottawa police department has still not investigated why there was a cluster of baby deaths at this time, including two or, you know, live babies just died in their parents' arms. 8:25:48 Are you aware of the Ottawa police department doing an investigation into this? Speaker 31
8:25:54 So I can only speak to what I found out during the course of the four and a half year tribunal. 8:26:00 We asked for several records. 8:26:01 We were denied everything and we were denied many, many requested disclosure records that we wanted with my counsel. 8:26:14 And so I really don't know the answer to that question, whether any of the cases were reopened and thoroughly investigated. 8:26:22 Again, 8:26:23 I would only speculate and I don't like to speculate. Speaker 17
8:26:26 Fair enough. 8:26:27 But as an outsider, I can speculate. 8:26:29 And I find it very interesting, responsible groups, that because your case became very public, because you weren't willing to sign a form agreeing to facts that weren't true. 8:26:43 And there was a lot of publicity about your case. 8:26:46 There's a movie about your case. 8:26:51 Probably everyone in the gallery knows about your case. 8:26:54 The MPs probably don't know about your case. 8:26:57 But it was meant to be an example to other officers not to step out of line. 8:27:04 And in fact, the response to a single officer, you, standing up and saying, no, we should actually look into COVID vaccines, has caused a change in the law. 8:27:16 Can you share that with us? 8:27:17 Because this is frightening to me as a citizen. 8:27:21 So can you share with us the change to the law definitely? Speaker 31
8:27:25 So in April 1st, 2024, there was a change. 8:27:29 Actually, the Police Services Act is now the Community Police Services Act of Ontario. 8:27:34 I don't know. 8:27:35 I'm not going to say it's my case that triggered this because there were changes. 8:27:40 This law was actually being drafted as far back as 2019, I believe, maybe even previous to that. 8:27:45 But prior to April 1st, 2024, 8:27:49 Police officers, we have discretion. 8:27:51 We swear an oath to preserve life, protect the public, and to uphold the law. 8:27:58 And so when we're out and about in our police duties and we see a crime, if we see something, we say something, or we do something, we act. 8:28:06 We don't ask instructions because we are 8:28:09 We are guided by the law, by the Criminal Code of Canada and bylaws of the city and rules and regulations. 8:28:16 And if we see somebody breaching that, we have the autonomy and the discretion to act. 8:28:21 April 1st, 2024, under the Community Police Services Act, that has changed where we can still act immediately, but if we want to continue an investigation, we have to ask our supervisor permission. 8:28:34 Which... 8:28:35 could be very concerning. 8:28:37 Again, I don't want to speak to that. 8:28:38 I'll leave it at, you can all draw your own conclusions. Speaker 17
8:28:41 Let me speak to that, because I do want to speak to that. 8:28:42 So just so that everyone understands what Constable Grish is talking about. 8:28:46 And, you know, there's longstanding reasons for why police officers, individual officers, have the discretion to investigate whatever they want. 8:28:57 In that way, we have rule of law because it's not politicized. 8:29:01 So police officers in Canada... 8:29:04 tend to be very highly trained and they have the discretion and you have the discretion until April 21st, 2024. 8:29:10 If you thought that maybe a crime was being committed, you could investigate it and you didn't need to get permission. 8:29:18 So now the entire police force of Ontario has become less efficient because we've added a layer. 8:29:24 Now every officer has to spend the time going to a supervisor and every supervisor has to make a decision. 8:29:32 And 8:29:33 If something is politically inconvenient, such as COVID, they will nip any investigation in the bud. Speaker 31
8:29:46 What's happened in the tribunal that just finally concluded and is being appealed does send a strong message to all police officers in Canada because the case law that's been set right now carries over and 8:30:00 I encourage people to actually upload or download the March 25th, 2025 decision when I was actually found guilty because the tribunal officer actually spoke that, linked it to the concerns of me even questioning this, the political ramifications of such an investigation to be even considering that maybe the vaccinations caused harm to people. 8:30:27 So it's, but again, 8:30:31 it does send a strong message to all officers because this case can be used in other police tribunals. Speaker 17
8:30:38 Yeah, no, your case raises two questions. 8:30:43 It raises the question, it's just interesting because, as I say, I was involved in this other organization that was tasked to just preserving evidence for the future. 8:30:53 And are you aware of any single investigation into 8:30:59 crimes committed during COVID by any police force? Speaker 31
8:31:04 I'm not aware of any. Speaker 17
8:31:07 That's interesting. 8:31:08 And so I'll let... Sure. Speaker 22
8:31:13 I have a colleague in the room that is a former police officer. 8:31:17 I'm sure you want to ask some questions, Mr. Watts. Speaker 23
8:31:23 Thank you, Pete. 8:31:24 So thank you for your service, first of all, and thank you for... 8:31:28 being here and following your conscience doing what's right. 8:31:34 So just a couple of quick questions. 8:31:36 In Ontario, your tribunal is made up of whom? Speaker 31
8:31:43 My tribunal specifically was a retired superintendent of the Ottawa Police Service. Speaker 23
8:31:47 So you had one hearing officer? Speaker 31
8:31:49 One hearing officer and a former member of my own service, yes. Speaker 23
8:31:55 And when you had the... 8:31:58 conversation with the chief of police early on who was that chief was it still slowly that was slowly and deputy chief Ferguson was there as well yes um so when you were having these concerns did any other detectives in in your unit the child unit have a share your concerns Speaker 31
8:32:27 Yes, obviously, because it was about January 10th. 8:32:31 It's the officer, actually one of my fellow SACA detectives, that brought this concern up to me. 8:32:36 So I was not alone in this. Speaker 23
8:32:38 Are you aware of any instructions that went back from the hierarchy within Ottawa Police Service that directed those people, like those detectives, not to pursue those investigations? Speaker 31
8:32:51 I'm not aware of any. Speaker 23
8:32:54 You... 8:32:56 said a couple times that you found it very odd that there would be no autopsy on one of those deaths. Speaker 31
8:33:02 So the autopsy was completed, but the detective never reviewed it before concluding it as non-suspicious within 24 hours. 8:33:11 And that's just a preliminary autopsy. 8:33:13 So autopsies are typically conducted, and they are, like they must be on all, suiting on sudden unexpected deaths in infants. 8:33:22 But again, what's concerning for me is the fact that 8:33:26 the detectives in SACA were not, some of them were not completing these investigations, and that was brought up in the tribunal. Speaker 23
8:33:40 Do you, I want to ask you a question, but I don't want you to answer it if it's going to put you in some jeopardy for your career. Speaker 4
8:33:49 Right, I understand. Speaker 23
8:33:50 So, do you have a sense that 8:33:56 This is, as Mr. Buckley's indicated, I find it very odd that there'd be some pressure to not pursue a fulsome, complete investigation on anything. 8:34:13 But did you get a sense that there was some inconvenient truth being covered? 8:34:22 Or they didn't want the publicity? 8:34:23 Or... 8:34:25 you know, or what, you know, what would have been the motivation behind, you know, the conversation of having you basically stand down from pursuing something? Speaker 31
8:34:38 Yes, and that would actually go back to September 9, 2021. 8:34:40 I had sent out 8:34:43 an email to our organization initially for my chain of command all the way up the ranks, but also on what's called a miscellaneous board to all my colleagues. 8:34:51 I voiced some concerns. 8:34:53 That email is actually very public. 8:34:55 It got leaked out. Speaker 23
8:34:57 I guess it has to do with getting vaccinated. Speaker 31
8:35:00 That had to do with, yes. 8:35:01 And I just raised concerns that before anybody actually, that was at that time, 8:35:08 all members were supposed to declare their status, their medical status, which again, as a police officer, to get somebody else's medical status, we either need consent or warrant. 8:35:20 And that's how I addressed it. 8:35:21 I said, you know, and for all these mandates to be imposed, it was a lengthy email. 8:35:28 So that put that, I guess that would have flagged me in the service with a certain group of people. 8:35:36 I received a lot of, 8:35:38 Many, many officers and civilians reached out to me after that, thanking me that they were not alone in their concerns over what was transpiring with the lockdowns and the looming mandates. 8:35:50 But that definitely, I think, put me on. 8:35:51 And it came out in tribunal. 8:35:54 Some of the officers who testified after reading that email concluded that I'm a right wing conspiracy theorist. 8:36:02 I was also called an anti-masker, an anti-vaxxer, and all of a sudden the names started flying around about who I was. 8:36:08 I was told by my sergeant to not talk about, and actually I received an email from my supervisor, my higher supervisor, to never discuss COVID in the SACA office. 8:36:20 So when these concerns came up with the doubling, tripling of baby deaths and with the two babies that had collapsed and died in their parents' arms, I was concerned. 8:36:32 who to go to. 8:36:33 But yeah, it was actually because I had that meeting scheduled, the town hall meeting, I thought, well, here we go. 8:36:40 I'm going to present it to the chief of police. Speaker 23
8:36:41 Did all these things transpire after Ottawa Police Service had put on, you know, an order or mandate for everybody to be vaccinated? Speaker 31
8:36:51 So the email itself, no, that came out before the mandates. 8:36:55 Your email? 8:36:56 Yes, my email. 8:36:58 I sent that out 8:36:59 a month it was at the end of October 2021 that Ottawa Police Service put in a mandate then that we all members had to be double vaccinated or they would be sent home by the 1st of February 2022. Speaker 23
8:37:17 So you painted a target on yourself? 8:37:20 I did. 8:37:20 That's how you feel? Speaker 31
8:37:22 I actually, I found it liberating because so many officers and members reached out that essentially we ended up just with the, like the react 19, we found each, we found each other that we're not alone and that, and it actually brought me hope that there are other members in our service that, that see it exactly that, you know, as I did. Speaker 23
8:37:48 Did anybody else in your service, um, 8:37:52 Were they disciplined for not taking the vaccine or lose their job as a result? Speaker 31
8:38:00 So members were, on February 1st, 2022, Ottawa Police Service members were sent home on leave without pay. 8:38:04 That was actually the CBC reported audit on that. 8:38:10 So yes, there were implications. Speaker 23
8:38:13 And what's surprising, I think, as MPs, many of our offices, if not all of our offices, would have had complaints from the public 8:38:22 who themselves are experiencing the same sort of friction with their employer where they're conflicted between, you know, you have to get the vaccinations or you are suspended. 8:38:34 And if you're suspended for length of time, you're going to lose your job basically. 8:38:37 And I mean, I know I received many of them. 8:38:40 You know, I have a military base here by, you know, federal that they were, many of those people were struggling. 8:38:46 Some of them lost their jobs as a result and others. 8:38:49 So, you know, I am, 8:38:53 you know, I am perplexed that, you know, as I think Mr. Buckley alluded to previously on another witness, that the reach of these mandates and what was going on had far-reaching impacts on multiple industries and services and, you know, public perception. 8:39:16 Are you receiving any sort of blowback from this other than 8:39:21 the recent decision, but from other members of the service. Speaker 31
8:39:26 Again, there's a select number of members that don't agree with me even pursuing for pleading not guilty and going through the tribunal process and the appeal that's going to be moving forward, I pray. 8:39:42 But again, it's a free country. 8:39:43 I believe in freedom. 8:39:44 We have a freedom to have that opinion. 8:39:46 At least I pray we do still. 8:39:49 And for me, I think from day one, what was most important for me, I wanted that conversation and communication. 8:39:55 That was all shut down. 8:39:57 And it was definitely shut down when people were sent home on leave without pay because we were ostracized. 8:40:02 There's a large population that were simply ostracized. 8:40:08 And it still happens to this day, unfortunately. Speaker 23
8:40:10 True. 8:40:11 So moving forward, how do, you know, your plan moving forward, I'm sure, 8:40:19 you know, will unfold as things do inside of play services and your skill sets. 8:40:24 We need to be rewarded for doing that. 8:40:27 But from a larger perspective, how do we get past the division that's occurred in organizations? 8:40:36 I mean, we have, it was mentioned earlier today, we have, you know, family members against family members in the divisions there inside of employers and employees, you know, friends, 8:40:50 employee to employee. 8:40:52 And there's division among people still about this issue. 8:40:55 And the name calling still exists if you, you know, even if you ask a question. 8:41:01 And, you know, how do we as a society, as legislators, how do we move forward to get past this? 8:41:11 Because I look back and I, when I saw, somebody mentioned SARS-CoV-2. 8:41:18 or H1N1 earlier. 8:41:19 Right. 8:41:20 Um, you know, and you would know this from your policing background, there's, there is emergency management protocols. Speaker 23
8:41:26 On everything, including a pandemic. Speaker 5
8:41:29 Absolutely. Speaker 23
8:41:30 And, um, this government failed Canadians on how they handled the pandemic, um, from day one, because they never involved the emergency management experts in it. 8:41:42 They didn't. Speaker 23
8:41:44 And, um, 8:41:46 So, I mean, again, there's a lot of fingers to point at. 8:41:49 You know, we can blame a lot of people, but we have to move beyond this so that it doesn't happen again. 8:41:55 And we can care for those who have been impacted by this negatively and get past the division. 8:42:02 How do you see it happening? Speaker 31
8:42:04 Well, I absolutely see this inquiry now. 8:42:06 And thank you, Dean Allison, for bringing this forward. 8:42:08 I see this as a huge move forward that we're giving people 8:42:14 people their voices back to be able to speak and be heard who's listening well right now we see it's a limited portion still but by spreading the word and being kind about it i'm a person of very strong faith my faith in god is very strong and i really lean to my faith in this and i would say you know not not to compare myself to jesus but what would jesus do right so and be kind forgive 8:42:40 And forgiveness is huge. 8:42:41 So I forgive the officers that dislike me. 8:42:44 I'm not angry with them. 8:42:46 I would love to sit down at a table with them and communicate. 8:42:48 I said that day one when I was brought back off my suspension in October 2022, I had a meeting with a couple of executives and I said, can we not just sit down at a table and talk? 8:43:03 No. 8:43:04 That was turned down. 8:43:04 So I think we can move forward now. 8:43:09 going back to my case i think what's important i've repeated this in my testimony at the tribunal there's an outfit i've completed a couple affidavits but there's one dated in january 2024 i do believe a criminal investigation should be conducted it's stated right in my affidavit it's important to note that through the disclosure that came out it's four and a half years 8:43:33 So information has come out. 8:43:35 Information about these babies has come out through evidence that was presented at the tribunal. 8:43:40 Of those babies that passed in that time frame, five of them, the causation of their deaths, those causes, they're all listed on Pfizer's 5.3.6 documents of side effects from the Pfizer vaccine. 8:44:00 It doesn't conclude that that's what 8:44:02 killed the babies, but further investigation must be done. 8:44:06 And this is what I've maintained. 8:44:09 I touched on it with my compelled interview with the Sergeant of Professional Standards, but in my affidavit, I again reiterated, given all the evidence, there's over 110 exhibits in my tribunal alone. 8:44:20 One of those exhibits is my 10 binders that I brought forward on a USB stick. 8:44:25 So I said, you know, there should be a criminal investigation here of criminal negligence. Speaker 23
8:44:34 For whom? 8:44:36 On whom? Speaker 31
8:44:37 That's where the investigate, follow the money. 8:44:39 I believe you follow the money and the evidence and where the evidence takes us. 8:44:42 Again, that's all we do as police officers. 8:44:45 We follow the evidence, but we don't ignore some stones just because they're prettier than others. Speaker 23
8:44:54 I noticed Mr. Drysdale shaking his head back there and nodding in agreement. 8:44:59 And I think they have some recommendations that I think fall in line 8:45:05 with what you're suggesting. 8:45:06 And I had a conversation with Mr. Buckley at the break about ways in which this inquiry doesn't get lost, the citizens' inquiry, their work doesn't get lost, and that we actually have some 8:45:31 some process moving forward to take the information and evidence that's been gathered. 8:45:36 And it's not about finding fault necessarily, but ensuring that we're gonna have another pandemic. 8:45:44 Guaranteed we're gonna have another pandemic of some sort. 8:45:48 And let's not repeat again and learn from what the mistakes were made in the past. 8:45:54 And it's about a learning exercise, I think. 8:45:56 And now there is a need for justice. 8:46:00 I agree to that. 8:46:04 But I think there's a lot of justice to be done. Speaker 22
8:46:10 And they're not just to one individual. Speaker 23
8:46:12 Anyway, I'll leave it there. 8:46:14 I'll get off my soapbox. Speaker 22
8:46:16 We appreciate you being here. 8:46:18 This guy flew in a red eye overnight so he could be here to hang out with us. 8:46:22 We appreciate that. 8:46:23 And Ms. Kirk, we thank you so much for... 8:46:25 I didn't know we were going to get a chance to have you in. 8:46:27 This wasn't planned originally, but 8:46:29 We're so grateful that you were able to take the time. 8:46:32 We appreciate the stand you've taken. 8:46:35 Really, I think the point of what we've been trying to do is that we want to give people permission to talk about difficult things. 8:46:42 Really, that's what it ultimately boils down to. 8:46:44 We've lost the ability in society to talk about difficult things. 8:46:48 We've lost the ability to agree to disagree, right? 8:46:51 Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I hate you. 8:46:54 It doesn't mean that we can't ever discuss anything. 8:46:56 And we've got to get back to that. 8:46:58 And the only way we get back to that is by being able to talk about difficult things. 8:47:04 We've lost that ability. 8:47:05 And I see legislation coming down that continues to encroach on our freedoms, continues to encroach on censorship. 8:47:13 And all that legislation that's happened has just happened since COVID, where the first part of the bill is not bad. 8:47:19 It's probably well-intentioned. 8:47:21 The back end of the bill talks about more censorship, 8:47:25 More overreach, more government overreach. 8:47:27 So I think that we should be allowed to talk about difficult things. 8:47:30 And that's what we're doing. 8:47:32 We're having a conversation. 8:47:33 We're giving those that have been injured permission to speak publicly about things they have not been able to talk about. 8:47:41 And we need to do that on a whole bunch of different topics. 8:47:44 But the topic I think that we're here to talk about today is those that are injured and giving them a voice and being allowed to have them to have a conversation with family members. 8:47:55 with neighbors, with community members. 8:47:58 And so it starts here. 8:48:00 And you're part of that discussion. 8:48:02 And we thank you for taking a stand and for doing what you believe is right, because it's never really that easy, is it? Speaker 31
8:48:10 No, but if you, again, focus on the good and God will get us where we need to be. Speaker 22
8:48:16 Well, listen, we're a little over time and I have to always thank our interpreters. 8:48:20 These guys do an amazing job. 8:48:22 Thank you very much for what you've done. 8:48:24 to all the volunteers that are here working every day. 8:48:27 We want to thank you to all the people in the audience and everyone that's watching around the world. 8:48:32 Thank you for being with us on day three. 8:48:35 We have one more day. 8:48:36 It's hard to believe that we've been through three days already out of our four possible. 8:48:40 So with that, I'm going to end the meeting and we'll see everybody at 8.30. 8:48:45 Meeting's adjourned.