Day 2
Day 2 · September 9, 2026 · 8:40:52
Key points Day 2 of the Allison Inquiry, a non-partisan citizen-led hearing in Ottawa, continues collecting testimony from Canadians who say they were injured by COVID-19 vaccines. The session is chaired by Member of Parliament Dean Allison, with Sean Buckley delivering opening remarks and helping question witnesses throughout the day. Morning witnesses include Michelle Worton, Vienna Demeduk, Cameron Hitchcock, Nathalie Barbe, Michael Oesch, Jasmeet Grewal, Kelly Shorkey, and Thor Hart, each recounting personal health and family impacts. Lawyer Daniel Freiheit speaks to legal and compensation issues, followed by a Reading of the Names of the Injured and a break featuring press conferences. Afternoon segments feature viral immunologist Dr. Jessica Rose and later Dr. Charles Hoffe, a British Columbia physician who describes nearly losing his medical license for raising concerns. Additional afternoon witnesses include James Freeland, Marylou Lavalle, Nicole Maurier, Julie Ivan, Eva Caven, and Jannine Duffy sharing their accounts. Recurring themes include reported dismissal by doctors, difficulty obtaining recognition and payouts from the Vaccine Injury Support Program, and fear of being labeled anti-vaccine.
Speaker
6:15 Thank you. 6:46 Thank you. Speaker 7
7:21 Thank you. 7:56 Thank you. Speaker 1
9:08 Thank you for joining us here in Ottawa and to those watching online from across Canada and around the world, thank you for tuning in. 9:16 Most importantly, I want to acknowledge the more than 1,400 vaccine-injured Canadians who have applied to appear as a witness before this inquiry and to the many others who continue to come forward. 9:26 To each of you, thank you for trusting us with your story. 9:32 We know we cannot hear from everyone during these four days, but that does not mean your experience is any less important. 9:37 We still want to hear your story, and we will continue to collect and document these experiences. 9:44 I also want to thank everyone who testified yesterday and had the courage to share deeply personal and, in many cases, heartbreaking stories. 9:52 And I want to thank Senator Ron Johnson, who joined us yesterday and shared what he has learned through five years of hearings, roundtables, and discussions with experts to help those that are affected. 10:04 I also want to recognize the independent media who are here with us in the room and who have helped give vaccine injured Canadians a platform to tell their stories. 10:14 The level of public interest has been remarkable. 10:18 On X alone, as of this morning, and according to X's numbers, there's been over 61,000 posts. 10:26 in less than 24 hours. 10:27 So well done. 10:27 Thank you very much to the independent media. 10:29 And it's funny, when I got in here, someone told me we're trending globally at number nine. 10:35 But before I could sit down, we were actually up to seven. 10:38 So you guys have already been busy this morning, I can tell you. 10:40 So thank you very much. 10:42 So I think that's remarkable, getting people's stories out that we are trending seven in the world in global news on X. 10:49 So congratulations to all 10:51 the injured that share, to all the independents that share, to tell people's stories. 10:55 I think that's so important. 10:56 Over the next three days, we'll continue listening to Canadians who report being injured following COVID-19 vaccinations. 11:02 We'll hear what has happened to them, how their lives and families have been affected, and what happened when they sought medical care, answers, recognition, and compensation. 11:13 Yesterday reminded me just how devastating these experiences can be. 11:17 For many, this is simply not about a physical injury. 11:21 It's about a mental and emotional stress that can accompany it. 11:25 It's about pressure placed on spouses, children, and loved ones. 11:30 And for some families, it has meant financial devastation. 11:34 From losing a job or being unable to work. 11:37 While, at the same time, trying to pay for treatments and medical care that are just simply not covered by any provincial or federal program. 11:47 I wonder how many people outside of this room actually understand that concept. 11:51 And that's why telling your stories is so important. 11:54 And finally, as a country, I believe that we need to seriously examine not only how vulnerable Canadians have been treated, but also how we've treated some of the men and women who serve our country in uniform. 12:04 Yesterday, we heard Michael's story and heard about the extraordinary brotherhood and sisterhood among members of the Canadian Armed Forces. 12:12 These are proud, loyal, and selfless Canadians who would give their lives 12:17 and have volunteered to serve our country. 12:20 To hear accounts from members who felt they had little meaningful choice regarding COVID-19 vaccinations, and who say that after experiencing serious health problems, they were left without the support they needed, should concern every Canadian. 12:35 Whatever our views on the policies in the pandemic, we should be able to agree on this. 12:40 When someone serves their country and becomes sick or injured, we simply do not cast them aside. 12:45 We stand by them. 12:46 Ultimately, that is what this inquiry is about, people. 12:51 It's about hearing from those who have been injured, understanding the challenges that they continue to face and have faced accessing medical care and compassion and compensation and making sure their experiences are documented and heard. 13:04 For too long, many have felt the need that nobody was listening. 13:08 Well, this week, we are listening. 13:10 And with that, let's begin day two of the inquiry. 13:14 I'm going to turn it over to my colleague, 13:17 Mr. Sean Buckley. Speaker 3
13:21 Thank you, Chairperson, Dean Allison. 13:25 I'm very honored to be here today. 13:27 Yesterday was an amazing experience for everyone who participated, and there were some unexpected things. 13:34 I was in an Uber coming here today, and we were listening to a song called The Blessing, which has become a theme for these proceedings. 13:47 And I was thinking about how amazing it is that in September of 2026, in Canada, we are afraid to speak about vaccine entry. 14:01 I spoke yesterday about how it's kind of Canada's dirty little secret. 14:06 We can't talk about it. 14:08 And we're afraid to be labeled as anti-vaxxers. 14:13 I don't know what a vaxxer is, but 14:16 I do know that I've been taught that the last thing you want to be called in Canada is an anti-vaxxer. 14:23 It is complete derision and it obligates the rest of society to alienate you and to silence you and remove your voice completely. 14:33 And many of our witnesses who ironically are not anti-vaxxers, they took the vaccine and were injured, but they're labeled that and they're afraid of being labeled that. 14:42 And so, you know, in 2026, 14:46 Medical doctors are afraid. 14:48 And when you think about that, these are highly trained professionals that have a lot of power in our society. 14:54 I mean, they make life and death decisions every day. 14:58 They're highly respected. 14:59 They have rights and privileges that other members of society don't have. 15:03 They're really the cream of the crop. 15:06 It's so difficult to get into medical school. 15:08 They have to work so hard. 15:10 The commitment is absolutely amazing. 15:12 And yet this privileged class 15:15 is afraid to speak against vaccines, which if you're acknowledging vaccine injury speaks against vaccines. 15:24 And I just want you to think about that as this privileged class is afraid. 15:31 It's not just the rest of us. 15:33 This is one of the most highly esteemed privileged classes in Canada, and they're afraid. 15:38 And when I was speaking about journalists, 15:41 I mean, journalists, especially for the mainstream media, the power that they wield, they have such a large audience. 15:50 They have a responsibility to the public to report fairly, to report both sides, to actually question things that we accept when there's evidence to suggest that we should start questioning. 16:08 And these people compete for these jobs. 16:11 I mean, 16:12 You're winning a lottery. 16:13 You've demonstrated ability. 16:15 You've just demonstrated competence. 16:17 You've worked in the lower level tiers of media for years and years before you get that privileged position of being a journalist in the mainstream media. 16:29 And yet they are afraid, this privileged class of journalists that surely you know inside, 16:39 that they want to report accurately, that they want to report fairly, that they want to be free to question things. 16:46 That's their job. 16:47 And yet they're afraid on this issue of speaking about vaccine injury. 16:55 And then we have our members of parliament. 16:58 And before this inquiry became a possibility, my wife, Teresa, and I were meeting at the request of MP Dean Ellison with other MPs. 17:10 because he had asked the question, if I do this, if I agree to hold an inquiry, will I be the only MP at the table? 17:21 I think there's 342 MPs. 17:25 Will I be the only one at the table? 17:26 And so we were meeting with ones that we thought would be philosophically inclined to support something like this. 17:36 And 17:37 What we came away from is that MPs do not feel that it's politically viable for them to sit at this table. 17:45 Now, because this is trending so much worldwide, that may change. 17:50 We may see some MPs show up as these proceedings go on that we didn't anticipate because of the immense public interest. 17:59 But who is more powerful in Canada than members of parliament? 18:03 The power they wield is just incredible. 18:06 I mean, they pass laws literally over life and death. 18:09 They make decisions that affect us every area of our life. 18:14 The power that they wield, the power that's concentrated in the House of Commons is amazing. 18:22 And yet this absolute powerful class is afraid. 18:29 They're afraid. 18:33 to listen to vaccine-injured persons, to speak about vaccine injury publicly, because it's a forbidden topic. 18:41 And so I think it's important for us to frame how powerful these groups are that are forbidden from speaking. 18:49 And it begs the question, how can it be in Canada in 2026 that there is a topic 18:58 that is so forbidden that the most powerful classes in Canada cannot tread there? 19:04 And I can ask rhetorically because there are examples in history where certain topics could not be discussed against the official narrative without consequences. 19:14 And again, it's a rhetorical question. 19:16 Can anyone show me an example where that ended well? 19:20 Regardless of the topic, because there have been topics in other countries throughout history that were forbidden. 19:28 to speak against without consequence. 19:31 And it never ends well. 19:33 And how is it going to end well here? 19:35 We're already a divided nation. 19:39 Michael McNair took the stand yesterday. 19:43 And if you haven't watched him, and we probably haven't posted it online yet, but it'll get there. 19:49 You have to watch it. 19:52 Because it's not even the words that Michael spoke. 19:57 It was his demeanor. 19:59 It was the clear emotion. 20:00 It was the clear struggle that he was experiencing as he was on the stand, as he was testifying under oath, sharing his story. 20:12 He showed us what moral distress is, what moral injury is. 20:19 Some of these witnesses may not use those terms. 20:23 But when they talk about the most difficult, the difficult part of their journey being not hurt, being gaslit by the medical community, being basically disenfranchised as citizens, even within their own families, they're really describing moral injury. 20:43 Because the reality is, is we're meant to be part of a tribe. 20:46 We're meant to be part of a family unit. 20:48 We're meant to be part of social circles. 20:50 We're meant to be part of professional circles. 20:53 But if you become vaccine-injured, even though you're not an anti-vaxxer, whatever that is, because you're taking vaccines, you've just happened to be injured. 21:03 But because we can't even have the discussion, you are excluded automatically, in many cases, from family members. 21:14 And there's probably not a witness that we're calling that has not had family alienation because of their journey. 21:20 You are alienated professionally. 21:24 You are alienated from your social circles. 21:29 You are often deplatformed on social media channels, as our first witness has been. 21:38 All because you were injured. 21:39 You become disenfranchised. 21:42 And so many of these people will be speaking about their physical injuries. 21:49 But I think that it's important for us to understand that there has been a moral injury 21:54 There has been a moral injustice. 21:57 And it's why this inquiring and listening to these voices are so important. 22:02 And so I, you know, I echo what Mr. Allison has said. 22:07 Thanks to the media, the alternative media for getting this out. 22:11 Because these telling the stories matters because we're listening to the stories. 22:17 And if the mainstream media still feels forbidden from doing so, 22:22 then we still need to get the word out. 22:24 And so actually call on every, anyone who's got any type of platform anywhere in the world, go to alisonacquiry.com and restream us. 22:34 Let's make this a worldwide phenomena because nowhere else in the world are vaccine injured persons being called to testify in a formal setting under oath. 22:45 And we need to get the word out. 22:47 And so, um, Speaker 1
22:52 Yeah, absolutely. 22:54 I also just want to add one more thing in the context of what Sean has just mentioned. 22:58 I've had a number of colleagues here yesterday and today. 23:00 I want to thank Mr. Dawson, who early on, when I talked to him, said he was in, and he was in for three days, and he's here. 23:07 He's here every day. 23:07 He's one guy I count on. 23:09 I want to thank MP Mohawk for also coming as well, who indicated that was the case. Speaker 3
23:13 to my colleagues uh i appreciate it very much there'll be more that come over the next couple days uh as i said mike was here we had a few others yesterday in the context of sean's marks so thanks so our our first witness today is michelle wharton and michelle welcome to the allison inquiry will you take the bible in your right hand please and yeah it's on okay michelle do you 23:42 swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god i do i'm wondering um you've heard the opening comments and you're part of an organization called canrise which is the largest organization in canada which is a community of vaccine injured persons um before we go into your story do you mind sharing 24:09 why it's important for vaccine-injured persons to be able to tell their stories? Speaker 8
24:17 Yes, of course. Speaker 9
24:28 When you're vaccine-injured in Canada, you're abandoned. 24:37 That's a reality. Speaker 19
24:41 And a significant amount of my experience has been exactly that for close to three years, almost exactly three years from the time I was injured until I found other injured Canadians like myself. 25:01 I walked this road alone. 25:06 And to your point, 25:10 abandonment, isolation, medical gaslighting, censorship, moral injury, dismissal by dental colleagues. 25:22 I was a highly esteemed dental professional, nationally recognized, friends, family, community members, doctors, you name it. 25:34 So for me to have been very grateful 25:40 to find Julie Woods, my co-founder, who will be testifying tomorrow, CanArise19 was founded. 25:50 And what I couldn't find being a regulated dental professional and a healthcare professional in the country was a scientific evidence-based organization that offered peer support groups. 26:03 And so initially that's where Julie and I started, was establishing ourselves as a registered nonprofit in Canada 26:10 offering formal support groups four times a year. 26:14 And then we moved on now to having, sadly, again, this is a reality in Canada, an underground medical provider list that we will not share and cannot share because Canadians cannot get access to medical doctors to help them improve their health. Speaker 3
26:33 Can I just slow you down there? 26:35 Because I think you're saying something that is tremendously important. 26:39 And you can leave your mic on, that's fine. 26:42 So CanRise is an organization of COVID-19 vaccine injured persons that have formed because they need support. 26:54 And the kind of collective experience is that we can't get medical attention by regular doctors, but there's that odd outlier out there that actually will 27:08 will treat us that will not dismiss us. 27:13 And you don't want to get them into trouble. 27:17 So it's a secret list because it's a valuable resource. 27:22 And I think that in itself is an entire story that vaccine injured persons have to protect those few doctors that are willing to treat them as human beings. Speaker 19
27:34 It's one of the only resources we have. 27:36 Okay. Speaker 3
27:36 Okay. 27:37 So let's go into your journey because it's quite compelling. 27:42 I'm just going to talk very briefly about who you are to save time. 27:46 So you're 42. 27:48 You're the mother of two, Joshua and Paige. 27:50 Your partner, Dave, is here to support you. 27:53 And thank you for being here, Dave. 27:56 You were a business owner. 27:57 You basically built up a dental hygienist practice. 28:00 I think you had like 2,000 clients. 28:03 Highly successful clients. 28:05 You were on the regulatory board, the National Regulatory Board for your profession. 28:10 Physically, you were extremely active, hiking. 28:13 You played soccer. 28:14 You coached children's soccer. 28:16 Zero health problems before this journey that you're going to speak to us about. 28:21 Can you share with us now your journey with the COVID-19 vaccines? Speaker 19
28:26 Yeah. 28:28 Now 47, so I was injured at 42. Speaker 3
28:32 Sorry about that. 28:33 You know, because people, especially females, hate it when we say they're younger than me. 28:38 So I apologize. Speaker 19
28:41 I don't mind at all because I've earned these five years. Speaker 9
28:47 I've fought for every moment these last five years. Speaker 19
29:04 Michael spoke yesterday. 29:06 He spoke of moral injury. 29:08 And I have not yet heard anyone explain it quite to the degree that absolutely echoes my experience. 29:21 I was not vaccinated until December of November was my first dose, my second December 2021. 29:28 And a underlining factor to me receiving those injections 29:34 was being a member of our regulatory board. 29:37 So I served on the College of Dental Hygienists. 29:40 And in British Columbia, Bonnie Henry not only mandated government employees, but she wasn't satisfied. 29:49 So she extended that and began to extend that to all regulated healthcare professionals in the province. 29:53 And that meant me. 29:56 And so when the email confidential mandatory vaccine requirements came along my inbox, my life changed. 30:05 I sat at the board table discussing risk versus benefit, informed consent, bodily autonomy. Speaker 3
30:12 And I'm going to fast forward to your injury, just because I think that's more important with the time. Speaker 19
30:17 Of course. 30:20 So that's ultimately what led me to receive these injections. 30:24 Within an hour of my first dose, high heart rate, erratic blood pressure, tightness of my chest, shortness of breath, generally just unwell. 30:35 subsided somewhat. 30:37 I perhaps wanted to relate that more to moral injury than physical injury. 30:42 I was wrong. 30:44 And my second injection, within 48 hours, severe neurological onset. 30:52 Blurred tunnel, double vision, hot spots in my legs, urinary incontinence, tinnitus, dizziness, imbalance, inability to regulate, hot and cold, 31:06 And my first appointment with a physician was roughly about three weeks. 31:12 That's when I could get in. 31:14 And when I explained the serious acute onslaught of neurological symptoms, he blamed it on menopause. Speaker 3
31:25 As I understand it, I mean, you're having vision problems, like serious vision problems, basically blurred and tunnel vision. 31:34 When you're talking about pot, 31:36 burning, like really severe pain burning, you actually lost some incontinence. 31:41 You were having incontinent issues, chest tightness, dizziness and vertigo that's actually affecting your ability to walk. 31:48 And you're told this is menopause. Speaker 19
31:50 That's correct. Speaker 3
31:51 How did that make you feel? Speaker 19
31:57 Having been someone that worked in the medical profession for over two decades, um, 32:05 The level of medical gaslighting I had never anticipated. 32:10 I received these injections because I was told they were safe and effective and coercion is not consent. 32:19 And then I'm injured and that's how I'm treated. 32:23 And we're here now in 2026. 32:26 I would spend my life in and out of the emergency room being treated for migraines and 32:34 laughed at, mocked at, condescending. 32:38 Often they'll talk to Dave, not to me, because I'm a female. 32:42 So this is something that people need to realize is that to have chronic illness and be a female does absolutely set you apart for the type of care you receive, because it's very easily displayed and, you know, anxiety, stress, of course, being a business owner, navigating the pandemic, 33:03 I must have been very stressed. Speaker 3
33:05 And can you share with us about the cystic masses and then what that led to? Speaker 19
33:09 Yeah. 33:11 So not only have I been diagnosed with multiple neurological and autoimmune conditions, I have roughly eight white matter brain lesions that continue to form. 33:23 I have cystic masses in my liver, pancreas, cervix, breasts, brain. 33:32 And as we fought for healthcare in Canada, ultimately in 2023, we had to resort to traveling to the United States. 33:42 I presented with a brain cyst seven months after my second vaccination, which was causing brain compression. Speaker 3
33:48 I just want to repeat what you said, because I think it's really important for people to understand this. 33:55 So you're having these cystic masses over your entire body, but that includes cancer. 34:00 on your brain, you have one inside your skull, and it's getting so large, it's actually compressing your brain, which I'm not a doctor, but that's a fatal condition once you start getting brain compression. 34:12 And they're not willing to operate on you in Canada. 34:16 So they see it, they know it's there, they know it's compressing your brain, but you can't get a surgery in Canada. 34:23 So what do you do? 34:24 Because you did get a surgery. 34:26 Can you share us what you, as a Canadian vaccine injured person, had to do 34:31 to still be alive and be able to tell us your story today? Speaker 19
34:36 Ultimately, because of my symptoms and financial burden, I sold my dental practice. Speaker 8
34:48 Our assets were sold. Speaker 9
34:53 All savings gone. 34:56 And crowdfunding. 35:00 To pay for my life. 35:06 And healthcare is free in Canada. Speaker 19
35:10 $148,000. 35:14 We paid for the surgery alone. Speaker 3
35:16 And that's U.S. dollars for brain surgery in the United States. Speaker 19
35:19 I was Canadian. Speaker 3
35:20 Oh, Canadian. 35:21 But you had to travel to the United States to pay for private brain surgery so that you could still be alive. Speaker 19
35:29 To date, we're over $300,000 spent on medical care. 35:36 And we're not done. 35:38 I returned back to the United States in 2024. 35:41 Again, no one would help me in Canada. 35:43 And within 36 hours, I was diagnosed with numerous immune and neurological conditions, given a treatment plan that's available in Canada, and it's heavily gate-kept. 35:56 We just got denied 35:59 The last treatment in July, which is blood filtration, plasmapheresis. Speaker 3
36:03 And I just want to explain to everyone what you mean by gatekeeping. 36:07 Correct me if I've got it wrong. 36:08 So the treatments are available. 36:11 You live in British Columbia, but the provincial government will approve them for certain conditions. 36:17 So the specialists and doctors can access those treatments for patients who have certain conditions. 36:23 But those conditions don't include vaccine entry. Speaker 19
36:28 I'm lucky, Sean, if I can get my foot in the door. 36:31 As soon as specialists see vaccine onset, irrelevant of the fact that I have neurological and autoimmune conditions, they won't see me. Speaker 3
36:44 Can you give us a little more detail about that? 36:46 Because it's an important point that seems to be coming up that most people don't understand that you actually could be treated one way in the hospital system until they find out 36:57 That it's vaccine entry and it's like a switch goes off. Speaker 3
37:00 So can you share maybe an example of that that comes to mind? Speaker 19
37:07 In order for me to have access to, we have had access to a couple of treatments. 37:13 Sadly, the specialist in the United States in August of 24 was very clear. 37:18 He sent a letter to my family doctor saying, if you do not help her, she will get worse. 37:22 I am substantially worse. 37:26 And so I did not see a neurologist in person in Canada until May of 2025 last year. 37:35 I've never seen an immunologist. Speaker 3
37:37 I just want to stop you there because it was on December 18th, 2021, where you started having neurological symptoms that are clearly neurological symptoms, vision, hot spots, tinnitus, incontinence, dizziness. 37:52 So 37:54 You mean to tell us that it's basically five years after the onset of very serious neurological symptoms that you were able to access a neurologist? Speaker 19
38:05 In person. 38:06 No one had laid hands on me. 38:10 And so in order for me to see an immunologist, the lengths that we've had to go through, and if I didn't have the medical background I did have, I would have given up. 38:19 We know Canadians that have given up. 38:22 They're accepting MAID. 38:24 They're being offered made. 38:26 And so in order to even get a referral accepted to an immunologist in British Columbia, we left out vaccine injury. Speaker 3
38:32 Right. 38:34 You basically have to hide the truth. Speaker 19
38:36 Absolutely. Speaker 3
38:36 To be able to try. 38:37 And so not only do doctors have to be kept secret, but you actually have to withhold part of your diagnosis. 38:46 So I want to show some photos that you have sent to us. 38:52 And maybe we'll pull those up. 38:54 David, if you can pull up those photos. Speaker 10
38:58 Can you share with us, this is a very happy photo. Speaker 8
39:10 And I hope the camera's off the photo. 39:22 I loved what I did. 39:29 To not get to decide when my career ended was heartbreaking. 39:49 That was my dental practice. Speaker 3
39:52 So this is a photo of you before vaccination at your dental practice that you 39:59 spent years and years building up. Speaker 19
40:01 That's correct. Speaker 3
40:02 So can we move to the next photo? 40:06 Can you share with us what this is a photo of? Speaker 9
40:16 What people don't realize is that these injuries don't just touch the injured. 40:25 My children were 8 and 10 when this started. 40:29 We were living an extraordinary life in the mountains. 40:36 And my children and my spouse have had to become my caregivers. 40:42 My children have had to grow up faster than any child should. 40:49 And they've had to witness far more than any child should ever witness. Speaker 10
40:58 Can we go to the next one? Speaker 9
40:59 What was it? 41:00 2019. Speaker 10
41:03 And this photo is around the same time? Speaker 9
41:06 No, that was the summer of 2021. Speaker 10
41:13 Next photo, please. Speaker 3
41:17 Can you share with us what these four photos represent? Speaker 19
41:23 We don't know why my skin 41:26 takes on that mottled appearance, but that's what happens with sun or heat exposure now. 41:34 And it takes roughly an hour for that to go away. 41:37 It's not normal. 41:43 It's just one of the many symptoms that I present with. Speaker 3
41:46 We have the next photo, please. 41:49 What is this photo of, Michelle? Speaker 19
41:56 with Dave's employment and someone has to work, I'm often was the, no one could leave me home alone. 42:05 And so my mom actually drove from Edmonton to pick me up and bring me home with her while Dave was gone. 42:13 And I just arrived in Edmonton. 42:15 And when I talk migraines at this point, I still have the brain cysts. 42:20 So just extraordinary head pain and pressure. 42:24 pressure behind my eyes just crippling. 42:26 And I was admitted into the ER. 42:30 And again, nothing but gaslighting. Speaker 3
42:34 And move to the next photo. 42:35 And this is a photo of your scalp after they knew that brain surgery. Speaker 19
42:40 That's right. 42:41 They had to remove a cyst from the very center of my brain. 42:46 And I have another brain cyst in a different area of my brain. Speaker 3
42:49 Thank you. 42:50 And so we'll be finished with the photos. 42:53 Is it 42:54 Am I correct? 42:54 My understanding is actually you don't know how long you're going to be alive. Speaker 19
42:58 We have no long-term treatment. Speaker 3
43:01 And you're not getting better, you're getting worse because you're not getting the treatments that you're supposed to be getting according to the specialists in the United States. Speaker 19
43:09 I needed it five years ago. Speaker 3
43:19 Can we actually, David, pull up the next slide? 43:22 No, let's 43:23 Let's pull that down. 43:24 Um, I'm actually going to finish my questions. Speaker 10
43:28 Please ask your question. Speaker 22
43:33 Through the whole process, have any doctors at all been supportive or been on your side with telling your story or being behind your story with your children? Speaker 19
43:53 I have had one doctor who's in, so we live in British Columbia. 43:58 I've had one doctor, he's a general practitioner in Alberta. 44:02 And my first experience in British Columbia when they blamed it on menopause, I knew I was in trouble. 44:09 And a close friend of mine recommended him. 44:11 And thankfully he took me on as a patient. 44:15 I never say his name out loud. 44:17 He's been ostracized from peer groups in the province. 44:21 simply because he had experience with roughly 14 patients that had adverse reactions. 44:29 His hope was that in time I would get better. 44:34 Two and a half years later, obviously we realized that I was not, and he was ultimately who signed my claim for the Vaccine Injury Support Program. 44:43 But because he's in a different province now, 44:46 there's a lot of hurdles interprovincially in accessing medical care. 44:50 So he tries to help me where he can, but there are a lot of barriers in Canada. Speaker 23
44:57 How has your not-for-profits, how has it helped yourself and other people so far since you've established it? Speaker 19
45:08 It's a lifeline to be able to have individuals like myself 45:16 like your next witness, be able to share and lean on each other, to not feel isolated, to not be abandoned, to be heard and to be seen is incredible. 45:28 We're in the process at this point right now where we've submitted our charitable status application, so we're hoping that we can get that approved. 45:38 We're stepping in where the government hasn't. 45:41 And so if anyone thinks that the Vaccine Injury Support Program or the new program is assisting Canadians, it is not. 45:48 The new program is no different than the Vaccine Injury Support Program. 45:52 And so our goal is to create a medical care fund so that we can pay for Canadians to get health care. Speaker 23
46:00 Have you applied to the new program? 46:04 Or do you know anyone that has? Speaker 19
46:06 Certainly. 46:08 So my claim was rejected. 46:10 submitted April 2023, rejected September 2024, and I have confirmation of vaccine entry. 46:21 We have been in the appeals process. 46:23 September 16th will be two years. 46:28 We are now waiting, and I had to submit paperwork via mail, not email, to plead my case on why my appeal should be considered. 46:39 with the Public Health Agency of Canada, even though it was already approved as an appeal with VISP. 46:47 Our organization has engaged countless times with members of Parliament, with the Public Health Agency of Canada, with VISP, offering program recommendations. 46:58 The program is a dismal failure. 47:01 It's a bureaucratic nightmare. 47:04 My mom had to be added to my file before I went for brain surgery. 47:09 I absolutely could not navigate this without her. 47:13 They make it so difficult. 47:17 And this is not my story alone. 47:20 Thousands of Canadians are experiencing the same. 47:24 Medical gaslighting, a federal program that's failed, financial hardship, moral injury, spouses that are caregivers. 47:34 When I say we're abandoned, we are absolutely abandoned in this country. 47:40 And we were told that no one would be left behind. 47:44 We have been left behind. 47:46 No one wants to talk about us. 47:50 The pandemic is over. 47:52 The pandemic is not over for us. Speaker 9
47:55 We cannot relive this again. Speaker 10
47:57 I want to thank you for telling your story today. Speaker 23
48:05 I don't have any more questions, but I do want to apologize for 48:09 what you've had to deal with through the parliament in general and the government. 48:17 So thank you for being here. Speaker 9
48:19 Thank you for being here. Speaker 25
48:24 Thank you for sharing your story, for coming up and for being courageous enough to not let it go or to give up on it. 48:34 You said that, can you, if you know that, 48:39 You say that no specialist takes the vaccine injury patients. 48:46 Do you, from your experience with them, what stops them from taking vaccine injury patients? Speaker 19
48:51 Their regulatory body. 48:55 Those that they hold their license with. Speaker 25
48:57 What stops them? Speaker 19
49:00 Concerned about being penalized. 49:02 If you listen to Dr. Charles Ha. Speaker 25
49:05 Penalized by the regulatory bodies? 49:06 Absolutely. Speaker 19
49:07 Absolutely. 49:08 When I first was vaccine injured, I served on my college board. 49:14 I resigned from my college board in a very short period of time because I would not have my name assigned to a college that would mandate their registrants and then be injured like me. 49:26 And I was afraid to talk about my injury as a regulated health care professional because I was afraid of being reported to my college for telling the truth. 49:36 Doctors cannot openly talk about vaccine injuries in Canada because their regulatory bodies will penalize them. Speaker 25
49:43 What bothers me as an MP is why would they penalize professionals for helping patients, be it vaccine injury or otherwise? Speaker 19
49:52 It's a very good question. Speaker 25
49:55 Do you have anything to say on it? 49:58 Nothing, no. Speaker 19
50:04 The ideology around vaccinations is one that you cannot contend with. 50:12 And there's a very large difference between being an anti-vaxxer, which is insulting because I'm vaccine injured, and ensuring that we have robust safety approval for vaccines in Canada. 50:28 That's what we need. 50:30 Safety surveillance, accurate reporting, 50:33 Because if we don't have any of the above, Canadians will not get assistance. 50:39 And this will happen again. Speaker 25
50:44 Can you also tell us, you said that there is another part of your brain. 50:50 So what happened with that? 50:51 Is it still there? Speaker 19
50:53 We're monitoring it. 50:56 And that was somewhere between... 51:03 In 2023, my pituitary gland was normal. 51:07 That's in your brain. 51:09 And my MRI from January of 2026 showed a cystic mass or a, it's called an adenoma in that area of my brain. 51:22 And my vision is getting significantly worse. 51:26 So I actually see tunnel vision. 51:27 So my peripheral sight is permanently damaged. 51:31 Additionally to that, 51:33 and again, this comes back to me being a medical provider, is that I understand how to read labs and I understand how to read imaging. 51:40 And it's me reviewing my imaging that I noted that somewhere in 2024, I had a stroke and no one told me. 51:51 They repeated the imaging in 2026 and confirmed that I had a mini stroke. 51:56 And I'm wondering why my cognition is declining, why my 52:01 executive function is declining, why my cognitive faculties are declining. 52:06 I was a healthy, thriving healthcare professional. 52:10 And this is our life now. 52:12 This is not just my life. 52:16 My life has been destroyed by a Health Canada approved medical product. Speaker 9
52:21 And no one is here to help us. Speaker 10
52:28 Once again, I'm sorry to hear that. Speaker 25
52:31 Thank you. 52:32 Thank you for being courageous enough. Speaker 1
52:36 Michelle, thanks. 52:39 I want to thank you again. 52:40 You made this trek before, and you were at our first press conference, and I don't think anyone appreciates how far you've come. 52:47 You've come on planes, trains, and automobiles. 52:50 You've come from a long distance in northern BC. 52:53 And I, Dave, also want to thank you for being here as well, and very nice meeting you. 53:00 I have a couple of questions, but 53:01 You know, when we chatted and just, you know, you're here today and the challenge with, I think, a lot of vaccine is people look fine, but internally they're gutted, they're destroyed. 53:14 Talk about, you know, the recovery. 53:16 I mean, you traveled a great distance to get here. 53:20 I don't know how many hours it took, but I know our colleague Bob Zimmer, it takes him five, six, eight, 10 hours, 12, depending on stuff. 53:28 How long did it take you? 53:29 Like, this is going to really, 53:31 kick the crap out of you for the next couple of days. 53:33 You're going to be the time to recover for what would be normal for most people. 53:39 I think you should explain, you know, this comes at a cost for you to be here. Speaker 19
53:44 It definitely does. 53:47 Without care, my conditions are getting progressively worse. 53:50 And so that includes burning, tingling, electric shocks, jolts everywhere. 53:57 As I'm sitting here, it's everywhere. 53:59 My brain, it's on fire. 54:02 and any kind of level of activity or exertion, even staying upright, this is challenging. 54:08 I spend 90% of my time in bed. 54:11 My ligaments can't keep me upright. 54:14 And even yesterday, knowing that, you know, individuals would be testifying, I wanted to be here and I had to leave early. 54:21 And I spent the rest of the day in bed taking rescue medications for, you know, brain inflammation, pain, nausea, 54:31 And that's what every day looks like. 54:32 And so I can't tell you for certain how long it will take to recover, but today will be the same. 54:37 Tomorrow will be the same. 54:39 And that's just what life looks like now. 54:42 And we have to do what we have to do. 54:44 This is important. 54:46 I would not not be here. 54:48 So I'll make do. 54:50 Yeah. Speaker 1
54:50 Oh, and we appreciate you making the effort, not once, but twice. 54:54 I think we should show a few of the slide, you know, just talking with some of the stats that you guys have from Can19. 55:01 Someone was asking about, can you just go through that slide for us in terms of the data that you're receiving from your organizations, from the individuals? 55:10 How many people are a part of that organization? Speaker 19
55:12 So we have 2,000 members that access our resources. 55:15 We have roughly 300 registered members. Speaker 3
55:18 And this is some of the stats from that? Speaker 19
55:19 Yes, our data points are from our members who we send surveys to. 55:23 And so this was submitted in part for us to be able to provide not only VISP, but the Public Health Agency of Canada with data points to reflect the inefficiencies of VISP. 55:37 And so for our members in particular, as you can see above, over 46% of our members had no idea that the pro, I'm sorry, couldn't apply because they couldn't get doctors to sign their application forms. 55:50 Can you imagine that? 55:53 So when we're looking at stats from the federal government, 58,000 injured, 11,000 serious, roughly 4,000 tried to apply. 56:00 So think about that for a second. 56:04 That could be 8,000 people that didn't apply or couldn't apply, right? 56:09 24 were ineligible because they couldn't get medical support in time, in a three-year timeframe. 56:14 Roughly 30% not even aware that the program existed. 56:18 And of the applicants, one of which is myself, 56:21 Again, you can see roughly 7% approved, 7%, 93% rejection rate in a program that was supposed to help serve Canadians that were injured. 56:34 Make that make sense. 56:37 43% rejected, 50% remain in the process. 56:40 Five years we've been waiting. 56:44 We don't have five years. 56:47 Like we can't wait another five years for a program that is not working. 56:51 And when I listened to you engage in the House of Commons, and Maggie Chee, is that correct, responded that we've developed a program, we've transferred it to the Public Health Agency of Canada. 57:04 It's not working. 57:05 It's no different. 57:06 It's an illusion of a federal program just to save face. 57:12 We know. 57:13 Injured behind me know. 57:15 It's not working. 57:17 And you know what the cost is? 57:18 My life. Speaker 1
57:21 I just have one more comment before I turn it off. 57:24 This is why these testimonies are so important. 57:26 I know you're reliving, and that's brutal. 57:29 But the reality is we see numbers like 60,000. 57:32 We know that's a lie. Speaker 19
57:33 It is a lie. Speaker 1
57:34 Right? 57:34 Because people don't actually get a report. 57:36 Dr. 57:37 Pop talked about that. 57:38 He said, like, I can't even get things. 57:41 And he's one of the good guys. 57:42 Like, he's one of the guys who wants to help. Speaker 19
57:44 Do you know that my AEFI has never been reported by a doctor? Speaker 19
57:49 Ask doctors to report it. 57:50 They've never reported it. Speaker 1
57:53 Yeah. 57:53 So the stats are tremendously under, and the program is woefully underfunded. 57:58 And even if you were able to get access, chances are you're going to get stuck in this revolving loop that never ends. Speaker 19
58:04 Well, something to highlight for myself is that two of the three medical panel experts agreed that there was a temporal relationship between my injection timeline and onset of symptoms. 58:18 They didn't feel like my conditions are from the vaccine. 58:20 They blamed it on age. 58:22 They tried to blame it on my brain surgery, even though the symptoms started within 48 hours. 58:27 Like you name it, they've tried to blame it on anything but the vaccine. 58:30 But the problem is, and Senator Ron Johnson spoke to that specifically yesterday, if these conditions are not reported in the clinical trial, there's no causation. 58:42 So we're doomed. 58:43 Pfizer didn't disclose the safety signals. 58:46 Post-marketing, it's not disclosed. 58:48 So we have globally individuals showing up with these symptoms and these conditions. 58:54 And again, our data is showing... And Michelle, I'm sorry. 58:58 Conditions are common, more common than you'd think. Speaker 3
59:00 It's just we don't want to have to say to a witness at the end of the day, they don't have time. 59:07 I know it's going to be physically punishing on you to be here, but we're really, really thankful. 59:14 that you came and shared with us. 59:15 This is super important. 59:16 Thank you. Speaker 19
59:17 Thank you for having me. Speaker 3
59:21 Our next witness is Vienna Demedak. 59:23 Vienna, would you take the Bible in your right hand, please? 59:31 Vienna Demedak, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 59:40 I'm just going to go through, you know, 59:43 some of your personal details really quickly. 59:47 You are currently 63. Speaker 17
59:48 Yes, I am. 59:49 You can tell my age. Speaker 3
59:51 You have two daughters and two grandsons. 59:55 You were before your vaccination, you were a massage therapist. Speaker 3
1:00:01 And you work literally seven days a week. Speaker 17
1:00:03 I work constantly. 1:00:04 And I did a lot of palliative care at the end before I got injured. 1:00:09 Which, you know, sounds strange, but I loved it. 1:00:11 I loved working with people that were that ill. 1:00:15 Yes. Speaker 3
1:00:16 And you were hugely athletic. 1:00:17 Yes. 1:00:18 When you and I spoke, basically you'd go 20 kilometers every other day. 1:00:22 You swam, you cycled everywhere, you hiked, you kayaked. 1:00:25 Like, you're one of those persons. Speaker 17
1:00:27 A little nuts, yeah. Speaker 3
1:00:28 Yeah, okay. Speaker 17
1:00:29 A little bit over the top. Speaker 3
1:00:30 Very fit, absolutely no health issues at all? 1:00:35 No. 1:00:36 No. 1:00:37 Okay. 1:00:38 That changed back on July 2nd, 2021. 1:00:41 Can you share with us what happened? Speaker 17
1:00:45 So I had my one and only Moderna shot. 1:00:49 It was later in the day on that day, I believe. 1:00:53 The next day I felt okay. 1:00:56 I mean, I didn't really think about it. 1:00:58 I was really anxious about having it because I really did not want to have this thing. 1:01:04 And then 1:01:05 The morning of the 4th, July 4th, I woke up to go for one of my 20K runs. 1:01:11 I was actually meeting some people. Speaker 3
1:01:13 So this is, I think, an important point. 1:01:15 You're actually getting dressed. 1:01:18 You got your running gear on for a 20-kilometer run. 1:01:22 So when you said earlier, like every other day, you're just about to run for 20 kilometers. Speaker 17
1:01:28 Yeah, running to me was like breathing. 1:01:31 It kept me alive, like just breathing. 1:01:34 Dissolved any trauma or anything in my life. 1:01:36 I just run. 1:01:37 Right. 1:01:37 But that morning, I remember I went to reach for a glass of water like this and I felt this pop in the back of my head. 1:01:46 And I remember thinking, oh, God, what fresh hell is this? 1:01:49 But I knew right away I was having a stroke. 1:01:53 And then I lost my sight. 1:01:54 Like, you have to imagine this. 1:01:56 I couldn't see. 1:01:57 So I'm in a condo by myself. 1:01:59 And I lost my ability to walk instantly. 1:02:03 Like, instantly. 1:02:04 And I had to find my way out of the condo. 1:02:07 I managed to get my phone in my hand. 1:02:10 And you know how there's an emergency button on the phone? 1:02:12 I just kept hitting it. 1:02:14 And I was just... My thought was to try to get to the lobby because we had concierge in the building. 1:02:22 But... 1:02:24 it was ridiculous. 1:02:24 Like I couldn't walk. 1:02:26 So I got into the hallway and I, I couldn't crawl either. 1:02:30 Like I could not move. 1:02:32 And I started dragging myself and I don't remember a lot of this. 1:02:36 Like, that's the thing. 1:02:38 I don't remember talking to people. 1:02:41 I don't remember so much of it. 1:02:42 I fell into the neighbor's door and you know, this young man, I think I traumatized him, but I just told him I'm having a stroke. 1:02:51 I just had a COVID shot. 1:02:53 um, cognitively I was very aware, but I was slurring my words. 1:02:57 So I said, I'm not high. 1:02:59 You know, I was really, really thin. 1:03:00 I was super ripped. 1:03:01 So I said, I'm not strung out on drugs. 1:03:04 Um, I don't have COVID. 1:03:06 And then his mom, thank God was there. 1:03:09 And she called 911 right away. 1:03:11 And then I, um, started projectile vomiting and it was the type of stroke I had. 1:03:16 That's why I was throwing up. 1:03:17 I had a severe cerebellar stroke and, um, 1:03:23 I don't remember almost anything after that. 1:03:26 I remember... Can I just slow you down? Speaker 3
1:03:28 Sure. 1:03:29 What was the emotional experience like? 1:03:31 You're describing us the physical, but what... Do you know what? Speaker 17
1:03:35 I didn't even put a thought to that. 1:03:37 Like now when I... Like speaking about it today is... 1:03:40 There's a lot of trauma, obviously. 1:03:44 I remember... 1:03:45 I do remember the woman like stroking my hair and she's going, oh, please don't die, sweetheart. 1:03:49 Please don't die. 1:03:50 Because I guess she thought I was going to die. 1:03:52 And... 1:03:55 I do remember the paramedics coming and they, because I was so fit, they're like, okay, let's see you walk. 1:04:00 And there was very clear that wasn't going to happen. 1:04:04 And then when I, I think I was just in and out of it all day. 1:04:09 Like I got to, I was in the ER. 1:04:14 I remember five doctors, head of DGH, like Vancouver General Hospital Stroke Clinic. 1:04:23 She came in and spoke to me. 1:04:26 there was just a whole bunch of them telling me I'd had a really severe stroke. 1:04:30 And, um, I thought, okay, you know, I just, I, I can't describe stroke to anybody because it is beyond what you can imagine. 1:04:42 It's, there's just no way to put into words when you've had a stroke like that capacity. 1:04:48 Right. 1:04:49 Um, 1:04:50 I think I told you on the phone when I woke up, I was, it was dark out and my daughter, my oldest daughter was there. 1:04:56 I was in the ICU. 1:05:00 I remember trying to act all normal, like, you know, no big deal. 1:05:04 Mom's in the ICU. 1:05:05 I was trying to make it better for, you know, cause I can imagine how traumatizing that was for her. 1:05:11 And I don't think she realized I couldn't see. 1:05:14 So I couldn't see her, but I could hear her. 1:05:17 And yeah, 1:05:18 I thought it was just an hour later, but it must have been, like you pointed out, it must have been late at night. 1:05:23 So I must have been out for hours. 1:05:25 But when I woke up, I mean, I was naked. 1:05:27 There was just tubes attached to me, monitors everywhere. 1:05:31 And I thought, well, you know, this is... 1:05:34 It's hard. 1:05:34 Like, you kind of are in massive denial. 1:05:36 Because I thought, yeah, just give me, you know, a couple of weeks, I'll probably be, you know... 1:05:41 I just couldn't comprehend. 1:05:43 And that was the beginning of the nightmare, right? 1:05:46 And... 1:05:49 Then I went, I was in the ICU because I had a brain hemorrhage three days later, which is called a hemorrhagic transformation. 1:05:56 So it's when you bleed around the original stroke site. 1:06:00 And that set me back quite a bit. 1:06:02 I think, you know, then everyone kind of started whispering and this neurosurgeon was like, oh, no big deal. 1:06:08 I can go in there and stop the bleed. 1:06:09 Like he was very matter of fact about it, but. 1:06:13 Then eventually I got moved to, I think, like a step down kind of acute care neurology floor. 1:06:19 And then eventually I went to Jeff Strong Rehab Hospital in Vancouver. 1:06:24 And if you end up at Jeff Strong, you have had a catastrophic injury. 1:06:28 It's like, yeah, it's like the most depressing place because everybody is so severely injured. 1:06:36 And I started learning how to walk. 1:06:38 walk again. 1:06:39 I couldn't look after myself. 1:06:40 I was catheterized. 1:06:42 I couldn't use the washroom on my own. 1:06:44 Um, when I got to GF, that was finished with, but it was still, um, I was in a wheelchair. 1:06:49 I know it's hard. 1:06:50 You look at me like, I think Dean mentioned that, that we all appear a lot of us just to be totally fine. 1:06:56 But, um, it was, uh, 1:07:01 The whole thing is just catastrophic. 1:07:03 It's like, and then I had less than a month later, I had three more blood clots and ended up back in the ER and another brain hemorrhage. 1:07:12 The original doctor that saw me, I remember her whispering like, oh, what is she doing back in here? 1:07:17 And I remember yelling at her going, well, because you kind of didn't address the real reason I'm in here. 1:07:23 It was a giant white elephant everywhere I went. 1:07:26 Like at GF Strong, nobody was talking about it. 1:07:30 Not one doctor addressed it. 1:07:33 The head stroke doc at BGH did tell me in private that she would lose her license if she spoke about it. 1:07:39 I said, but you're willing to let me die, right? Speaker 3
1:07:41 I just want to be clear so that the head stroke doctor. Speaker 3
1:07:46 At which hospital? Speaker 3
1:07:48 At Victoria General Hospital. Speaker 17
1:07:49 It was Vancouver. Speaker 3
1:07:50 Vancouver. 1:07:50 Okay. Speaker 17
1:07:50 Yeah. 1:07:51 I had more strokes in Victoria General too. Speaker 3
1:07:53 Right. 1:07:54 Right. 1:07:54 That's my confusion. Speaker 17
1:07:55 I'm laughing, but it's so ridiculous when you think about it. Speaker 3
1:07:59 Is telling you verbally. 1:08:00 So like face to face. 1:08:02 Yeah. 1:08:02 Yeah. 1:08:02 This is vaccine injury. Speaker 17
1:08:04 Yeah. 1:08:04 But she said she couldn't talk about it and everyone would whisper. 1:08:07 It was actually the CT guys the first few days. 1:08:11 when I was in the ICU and they were taking me down, like in one of those giant nets, cause I couldn't walk, right. 1:08:16 It's like a giant hammock cause they can't lift you. 1:08:19 Um, they were whispering all the time that you're like the seventh person this week. 1:08:24 That's super physically fit. 1:08:26 They were seeing it. 1:08:27 They were seeing young people like me. 1:08:29 Well, youngish at the time, uh, maybe not so much anymore. 1:08:32 Um, but that were injured and young, like super athletic people, especially. 1:08:40 And, um, 1:08:41 I said, why are we all whispering? 1:08:42 Like, I had no idea. 1:08:43 I was so naive about what was going on, like so naive. 1:08:48 And, um, I mean, why would I think otherwise? 1:08:52 Like, you know, I just thought some of these people must have your back, right? 1:08:55 But no, it was, it was crazy. 1:08:57 And ultrasound scanners and MRI people, they were the ones that were telling me what they were seeing, you know, and, um, 1:09:04 It's hard to fathom. 1:09:06 Like, for anybody listening to this outside of the people that are injured, I understand. 1:09:10 It is really hard to fathom the level of... 1:09:14 I don't even know what to call it. 1:09:16 It's like this evil. 1:09:17 It's like levels of corruption. 1:09:19 And the medical doctors that were willing to speak to me about... 1:09:22 It was always when there was no one else in the room. 1:09:25 And... 1:09:26 the stuff they put in my medical files are so redacted. 1:09:30 Like it's not even truthful. 1:09:32 Like they just, they redacted my entire medical file from VGH hospital, um, 1:09:39 yeah, the level of corruption you kind of uncover, like, it's just sort of, it's so beyond, like, I live in a completely different reality. 1:09:47 Like, I'm in some other reality with all these other injured people. 1:09:51 And it's like, you better be strong to deal with this mentally, because it is like so hard to comprehend. 1:09:58 There's literally no one has your back. 1:10:00 And 1:10:02 Like Michelle was saying, the medical gaslighting is so beyond belief. 1:10:06 You feel like you're in the twilight zone constantly, and you literally can't get any help. 1:10:11 So I went a couple of years where I only saw one doctor at GF who I had... 1:10:21 I respect hugely because he just stood by my side. 1:10:26 I think he was scared because I literally had no one following me medically at all. 1:10:30 No one doing follow-up MRIs. 1:10:32 They did the bare minimum you do with stroke, but that was it. 1:10:36 And then, like I said, I moved to Victoria last year trying to go back to my job. 1:10:42 They told me I would never work again. 1:10:43 I have CPP disability and I have a permanent disability tax credit, but 1:10:49 I was so determined. 1:10:51 I thought, I'm just going to try. 1:10:52 I wanted so much to just have some type of normalcy in my life again. 1:10:57 Like something that I used to do. 1:10:59 And this lovely woman in Victoria that owns three clinics, she was supposed to hire me before this all happened. 1:11:05 She said, let's just give it a go, you know. 1:11:07 So I was going to work one day a week on two people. 1:11:11 And then I had three more strokes. 1:11:14 And it was shocking to me because I thought, okay, maybe I'm past this, right? 1:11:19 But I hadn't had an MRI in three or four years, like zero medical follow-up. 1:11:23 And they had found there was all these blood clots in my head, ones I didn't even know I had. 1:11:28 So I'd been having strokes, and they were smaller strokes. 1:11:33 But people have to understand I had so much deficit from the first major strokes I had. 1:11:39 It's very hard unless it's super obvious. 1:11:42 Like then I couldn't tell was I worse or, you know. Speaker 3
1:11:45 Can we talk about that? 1:11:46 Because today, I mean, you've gone from, 1:11:49 running 20 kilometers every other day. 1:11:52 Now you walk with a cane. Speaker 17
1:11:54 Yes. 1:11:55 And I got to the point where I almost could ditch my cane when I moved to Victoria and I worked at the, I, oh my God, it was just a full-time job. 1:12:03 I was doing a program up at UBC with kinesiology students and I 1:12:09 You know, you have to understand too that a lot of the, a cerebellar stroke is actually quite rare. 1:12:14 Apparently it's like 1% of the population. 1:12:17 And I had three of them in that same area. 1:12:22 So even the physios at GF Strong didn't really know how to rehab someone like me. 1:12:27 I wasn't your typical stroke patient. Speaker 3
1:12:29 And I just want to focus you because I just want you to be talking about your limitations today. Speaker 17
1:12:33 So my limitations today. 1:12:34 So like I said, when I had more strokes living in Victoria, there was zero medical help on the island. 1:12:41 So it took me five months to see their stroke doctor. 1:12:44 But... 1:12:45 because I had had this happen over and over again, I kind of knew I had to just get right back into dragging myself out, walking, doing what I could do. 1:12:53 You have to keep moving. 1:12:54 You have to be physically active when you've had a stroke. 1:12:57 That's where being an athlete like that saved my butt because I was able to have enough strength to get out of a wheelchair. 1:13:06 But yeah, so now after those strokes, that has slowed me down a lot. 1:13:10 So now I have to use a cane 1:13:12 The fatigue from the strokes is beyond belief. 1:13:16 It's not like anything you can imagine. 1:13:18 Like, it's... 1:13:22 I don't know how to describe that. 1:13:23 Like, that's the invisible part you don't see. 1:13:26 Because, you know, I'm animated. 1:13:28 I'm like, you know, I have a huge sense of humor when I'm talking. 1:13:33 I probably, especially to my family, I make myself look like I'm pretty good. 1:13:38 Don't worry about me. 1:13:39 It's okay. 1:13:40 I'm okay. 1:13:40 But... 1:13:42 The reality is that I'm exhausted. 1:13:45 I'm exhausted by the mental stress of this. 1:13:49 I'm exhausted by the physical. 1:13:53 Learning to walk again and care for yourself. 1:13:57 Some of the doctors I've met, they just don't know why I'm here. 1:14:01 They just don't know how I'm not dead. 1:14:02 Because I have had almost, I think, 12 strokes now. 1:14:06 I'm going back to Vancouver next week to have another MRI because I haven't had one in a year. 1:14:11 I had a stroke in January and they didn't, nothing. 1:14:13 They do nothing. 1:14:14 They've told me now they don't even know, they won't do anything anymore. 1:14:17 They're not going to do anything else, right? 1:14:20 I can't take blood thinners because if I take blood thinners, my brain bleeds. 1:14:24 And that's because of the nature of the clots I'm having. 1:14:27 They're unique to this shot. 1:14:29 You know, I had one doctor in Victoria and I won't say his name, who's helping people. 1:14:33 He's a young internal medicine doc and my heart goes out to him. 1:14:37 When I met him, I was more concerned about him, um, 1:14:41 Because, yeah, he's, you know, he's just been put through the wringer. Speaker 3
1:14:45 And I just, I want to focus you again on a couple of things. 1:14:49 So, because I just want people to appreciate it's not just walking. Speaker 3
1:14:52 I mean, like washing your hair is difficult. Speaker 17
1:14:54 I can't. 1:14:55 This hand, I have severe ataxia in it. 1:14:57 Like I can't, I have no smooth movement in this hand. 1:15:00 This one's normal. 1:15:01 But that seems like not a big deal. 1:15:04 But it doesn't coordinate with the rest of my body. 1:15:06 And my leg does the same thing. 1:15:08 So when I'm walking or I smash dishes a lot because things are just whacking around all the time, but I make it look easy because I'm so focused. 1:15:18 Like everything I do is probably 100,000 times more difficult than anybody else. 1:15:23 I've learned not to pick things up with my left hand because I can't learn that. 1:15:28 And this hand's totally numb. 1:15:30 This whole right side of me is numb and tingly, and it's probably from the brain bleeds because they extended outside the cerebellar area. 1:15:37 So it affected not just my left, but my right as well. 1:15:41 And I can't feel my feet very well when I'm walking. 1:15:45 And I can only wear bloodstone boots, which sounds hysterical, but I learned to walk in those. 1:15:50 So my brain doesn't recognize like a different pair of shoes. 1:15:54 I can ride a bike. 1:15:55 And so everyone thinks, oh, wow, she's good. 1:15:58 I can ride a bike, which is kind of fascinating because of the strokes I had. 1:16:03 My center of gravity is different on a bike. 1:16:05 It's terrifying. 1:16:06 I mean, I've crashed so many times, but I'm determined to do it because I find with the strokes I've had, 1:16:15 It might just be sheer stupidity on my part, but I pushed myself through it. 1:16:19 So it's the only way to get better from stroke. 1:16:23 Like you can't be fearful of the rehab portion of it, but it is, it's brutal. 1:16:30 It's like, it's like some weird dream. 1:16:33 I don't have pictures of that because I didn't want to be videotaped. 1:16:37 Like when I was at GF Strong, it was just, it was, that was tough to look at. Speaker 3
1:16:43 You know, I'm just going to cut you short again and ask you one last question. 1:16:47 And of course, in peace, I'll have questions for you. 1:16:50 Why is it important for you to be here today and share your story? Speaker 17
1:16:55 You know what? 1:16:56 It's important for, I've shared my story many times and I'm not, I'm very open about it because, you know, I'm walking, I look pretty gimpy. 1:17:04 People ask me, they always think I've had my hip replaced. 1:17:07 I'll tell them what's happened. 1:17:08 And most of the time it's like deer caught in headlights, right? 1:17:11 It's like, well, they don't want to talk about this, right? 1:17:14 But 1:17:15 there were people that I've met on this journey that literally don't have a voice. 1:17:19 Like one of my good friends, I won't say his name at GF. 1:17:22 He has aphasia from strokes. 1:17:24 He can't speak at all. 1:17:25 And clearly I can speak. 1:17:27 So, um, I, uh, I want to speak for on behalf of him and all injured people. 1:17:34 There's people here who have been with me the last day or so that, um, uh, because of lack of, you know, time, they're not speaking, um, 1:17:44 but I want to speak for those injuries because you know what? 1:17:47 I have injuries that are obvious. 1:17:49 Like you can look at an MRI, you can see all the clots. 1:17:52 These people that don't even have that type of, you know, black and white kind of situation there. 1:18:00 I just feel my heart goes out to them. 1:18:02 I can't even get any kind of help, right? 1:18:05 Like what has happened to me is a death sentence. 1:18:08 That is the reality. 1:18:09 Like I literally have a death book at home. 1:18:12 I've got like where I'm going, what I'm doing, my passwords to stuff because I can die. 1:18:17 Like I could have a stroke right now. 1:18:19 And you guys are going to have to deal with that. 1:18:21 But it's happened so many times to me that I never know when it's going to happen, how it's going to happen. 1:18:29 I can just be. 1:18:31 Just sitting there having a cup of tea, I had a stroke, right? 1:18:33 So that's the reality I live under every single day. 1:18:38 And do I think anything's going to come out of this? 1:18:40 I don't know. 1:18:40 I appreciate, Dean, that you're doing this. 1:18:43 It's huge. 1:18:44 And for you, showing up to this is important. 1:18:47 And you, of course, Sean, it was wonderful to meet you. 1:18:52 But I don't know that it's going to go anywhere. 1:18:54 And everything Michelle said about that vaccine injury support program, I mean, that thing is a colossal joke. 1:18:59 I mean... 1:19:00 they've asked me now to redo my appeal, you know, because they don't have, they've lost it. 1:19:05 I, yeah, no, I'm not gonna, I am not going to do this again. 1:19:11 No, I, you know, the amount of, 1:19:14 the work you have to put into it. 1:19:16 I live alone. 1:19:17 I'm by myself. 1:19:18 Like I had to do all of this by myself, all of it, the rehab process of it, all of it. 1:19:24 And I'm okay with that. 1:19:26 I'm tough, but I'm not going to do the appeal again. 1:19:28 I'm not even going to bother, but I want you to know how bad that program is. 1:19:32 Like it's beyond bad. 1:19:34 Like I can't even describe this. 1:19:36 Anyway, I'm here also, like I said, to make a difference. 1:19:41 I don't know. Speaker 3
1:19:42 Just because I want the MPs to have an opportunity to ask some questions. Speaker 17
1:19:45 Okay. 1:19:45 Thank you. Speaker 3
1:19:46 Thank you. Speaker 23
1:19:50 Thank you for being here to testify and tell your story. 1:19:53 You said you had one vaccine? Speaker 17
1:19:55 One. 1:19:55 I had Moderna, yes. Speaker 23
1:19:57 Were you worried about getting the vaccine before you got it? Speaker 17
1:20:01 Yeah, I didn't want to take it. Speaker 23
1:20:02 You didn't want to take it? Speaker 17
1:20:03 No, absolutely not. Speaker 23
1:20:04 What changed your mind? 1:20:06 What made you take it? Speaker 17
1:20:06 There was a lot of things going on in my private life. 1:20:09 that I won't speak about, that I wanted to be financially stable as I was moving through that. 1:20:16 And I was good at what I did, and I could have done it for many years, especially with how physically fit I was. 1:20:22 And then that was taken from me, but it was mainly to keep my job, yeah. 1:20:27 And I also worked full-time in Winnipeg at a clinic, and I couldn't get on a plane to do my job right. 1:20:32 It was almost all that, because I just thought, this is insane. 1:20:37 Like an emergency use authorization for a shot that, you know, it's one thing to do that, but to mandate it was a huge issue for me. 1:20:50 And where I made the biggest mistake was trusting the media even slightly because I thought I would have seen more injury. 1:20:58 Like I was so naive back then, but I'm not anymore. 1:21:01 You know, I had to go down that, take that lid off Pandora's box. Speaker 23
1:21:06 I think a lot of people feel the same way with not wanting the vaccine, but in order to have a daily life where you go to work, keep your job. Speaker 17
1:21:17 It was mainly for work and to see my children in Winnipeg and my grandson at the time. Speaker 23
1:21:22 I feel your pain. 1:21:23 I was in construction. 1:21:24 I couldn't. 1:21:25 I live in Brunswick. Speaker 23
1:21:27 I had projects in Nova Scotia and PEI. Speaker 23
1:21:30 And we weren't allowed to cross the border into Nova Scotia. Speaker 23
1:21:33 When you had jobs to have to get finished. 1:21:36 We had to, I had to get the vaccines in order to keep working. 1:21:40 So I feel your concerns and why you had to get it. Speaker 17
1:21:44 Well, it was the one time in my life I didn't analyze things to death either. 1:21:48 I just thought, okay, I'm just going to go with it. 1:21:50 I'm just going to do this. 1:21:52 I'll be the guinea pig. 1:21:53 Let's see what happens. 1:21:54 And it did not end well. 1:21:56 I mean, you know, it's, you know, like I said, it's like, thank God I have a huge sense of humor because I just think back on it and I just think, 1:22:06 it's, it's, you can't even write, make this stuff up. 1:22:09 Like, you know, and luckily Sean reigns me in. 1:22:14 Cause yeah, there's just so much more to that story, but yeah. Speaker 23
1:22:19 It is unfortunate because we leave it up to the medical professionals to tell us it's safe. 1:22:26 And then when we hear the stories over and over and over again, that it wasn't safe for everyone. Speaker 17
1:22:32 I didn't believe it was safe actually, but that's where, you know, 1:22:36 if I could go back in time, but I can't because, um, you know, this is, this is my path right now. 1:22:42 Here I am, you know, like, it's very surreal. 1:22:45 It didn't seem like this is something that I'm going to do, but, um, like, I appreciate you're here and, um, the ones that have showed up and I just think, well, what can you do going forward? 1:22:58 Like, what do you see yourself doing going forward? Speaker 23
1:23:01 Well, I've had meetings before, before we, Dean asked me about the inquiry. Speaker 23
1:23:06 And I've met with some doctors that don't want their name to be told. Speaker 23
1:23:13 I've met with funeral directors that tell us about what they deal with with blood clots in their profession. 1:23:22 And I've met with people like yourself that have been through the process with injuries and they seem to hit roadblocks and can't get anyone. 1:23:31 Right. 1:23:32 I think for us as MPs, we've got to take these stories and go back and talk to the other MPs and bring it forward for everyone. 1:23:38 And it's great that there's so many independent media out this week to tell your stories and get it out to the public to let them know. 1:23:49 I've got a couple more questions. Speaker 23
1:23:51 How has it affected your family through the process? Speaker 20
1:23:59 Do you know what? Speaker 23
1:24:01 At that time... Because at the end of the day, family, everybody relies on family when they get in tough situations. Speaker 17
1:24:08 You know, it's funny, like, I know they're hugely supportive. 1:24:16 I don't want to speak for them, but I sometimes wonder, like, everybody took those shots. 1:24:20 My family took those because when I was in the ICU... 1:24:23 the doctors were constantly telling them that, you know, you've got to protect your mom. 1:24:27 She's, you know, like, so yeah, everybody had these shots and I worry every day about them. 1:24:36 It's, it's funny. 1:24:36 Like my family's almost really silent about it. 1:24:39 My sister was the only one who didn't take the shot in our family. 1:24:43 And, you know, like she said, she felt she had more of a choice. 1:24:47 She was retired. 1:24:48 She lived in a small town. 1:24:50 She didn't, 1:24:51 You have to travel to make that choice. Speaker 3
1:24:54 I'm sorry, I have to cut you off. 1:24:55 Yes. 1:24:56 Bring another witness in. Speaker 17
1:24:57 For sure. Speaker 3
1:24:58 I don't want to be that person to tell someone at the end of the day. Speaker 17
1:25:00 You can tell me to shut up. Speaker 3
1:25:02 Oh, no. 1:25:03 You know what? Speaker 17
1:25:05 Thank you for your questions. Speaker 3
1:25:07 This is being streamed around the world. Speaker 3
1:25:09 And I think the entire world appreciates your sense of humor and your courage. 1:25:14 You sit here with a smile and a very courageous smile. 1:25:18 and yet you've shared with us a journey that shows a real depth of character, and we're honored. Speaker 17
1:25:24 Thank you. 1:25:24 I appreciate it. 1:25:25 I appreciate being chosen to come and speak. 1:25:27 Thank you. Speaker 3
1:25:31 So our next witness is Cameron Hitchcock. 1:25:34 And Cameron, will you take the Bible in your right hand? 1:25:40 Cameron Hitchcock, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God? 1:25:48 I do. 1:25:51 I just wanted, and you've already told me this, so I'm just stating it as a fact, but you did not have COVID before what you're going to describe happened. 1:26:00 Correct. 1:26:02 And just to introduce you before we, you know, have you share your health journey, you're 35 years old. Speaker 3
1:26:10 So when this happened, you were, you're like 30, 31. Speaker 13
1:26:13 30th birthday. 1:26:14 I got my first symptoms. Speaker 3
1:26:16 Okay. 1:26:17 You have a business analytics degree. 1:26:19 You were employed as an inventory coordinator for a supply chain. 1:26:22 Basically, your expertise is in supply chain administration. 1:26:26 You're held before the vaccination. 1:26:28 You had no health concerns. 1:26:29 You were on no medications and no restrictions. 1:26:34 And so, like, not even a med. 1:26:36 So you're just like a 30-year-old man. 1:26:39 Yeah. 1:26:41 29, actually, at the time. 1:26:42 29, yeah. 1:26:44 And... 1:26:45 just going on with hard work or doing your thing. 1:26:48 And you're one of the few people that even the Vaccine Injury Support Program agrees this is vaccine injury. Speaker 13
1:26:58 I never had the medical professional push back against my question. Speaker 3
1:27:02 Right. 1:27:02 So you're an exception here. 1:27:04 Is every doctor that touches you says this is vaccine injury? Speaker 13
1:27:07 No. 1:27:08 Every doctor that touched me says, I would bring them the medical literature and they would say, 1:27:15 It's plausible, right? Speaker 3
1:27:16 Okay. 1:27:17 Well, this is interesting. 1:27:19 We'll get back to that because it's part of the story that there's resistance out there. 1:27:24 But can you share with us what happened with your, and I have to stop. Speaker 3
1:27:30 You're on dialysis six days a week. 1:27:32 Every other day. 1:27:33 Every other day now. 1:27:35 You actually, we tried to schedule you to testify yesterday, but you couldn't. Speaker 23
1:27:39 Correct. Speaker 3
1:27:39 And that's because you don't live in Ontario or Ottawa. 1:27:43 You had to arrange with the dialysis clinic here in Ottawa to do dialysis because it's necessary for you to stay alive. 1:27:51 And they scheduled you for yesterday when we wanted you to testify yesterday. Speaker 13
1:27:56 Yeah, but I think there was like a misscheduling. 1:28:00 I think I thought I was going in the morning. 1:28:02 So that's why I told Ottawa Hospital 1.30 would be a good time. 1:28:07 So we worked around it. 1:28:08 Either way, I would have had to be here for two nights anyway. Speaker 3
1:28:11 Right. 1:28:11 But I'm just, I think it's important for everyone watching you to understand that when you travel, you have to make arrangements for a dialysis clinic to give you dialysis when you travel. 1:28:24 It's part of your commitment to coming here today was having to make those arrangements. Speaker 3
1:28:30 Okay. 1:28:31 So you get your second Pfizer shot. 1:28:38 either was June 22nd or 23rd of 2021. 1:28:42 Can you tell us what happened? Speaker 13
1:28:44 So you wanted me to tell you when I first got sick? Speaker 3
1:28:48 Yeah, like start at the beginning and just share your journey with me. Speaker 13
1:28:52 So it was three weeks after my second dose. 1:28:55 And I woke up, like I said, on my 30th birthday with a swollen face and a hoarse voice. 1:29:02 I didn't think much of it. 1:29:03 I thought I was getting old. 1:29:05 I go into work and one of my co-workers said, 1:29:08 He insists every day that I'm getting sicker and sicker and no one else believes them. 1:29:13 I've been wearing a mask, a 95 mask at work. 1:29:16 That's to be safe. 1:29:18 And then I go home on the Friday afternoon. 1:29:22 It's half day Friday. 1:29:24 And I could see the indentations of my socks and my feet when I took them off. 1:29:30 That's strange. 1:29:32 And then the next day it gets worse. 1:29:36 My swelling gets worse. 1:29:38 My feet are bigger. 1:29:39 I go to the clinic. 1:29:41 They check me for blood clots, but they can't figure out what it is. 1:29:44 It gets worse, sort of the ER. Speaker 3
1:29:46 So I'm just going to slow you down. 1:29:47 Your feet are swelling to the point where you feel the need to go and get medical attention. Speaker 13
1:29:52 Correct. 1:29:54 Okay. 1:29:55 And then later on, I try to take my dog for a walk. 1:29:58 I can't get down my short street. 1:30:01 So I'm like, okay, well, I guess this is getting worse. 1:30:03 It's time for the ER. 1:30:04 I go in. 1:30:07 They take about 14 vials of blood, urine test. 1:30:13 Doctor comes back and he's like kind of weeping. 1:30:16 And he says, your kidneys are leaking protein. 1:30:18 You have something called nephrotic syndrome. 1:30:21 And I didn't really know what that means. 1:30:24 So, yeah, they x-rayed my chest, do more tests, more blood work. 1:30:30 Quarter liter of fluid. 1:30:31 That's my first IV I've ever had. 1:30:34 And then I kind of sit there dumbfounded. 1:30:36 I'm like, I asked the nurse, is this bad? 1:30:40 She's kind of crying and she says, yeah, your kidneys are important. 1:30:44 I go, this seems bad. 1:30:46 It hadn't been the next day for more testing. 1:30:49 Put me on Lasix pills. 1:30:54 Send me home, say your GP has to quarterback this care. 1:31:01 Then it gets worse. 1:31:02 I start filling up more. 1:31:04 And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to leave my doctor's appointment. 1:31:06 My solicitor says, no, you need to go back. 1:31:07 I said, I got the pills. 1:31:10 They saw me. 1:31:10 They've done everything. 1:31:12 She says, no, they can do more for you. 1:31:13 You're getting worse. 1:31:14 So she takes me back. 1:31:16 This time I go to triage. 1:31:18 Same nurses there. Speaker 3
1:31:18 I'm just going to slow you down. 1:31:20 You had actually, you'd gained about 40 pounds by then, right? 1:31:24 Not yet. 1:31:24 Oh, not yet. Speaker 13
1:31:25 It was still slowly building. 1:31:26 But at this point, I still was able to pass urine. 1:31:31 with Lasix. 1:31:35 I go back. 1:31:36 The same triage nurse sees me. 1:31:37 Luckily, she sees that I'm blowing up like a balloon. 1:31:41 And then this is COVID. 1:31:43 The ER is relatively full, the waiting room. 1:31:47 I think we're waiting five minutes before they bring me back in, so I skip the line in the triage. 1:31:53 They send me in. 1:31:54 They want more urine, and I'm in there for a few minutes. 1:31:58 I come out, I say I can't. 1:32:01 I can't. 1:32:02 So that was the last time I did that naturally. 1:32:08 So they were kind of expecting that. 1:32:09 And then I spend the day there on a Lasix infusion. 1:32:16 And they basically tell me if the Lasix infusion doesn't work, it's more effective, you're staying. 1:32:21 If it's not, we'll send you home tonight, but you're going to be checked into Oakville Hospital tomorrow to be monitored by the nephrologist. 1:32:30 So luckily I did that, that day I was able to, and, um, and I go home and at that point I'm only urinating with Lasix. 1:32:39 Um, so basically, uh, within a week of my 30th birthday, I haven't, I haven't passed urine naturally. 1:32:48 Um, and so, yeah, uh, they basically, that was in the Georgetown ER. 1:32:54 And then, um, 1:32:57 They basically check me into Oakville Hospital the next day and tell me just to drive there and expect to stay three nights to prepare for a renal biopsy and an ultrasound. 1:33:13 So you go there. 1:33:16 But nobody checks into a hospital for a biopsy. 1:33:19 I found that out later, so it was worse than I thought. 1:33:24 So what happens? 1:33:26 I get to the hospital. 1:33:28 They run a 24-hour urine test to check for how much protein I'm spilling into my urine, which is possible because they also added something called albumin, which helps me. 1:33:38 Albumin and the Lasix helps me urinate because the albumin is the protein that's in your blood that I'm spilling. 1:33:46 So they do that test, and the first one comes back at 90 grams of protein. 1:33:52 They get concerned at 300 milligrams. 1:33:56 And they've never seen 90 grams. 1:33:58 So the suspicion was that it was either off the charts or it was a misread. 1:34:02 So they do it again later in the month and it's 35 grams. 1:34:05 It's a lot of protein. 1:34:08 And then, yeah, at this point, that's when I'm up to 260 pounds. Speaker 3
1:34:12 So I just want to interpret. 1:34:13 So this protein is not supposed to be in your blood anywhere near these levels. 1:34:18 So that means your kidneys are failing. Speaker 13
1:34:20 Yeah, they're scarred. 1:34:22 I had minimal change. 1:34:23 I had... 1:34:24 Nephrotic syndrome, so there's protein spilling out of my blood into my urine. Speaker 3
1:34:31 Okay. 1:34:32 How long are you in the hospital? 1:34:33 They said three days. Speaker 13
1:34:35 I was there for five months with two. 1:34:38 They released me twice to try to get me home and, I guess, help in that sense. 1:34:45 But I kept going back. 1:34:46 I kept getting worse. Speaker 3
1:34:51 So what happens to you mentally when you're spending five months in the hospital? Speaker 13
1:34:56 Well, I was on, after the biopsy, they diagnosed me with FSGS, excuse me, they diagnosed me with minimal change disease, which can be treated with prednisone. 1:35:08 I've heard from a lot of nurses that it's a miracle. 1:35:11 You've heard in situations like that and you take the prednisone and one day your kidneys turn back on because it eliminates the inflammation. 1:35:20 Um, so they put me on 60 milligrams of prednisone, which, uh, has significant psychological effects on a bit of a lightweight. 1:35:28 So it affected me quite a bit. 1:35:29 It gives you a mood swings. 1:35:31 It causes like a, there's a whole, it affects your whole body. 1:35:36 Um, and I was also on Lasix continuously. 1:35:40 So you combine those two things and I was, I just was thirsty. 1:35:46 Like I've never known thirst like that in my life. 1:35:48 Uh, and. 1:35:50 I wasn't allowed to drink much water because obviously I wasn't getting rid of it very fast with the Lasix and the albumin. 1:36:00 So I was extremely thirsty. 1:36:03 I heard someone on the CBC describe, a guest on the CBC said that they've heard that a high dose of prednisone is similar to something like speed. 1:36:17 It's a very powerful drug. 1:36:20 So I was in there the whole time. 1:36:23 You know, it was just a terrible experience. 1:36:25 It was a nightmare. 1:36:26 But the whole point of the prednisone, like I said, the reason why they were doing this was because the only other way to get the fluid off me was dialysis, and dialysis would kill your kidney function. Speaker 3
1:36:36 And at this time when you're in the hospital, I mean, you basically have lost your ability to move. 1:36:41 Can you share with us what that experience was like? Speaker 13
1:36:43 That progressed. 1:36:45 During the five months, I could walk. 1:36:48 At a certain point, they weren't sure if the lack of mobility was from the Lasix pulling the potassium out of my blood. 1:36:58 So there were some problems with mobility then. 1:37:01 But then at a certain point, this is my third discharge between my third and fourth admission. 1:37:07 We're talking around Thanksgiving, October. 1:37:15 I wake up one morning. 1:37:17 And I can't sit up. 1:37:22 And then eventually an ambulance is called and the paramedics strap me to a skid chair, like a sit up stretcher. 1:37:33 And they get me out of my house. 1:37:36 And I can't even walk to the transfer from the stretcher, from the chair to the stretcher. 1:37:44 So they have to bear hug me. 1:37:46 and then bring the stretcher behind me and then put me on the stretcher in the ambulance. Speaker 3
1:37:52 I'm just going to pull up two photos because around that time you start getting blistering on your feet. 1:38:00 Can you share? Speaker 13
1:38:00 I took that picture the night before I woke up unable to move. 1:38:05 That's what nephrotic syndrome does. 1:38:09 That's when you can't pass urine and the fluid just stays in your body. 1:38:13 I was drowning in my body basically. Speaker 3
1:38:15 Okay, so when you're talking about swelling feet, I mean, we all have a picture in our minds, but this is what it looked like. Speaker 3
1:38:21 So, and my understanding is this, well, let's flip to the next photo. 1:38:27 Can you share with us what this is showing? Speaker 13
1:38:29 So this is after I'm admitted to Georgetown again. 1:38:35 What happened was, I'm not sure if you have the other one where there's the compression stock on it, but I forget why there was a bandage on my foot. 1:38:44 and then on both feet and then the compression sock. 1:38:48 And it was causing a lot of pain, so it was pushing fluid out of my feet. 1:38:52 And then basically we got, the nurse came in and he took them off, but he said, it looks like there's basically a tourniquet on your feet right now. 1:39:02 And he said, I can cut this off or I can pull it off and be immediate and stupid. 1:39:06 I said, save the socks, pull it off, which was worse. 1:39:08 And then it pushed all this fluid out of my feet. 1:39:12 And then the next night, all that fluid still, it was like pushing back into my feet and I was screaming in pain all night. 1:39:18 I had to take pain meds. 1:39:22 That's the only time I accepted any kind of strong pain med from the doc, from the nurse. 1:39:27 But yeah, so then the fluid ended up pushing back into my foot and it was just the most pain I've ever, it was a very painful trip. Speaker 3
1:39:38 And then you ended up losing your kidneys. Speaker 13
1:39:41 Yeah, so they gave me lots of chances. 1:39:46 They ran this Lasix albumin. 1:39:49 They added cyclosporine and none other, just hopefully solved the problem. 1:39:58 And then finally they said, we can't get this fluid off without dialysis. 1:40:03 Like this isn't working. 1:40:05 You're not responding to the steroids, steroid resistant. 1:40:09 So that's when the nephrologist came in with the hospital doctor who I've had before, which was good, and they kind of just said, like, we're done, we're going to dialyze you six days a week. 1:40:24 Something we missed here was that you can see there's a spot there. 1:40:32 When I was being transferred again, my feet leaned against the ambulance and caused blistering, and then the wound care specialist 1:40:40 nurse came in to see me to deal with them because they were turning black almost and he said he's never seen something like that he would have come immediately if he understood what they looked like and then he he had said he had to call a friend he came back with a plastic surgeon uh and they started this i think it was about 30 percent of the surface area of my feet they had to cut it off on the bedside and um yeah that was that was a little i hurt a little bit um and then i was uh 1:41:10 I had wound care for the next two months on a daily. Speaker 3
1:41:15 I just need to focus us because we have limited time. 1:41:20 So they start dialysis, which then that's the death knell for your kidneys. 1:41:25 Your kidneys shut down. 1:41:27 You've been on dialysis now for a long time. 1:41:31 It's necessary for you to survive. 1:41:34 And you're on a transplant list to get kidneys. 1:41:38 But 1:41:39 when I was interviewing you earlier, I mean, you made it clear, you know, even if I get a kidney transplant, I know I'm going to be on dialysis again. Speaker 13
1:41:47 Yeah. 1:41:47 I'm on the deceased donor list. 1:41:50 So they say the average for that is 12 years. 1:41:53 So that might, doesn't even get me to 50. 1:41:55 And then, so yeah, then I'll be waiting again or on dialysis. 1:42:05 Hopefully they figured out something better than what we have now, but. 1:42:10 Yeah, it's just a kind of, you expected that it's eventually going to fail. 1:42:15 The way a transplant works is you have to take medication that is also nephrotoxic, that hurts the kidney, and your body's always trying to reject it too. 1:42:25 So you take this anti-rejection medication that eventually does the kidney. Speaker 3
1:42:30 Thank you, those are my questions. Speaker 23
1:42:34 Thanks for being here. 1:42:37 Through the whole process, has any of the doctors acknowledged that it had to do with the vaccines? Speaker 13
1:42:45 Like I said, so when I first was, like, going to Oakwood Hospital, I called a lot of my close friends, and one of them looked it up already. 1:42:54 He was like, this is nephrotic syndrome. 1:42:57 There's a lot of peer-reviewed literature reporting it after... 1:43:01 after vaccination, the European Union was investigating it. 1:43:05 Like it was this, there were governments on this, that people were getting this. 1:43:10 And then, so I brought that to different doctors and I would talk to the nurses about it when I was admitted. 1:43:16 And like one doctor even came back, he took time out of his day to print off some medical literature for me to look at, to suggest that that was suggesting this, right? Speaker 23
1:43:27 Have you applied to the vaccine? Speaker 13
1:43:30 Yeah, I was approved. 1:43:32 I had a panel of three doctors unanimously agree that this was – that's what this was. 1:43:39 I had a doctor – because you can have a doctor apply with you. 1:43:42 I had a doctor that was good enough to do that. 1:43:45 So, yeah. Speaker 23
1:43:47 Sounds like you're one of the lucky ones. 1:43:51 How was the process with the program? Speaker 13
1:43:54 It was terrible. 1:43:54 I went – 1:43:59 on a medical leave to train for home hemodialysis. 1:44:02 I was on peritoneal dialysis for most of the time until my nurse told me to go to the ER because I was getting bad. 1:44:11 I wanted to do it at home, more dialysis, it's healthier, it's safer, it's more freedom. 1:44:18 So I contacted VISP, my caseworker, and I told her this was happening. 1:44:26 I said, I need this time off. 1:44:28 What's the process? 1:44:28 She told me all the process. 1:44:30 I followed it. 1:44:31 I sent her all the documents from HR, from my doctor, everything. 1:44:38 I get a message, an email, two weeks into my leave saying, oh, you're not eligible until we get a letter from your HR after you're done your leave, and then we'll process it. 1:44:50 It takes a month to process things, so I wasn't going to get paid for another month after I got back to work. 1:44:56 I hadn't applied for EI yet because they told me that I was going to get my 90% from this. 1:45:02 So then I apply for EI. 1:45:04 I call EI. 1:45:04 And I say, I have this pending payment from VISP coming. 1:45:10 Because I had that discussion with EI, they put a hold on my EI. 1:45:17 So I didn't get any money from EI, from Sickness EI or VISP the whole time I was off training. 1:45:22 I ended up cashing in some of my TFSA. 1:45:26 to get some money because I wasn't getting anything from them. 1:45:30 I got my EI after I got back to work, and then VISP told me in mid-March, we're just not going to process this anymore. 1:45:38 So now I'm applying through VIAP, public health, and I still don't have anything for that. Speaker 23
1:45:44 How long was the process from start to finish? 1:45:46 How long did it take for you to get approved? 1:45:47 Which process? 1:45:48 To get approved from the time you applied. Speaker 13
1:45:50 About a year and a half to get on VISP itself, about a year and a half or so, maybe two years. Speaker 23
1:45:57 Well, thanks for being here and explaining all that. 1:46:00 I think it's important to the people at home that are watching and the people that are here today listening to know what the process is for each individual case and how hard it is for the injured people to get the help they need. 1:46:13 Thank you. Speaker 1
1:46:15 And I just want to add to that, Cameron. 1:46:16 Once again, thanks for being here. 1:46:18 I don't think what people don't understand is that you went from viably 1:46:23 working full time and having a life to not actually being able to have an income. 1:46:28 And not only do you not have the income, there's no support to have that program to sustain your life. 1:46:34 I mean, what people don't understand is that when you can't work, you don't have income. Speaker 13
1:46:39 I was working until, I'm on sickness EI now. 1:46:41 I was working until June because balancing home hemodialysis and work, I was going to have a two hour, two hours of driving a day. 1:46:49 I was getting like no sleep. 1:46:51 So I was just existing to work on dialysis. 1:46:55 So it was getting dangerous. 1:46:58 So I finally asked VIAP again, how does this work? 1:47:04 They told me. 1:47:06 And then I told my boss I'm going on leave. 1:47:08 And then finally they were like, oh, we can't tell you when. 1:47:12 She called me back after I told my boss that. 1:47:14 She said, oh, we can't promise you we'll even look at this before the EI runs out. 1:47:18 So we don't know when we're going to actually 1:47:21 start this income replacement. 1:47:24 So she told me I had to go beg for LTD. And then basically, and then I called them while I was, since I've been on leave, where's my application, what's happening? 1:47:38 But they said, oh, you're in the queue, you're in the queue. 1:47:40 I called them twice. 1:47:41 I called them again last week and they said, oh no, actually we need you to fill out an application. 1:47:46 And then I said, well, can you guys promise me it'll be, can you guys tell me when it's going to be done? 1:47:50 They're like, no. 1:47:52 they still don't know when they're going to have this income replacement ready. 1:47:55 And I mean, basically my plan is to be on it until transplant, then I'll try to find another job or go back to work. Speaker 1
1:48:01 Right. 1:48:02 So, so in the meantime, Cameron, so for those that don't know what LT is, it's long-term disability, right? 1:48:06 Yeah. 1:48:07 And that's through the company program, the insurance you had through your company. Speaker 13
1:48:10 And I asked them what happens if they deny my, my claim, my, my, and they said, oh, we don't know. 1:48:15 You have to try to get on something else. Speaker 1
1:48:17 Right. 1:48:17 So they're waiting for you to deal with that. 1:48:21 As a reason not to offer you. Speaker 13
1:48:22 No, they're just telling me they have no timeline. 1:48:24 They can't tell me when they're going to look at it. 1:48:26 There's no reason. 1:48:27 Besides this, they don't have the manpower, right? 1:48:29 I believe Public Health Agency of Canada had a layoff of 200 people before they got this program. Speaker 1
1:48:33 Sure. 1:48:34 But what I meant is that your insurance company is saying we want you to deal with this first before we'll talk. Speaker 13
1:48:39 No, my insurance company is just saying that has to do with an administrative thing when my probation ended at work and when I'm eligible. 1:48:46 I don't want to get into that too much. 1:48:47 Okay. 1:48:48 Yeah. 1:48:49 It's complicated. 1:48:50 A little bit, yeah. Speaker 1
1:48:51 I think people need to understand that. 1:48:54 It's not just an injury. 1:48:56 It's how do people replace their income. Speaker 13
1:48:58 And it's also the medical system itself. 1:49:00 I know people have talked about it, but there's been shift changes in the dialysis clinics, at least that I'm aware of, that's negatively affecting all dialysis patients and the morale of the nurses. 1:49:17 I've heard stories of people like, 1:49:19 having their time shortened just to manage the logistics of it. 1:49:25 You know, Canada has a whole problem where it's not just us. 1:49:30 Like I've talked to people who are chronically ill, disabled, who are afraid to advance their careers because they say they feel like they found an employer that's going to accommodate them and they're afraid to go get another job. 1:49:42 There's an institutionalized intolerance of sick people in this country. 1:49:46 You don't understand that until you're sick, right? 1:49:50 Well, thank you. 1:49:50 Thank you for sharing that. 1:49:51 Thank you for coming today. 1:49:51 So our next witness is going to be called by lawyer, Mariam Mohamed. Speaker 3
1:49:55 Thank you. 1:49:55 Thank you. 1:49:56 Thank you. 1:49:56 Thank you. 1:49:56 Thank you. 1:49:56 Thank you. 1:49:56 Thank you. 1:49:57 Thank you. 1:49:57 Thank you. 1:49:57 Thank you. 1:49:58 Thank you. 1:49:58 Thank you. 1:49:58 Thank you. 1:49:58 Thank you. 1:49:59 Thank you. Speaker 10
1:49:59 Thank you. 1:49:59 Thank you. 1:50:00 Thank you. 1:50:00 Thank you. 1:50:00 Thank you. Speaker 7
1:50:02 Thank you. Speaker
1:50:02 Thank you. 1:50:02 Thank you. 1:50:03 Thank you. 1:50:03 Thank you. 1:50:03 Thank you. 1:50:03 Thank you. 1:50:04 Thank you. 1:50:04 Thank you. 1:50:04 Thank you. 1:50:04 Thank you. 1:50:05 Thank you. 1:50:05 Thank you. 1:50:06 Thank you. 1:50:06 Thank you. 1:50:06 Thank you. 1:50:06 Thank you. 1:50:07 Thank you. 1:50:07 Thank you. 1:50:07 Thank you. 1:50:07 Thank you. 1:50:08 Thank you. 1:50:08 Thank you. 1:50:08 Thank you. 1:50:09 Thank you. 1:50:09 Thank you. 1:50:09 Thank you. 1:50:10 Thank you. 1:50:10 Thank you. 1:50:11 Thank you. 1:50:11 Thank you. Speaker 8
1:50:12 Thank you. 1:50:16 Thank you. 1:50:16 Thank you. 1:50:16 Thank you. 1:50:16 Thank you. 1:50:17 Thank you. 1:50:17 Thank you. 1:50:17 Thank you. 1:50:18 Thank you. 1:50:18 Thank you. 1:50:18 Thank you. 1:50:18 Thank 1:50:25 Bonjour, Mme Barbe. Speaker 5
1:50:28 Levez la main droite. 1:50:30 Mettez la main sur la tête, s'il vous plaît. 1:50:32 Est-ce que vous affirmez que tout ce que vous allez dire sera la vérité, rien que la vérité, juste la vérité? 1:50:39 Oui, toujours. 1:50:40 Le jury. 1:50:41 Oui, merci. 1:50:43 Donc, Mme Barbe, vous êtes une femme de 50 ans aujourd'hui même. Speaker 5
1:50:49 Bonne fête. 1:50:50 Merci. 1:50:50 Merci. 1:50:51 Donc, vous êtes mère de quatre enfants entre 15 et 31 ans. 1:50:55 Effectivement. 1:50:56 Et vous êtes une grand-mère de six petits-enfants et un septième naîtra au mois d'octobre. 1:51:03 Oui. 1:51:05 Donc, vous, avant la pandémie, vous étiez une femme active, vous cumuliez les emplois, vous étiez… 1:51:16 C'était serveuse au Saint-Hubert quand la pandémie est arrivée. 1:51:19 Puis là, vous ne pouviez plus travailler à cause des confinements. 1:51:24 Donc, vous vous êtes recyclée comme agente de sécurité à cette époque-là. 1:51:28 Oui. 1:51:28 Puis vous continuez de faire des ménages. 1:51:33 Vous continuez d'être femme de ménage. 1:51:36 Donc... Speaker 14
1:51:41 So you were a security guard in hospitals, in long-term care homes. 1:51:47 You even worked in vaccination clinics, I believe. 1:51:51 You worked in grocery stores. 1:51:58 And you received three doses of Moderna, is that correct? 1:52:02 The first dose was October 16th, 2021. 1:52:05 The second was the 13th of November, 2021. 1:52:08 And the third dose was on the 17th of December 2021. 1:52:12 Is that correct? 1:52:13 Yes. 1:52:14 So can you tell us why you chose to get vaccinated? 1:52:21 I got vaccinated because my employer required it. 1:52:26 So this was an employment condition at the time? 1:52:31 Yes, it was. 1:52:36 So I described 1:52:38 you in very broad strokes, but could you tell us more? 1:52:46 So could you tell us about the Natalie that was before vaccination? 1:52:52 So Natalie before vaccination was a functioning human being. 1:53:04 I liked to help my neighbors. 1:53:07 help my community. 1:53:08 That was my strength at the time. 1:53:11 I was an active member of society. Speaker 8
1:53:14 I loved life. 1:53:22 At the time, I was a single mom. Speaker 14
1:53:24 I had one child. 1:53:28 I had just bought a house and I was proud of that. 1:53:32 And I was a hard worker. 1:53:34 I raised four children. 1:53:39 You raised four children alone, is that right? 1:53:43 No, I wasn't fully alone. 1:53:46 I was with the father of the oldest ones for eight years. 1:53:50 I was with the father of the youngest ones for 21 years. 1:53:54 And now I'm happily married. 1:54:01 You said that you love being in the kitchen, that you entertained at your home. 1:54:07 Yes, I had a passion for cooking and a passion for dancing. 1:54:15 As I said, I loved helping my community. 1:54:18 I loved being there for people. 1:54:20 Service was what I loved. 1:54:23 I offered customer service in my career. 1:54:28 So when you received your vaccines, 1:54:32 You worked as a security guard in vaccination clinics, and that's where you got your vaccinations. 1:54:38 Yes, I live in the upper Gatineau area. 1:54:40 I'm originally from Gatineau. 1:54:44 So there was one vaccination clinic available. 1:54:48 It was in Maniwaki, and that's where I worked. 1:54:54 I also worked at the hospital, at the long-term care home, and at the metro grocery store. 1:55:02 So when you were offered a dose or when you went to get vaccinated, what were you told about potential effects? 1:55:13 Well, I was told I'd have a bit of redness at the site. 1:55:18 I was told I might have a bit of a fever. 1:55:20 I was told I might have muscle pain. 1:55:28 So localized, yes, localized pain. 1:55:33 And then what symptoms did you get? 1:55:35 How long was it before you had symptoms? 1:55:38 Well, after my dose. 1:55:39 After which one? 1:55:42 After the first dose, I had a bit of redness and local pain at the site. 1:55:52 And then I started to feel sick. 1:55:54 I had a fever, a runny nose. 1:55:58 And after your second dose, I had muscle pains. 1:56:06 Second dose was the same. 1:56:12 Before being vaccinated, I had COVID. 1:56:20 I must apologize. Speaker 5
1:56:28 After your first dose, you spoke to me. 1:56:31 Your second dose, you spoke to me. Speaker 14
1:56:33 So after your first dose, you told me earlier that you were very tired, that you had muscle pain, you had eye pain. 1:56:42 Yes, I was sensitive to light. 1:56:45 I was sensitive to neon lighting. 1:56:48 I struggle with that. 1:56:53 And you had troubled sleep. 1:56:55 Yes, I had troubled sleep. 1:57:02 And your doctor prescribed muscle relaxants? 1:57:07 Yes, I took medication for muscle relaxation and insomnia. 1:57:13 But these were, in rapid succession, many prescriptions. 1:57:20 And so after your third dose, why did you get to the third dose? 1:57:31 Well, my employer required us to be fully vaccinated. 1:57:35 So he or they required that our proof of vaccination be provided. 1:57:41 And that involved three doses. 1:57:44 And so at the time you worked in a vaccination clinic and the nurses told you, well, why don't you get it now? 1:57:51 Because you're going to need it eventually. 1:57:53 Your employer will require it. 1:57:54 Yes, that's how it worked. 1:57:57 So we needed a full course of vaccinations. 1:58:03 We weren't offered the option of getting tested for COVID every three days. 1:58:08 We were offered vaccination. 1:58:09 That's it. 1:58:10 I was a single mom. 1:58:11 I had a child. 1:58:12 I just bought a home. 1:58:13 And I couldn't afford to lose the job that I had. 1:58:16 So I did get vaccinated. 1:58:19 It was an obligation for me. 1:58:22 And I continue to pay the price of that today. Speaker 5
1:58:27 And after your third dose, Speaker 14
1:58:32 And after dose number three, you started to feel pressure in your chest. 1:58:39 Yes, that's correct. 1:58:41 My heart was beating. 1:58:48 But it's like it was restricted. 1:58:52 I felt pressure in my chest. 1:58:56 I don't really have the words to describe it properly. 1:59:01 And 1:59:02 It's hard to talk because I have brain fog. 1:59:06 I have so many illnesses that I'm discovering in my body. 1:59:14 So we're going to cover this gradually. 1:59:16 So when you started feeling that pressure around your heart, you were a security guard in a hospital. 1:59:24 And so you got tested for blood pressure. 1:59:28 Yes, they tested my pressure. 1:59:31 I was okay. 1:59:33 And then they told you what, that you weren't sick? 1:59:37 Yes. 1:59:41 So I worked in the assessment room or near the assessment room. 1:59:46 It was 10 steps or so away. 1:59:48 It was easy for me to get checked out. 1:59:49 I could easily go up to someone and say, I'm not feeling well. 1:59:52 I feel a pressure in my chest. 1:59:54 And the ladies who worked there took me in very easily and checked out everything. 2:00:03 And they told me I was okay. 2:00:05 So how did your situation deteriorate after that? 2:00:09 So then I got COVID again. 2:00:14 So you were sick with COVID at least three times after your three vaccination doses. 2:00:20 Is that correct? 2:00:20 Yes. 2:00:22 And so you told me earlier on that you got COVID so often that you were constantly febrile and you had to take Paxlovid. 2:00:32 In fact, 2:00:33 to reduce that fever, yes. 2:00:36 The pharmacist did that. 2:00:38 I called my doctor. 2:00:40 I said I wasn't doing well. 2:00:42 And my doctor said, well, you're in the worst part. 2:00:46 And it had been two weeks. 2:00:49 So you were febrile for two weeks? 2:00:51 Yes, I had a high fever. 2:00:54 I couldn't eat. 2:00:55 I had to stay in bed. 2:00:57 I had dry mouth, crusty mouth. 2:01:00 I was dehydrated, of course. 2:01:08 And then later on, as time kept passing, what other symptoms did you get? 2:01:24 So in 2022, I was experiencing a lot of muscle pain. 2:01:29 I had no more strength in my arms or hands. 2:01:36 You had... 2:01:38 Carpal tunnel syndrome. 2:01:41 Yes, and I underwent surgery for that, and I still have it. 2:01:49 Three months ago, they operated again, the carpal tunnel, and I still have it. 2:01:56 So you have what you call trigger fingers. 2:02:02 I was told it was neurological, so they kept on operating. 2:02:12 I also had stomach pain. 2:02:14 I have irritable bowel. 2:02:16 And you told us that you vomit every day? 2:02:22 Yes, three or four times every morning, continually, every day. 2:02:33 Then I went to my family doctor, who'd been my doctor for over 40 years. 2:02:42 I mentioned my symptoms because after dose number three, my feet were burning. 2:02:47 It's as if my big toenail was going to explode off my foot because of the pressure I felt inside. 2:02:58 I had sluggish hands. 2:03:00 My feet were killing me. 2:03:02 I was vomiting. 2:03:05 I experienced migraines. 2:03:06 I had to go to the hospital and get an IV. 2:03:11 in order to treat the pain. 2:03:14 I have blurred vision. 2:03:15 I have vision loss. Speaker 8
2:03:22 I also have an aneurysm. Speaker 14
2:03:29 You mentioned to me that you also have a coordination issue between your brain and your body. 2:03:38 So sometimes if you're happy, you might cry. 2:03:42 You have no control over your body. 2:03:47 No, it's kind of like my body confuses emotions. 2:03:51 I struggle to explain it. 2:04:01 You say you experience facial paralysis as well? 2:04:05 Yeah, sometimes my mouth is crooked. 2:04:10 And one side of my face kind of droops. 2:04:17 I also have stenosis. 2:04:20 I have nerve, nerve compressions. 2:04:23 I have degenerative arthritis. 2:04:26 I have a neurological disorder. 2:04:30 I have high fibromyalgia. 2:04:33 That's everything they told me. 2:04:36 And you stop menstruating. 2:04:37 Yes, I stopped menstruating after the third dose. 2:04:41 And I'm only 50 years old. 2:04:43 That isn't long. 2:04:45 And even then, this was five years ago. 2:04:48 So you were younger. 2:04:49 Yes, it was five years ago. 2:04:58 They also told me I had Arnold's neuralgia. 2:05:08 I had a condition that affected my jaw. 2:05:12 I also have new symptoms that crop up. 2:05:24 And how were you received in the medical system? 2:05:29 It was horrendous. 2:05:32 I was abandoned. 2:05:35 I was seeking answers. 2:05:38 but I didn't get any answers. 2:05:42 I had to do my own research. 2:05:51 Together, we had to move forward, but I was left to my own devices. 2:05:57 And I don't understand how my doctor over 40 years had asked me, well, what happened? 2:06:10 He couldn't explain my symptoms. 2:06:13 He said I was a rare and complex case that it was difficult for him to know. 2:06:22 I had hand surgery. 2:06:25 I'm waiting to go to a hospital in Montreal. 2:06:30 The request has been made, but it takes a long time. 2:06:33 You say this because you don't have enough services in the Udois region? 2:06:36 That's right. 2:06:37 I have to go to Montreal. 2:06:40 So my chart ended up with a neurosurgeon. 2:06:45 And a month and a half ago, the neurosurgeon got in touch. 2:06:49 I had been waiting since 2024. 2:06:53 And so he sent requisitions for the infiltrations I needed. 2:06:58 And in the public system, they didn't call me from January 2025. 2:07:03 And so I took matters into my own hands. 2:07:07 I went to 2:07:09 a service to receive injections, a private service. 2:07:14 I had to do that on my own. 2:07:20 So you had a neurosurgeon, and what did he say to you? 2:07:26 A month and a half ago, he got in touch and said, Ms. Barb, you've been calling me a lot. 2:07:32 And I said, yes, it's because I don't understand what's happening to my body. 2:07:34 I need help. 2:07:35 And he said, I have to transfer you to a neurologist. 2:07:39 I said, you've had my chart since 2024, and you've got to transfer me to a neurologist, you say? 2:07:47 I don't get it. 2:07:52 So I got an appointment with that neurologist. 2:07:56 He didn't even know who had made the requisition to have me see him. 2:08:04 I said which neurosurgeon it was, and he said a neurosurgeon, and I said yes. 2:08:09 So I spoke to the neurologist. 2:08:11 I asked him to look at my photos because I'm not the same person now. 2:08:17 I am unrecognizable to myself. 2:08:21 I experience shame. 2:08:23 I live in a very small community and it's hard for me. 2:08:29 What's hard for you about living in a small community? 2:08:33 Is it that everybody knows you? 2:08:35 Everybody knows 2:08:36 knows where you started and where you're at now is that what it is yes it's hard for the people i love for my children for my husband you showed me that you took a spike protein test and we've filed this as evidence 2:09:04 It was negative for one thing, but it was positive for the spike protein. 2:09:08 So what were you told about the result of that test? 2:09:16 Well, I have a new doctor that took me on two months ago and I asked the doctor, could you please help me? 2:09:24 Could you send a requisition for a spike protein blood test? 2:09:30 I know that I'm vaccine injured. 2:09:34 And he said, sure, no problem. 2:09:37 Finally, he really listened to me. 2:09:42 That requisition, you can't get it anywhere. 2:09:44 You have to find the right spot to get this blood test. 2:09:50 And the doctors, they don't want to talk to us. 2:09:56 A rare and complex case in the Udawah is not attractive to a doctor. 2:10:05 And so you were told by doctors that you just had to accept your new life. 2:10:11 After multiple emergency visits at the hospital, I have doctors who were kind of jumping up and down. 2:10:22 They were biting their nails. 2:10:25 They were told, they would tell me, Ms. Barb, you're going to have to get used to a new reality. 2:10:30 We won't be the same person again. 2:10:33 You have to relearn how to walk and at the hospital in Montreal, they can help you. 2:10:36 But how long am I going to wait? 2:10:38 My symptoms continue and I'm ashamed of them. 2:10:42 I don't have a life anymore. 2:10:45 I am disabled. 2:10:48 My new doctor has a lot of paperwork to do for me. 2:10:58 I have been approved by 2:11:00 Retraite Québec, the retirement body, since 2024. 2:11:04 As disabled, yes. 2:11:05 As a person with a disability. 2:11:07 My husband fills out my paperwork. 2:11:14 I don't know if you're aware what it's like to go from being so active and alive to being dysfunctional. 2:11:24 I am losing my autonomy and I am seeking answers now. 2:11:36 Why didn't they tell us? 2:11:38 I would often ask, well, is it the vaccine? 2:11:40 And they say, no, no. 2:11:42 And I would say, well, why no? 2:11:44 And they'd say, because we can't prove it. 2:11:45 And I'd say, well, why did it happen to me? 2:11:49 After so many years, I have been able to prove that it was the vaccine. 2:11:57 So why didn't they listen to me initially? 2:11:59 But now I remain disabled. 2:12:07 They said that I have an H24 active nervous system. 2:12:15 I lost over 25 pounds. 2:12:18 I wasn't able to eat this morning because it might have prevented me from talking. 2:12:24 You were telling me that it's hard to even comb your hair, that it can trigger crises. 2:12:30 Yes, I have a very sensitive scalp. 2:12:36 My scalp is sensitive and even my skin. 2:12:39 Nobody can touch me because I have a burning sensation. 2:12:43 It's kind of like arctic cold touching me. 2:12:46 I can't really describe it. 2:12:48 It's a burning inside of me. 2:12:51 My esophagus is also sensitive. 2:12:58 I sometimes struggle to speak because I struggle to find breath. 2:13:03 I'm going to stop here and let the MPs question you. 2:13:06 Thank you very much. Speaker 1
2:13:10 We're almost out of time. 2:13:11 And so I just want to just say thank you so much. Speaker 16
2:13:14 Thank you. Speaker 1
2:13:15 For coming and sharing your story and what you're dealing with. 2:13:19 We really appreciate it. 2:13:20 And I wish we had more time for questions. 2:13:22 We appreciate going through the process to hear everything that happened. 2:13:28 We have to keep going. 2:13:29 So we do appreciate you coming. 2:13:32 Thank you. Speaker 8
2:13:32 Thank you. Speaker 5
2:13:42 Thank you very much, Ms. Barb, for coming. Speaker 14
2:13:45 Thank you for coming, Ms. Barb. Speaker 10
2:13:54 So our next witness is Michael Osh. Speaker 3
2:13:57 Michael, am I saying that correctly? 2:14:02 Okay, which do you prefer? 2:14:05 Osh, okay. 2:14:06 I'll keep it that way then. 2:14:10 Can someone put the Bible in Michael's right hand? Speaker 27
2:14:14 I would rather swear on the charters of rights and freedoms. Speaker 3
2:14:18 Well, we can't do that. 2:14:19 We're either swearing on the Bible or we're affirming, and it makes no difference to us. 2:14:24 I'll just affirm it. 2:14:24 Okay. 2:14:25 So, Michael Osh, do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Speaker 3
2:14:34 I'm very pleased to have you here, Michael, and you're a very unusual person. 2:14:42 And you knew I meant that as a compliment. 2:14:44 So just so that people watching, Michael, understand, in 2002, where did you walk from and to? 2:14:56 Okay. 2:14:56 Like walked. 2:14:58 Okay. 2:14:59 Do we just hang on? 2:15:01 Hang on. 2:15:01 Is this mic on, David? Speaker 4
2:15:04 Okay, cool. Speaker 3
2:15:04 Okay. 2:15:05 So and then in 2005, where did you walk to and Speaker 10
2:15:11 Okay. 2:15:17 Just wait. Speaker 3
2:15:21 Mike isn't working, so we're going to start again. Speaker 27
2:15:29 Can you hear me now? 2:15:30 Yeah. 2:15:32 Chodar, can you pull this around a bit? Speaker 22
2:15:37 And then pull it right around. 2:15:39 And then push me in just a bit. Speaker 27
2:15:42 Oops. 2:15:43 There we go. 2:15:46 Wheelchair accidents. 2:15:47 I'm insured, though. Speaker 3
2:15:48 Yeah. 2:15:49 Well, we're not. 2:15:52 So we'll start again. 2:15:53 So, Michael, because I just want everyone to hear, because I don't know how many people walk across this nation. Speaker 27
2:16:01 More than you would think. Speaker 3
2:16:02 Okay. 2:16:03 But it's not that many. 2:16:04 So in 2:16:05 2002, you walked from Toronto to Labrador and back. 2:16:08 Correct, around the St. Lawrence Valley. 2:16:10 And then in 2005, you were telling us about your journey. Speaker 27
2:16:14 At the time, I was working at the Hockey Hall of Fame for the CBC, doing Hockey of People's History, the documentary. 2:16:21 And that was the year of the hockey strike. 2:16:23 And I quit my job at the Hockey Hall of Fame, and I walked all the way to the statue of Lord Stanley in Stanley Park. Speaker 3
2:16:30 You know, many of us during the hockey strike 2:16:32 I think felt compelled to do desperate things, but not walk across the nation. 2:16:37 So that, yeah. 2:16:38 And then, so you did film, television, tell us about. Speaker 27
2:16:41 Yeah, I was an artist most of my life, film, television, music, video editor, audio recording. 2:16:49 I've done everything from rock videos to infomercials in my time. 2:16:54 And what was your health like before vaccination? 2:16:57 I was completely healthy working in my garden and, 2:17:00 Semi-retired, working as a school bus driver, active, walking my dog every day. 2:17:05 A bit heavy than I should have been, but I was still in good health. 2:17:10 And no medications? 2:17:12 No medication at all. 2:17:14 So, David, can we pull up the first photo of Michael? Speaker 3
2:17:18 So, can you tell us about this photo? Speaker 27
2:17:20 This is a photo walking out the north shore of Quebec, taken by Monami Christiane Fleury, a photographer from Montreal. 2:17:28 And it's on my first trip. 2:17:29 Walking out to Labrador. 2:17:31 Okay. 2:17:32 And David, do you want to pull up the next photo? 2:17:36 That is March 30th, 2024, the day before I left to go on my trip to Vancouver. Speaker 3
2:17:43 Okay. 2:17:43 Walking. 2:17:44 From Toronto to Vancouver. 2:17:46 And there's people watching internationally. 2:17:50 How many kilometers is that? Speaker 27
2:17:52 From Toronto to Vancouver is roughly 5,000. 2:17:57 From Toronto out to Labrador and back was 6,800. Speaker 27
2:18:00 And here I thought you walked a long distance. Speaker 3
2:18:03 So, okay. 2:18:04 So you're a healthy, vibrant, really artist and your genre was more video and film. 2:18:14 What happens? 2:18:14 Tell us about your vaccine journey. Speaker 27
2:18:16 Well, when the pandemic happened, you know, before we go any further, the first thing I want to say is I want to say all my love to my wife, Saskia, who cannot attend today. 2:18:29 Without her during the past four years, I don't know where I would be. 2:18:33 And although she can't attend today, I know she's watching. 2:18:37 And I just want to send her my love and let her know that as much as it is that the injured people who get vaccine injured, it's also the families that suffer. 2:18:47 And I know she's suffered through this with me. 2:18:50 And I want to acknowledge that and just say, I love you, Ducky. Speaker 3
2:18:54 And before you go into the vaccine injured story, I also want to 2:18:58 If you can share with us your journey of how you got here into this committee room, because you've fundraised and you... Speaker 27
2:19:06 I was very lucky that the documentary that was done about me, Why Can't We Talk About This, brought a lot of attention to me. 2:19:13 And when I was mentioned that I was coming to the committee here, it's a rather expensive journey for me to rent a wheelchair vehicle, a hotel that's capable. 2:19:28 of having wheelchair people and my personal assistant, it's costing me almost $4,000 to be here today. 2:19:36 And so you crowd fundraised for that? 2:19:39 I'm very lucky that I have a lot of friends who want me to be here today and have raised enough money for me to be here. 2:19:46 And with that, the wheelchair vehicle that I rented is as large as a city wheelchair vehicle that you can have a five-seater with three wheelchairs can fit in it. 2:19:57 And I've offered anyone who's here the ability to use that today. 2:20:01 So if we're moving around to later today, we're going to make sure they get there. 2:20:06 Right. 2:20:06 So you're actually helping some other people. 2:20:09 Well, you know what? 2:20:10 As bad as my condition is, it doesn't mean that I can't still be of service to others. 2:20:15 And that's why I choose to live. Speaker 3
2:20:18 I'll tell you just a personal story. 2:20:20 So you rent this wheelchair bus. 2:20:24 Yeah. 2:20:25 and then you send an internal email basically saying, I'm offering anyone who needs a ride, you know. 2:20:34 In Southern Ontario, yeah. 2:20:36 Yeah, in this bus. 2:20:37 Or even here today. Speaker 27
2:20:38 Yeah, right, because you're doing some ferrying around. 2:20:41 Well, I'm very lucky. 2:20:42 I have a friend of mine who's a darts disabled driver from Vancouver, and he's taken time off to be here today to help me and also to help anyone else who needs help with a wheelchair. 2:20:54 Yeah. Speaker 3
2:20:55 So what I wanted to share with you is when my wife, Teresa, read your email, which it was in the evening, I think she wept for about two hours. 2:21:05 She was so touched. 2:21:07 And so you're setting an example for the rest of us that regardless of what our condition is, we're to love other people. Speaker 27
2:21:14 Well, you know what? 2:21:14 One of the things I live by now is the motto, taking the dis at a disability. 2:21:20 Okay. 2:21:21 So do you want to share with us your journey now? 2:21:23 Yeah. 2:21:24 Yes, I do. 2:21:28 Starting at the beginning of the pandemic, my father-in-law and mother-in-law were in long-term care and assisted care. 2:21:36 My parents were in retirement homes. 2:21:41 The need to be a primary caregiver to them made me want to get the vaccine so that I could be there for them. 2:21:49 And I did my first dose in 2020, late 2020, early 2021. 2:21:57 I don't have the dates in front of me. 2:21:58 I did a second dose in mid-2021. 2:22:02 And then my third dose, which was a Moderna vaccine, in December of 2021. 2:22:10 And then my fourth and final COVID vaccine was done on the 10th of, sorry, the 13th of October of 2022. 2:22:23 36 hours after that, my legs started to drag. 2:22:26 I was actually in my hometown of Waterford and I was coming back from Pumpkin Festival, which is the big festival in town. 2:22:33 And I was walking with my granddaughter and my leg started to drag. 2:22:40 after walking for probably three or four kilometres around the town with all the events, walking home, I literally could not lift my leg. 2:22:48 And my stepson basically shouldered me like you'd take a football player off the field all the way back home up the hill. 2:22:56 And that was the beginning of the journey. 2:23:01 You know, I went to my doctor the following Monday, and the first thing she said was, don't take another vaccine. 2:23:10 She showed me on her computer some write-ups about how this vaccine was not what it says it was going to be and that she was going to do everything she could for me. 2:23:26 The following week, I mentioned I was a school bus driver. 2:23:30 Driving home from my morning school bus run, I blacked out going down Highway 24. 2:23:37 Two of my wheels ended up on the dirt. 2:23:39 And I woke up. 2:23:40 Luckily, I could stop the bus and pull it over. 2:23:43 But at that point, my eyes were vibrating and shaking like it was an earthquake. 2:23:48 And my ears were humming. 2:23:50 It was rather unusual. 2:23:51 If I turn my head this way, this air rang. 2:23:53 And if I turn my head the other way, the other ear would ring. 2:23:57 I waited for about five minutes. 2:24:00 And I was only about a kilometre from the bus depot. 2:24:02 So I drove the bus home and went back to my doctor immediately after that. 2:24:08 At that point, we started looking at getting MRIs done and two weeks later, we got an MRI and we found that there was a lesion on my spine about a quarter inch from my brain that was 2.8 centimeters. 2:24:26 If you don't know, that is an incredibly large lesion to stretch across two vertebrae that close to your brain. 2:24:33 My neurologist later said that he's never seen a lesion that size that wasn't a result of an impact. 2:24:40 And he said, I'm lucky to be alive. 2:24:44 You know, at that point, the fatigue had set in. 2:24:49 but I still had enough mitochondrial energy to continue to walk for a bit. 2:24:53 I couldn't run. 2:24:54 I couldn't do anything really that took a lot of physical endurance, but I was still able to move around in May and March and April of that year, 2023. 2:25:11 I got corticosteroids done, two large doses, and I felt like Ben Johnson. 2:25:17 I could get up, I went out, I went picking strawberries in my yard, but it only lasted about a week. 2:25:25 And then the deterioration started setting in. 2:25:28 The fatigue kept coming. 2:25:30 Migraines, so intense that I actually had put ice on the back of my neck to the extent that I was getting frostbite on my neck. 2:25:40 That's what I had to do to get rid of the pain. 2:25:44 The spasm started happening in my legs. 2:25:48 And it was pretty intense. 2:25:51 At that point, I could still get up and at times pull myself up the steps and drag myself with a walker. 2:26:02 But by October, a year in, I was hospitalized for the first time. 2:26:07 And 2:26:09 At that point, it was funny because I went to the hospital and I remember this doctor in the emergency room coming up and he said, you're vaccine injured? 2:26:18 I said, yes. 2:26:19 And he handed me a note that had the artist protocol on it, bromelain, Q10, and all the things that are on the artist. 2:26:29 And he said, here, do this, but don't tell anyone that I gave it to you. 2:26:34 You know, that's kind of the ongoing story. 2:26:37 The doctors wanted to help me. 2:26:39 You know, my GP, six months after I got injured, she closed her practice here in Canada. 2:26:48 And what I know now, she's actually back in Africa practicing medicine there. 2:26:54 So she left Canada as opposed to continuing on treating. 2:26:59 So many of my doctors believed this was a COVID vaccine injury, but they were afraid to write it down. 2:27:06 You know, the ability to write that down 2:27:10 Eventually, I'm sure, is what made VISP deny my claim, one of the reasons. 2:27:17 But the magnitude of the pain kept getting worse. 2:27:21 By year two, July of 2024 at this point, I was having spasms seven hours a night. 2:27:30 Imagine someone driving a nail spike into your sciatic nerve every 30 seconds for seven hours every night. 2:27:39 The pain, you said I'm an unusual person and that's the truth. 2:27:45 When I walked over the Rockies, by the time I got to the Rockies walking over Canada, I had shin splints and plantar fasciitis and I lost three toenails. 2:27:55 And I walked over the Rockies. 2:27:57 You know what? 2:27:58 I carried a smile on my face through that. 2:28:00 I learned that pain is inevitable and suffering is optional. 2:28:07 And the only way I could get through those spasms that I was having was to actually embrace the pain to the point where I could go through it for seven hours. 2:28:17 Every 30 seconds, my leg would shoot with pain from my sciatic nerve, my leg would straighten out, and it felt like lightning bolts were coming out of my toes. 2:28:28 The fatigue, 2:28:31 Just the most simplest thing, having a conversation for 10, 20 minutes was enough to make me fatigued to the point where my body would get stiff. 2:28:41 And you'll notice that, you know, right now, if you see, I can kind of straighten my hand. 2:28:45 By the end of this interview, my hands will be totally clenched. 2:28:48 I won't be able to open them. 2:28:50 My shoulders will be pushed more in. 2:28:53 And the fatigue will come. 2:28:54 I probably need to rest and meditate for an hour after this session. 2:28:58 And fatigue is something I think we all, as vaccine injured people, we suffer. 2:29:04 And the byproduct of it, whether it's neurological, like in my case, cardiovascular, like in other cases, or respiratory, or turbo cancers, they're all the side effects. 2:29:17 But I believe that the base of long COVID is a mitochondrial dysfunction. 2:29:23 And for me, that is how I have approached this disease. 2:29:27 You have to understand that after being in the hospital two years ago, the only option for me was long-term care. 2:29:38 And I was shipped off to a long-term care. 2:29:40 I want to first of all say that all the PSWs who work at St. Joseph Villa, where I currently stay, they are a blessing. 2:29:48 The work they do, I know I couldn't do it. 2:29:53 And I'm very grateful for all that they've given me. 2:29:57 But at the same time saying that, I'm in long-term care. 2:30:01 I have been denied the ability to go to neural rehab twice, two different neural rehabs, because my condition is not acute enough. 2:30:10 It's too long since the original injury for them to consider me. Speaker 3
2:30:13 So you're saying that because it's taken too long, you can't get that care. 2:30:20 But there was a time when it wasn't too long. 2:30:22 Why didn't you get care then? Speaker 27
2:30:23 The thing about it is for neural rehab, they want someone at three to six months from the initial injury. 2:30:31 Well, six months into the injury, I could still walk. 2:30:34 It took me two years to get to the point where I couldn't walk. 2:30:38 The mitochondrial energy in me continues to fade lower and lower to the point where basically a year ago in June, I was laying in my hospital bed and I was unable to move. 2:30:51 I could not open my hands. 2:30:53 I could not move my hands. 2:30:54 And literally, I thought I would be dead within the next three months. Speaker 3
2:30:59 But I want you to talk about, because you've, outside of the medical system, you've done some things that have actually allowed you to improve so that you could be here today. 2:31:10 Can you speak about those? 2:31:11 Because I think there's a lot of people out there that may not understand that there's other things that may be of some assistance. Speaker 27
2:31:20 I totally concur with that statement. 2:31:22 Allopathy has nothing for me. 2:31:26 Where in most of my cases, naturopathy is my key to healing. 2:31:32 I'm very lucky that I have a friend, Tiffany, who came to my bedside last June and brought me something called augmented NAC. 2:31:45 And 2:31:46 NAC, N-acetylcysteine, is known to help release the spike protein from the ACE2 receptors of the body. 2:31:53 There's other things like nicotine, nitric oxide, which I get through breathing techniques. 2:32:02 All of these things help release the spike protein from the ACE2 receptor. 2:32:06 We know this from science. 2:32:07 I've read the reports. 2:32:10 But the problem with that is once the spike protein is released from the ACE2 receptor, it's now in your blood biome and it's floating around and it can reattach to any of the cells in your body. 2:32:21 And that's where, for me, an antiparasitic comes in handy. 2:32:26 Antiparasitics can break down the spike protein into smaller bits that will allow them, that will stop them from reattaching to your cells. 2:32:36 I tried ivermectin, it was not effective for me, but I know it is effective for others. 2:32:40 Fenbendazole, hydrochloroquine, all these are anti-parasitics. 2:32:44 For me, methylene blue was the one that worked for me. 2:32:48 It may not work for you or for anyone else, but the idea of fighting the spike off of your cells and then getting out of your body is the beginning to reestablishing your mitochondrial energy. 2:33:03 You have to understand that 2:33:04 Five days after starting to take NAC and methylene blue, my hands started opening again. 2:33:12 Within a month, I was able to bend over and touch my toes in my wheelchair. 2:33:16 And within two months, I was able to stand up with assistance. 2:33:23 And it's been a good progress. 2:33:27 It's not a cure. 2:33:29 I'm basically fighting back the 2:33:32 the tide and trying to like bail, bail a rowboat with a thimble, you know, and there are good days and there are bad days still. 2:33:42 And it's, it's a struggle, but I'm hopeful that there is a way forward for me. 2:33:56 You know, it's, it's tough when, 2:34:02 you're denied vaccine injury. 2:34:04 Actually, there was an incident just a few days ago. 2:34:07 My wife met someone and mentioned that I was vaccine injured. 2:34:12 And they said, you must be an anti-vaxxer. 2:34:14 And that's not the case. 2:34:16 You know, for me, when I was a very young boy, I had severe allergies and I went to an immunologist and they devised a treatment and gave me allergy shots and cured my allergies from wheat, from flour, from potatoes. 2:34:32 I had all these allergies that were killing me. 2:34:34 I believe in medicine, but sometimes the science doesn't necessarily follow. 2:34:42 The technology doesn't follow the science. 2:34:45 And I think in this case, the COVID vaccine is something that was maybe not designed properly and the rollout didn't work. 2:34:56 And it didn't injure everyone, but it did injure many of us. 2:35:02 And I know there's, what, 1,400 people who applied to speak here at the inquiry and only 50 are being here speaking. 2:35:09 You know what? 2:35:10 If anyone out there who applied can hear anything in my story that makes them relate, I'm very grateful that I can speak and that their truth can be spoken through me. 2:35:22 Thank you. 2:35:22 I'll let the MPs ask their questions. Speaker 23
2:35:26 I don't really have any questions. 2:35:27 I just have a statement. 2:35:30 You're an inspiration, I think, to a lot of people in the room here today and the people listening across Canada. 2:35:36 Given the circumstances you're in, to be this optimistic, 2:35:40 is exceptional, in my opinion. 2:35:43 I think I can speak to everybody here in the room. 2:35:47 When you told your story, for a person to cross Canada, both directions from Toronto, and then to go through what you're going through now and still have a smile on your face the whole time you were telling your story, I think is something that everybody can take away from you today. Speaker 10
2:36:05 So thank you for being here. Speaker 25
2:36:11 I want to start by saying thank you to your positivity, to the spirit that you carry despite the hardships you have gone through after this vaccine injury. 2:36:23 You said that you want to take this out of ability. 2:36:26 The dis-ability. 2:36:28 So do you see any encouragement or support from the government at any level? Speaker 27
2:36:34 Not really, no. 2:36:36 You know, the Vaccine Injury Support Program was ill-devised to start from. 2:36:42 You know, I mean, it's a third party organization running a vaccine program. 2:36:47 It's the only one in the world that's a third party. 2:36:51 And I believe it was run more like an insurance company. 2:36:53 Actually, the rates of denial for the vaccine injury support program were greater than insurance denial rates. Speaker 25
2:37:01 In your opinion, what government needs to do to encourage that kind of spirit when it comes to vaccines? Speaker 27
2:37:06 Well, you know, I'm very seguane in my optimism. 2:37:09 about the Public Health Agency of Canada taking over the program. 2:37:14 And I'm hopeful that they can look at the actual claims that come in and instead of finding ways to dismiss them, find ways to actually approve them. 2:37:26 I mean, my case specifically, 2:37:32 They did not use the WHO causality standards in evaluating my case. 2:37:40 They basically used one study from 2021 that said that because there was no gadolinium in my MRI, that it was unlikely that transverse myelitis was the result of vaccine. 2:37:53 Now, there was a study, and I think it was six out of seven people in that study showed gadolinium expression after a vaccine injury. 2:38:02 But that was after a first dose. 2:38:04 And they put that in the thing that after first dose, well, this is my fourth vaccine. 2:38:09 My immunologist has, in my appeal, has emphatically stated that the priming of one vaccine to another can precipitate vaccine injuries. 2:38:23 And I think that's the case in my case, why so drastically after my fourth vaccine, it came about. 2:38:31 was because my immune system was already primed from my third vaccine taken 10 months before. Speaker 25
2:38:38 Thank you. 2:38:41 You also mentioned you shared your experience with the alternative medicine or alternative options that you explored or you're still exploring. 2:38:49 Do you see that we need to do more on encouraging those options to vaccine injured people? Speaker 27
2:38:56 You know what? 2:38:58 This whole situation is very reminiscent of the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s. 2:39:02 And back then, AIDS was a gay disease. 2:39:06 If you didn't want to admit you had AIDS, people were dissing people with AIDS. 2:39:11 Oh, you must be gay or whatever. 2:39:13 And there was shaming involved in having AIDS. 2:39:16 And as a result, the medical profession didn't want to spend money. 2:39:20 It wasn't until Elizabeth Taylor stepped up to raise money to help AIDS research that we finally stopped getting away from these chemical cocktails that people had to take to survive through AIDS. 2:39:31 And that same thing is happening today. 2:39:33 There is no allopathic solution for mitochondrial myopathy or long COVID. 2:39:39 It's not even being looked at. 2:39:41 Everything that I'm doing is allopathic. 2:39:45 and whether it's through supplements, through red light therapy, through physiotherapy, through meditation and yoga, we need to start looking at ways to actually solve the problem to the mitochondrial myopathy, which underwrites all the conditions that go with long COVID. Speaker 1
2:40:06 Thank you. 2:40:06 Wonderful. 2:40:08 That's all the time we have, Michael. 2:40:09 Thank you very much. 2:40:10 You're very welcome. 2:40:10 For being here. 2:40:10 I 2:40:11 I understand there's a film about you. 2:40:12 I'm gonna have to make sure I check it out, so. Speaker 27
2:40:14 Yeah, tonight at the Tom Brown Theatre at 6.45, they're showing the documentary, Why Can't We Talk About This? 2:40:20 Which is my journey into hell. 2:40:23 And we did an epilogue, which is another 30 minutes called Talk About This, which is all about the solutions for me. 2:40:30 And you know what? 2:40:31 I'm very glad that I can, you know what? 2:40:35 We have a choice in life to suffer or be happy. 2:40:38 And the choice is ours. 2:40:40 And I always try to look on the positive side of things. 2:40:43 And that allows me to get through the tough things. 2:40:46 You know, Winston Churchill once said, if you're going through hell, don't stop. 2:40:50 Keep going. 2:40:52 And that's the message I send out to everyone who's still suffering from COVID. 2:40:55 Keep going. 2:40:56 We'll find the solutions. 2:40:58 Thank you, sir. Speaker 10
2:40:58 Appreciate you being here. 2:40:59 You're very welcome. Speaker 3
2:41:08 Our next witness is 2:41:09 Jasmine Gruel. 2:41:11 Jasmine, we're very pleased to have you here. 2:41:14 And first of all, we'll swear you in. 2:41:17 Jasmine Gruel, do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? 2:41:25 I just wanted to state, because I know from an earlier interview, you're going to describe injuries. 2:41:30 You never had COVID before that. 2:41:32 In fact, you never had COVID at all. 2:41:36 Can you share with us about 2:41:38 your life before vaccination? 2:41:42 Because you're only 35 now, so you'd have been 30 at the time. Speaker 29
2:41:47 I want to start off by saying, my time before this was, it's what I felt was normal. Speaker 22
2:41:51 I was very active. 2:41:54 I felt that I was Speaker 29
2:42:08 almost on top of the world. 2:42:09 I felt that was very fit. 2:42:10 I loved being outside. 2:42:12 I loved the company I was with. 2:42:14 It was always very sociable, I feel like. 2:42:19 And I was always looking forward to what can come next with my given ability. 2:42:29 And it was always to what sport can I play next? 2:42:32 When can I see my family and friends next? 2:42:34 When can I be outside and be active again? 2:42:38 And it almost feels as if it never happened since it happened. 2:42:44 It would have been 31 when I initially had, when I went through this, but it was 31. Speaker 3
2:42:52 I'm going to ask David to pull up some photos that we have. 2:42:57 So you are working as a business development manager for an AI company. 2:43:02 And when you talk about sports, you were on two softball teams and a substitute on the third. 2:43:08 You were playing in a basketball league. 2:43:09 You golfed. 2:43:10 You played soccer. 2:43:11 And also, dance was a big part of your life. 2:43:15 Yes, it was. 2:43:16 We're going to play a video about that. 2:43:17 So you were an extremely sports young man fellow. 2:43:22 And David, can we pull up the first? 2:43:25 So this is a photo of you golfing. 2:43:27 Yes, it is. 2:43:28 And can we go up to the next one? 2:43:32 This is you playing baseball. 2:43:34 That's right. 2:43:35 Can we go to the next one? 2:43:38 This is you involved in dance. 2:43:41 That's right. 2:43:42 We're also going to play two videos. 2:43:46 So we spliced them together. 2:43:47 Okay. 2:43:49 And let's just play them. 2:43:50 And feel free to comment while they're playing or comment afterwards. Speaker 3
2:44:23 And the next one is Pat. 2:44:25 Did we not have the halftime at the Raptors show? 2:44:32 Actually, so this isn't the video I wanted, David. 2:44:34 We had a video of him at a Raptors game. 2:44:36 Did it not take on the last video? 2:44:43 Okay. 2:44:44 Well, that's the same. 2:44:44 We had spent a lot of time getting a video of you. 2:44:48 You were at a Raptors halftime game in a old dance troupe doing this traditional dance, and it was absolutely amazing. 2:44:57 I'll see if we can get that before the end of the inquiry to play. Speaker 29
2:44:59 I can quickly describe it in case you don't get it. 2:45:02 Please do. 2:45:03 Basically, it was a South Asian event at the Toronto Raptors halftime show sponsored by Anabati at the time. 2:45:10 What I did was my initial idea was that I didn't want to get on another gentleman's shoulders. 2:45:16 He's a friend of mine as well. 2:45:18 But at the time, the other person I was supposed to wasn't able to at the time, so he volunteered myself. 2:45:25 Basically, the idea was that he would hold me onto his shoulders, so my legs would be under him, and they would basically spin me around. 2:45:33 So I would go flat, my back would be kind of parallel to the ground, and kind of spin me around for 2:45:39 maybe 10 seconds, and then find myself again, then help myself down, and then we continued on with the dance for the halftime show. 2:45:47 An incredible experience. Speaker 3
2:45:49 Yeah, and again, we might try to pull that up before the end of the thing. 2:45:53 So I just wanted to make the point that you were extremely active, extremely fit, extremely into sports. 2:46:00 You get your first Pfizer shot in May of 2021, and then you get on June 28, 2021, your second. 2:46:06 Can you tell us what happened? Speaker 29
2:46:08 It was the end of June 2021 when I got that second shot. 2:46:14 I was always a believer that nothing, I felt very healthy. 2:46:18 I felt, it just almost felt like I was on top of the world and that nothing could really bring me down. 2:46:24 And I felt comfortable taking it as well. 2:46:26 There wasn't really any sort of specific hesitation in me taking the vaccine. 2:46:32 It was soon after, I would approximate about maybe two months after the second vaccine when I went along my regular schedule of activities and I would play sports continuously. 2:46:45 But I would start to get this extreme cramping, especially in my legs. 2:46:49 It was throughout my entire body, but especially in my legs and my hamstrings where 2:46:53 Usually, maybe after a few days, I could maybe get through it, you know, a little bit of stretching, maybe some heat, some therapy with it as well, some direct massages. 2:47:03 And I felt pretty comfortable after. 2:47:04 Well, for whatever reason, this will just continue. 2:47:08 And it felt as if my legs were starting to get very stiff, especially my hamstrings to start off. 2:47:16 As the weeks went along, as the months kind of went along, I always was just avoiding the fact that something could be wrong, it could be getting worse, but it didn't tend, it didn't absolutely feel a lot worse. 2:47:26 But I was so avoiding to go to the doctor, go try and get it checked out because I felt like there shouldn't be anything wrong. 2:47:34 I was young at the time, I felt like I was in my absolute prime physically as well, whether it be weight or just my overall ability. 2:47:42 So I just tried different types of therapies. 2:47:45 I tried going to different friends for support, some physical therapists, any sort of direct therapy I can do. 2:47:51 But for whatever reason, it just kept getting worse. 2:47:53 And over that time, over those months afterwards, leading into the new year, 2:48:00 I started to get a lot more tingling feeling in my legs. 2:48:02 That's kind of where the initial symptom where I thought that something was absolutely wrong. 2:48:07 And I didn't feel comfortable in the state that I was in, especially because nothing was getting better. 2:48:12 It just kept getting consistently worse, which was uncomfortable. 2:48:17 I started going to the family doctor, getting those general tests done. 2:48:20 It started with just blood tests, those tests. 2:48:23 He couldn't find much from it. 2:48:25 They also have a questionnaire that they wanted me to answer. 2:48:28 And almost immediately after answering the questionnaire, he said, it does seem as something more psychological, something that's in my head that might be causing adverse effects with the rest of my body. 2:48:40 I did not completely agree at the time, but I also wanted to understand that it could be a possibility. 2:48:46 So I took the necessary efforts afterwards to attend to my mental health and whatever might be bothering me mentally as well. 2:48:52 But as the months went along, it just kept getting consistently worse, where 2:48:57 I would lose balance in my legs. 2:48:59 I was always kind of tumbling and fumbling around, which wasn't very common for me. 2:49:03 I always felt very comfortable in my own stride and my own posture. 2:49:07 But the sudden missteps and the sudden bumping into walls and maybe the missing a stair here and there was very odd and confusing. 2:49:18 So when I got initial visit with a neurologist, and that was close to when this video that we have up now was taken, 2:49:29 He also associated with some type of a psychological issue at the time. Speaker 3
2:49:38 So can I slow you down? 2:49:39 Do you mind if I name the neurologist? 2:49:42 We don't have to. 2:49:43 So you see a neurologist. 2:49:44 Yes. 2:49:45 And you're having these really gait problems. 2:49:48 Yes. 2:49:49 Like it's, you're also, you haven't described for us, but I mean, we're talking shooting pain. 2:49:53 You are uncomfortable. Speaker 3
2:49:54 And this is constant. 2:49:56 Yes. 2:49:56 So you're suffering horribly in pain. 2:49:58 Now you're having coordination issues. 2:50:00 We're going to show this video, but a neurologist is basically telling you this is in your head. 2:50:06 Yes. 2:50:07 Okay. 2:50:07 So we'll watch this video. Speaker 22
2:50:11 I know I see that you're, you're, you're really trying to stabilize through your, through those, your quads and those muscles by hyperextending. 2:50:18 Cool. 2:50:19 You want to try walking here? 2:50:21 Yeah. 2:50:21 If you can. 2:50:23 Have you felt, have you been, you have? 2:50:25 Yeah. Speaker 10
2:50:36 Good. 2:50:37 And then whenever you're ready, just go grab a seat right there. Speaker 22
2:50:46 And you're struggling a little bit with where your body weight is, right? 2:50:49 What are you feeling? Speaker 29
2:50:55 What do you... Speaker 22
2:50:57 Instability in your legs. Speaker 3
2:51:01 Yeah, yeah, no, they are. 2:51:08 So this video is taken around the time a neurologist is telling you this is in your head, basically that you're mentally ill. That's right. 2:51:16 And how do you deal with that when you know you're suffering? 2:51:20 And you haven't even talked about this 2:51:22 shooting pain and that to us? Speaker 29
2:51:26 The symptoms that I was going through, I mentioned to the doctor at the time, I tried to describe it as best to my ability to, it was so hard to kind of put into words what exactly was happening with my whole body. 2:51:38 But with that line of questioning, I still tried to believe in the medical professional I was speaking to. 2:51:45 And after that initial visit with the doctor, I went to emergency downtown as well. 2:51:53 They also did a similar type of neurological examinations, and they generally diagnosed me with FND, which was functional neurological disorder. 2:52:02 Also kind of up in the air and questionable at the time. 2:52:05 I also did not know what to take from it. 2:52:08 We were kind of curious. 2:52:10 Going back to the initial doctor that I met, he also wanted to get an EMG done. 2:52:14 It's called an electromyogram. 2:52:16 But there was no rush on it at the time when I first went to see him. 2:52:22 My goal was to get that test done as soon as possible. 2:52:25 I thought that would be a very important test to determine if, in fact, it is in my head or not. 2:52:32 I felt like an objective test that could be done where there is no way that I can deny a fact of whatever the result of the test would be would be almost undeniable at that point. 2:52:45 After a few months went by, I changed family doctors to another one. 2:52:50 He also felt there was something wrong. 2:52:52 Just hearing my symptoms and seeing me briefly. Speaker 3
2:52:55 I'm just going to abbreviate. 2:52:56 You end up getting a call on April 29th. 2:52:59 That's correct. 2:53:00 2022 that somebody had canceled the appointment. 2:53:03 So you rush in and get this appointment that nobody else is in a hurry for. 2:53:08 And you end up getting hospitalized right away. 2:53:10 Immediately. 2:53:11 So they do the test and they hospitalize you. 2:53:13 You're in the hospital for six months. 2:53:14 That's right. 2:53:15 So what happened there? Speaker 29
2:53:18 So right after they did the test, they did my whole lower body, my upper body as well. 2:53:21 They noticed that there was severe demyelination from my entire body. 2:53:24 So there wasn't any kind of reaction from my neurons feedback into their system. 2:53:30 And as soon as we went back down to emergency, we waited in emergency, we wanted to do something called the lumbar puncture. 2:53:36 And what the lumbar puncture does is we kind of bend over on your side, you curl up into a little bit of a ball, and they take out the cerebral spinal fluid from my lumbar. Speaker 3
2:53:46 When they tried to dilute that, and I'm just going to, we're going to skip some of the detail. 2:53:50 Okay. 2:53:51 Because we don't have the time for that. 2:53:55 But basically, you've never walked again. Speaker 29
2:54:00 We always had attempts in the hospital, but nothing come to be known. Speaker 3
2:54:04 And you've lost your nerve function in your lower limbs. 2:54:07 That's right. 2:54:08 You have burning nerve pain throughout your entire body. 2:54:11 And that's even right now as you're speaking. Speaker 29
2:54:13 I still have this tremors as well in my hands as well. Speaker 3
2:54:15 So you're not, this is just something you can't control. 2:54:20 So, and it's also very painful. 2:54:23 All the time. 2:54:26 Your intestines don't work. 2:54:28 You're unable to feed. 2:54:30 So even though I'm talking, I'm hoping the camera, they put it on you. 2:54:35 You have two bags there and you have two pumps for 2:54:39 for 12 hours a day, those pumps have to run. 2:54:42 Can you tell us what they are and why you need to have them for 12 hours a day? Speaker 29
2:54:47 Yeah. 2:54:47 So initially, you'll see the first pump on my right that has a little bag attached to it. 2:54:51 That's going directly into my stomach, which it's called the gastrojudumal tube, which bypasses my stomach. 2:54:58 So it can still kind of 2:55:00 I can still use my stomach and that type of way, my whole gastrointestinal system to get whatever nutrients and proteins from there. 2:55:07 The second bag you see behind there is a black bag. 2:55:10 That's called TPN. 2:55:12 It's called total parenteral nutrition. 2:55:14 That one goes directly into my chest into a larger vein. 2:55:17 So I can get also the additional nutrition like carbohydrates, proteins, fats, and all the vitamins and minerals to go into my system. 2:55:26 These symptoms weren't right away. 2:55:28 It happened about a year and a half after I got, a year after I got discharged from the hospital after the six-month stint. 2:55:36 And with the constant treatments that I was going through, this was an apparent side effect, an unfortunate side effect of that fact. 2:55:43 So right now, I cannot, if I was to eat something orally or try to take something orally, I would immediately come up and it would stain my stomach. 2:55:50 As much as I would like to have some water right now, because it is quite parched, I would not be able to. 2:55:56 Because if I was to try to drink the water, it would immediately come back up and I would have to vomit it out. Speaker 3
2:56:02 Right. 2:56:03 So you rely, this is your water, this is your food, is two tubes, one 2:56:08 dripping into your stomach and one dripping into a vein. 2:56:11 That's correct. 2:56:11 That's how you're fed. Speaker 3
2:56:13 And these pumps have to run for 12 hours a day. Speaker 29
2:56:16 They run constantly 12 hours a day. 2:56:17 And even without me having to drink or eat, normally I'm still vomiting every few hours, just whatever, whatever's in my stomach. 2:56:24 It could be bile, it could be whatever it is. Speaker 10
2:56:27 Um, what's been the most difficult part of this? Speaker 29
2:56:34 All it's been quite bewildering overall. 2:56:37 Um, 2:56:38 The confusion to navigate every day and how to navigate every day. 2:56:44 Because I know that every night after I disconnect everything I can get, whatever rest I can get, I have to start both of these machines immediately in the morning or else I'm not going to get my necessary caloric intake for that day. 2:56:55 And that's going to cause even more side effects that I don't want to bother trying to feel. 2:57:02 So... 2:57:04 The difficulty is just the navigation of how I'm going to kind of attack each day. 2:57:09 I have the great support of my family, my close friends, my partner as well, and I am extremely appreciative for that. 2:57:15 But trying to navigate it in my own head and seeing where I could have been or what could have been potentially and what it has been, even just seeing the photos and the videos now has been confounding. 2:57:29 But it is what my – it's where we have – 2:57:35 My place is here where I'm supposed to be for whatever reason. 2:57:38 And the opportunities here to speak about is what I feel like I had to do. 2:57:44 And it's just a matter of where can we go next? 2:57:49 And I'm going to do whatever I can to take that next step. Speaker 10
2:57:53 Thank you. Speaker 1
2:57:57 And I want to thank you for being here. 2:58:00 Thank you. 2:58:00 Thank you very much. 2:58:01 I'm going to turn it over to my colleague, Dean Hall. Speaker 23
2:58:08 Thanks for being here. 2:58:11 What are the doctors? 2:58:12 Have they given you any indication on how the vaccine has caused this? 2:58:17 Are they getting any support from the medical field at all supporting the vaccine injuries? Speaker 29
2:58:25 I also applied for the Vaccine Injury Support Program when it was still the support program. 2:58:29 I got denied initially when I first applied for it. 2:58:33 The doctors could not confirm or deny that it was. 2:58:37 But given the timeline of everything, they always just said it was a possibility. 2:58:43 It was a strong possibility that it could have been from it, given how it was before and how the effects have happened after. Speaker 23
2:58:50 Were you denied within the program? Speaker 29
2:58:52 Of the vaccine? 2:58:53 Yes, I was. 2:58:54 Yes, I was. 2:58:54 And have you appealed? 2:58:56 I'm in the process of appealing right now. 2:58:59 I did appeal initially, but when they transferred over to the impact assistance program, there was a little bit of a delay. 2:59:05 So the appeal has been a little bit delayed at the time, so I'm reappealing at this time, just waiting, still waiting for a response. Speaker 23
2:59:10 What was the reason for denial? Speaker 29
2:59:12 They said that the board at the time felt like there was something in between from the second vaccine to their suspected onset of symptoms that would have caused these neurological issues and the severity of the issues that I currently have. Speaker 23
2:59:28 Going through the process of the program, what was your experience with the 2:59:34 going through the process? Speaker 29
2:59:36 A lot of waiting, a lot of attempting to follow up. 2:59:39 When I got the initial letter to confirm that I was denied, and even just reading it just felt very, it was almost unbelievable at the time. 2:59:52 And to hear that the reasoning for it as well, and that there was no effort or additional effort 3:00:02 follow-up required to prove that also further confused me as well and made it even more type of kind of unfortunate so it was it just it also didn't feel like it was a thorough process to look through the medical documents that i got through which went through only 80 to 100 pages of my entire hospital visit which included multiple treatments uh which felt like it was also a result of everything but it just felt like the proof and validity was not there Speaker 23
3:00:33 Well, thanks for being here to tell your story. 3:00:35 And, again, we apologize for the problem that you have to go through with the program and the difficulties with it. 3:00:42 And hopefully we hear enough about it that we can get the problems fixed and help people like yourself. Speaker 1
3:00:52 I want to thank you once again for being here. 3:00:54 I think that it really explains. 3:00:58 If I caught that correctly, you said you were filling out 80 to 100 pages? 3:01:01 That's right. 3:01:02 or just to fill out an application? Speaker 29
3:01:06 The amount of documents and supplemental documentation that I provided to the support program was 8,200 pages, because it includes every doctor that I had during my inpatient at the hospital for those six months. Speaker 1
3:01:19 And what type of time... 3:01:21 I can't even imagine what type of time frame that would involve trying to gather that kind of information. Speaker 29
3:01:26 Yeah, I... 3:01:27 Again, my sisters were very supportive, very helpful. 3:01:29 My partner was very helpful at the time as well, but to kind of stay on top of it. 3:01:33 But ensuring that when I got discharged that the entire relevant historical information that I had from day one when I was admitted was in those notes, including all the multiple treatments that we tried and attempted and just didn't see the results from. 3:01:50 But everything that I could have included was included in all of those pages. Speaker 1
3:01:55 Well, thank you. 3:01:55 As I said, once again, it 3:01:57 You know, Mike, MP Dawson said, well, we, you know, we really apologize for anything that's been through, you've been through. 3:02:07 And, you know, it's just, as we hear these stories, I think it's important that as more people hear what's going on, that we can continue to push to see changes being made in whatever programs are there or the absolute recognition of individuals. 3:02:22 So thanks. 3:02:22 Thank you for being here. 3:02:24 Thank you for the opportunity. 3:02:24 Thank you. Speaker 3
3:02:26 And Jasmine, I also understand that it was difficult for you to be here. 3:02:31 It's one thing when you're in a wheelchair, but because you have those pumps and that pool, you took the train because those pumps need to be plugged in. Speaker 3
3:02:41 The batteries don't last long. 3:02:42 In fact, that was a concern for you being here today is would the pumps, would the batteries fail? 3:02:47 I think we arranged to have an extension cord for that eventuality. 3:02:52 So you actually, it was, it was, 3:02:55 not clear that you would be able to get here and get transported here. 3:02:58 And we really appreciate you coming. 3:03:01 We really appreciate you sharing your story. 3:03:04 I pray that you'll help change the world and allow us to have this conversation and look at things. 3:03:10 I'll do my best. 3:03:11 Yeah. 3:03:11 So thank you. 3:03:12 Thank you very much. 3:03:13 Thank you all. 3:03:34 So our next witness is Kelly Shorkey. 3:03:38 Kelly, do you want to put that Bible in your right hand? 3:03:41 Kelly Shorkey, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? Speaker 3
3:03:50 Now, you're a very interesting case, and I'm going to lead here. 3:03:54 And you're an interesting case, and I hope that everyone is listening here. 3:04:00 So the following have confirmed that you're vaccine injured. 3:04:04 So the medical health officer of British Columbia has confirmed your vaccine injured. 3:04:08 Canada Life agrees that you're vaccine injured in a disability claim. 3:04:15 The Canadian Pension Plan agrees that you're vaccine injured. 3:04:19 WorkSafe BC, which is what British Columbia calls their workers' compensation system, believes you're vaccine injured. 3:04:26 So let me ask you, does the Vaccine Injury Support Program agree that you're vaccine injured? Speaker 21
3:04:32 No, they do not. Speaker 3
3:04:34 Okay. 3:04:34 So at least they're not, they can't be called followers. 3:04:39 So by way, just to introduce you, you were 54 years of age. 3:04:45 Yes. 3:04:47 You were a home and community nurse. 3:04:50 You did wound care and palliative care for 15 years. 3:04:55 And at the time of your vaccination, you were in effect working more than full-time. 3:05:00 You paddleboard, you hiked, you sailed, you did fitness classes, you swam, you socialized, you traveled, just incredible amount of physical activity. 3:05:10 Your health was great. 3:05:11 You were on no medications, which is very telling. 3:05:15 Can you share with us your journey with the vaccines? Speaker 21
3:05:20 Okay. 3:05:21 So I was actually in Australia when Trudeau said Canadians come home March 2020. 3:05:30 And, you know, back to work, I came because I didn't want to get stuck somewhere else. 3:05:36 And so the vaccines were due. 3:05:38 And, you know, with being a community nurse, we were getting our shots quite quickly. 3:05:44 So I had my first vaccine. 3:05:47 And then within six weeks, I had the second dose, both Pfizer's. 3:05:52 And right within 48 hours of having the second shot, I noticed that there was some itching at the base of my neck that I had never felt before. 3:06:02 And I just was monitoring that. 3:06:05 And then on the right side, 3:06:07 I just kept watching it. 3:06:08 And I had actually gone to the doctor to say, you know, that something's wrong here. 3:06:13 And I developed three different lesions or plaques on my back that looked like rays. 3:06:19 They all had different characteristics. 3:06:22 And then I just became systemically itchy all over my body that I don't have any, never had allergies before. 3:06:31 And walked around with an itch stick for a year. 3:06:34 And then these three lesions stayed. 3:06:36 They were always there, again, like with the different characteristics. 3:06:40 And I was having the doctor, we were waiting for the allergist. Speaker 3
3:06:45 I suspected that it... Can I just slow you down? 3:06:48 Because, you know, when you used to say, well, you were itchy for a year, and I don't think people are really appreciating what you're talking about. 3:06:55 You are talking about constantly, 24 hours a day, feeling itchy. 3:07:01 I mean, to the point where if you were at home, 3:07:04 you couldn't wear clothes because that would be uncomfortable. 3:07:07 It literally was debilitating. 3:07:09 So it's just the word itchy can sound minimal, but what you were experiencing was something very different. 3:07:16 It was. 3:07:17 Yeah. 3:07:17 Okay. Speaker 21
3:07:18 And, and we were looking into that and I was, you know, the doctor was, had put me on with an allergist, but it was a one year wait list and a dermatologist, a year wait list. 3:07:28 But we did do a biopsy on one of the lesions on my back. 3:07:32 Um, 3:07:33 And so, you know, then, you know, but of course we were waiting and I'm just, I'm still bad. 3:07:38 I'm still at work. 3:07:38 I'm having to take time off because of the condition that I had. 3:07:43 And then the booster was coming along and I had had Pfizer and Pfizer and Moderna was being pushed to for the booster because I think it was the Delta virus that was out. 3:07:54 And that was the big thing. 3:07:54 Moderna was going to be the better of the two vaccines. 3:07:58 But having spoken with a doctor and I say a doctor, it was a clinic doctor because I've been on a 15 year wait list to get a GP in B.C. 3:08:06 Then. 3:08:08 Sorry, the. 3:08:10 time to get the booster. 3:08:12 And I said, you know, they were like, well, don't you want the Moderna? 3:08:16 And I said, no, we need to stick with the Pfizer vaccine because it's the devil, you know, because we knew I was already having a reaction to it. 3:08:24 And then, so that would have been in November. 3:08:28 And I ended up 3:08:33 off work for a few weeks. 3:08:34 See, I didn't, I hadn't made the connection yet. 3:08:36 And I was like, there's something wrong, something wrong with my right leg. 3:08:40 And I thought because I was so active, I'd done something. 3:08:42 Maybe I slipped. 3:08:43 I didn't pay attention to a hiking trip that I'd done or, or anything like that. 3:08:48 And then I was, you know, talk to the doctor. 3:08:51 He's like, yeah, just stay home until you feel better. 3:08:53 I went back to work in January and I'd been back at work for about two weeks. 3:08:59 And, um, 3:09:01 COVID was flying around the office, different nurses, we were all dropping. 3:09:05 So I ended up at the end of the day, something was wrong with the right side of my throat. 3:09:11 And I thought, well, this is different. 3:09:12 And I'm like, I wonder if I have COVID because it was such an unusual sore throat. 3:09:17 I went to my manager and I said, I'm going to, I need to take the day off. 3:09:21 I'm not well. 3:09:22 And I need to go get COVID tested. 3:09:23 And I went and got tested for COVID and it was negative, but I kept saying, there's something wrong here. 3:09:28 I don't, I'm not going back to work yet. 3:09:29 Cause I'm off. 3:09:31 And, um, I was at home and I remember going to bed after the news and went, go brush my teeth. 3:09:37 And I went to go spit and I'm like, oh, and I noticed, and I look up and my whole face had collapsed. 3:09:43 And I thought, oh, you know, is this a stroke? 3:09:45 And I did the stroke test and I'm like, okay, this is not a stroke. 3:09:48 I realized, and I was, I drove myself to the hospital and they took me in fairly quickly and they, um, 3:09:55 you know, they were like, it's Bell's palsy that you have. 3:09:59 So I was in and out of emergency amazingly in 45 minutes, but only with the Valtrex, not with the prednisone. 3:10:05 And I was lucky enough, you know, I had time on my phone. 3:10:08 I'm like, oh, I should have had that prednisone and you're supposed to get it within 72 hours. 3:10:12 So I ended up getting into the urgent care clinic and I got the prednisone to go along with the Valtrex as a treatment within the 72 hours. 3:10:20 Um, 3:10:23 And then with the Bell's palsy, you know, they're like, come back in two weeks, it'll resolve. 3:10:26 And I'm like, so I went back and they're like, oh, it's not resolved. 3:10:30 And I'm like, yeah, you figure. Speaker 3
3:10:32 Can you describe what is Bell's palsy? Speaker 21
3:10:34 So Bell's palsy is, so you have 12 cranial nerves in your head. 3:10:39 And it's cranial nerve seven. 3:10:41 And basically what happens with Bell's palsy, it's like you pull the plug and your whole face just stops working on whichever side the cranial nerve gets affected is the best way that I was explained to it. 3:10:55 So I was a little bit different where my face went tight. 3:10:58 Other people, they'll lose their droop, the face. 3:11:02 You drool. 3:11:03 My eye was like rolling to the back of my head. 3:11:05 I couldn't close my eyelid. 3:11:08 And I couldn't lift my face. 3:11:12 My mouth was closed, difficult to eating. 3:11:14 But that's pretty much it. 3:11:15 You have the facial paralysis and it also goes into your platysma. Speaker 3
3:11:20 We're just going to pull up some photos. 3:11:24 So this is a photo of you before. Speaker 21
3:11:28 Yeah, that's interesting. 3:11:29 I never take selfies. 3:11:30 And I thought I'm just going to take a selfie just a week before the injury happened. Speaker 3
3:11:35 Okay. 3:11:36 And so this is you a week before the injury. 3:11:39 Can we go to the next photo? 3:11:41 So describe what's happening here. Speaker 21
3:11:43 Well, that's in my physio because I had a facial physiotherapist come to my house and she was taking pictures and she's, you know, this is what was happening. 3:11:50 So I was just trying to close my eye and that's what was happened. 3:11:55 Just try to relax. Speaker 3
3:11:57 So you were physically unable to close your eye as part of the facial paralysis. 3:12:04 And can we go to the next photo? Speaker 18
3:12:06 Yeah, that's just lifting, trying to smile. Speaker 3
3:12:12 Right, so half of your face works and the other half doesn't. Speaker 3
3:12:18 Okay, so you went from being symmetrical using all of your face to basically now half of your face is different. Speaker 3
3:12:26 Now you also then get this synkinesis. Speaker 21
3:12:30 Mm-hmm. 3:12:30 Yeah. 3:12:31 So the synkinesis is what happens is when the nerves grow back, they grow back a millimeter over time, little piece, and then just end up growing back wrong. 3:12:40 So when, you know, if I chew food, my eye will close and, you know, it just makes my face behave differently than it did before because the nerve has gone off. Speaker 3
3:12:54 Okay. 3:12:54 And you also have some nerve damage. 3:12:56 Can you share with us about that? Speaker 21
3:12:58 Yeah. 3:12:59 And so, 3:13:00 With my condition, I'm uniquely, everything only happened on the right side of my body. 3:13:05 This is nothing to do with the left. 3:13:08 So I have limb weakness on the right side. 3:13:12 So, you know, going upstairs, all of a sudden my leg just doesn't want to work anymore. 3:13:17 I noticed going swimming. 3:13:19 I, my arm will just stop working. 3:13:22 There's no rhyme or reason for it. 3:13:24 It just will do that. 3:13:25 I can't, you know, and then over time, 3:13:28 I've actually gotten significantly worse. 3:13:31 My foot's collapsed. 3:13:34 Where it used to become weak, I am permanently weaker on the right-hand side. 3:13:39 Yeah. Speaker 3
3:13:43 You also have trigeminal neuralgia, which I understand is one of the most painful conditions that we know about. Speaker 21
3:13:50 Yes, and so I have polycranial nerve damage. 3:13:54 So trigeminal is nerve 5, which is also included. 3:13:58 I have 5, 7, 9, and 10, and probably more. 3:14:02 We're not quite sure, but 5 can be extremely, extremely painful. 3:14:07 At the moment, it ebbs and flows, but it can affect the jaw, the teeth, 3:14:14 And pain is very bad pain. Speaker 3
3:14:18 How are you doing today? Speaker 21
3:14:19 Today, with the trigeminal, so the pain is okay. 3:14:24 It's just that it's a chronic, all the time condition that I have to deal with. 3:14:30 And as far as today goes, I never have a good day. 3:14:36 I'm all, you know, like, it's hard to explain pain. 3:14:42 I've never been the same person. 3:14:44 I think the best way I can describe it is, you know, I am anywhere from 75% to 30% of the person I used to be, percentage-wise. 3:14:55 There's days where I have flares, so things come and go. 3:14:58 I might get a little bit better, and then I get excited and I think, oh, there's a possibility if this trajectory keeps going, I will have an opportunity to return to work, to return to my life. 3:15:08 And then... 3:15:10 I get these flares and I never recover to the point where I was before. 3:15:16 And these occur quite regularly, like three times a year where I think I'm going to possibly get better. 3:15:24 And then I don't. Speaker 3
3:15:25 Right. 3:15:26 But you're in pain right now. Speaker 21
3:15:29 I am not in pain right now. Speaker 21
3:15:32 Yeah. 3:15:33 Yeah. Speaker 3
3:15:35 Now, number 10. 3:15:38 affects heart rate, bowels, urinary function. 3:15:42 And so you live on the edge of incontinence. Speaker 21
3:15:47 Yeah, and with my bowels too, they don't communicate with me anymore. 3:15:52 I have to, you know, and with my nursing background, I know exactly what I need to do to try to make sure things are functioning properly. 3:16:00 But yeah, it's definitely affected. Speaker 3
3:16:03 And then you talked about your right arm. 3:16:06 Can you tell us about your vision? Speaker 21
3:16:08 Yeah. 3:16:09 So my vision, I noticed it was affected from the beginning. 3:16:13 I noticed right away, I was at the gym, I actually had gone to go swimming. 3:16:16 And I noticed that, hey, I misread a number. 3:16:20 And I like this. 3:16:21 And it wasn't a dyslexia kind of number. 3:16:24 It was a real thing. 3:16:25 My brain picked up something and believed what I saw. 3:16:29 And then it's like, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, this is not this is incorrect. 3:16:33 And I found the different ways. 3:16:34 So 3:16:35 With my vision, we have finally figured out after four years that it's called convergence insufficiency. 3:16:41 My eyes do not work together anymore. 3:16:44 And for whatever's happened inside my head, I don't read things properly. 3:16:51 I misunderstand things. 3:16:53 I would be very harmful. 3:16:55 I will never choose to administer medication again because I might think that this is 10 milligrams when it should be just one milligram. Speaker 3
3:17:05 When you and I were interviewing, I don't even remember when that was, but probably a couple of weeks ago now. 3:17:12 And you said to me that testifying here is going to wipe you out. 3:17:16 Can you share with us about that and what's going on there? Speaker 21
3:17:21 So I basically, since, since my injury, I guess the best way I can put it is I can do one thing a day. 3:17:30 I have to choose though. 3:17:31 Like, it's like, do I want to shower or do I want to, 3:17:34 get to this appointment? 3:17:37 Do I want to go grocery shopping or do I want to make it out to see a friend? 3:17:43 I have to pick and choose what those things are. 3:17:48 The more I do, I find then I just need to rest. 3:17:52 There's just not a possibility. 3:17:55 I'm non-functioning. 3:17:58 I need to stay home. 3:17:58 I need to stay in a controlled, safe environment. Speaker 3
3:18:02 So you actually have to plan 3:18:04 what you do and what you don't do, including showering. Speaker 21
3:18:07 Yeah. 3:18:09 I had one doctor ask, what's your burden of the day? 3:18:12 What's your everyday? 3:18:13 And every day I wake up and I don't know what to expect. Speaker 3
3:18:19 So I'd like to say yours is an interesting case because it seems that out of everyone I've interviewed, more people agree this is, like you literally gave me a letter from the medical health officer of British Columbia saying this is vaccine injury. Speaker 21
3:18:34 That's correct. Speaker 3
3:18:34 WorkSafe BC says this is a vaccine injury. 3:18:37 CCP, Canadian Pension Plan, says this is a vaccine injury. 3:18:41 Sun Life, this says vaccine injury. 3:18:45 What has been your experience with medical care? Speaker 21
3:18:48 Okay. 3:18:49 Well, you know, this is hard because these are my coworkers. 3:18:54 I guess right off the bat, nobody did say it's not a vaccine injury. 3:19:01 None of the doctors did that. 3:19:03 I just find it now into the years. 3:19:06 I have doctors that say, even though it's on record, you think you have a vaccine injury. 3:19:12 Or I've read reports where the doctor states she thinks she's got cranial nerve damage when the language is there. 3:19:21 I don't need to prove this. 3:19:22 I don't need doctors to understand. 3:19:26 If they had the time to come to my appointment prepared, 3:19:31 they would be able to see that all of this stuff is, is there. 3:19:35 So how have I been treated? 3:19:37 Well, 55 specialists, clinicians later, I'm still here being assessed, proving, you know, asking to prove how unwell really am I. I have had a few good doctors that have, you know, I had one cause I don't have a GP and, 3:19:58 So urgent care clinician who's like, who's following you? 3:20:01 And I'm like, well, nobody. 3:20:02 And he says, well, I'm I'm only work weekends. 3:20:04 But, you know, and I'm like, I'll take it. 3:20:07 And just once a month I would go in just to check in. 3:20:11 And he, you know, because there was nothing really we could do. 3:20:14 Just waiting to see the specialists. 3:20:17 And that was the biggest disappointment was going in and finally seeing the neurologists and the specialists were because I would ask him, like, please don't discharge me. 3:20:25 There's something wrong. 3:20:26 And they're like, well, we don't know enough about this. 3:20:29 So I'm going to discharge you. 3:20:31 And I would even ask, like, can I get another referral? 3:20:34 And they said, well, we don't know what we would refer them to. 3:20:36 And I said, well, this is a vaccine injury. 3:20:38 Are you not interested in learning and even just keeping me on so that we can, you know, explore this in the future to learn what it is that's been happening to us? 3:20:51 And they're like, no, that's not what we do here. 3:20:54 And then I had a follow up. 3:20:57 Second opinion with another neurologist. 3:21:00 And, you know, we came down with the FND. 3:21:03 That was, you know, they concurred. Speaker 3
3:21:05 Functional neurological disorder, which means we don't know. Speaker 21
3:21:09 Exactly. 3:21:10 Exactly. 3:21:10 And it's also considered the woman's disease. 3:21:12 But that's another thing, too, where they, you know, psychological stuff that's. 3:21:18 That so when I asked the second neurologist, could you please educate me? 3:21:24 on what this, what is going on with me through the vaccine. 3:21:27 This is your job. 3:21:28 You're the neurologist. 3:21:30 Please find out what you know, because they have access to information I do not have access to. 3:21:35 And I think it's their job. 3:21:36 You're going to give me a diagnosis. 3:21:38 It's your job to please explain to me what is going on with me. 3:21:42 And so I said with the COVID vaccine injury, and this is the, the neurologist goes, no, no, no, I will not get into the politics of this. 3:21:52 And I just, 3:21:55 I just go, I don't know what to do. 3:21:57 I don't know where to go. Speaker 3
3:21:58 I think you just spoke volumes. 3:22:01 You had said to me in an earlier interview that you cry every time you have to go to a specialist. 3:22:06 Yeah. 3:22:07 Can you share about that? Speaker 21
3:22:08 Yeah. 3:22:09 Well, I cry because I know I would love to go in with a quick brochure, but I always get reassured. 3:22:17 No, no, they'll come prepared and understanding my case. 3:22:21 And every time I walk in and I'm like, oh, no. 3:22:24 They don't know what they're talking about because they don't have the experience. 3:22:30 I have more experience with vaccine injury than a doctor that I see. 3:22:35 And I'm expecting them to make a decision on something that they know nothing about. 3:22:42 So I would love to find a doctor who is interested in just wanting to be interested in learning as to what's happened to us. Speaker 23
3:23:02 I don't really have any questions. 3:23:03 You really touched on all the topics with your testimony. 3:23:10 What you did say with educating you when you go to your appointments, I think that's something you touched on that. 3:23:18 That touches, I think, a lot of the testimonies that 3:23:23 The doctors aren't educating the patients on what they should be educating them on and how the process works to move forward to find a diagnosis to get you through the process. 3:23:35 So I don't have any questions, but thanks for being here. 3:23:38 And a lot of your testimony hit on a lot of the topics that I don't have any questions. 3:23:42 Maybe my colleague does. 3:23:43 I don't know. 3:23:45 Thank you for being here. Speaker 25
3:23:46 Thank you. 3:23:47 Thanks for being here and sharing your story. 3:23:49 I don't have any questions, but you know what? 3:23:52 After listening to all the witnesses that I have listened to this morning, when these victims are being, say, discouraged or pushed away by these professionals, psychologists, neurologists, and all those, it's just... 3:24:10 In my opinion, it's not only minimizing the current situation or the victims of these vaccine injuries. 3:24:18 It's also setting a trend that we don't want to be prepared for future situations so that they won't happen in the next pandemic or any, if we lead to that situation in future, God forbid. 3:24:32 So I feel that these kind of inquiries are very important to change that mindset, and whether they are professional bodies, whether they are the scientists or the psychologists, the specialists, those are assigned. 3:24:49 The mindset needs to be changed so that not only these injuries be minimized, but they should be avoided altogether. 3:24:56 Thank you for being here. 3:24:57 Okay. Speaker 1
3:24:57 Bye-bye. 3:24:58 And Kelly, do you mind if I ask what type of support you have at home? Speaker 21
3:25:03 Oh, yeah. 3:25:04 No, I am completely independent. 3:25:07 And yeah, I had a brother who was my family. 3:25:14 And then unfortunately, he had long COVID, but we don't know that 100% could have been a vaccine injury. 3:25:21 And then he died tragically just a year and a half ago. 3:25:25 And so I have, you know, 3:25:28 my made up family, but my immediate family, that's. Speaker 1
3:25:31 And so your friends are very supportive. 3:25:33 Yes. Speaker 1
3:25:34 That's excellent. 3:25:35 Yeah. Speaker 21
3:25:35 And where I live in the apartment building and, you know. 3:25:37 Yeah. Speaker 1
3:25:40 Well, listen, thank you once again for sharing your, your story and, and once again, helping us understand a little bit more of the challenges that people are going through. Speaker 21
3:25:47 So thank you. Speaker 8
3:25:48 You're very welcome. 3:25:49 Thank you guys. Speaker 3
3:26:00 Sorry, our next witness is Thor Hart. 3:26:03 Thor, will you take the, can somebody hand him the Bible? 3:26:09 Thor, will you take the Bible in your right hand? 3:26:13 Yes, can you hear me? 3:26:14 Yes, I can hear you. 3:26:16 So Thor Hart, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 3:26:21 Yes, I do. 3:26:25 I interviewed you before and you made it clear to me that you didn't have COVID. 3:26:29 So when you describe getting injured, I think that's important for people to know. 3:26:34 I just want to introduce you. 3:26:38 So you're 55 years old. 3:26:40 Yes. 3:26:41 And you have four children. 3:26:43 You were a group leader at General Motors. 3:26:45 Yes. 3:26:46 And prior to being vaccinated. 3:26:50 You were a physically active bodybuilder. 3:26:53 You shared you actually went to the gym five days a week. 3:26:56 Yes. 3:26:56 Like you were committed. 3:26:59 You had done Kung Fu since you were 14 and you were still doing it weekly. 3:27:04 So you're very senior in that discipline. 3:27:07 You had no prior health issues. 3:27:10 And in fact, you were training to be in a strongman competition. 3:27:13 Yes. 3:27:14 So I just share that so that everyone understands that you were an incredibly fit and active 3:27:21 man before the vaccination? Speaker 30
3:27:23 Yes, actually, just a couple of weeks before I was vaccinated, I was actually just starting to train both of my sons in the gym. 3:27:31 And it was actually kind of funny because the gym I was in, I wasn't sure if they had heavy enough weights for me. 3:27:37 Um, I was lifting 150 pound dumbbells, doing reps of 10 to 12 with them for incline bench press, like four or five plates aside for squatting. 3:27:46 Um, yeah, my sons were impressed with people and it was just, I was trying to get my sons and this is the experience that I wanted to pass on to, to my family. 3:27:55 And in fact, I have two daughters and they were excited at the time and they were thinking, okay, when can dad come train us in the gym as well? 3:28:03 And I was also training them in martial arts at home. 3:28:08 and then the vaccine happened. 3:28:10 And what happened there was I was hesitant to take it only because I was watching what was going on, and everything just seemed to be so politicized, and you couldn't ask any questions about it. 3:28:26 So me being health conscious, I want to know whatever I'm putting in my body, whether it be nutrition, whatever, especially if I'm going to inject something, I just want to ask questions about it. 3:28:37 The fact that everything was sort of, no, no, no, no, you can't talk about this. 3:28:41 You can't ask questions about this. 3:28:42 That actually made me hesitant to want to take it. 3:28:47 Up until General Motors sent me a letter saying, get vaccinated or you will be terminated. 3:28:54 At that point there, I had until December 12, 2021, that was the date they gave me to be vaccinated by. 3:29:03 So in November, I went for my first Pfizer vaccine and I had the usual reaction. 3:29:12 It was an immediate reaction of a couple of days where I had body aches that I wasn't accustomed to, but they did go away. 3:29:20 So I sort of counted myself lucky and thought, okay, well, maybe there was nothing to fear here. 3:29:25 I have no issues. 3:29:27 Came up time to, I think it was November 25th. 3:29:30 I was going for my second dose of Pfizer. 3:29:33 And I received that and immediately it was the same, but it was a lot stronger, a lot stronger. 3:29:41 And so I sort of mentally wrote that off as, well, it's the second dose compounded. 3:29:47 Maybe that's it. 3:29:48 I'll just, this is just the, it'll be like the first time it'll go away, but it didn't. 3:29:53 It kept building and building. 3:29:55 And it was on the third day of slowly building. 3:29:59 I went to get up out of bed and I couldn't stand. 3:30:04 My whole body, I just, it ached. 3:30:07 It was like glass in all of my joints. 3:30:12 I've never felt that kind of pain in my life. 3:30:16 I couldn't stand. 3:30:17 And I remember I was talking to my wife going, something's not right. 3:30:22 I don't know what's going on here. 3:30:24 I need to go to the hospital because again, 3:30:27 It was just a couple, like earlier, I'm training my sons, I'm going to the gym, I'm on the treadmill doing, and now I can't stand. Speaker 3
3:30:35 Within days. 3:30:36 Within, it was on the third day. 3:30:39 And my understanding is this day where you wake up and it's too painful to walk. 3:30:44 You literally had to crawl to the bathroom. Speaker 30
3:30:46 I had to crawl to the bathroom. 3:30:48 And during my time afterwards, there were some times where the timing was not made. 3:30:57 which was not an experience I'd like to have. 3:31:00 And to go from fully active to having to crawl to the bathroom, that takes a toll. 3:31:10 I got into the hospital. 3:31:12 I'm sitting in the emergency. 3:31:14 And I remember the doctor, I'm explaining what's going on. 3:31:18 I'm saying, I just had the vaccine. 3:31:19 And they wrote down adverse drug reaction. 3:31:21 They knew what it was. 3:31:24 And 3:31:24 They're telling me, well, don't worry, it'll pass within a week. 3:31:29 And they told me to take some arthritis medications. 3:31:32 And I remember I looked at the emergency doctor and said, but I don't have arthritis. 3:31:38 And this is the part that shocked me because I'm confused. 3:31:42 I'm waking up in a new body. 3:31:45 And I remember they looked at me and kind of chuckled and said, you do now. 3:31:51 And that shocked me. 3:31:54 So I remember I went over that with my wife and I was like, what do they mean I do now? 3:32:03 This was not, I was always told safe and effective. 3:32:06 Everything is good. 3:32:08 Now I have arthritis. Speaker 3
3:32:09 This was not communicated to me. 3:32:12 And this is within four days. 3:32:13 Within the third day. 3:32:15 So within three days of the shot, you went from, you know, lifting 180 pound dumbbells in the, you know, that's one hand. 3:32:25 in the gym to have to crawl to the bathroom. Speaker 30
3:32:27 All of a sudden, I can't walk. Speaker 3
3:32:30 And you're being told that you now have arthritis. 3:32:33 So within three days, you are now arthritic. Speaker 30
3:32:36 Yes. 3:32:37 Sorry for interrupting. 3:32:39 Yeah, no, no. 3:32:40 And that was the hardest part to deal with. 3:32:41 So I took a couple days off work. 3:32:45 And again, I started just working on over-the-counter pain medication. 3:32:49 I was taking, I think it was Aleve and other things just to try and deal with the pain. 3:32:54 and it was the week afterwards, I went back to work on Wednesday, and I was trying everything from different insoles, because I could barely walk, and I was shuffling, and because I'm a group leader, I self-accommodated at my desk a lot, trying to, and I remember on the Friday, I had a co-worker helping me out of the building, and I was shuffling, and I just thought, I don't know what's going on, I'll try a foot bath, I'm going to have to work with my wife and 3:33:24 It was that night, everything swelled up on my right leg, my left leg, and it woke me up in the middle of the night with such pain. 3:33:35 Again, I didn't understand what was going on with my body. 3:33:40 I had to go to the hospital, and luckily for me there, they gave me a shot of Toradol, and the emergency doctor there was actually one of the 3:33:53 The good ones. 3:33:55 He explained to me, he said, it's right there in your blood test. 3:33:58 It's breaking down your muscles. 3:34:00 You need to have your doctor sent to the adverse, I think the vaccine injury clinic or something, which was down in Hamilton at the time. Speaker 3
3:34:07 Right. 3:34:08 Like this ER doctor actually tells you it's an extreme vaccine reaction. 3:34:12 Yes. 3:34:12 And wants you to be referred to a clinic for vaccine injury. 3:34:15 Yes. 3:34:16 And... 3:34:17 So explain to your muscles actually getting broken down. Speaker 30
3:34:20 Yes. 3:34:21 And that's what's going on. 3:34:22 He said he saw it right there and he did explain to me. 3:34:26 He was kind enough to say that. 3:34:30 I will encounter a lot of doctors who will be reluctant to want to address this. 3:34:39 So this is where he just said, he didn't know who my family doctor was. 3:34:43 He said, so in case your doctors, you need to push, you need to go to the vaccine injury clinic. 3:34:49 So unfortunately with my doctor at the time, they did diagnose vaccine injury. 3:34:56 I had to go on disability leave short term. 3:35:00 From there, it was again reluctant to get me into the vaccine injury clinic. 3:35:05 I had to sort of fight for that. 3:35:07 And at the point where I believe it was in January, my doctor just said that because I'm a manager, a supervisor group leader at General Motors, I can self-modulate. 3:35:19 Even though I'm still injured, I can go back to work. 3:35:22 So I did. 3:35:24 And I went back to work. 3:35:25 And I remember being seen by the health nurse there. 3:35:28 And I told them, I'm still at risk of having heart attack. 3:35:32 And in fact, sorry, I'm going to back up one bit. 3:35:34 While I was in my doctor's, 3:35:37 office being checked out, she had to send me to St. Joseph's hospital emergency because right in the middle of talking with her, for whatever reason, I guess she saw my face was flushed or something. 3:35:47 So she took my blood pressure. 3:35:49 I don't know what it was, but whatever it was, she called St. Joseph's and said, if I, my wife couldn't get me there, she'd send an ambulance because my heart, my blood pressure had gone up so far. 3:35:59 She thought I was having a heart attack in her office. 3:36:02 So that never fixed itself either. 3:36:05 But she said, because I'm, 3:36:08 a non-physical job, I can go back and self-accommodate. 3:36:11 So I went back in and did so. 3:36:15 And then shortly afterwards, I was dropped as a patient for being out of area. 3:36:21 So I was left with the hospital as being my only recourse of treatment during while waiting for the vaccine injury. 3:36:31 And 3:36:33 I didn't go to the vaccine injury because when I spoke to the person there to make the appointment, I was hoping to get some treatment. 3:36:41 And they informed me that, no, they just wanted to find out what was going on with me. 3:36:46 So I felt like, okay, so you want me to help you? 3:36:48 I'm going to be your guinea pig. 3:36:51 I need help. 3:36:52 And they said, no, that's what your family doctor's for, who had just dropped me as an out of, so I had no family doctor. 3:37:00 And the hospital got to the point where I'd been in and out of there over the year until I finally got a real good family doctor. 3:37:09 They just kept feeling sore for me. 3:37:10 I became a regular patient there to come in, get toward all. 3:37:13 And as they said, they weren't able to treat me. 3:37:16 I needed to go see specialists, which they couldn't do. 3:37:20 But what they could do is sort of patch me together, give me painkillers and sort of let me hobble along until I can get the proper treatment. 3:37:28 And I had to go through that for over a year. 3:37:31 Finally, I did reach a good doctor who actually got me the right treatment or at least trying to, but even in that case there, I'm gonna hesitate on naming names here because some of them were really good. 3:37:51 And again, they openly said to me that they were afraid that they would lose their license. 3:38:01 by openly putting their treatment down on paper. 3:38:04 And for that, I don't want any doctor to lose their license over me. 3:38:07 I just want help. 3:38:10 And I do remember one specialist I went to see where they had, I guess, a student doctor they were training, and they were in the office treating me, and they really wanted to help me. 3:38:23 I really felt hope for a moment. 3:38:25 And I just remember the specialist pulled them outside the office, but I could still hear them. 3:38:30 And they warned the students, no, don't go there. 3:38:35 This is beyond our scope. 3:38:38 We don't go near the causation. 3:38:41 And then that's when they came back in and they told me anything to do with essentially the vaccine injury, the causation is beyond their scope. 3:38:52 They will just treat the symptoms. Speaker 3
3:38:55 I'm just going to focus you a little bit. 3:38:57 Yeah. 3:38:59 you are permanently disabled. Speaker 30
3:39:01 Yes, I have mobility issues. 3:39:04 And during that time, I tried to go back for accommodation and General Motors cited a no cane policy and they refused to accommodate me. 3:39:16 So they forced me onto LTD. Speaker 3
3:39:18 Which is long-term disability. 3:39:20 Yes. 3:39:21 So you wear an e-brace. 3:39:22 Yes. 3:39:24 And you can go 10 minutes with a cane. Speaker 30
3:39:26 Five, 10 minutes, yeah. 3:39:27 It's perfect. 3:39:29 I have blood staining on this knee from the swelling. 3:39:33 I don't know the medical term for it. 3:39:35 I'm sure there's a doctor that's going to know what it is. 3:39:38 And this one here is just permanently swollen. 3:39:41 And the flare-ups, I kind of jokingly call it a roadshow of pain through my body, through my shoulders, my hips, my knees, my feet. 3:39:50 And when the flare-ups start, again, I can't walk. Speaker 3
3:39:57 How are you doing today? Speaker 30
3:39:59 I'm in a bit of pain. 3:40:00 I'm in pain. 3:40:01 As soon as we're done here, I'm going to have to take some painkillers. Speaker 3
3:40:07 And yesterday you were trying to watch, but you had to go back to the hotel and lay down. 3:40:12 Yeah. 3:40:12 So just daily activities, like even coming to watch the proceedings, can tire you out. 3:40:19 We're going to pull up a couple of photos. Speaker 3
3:40:22 So if we can do that. 3:40:23 So this is you before vaccination. 3:40:26 Yes. Speaker 30
3:40:26 That's the year before I was holding my wife. Speaker 3
3:40:29 Yeah. 3:40:29 Basically holding your wife. 3:40:31 So, which just demonstrates, you know, physically fit, not definitely not walking with a cane or having any difficulties at all. 3:40:40 And if we can show the next one, which is actually about swelling. 3:40:43 I just, you know, you were describing swelling feet, but I think a photo. 3:40:48 speaks really loudly. 3:40:49 So this is what you were experiencing and still experience. 3:40:52 Yes, that's days after. Speaker 30
3:40:55 And that's what I still experience when the flare up. 3:40:57 And that's, again, they've tested me for blood clots and it's really almost, they just say, well, we don't know. 3:41:05 We'll give you some more painkillers and keep you on your way. Speaker 3
3:41:11 When we were, when I was interviewing you, 3:41:16 I don't even remember when that was, but you had said a couple of things that was interesting. 3:41:21 I want to kind of go there. 3:41:23 We were talking about, you know, how this has affected you mentally, and you were talking about, and we'll get there, but you said a comment. 3:41:31 There was one fellow that was active online, an MP, Doug E. Olofsson, and you said he re-traumatizes you. 3:41:40 He does. 3:41:41 And can you explain that and explain the mental journey? Speaker 30
3:41:44 Well, I read his posts and I'm sorry, I've reached out to him. 3:41:48 I've called his office. 3:41:50 I've sent him emails. 3:41:52 I've tried to contact him on chat. 3:41:55 I've reached out because his post will say from the Canadian, because they used to track vaccine injured on the Canadian website. 3:42:07 And he'll say there are this many vaccine injured. 3:42:10 but then pivots directly towards vaccine hesitancy. 3:42:14 And I take it as he's essentially gaslighting the issue where if we don't talk about it, it's more important to bury the injured and fight vaccine hesitancy, as it's put. 3:42:28 So I've responded to his post several times trying to say, okay, I actually said it'd be wonderful if he showed up here. 3:42:37 He could lend his medical knowledge to say, OK, let's fix this system that left us sort of forgotten, if you will, and not treated. 3:42:48 And again, it's gone with silence. 3:42:50 And in fact, one person, I don't know who they were, because again, you can't verify who's online talking to you. 3:42:59 And they said to me that he is a compassionate doctor. 3:43:03 Because what I said to them was, for a doctor, he seems very... And I wasn't... No, I'm sorry. Speaker 3
3:43:11 It intrigued me that even somebody questioning people coming here and testifying, that's what I was curious about, would trigger you. 3:43:22 So what has been the mental journey and what has been the experience like dealing with the medical system? Speaker 30
3:43:28 That there, the gaslighting that I've received from medical, this is where it gets hard because it's in my medical records, it's vaccine injured. 3:43:42 But again, most of the medical system that I've encountered, 3:43:46 they refuse to look at that. 3:43:48 And they say, well, it must be I'm diabetic. 3:43:50 It must be something else. 3:43:52 It must be. 3:43:52 And they run through the whole gamut of things that it could be. 3:43:56 And I have to almost fight with them to say, read my charts. 3:44:01 And when they do read the charts, come back in, they treat me like I've done something wrong. 3:44:08 And I've been labeled as anti-vaxxer. 3:44:11 At one point, I remember outside the room, this 3:44:15 boggled my mind when they called me a, I heard Trump supporter. 3:44:20 And I remember I'm with my wife and I'm thinking, what does that have to do with my injury? 3:44:28 I don't understand how that factors in. 3:44:30 And then the anti-vax label, I don't understand. 3:44:34 Like I'm trying to be non-emotional and I'm thinking they have my medical records there. 3:44:39 They can see I'm fully vaccinated. 3:44:43 And to be vaccine injured, I must have taken the vaccine. 3:44:47 So where does anti, and this is where I was just, I'm in so much pain. 3:44:51 I'm writhing. 3:44:53 I just want help. 3:44:54 And when you're getting that kind of reaction from, I call it like the doctors that I'm reaching out to help for, it's just, it feels surreal. 3:45:05 It's almost like a twilight zone experience because this, the hospital, my doctors, that's where you go when you're sick. 3:45:13 That's where you go when you're injured. 3:45:15 So to have this kind of 180 where I'm encountering this, I never experienced that before in my life. 3:45:27 Thank you very much for being here. 3:45:29 Can I say one just, I just want to say, and thank you, Sean, and thank you, Dean Allison. 3:45:36 I really never thought this was going to happen. 3:45:38 I really thought I'd be forgotten. 3:45:43 That was my experience for the last several years. 3:45:46 So as much as it hurts me to be here, I felt I had to because what yous are doing, I just want to say thank you. 3:45:55 And if I can, if me being here does anything, I don't care what I'm feeling, the pain, I have to do my part as well. 3:46:02 So thank you. Speaker 3
3:46:06 Well, Thor, I want to thank you for coming and sharing your story because I know it's at a cost and, uh, 3:46:12 what you've said to us, I hope will change the world because the world's watching these proceedings. 3:46:17 It's quite shocking how it's, I think we were number seven worldwide now. 3:46:22 So you are being heard today and we're just honored to hear you in person here. 3:46:30 Thank you. Speaker 1
3:46:31 Before I turn it over to my colleague, Mr. Dawson, part of the reason we're doing this is that we want to have a public discussion, right? 3:46:38 It's crazy that as MPs and a number of my colleagues have heard from people on a multiple level, and we can have these conversations privately, but for some crazy reason, we can't talk publicly about it. Speaker 1
3:46:50 And we've got to be able to break that stigma down. 3:46:52 We've got to give people permission to tell their stories publicly. 3:46:57 Because if we don't start a discussion, if we don't have conversations, we don't encourage other brave doctors to come forward. 3:47:03 Right. 3:47:03 and share those. 3:47:04 And you can imagine if we had a whole bunch of docs that showed up at the same time saying, we got to address these issues. 3:47:10 We got to figure out a way to get treatment. 3:47:12 And by not having conversations, we can't get treatment, right? 3:47:14 Because they don't acknowledge this exists. 3:47:16 It's kind of this, you know, carrot and stick or chicken and egg or whatever you want, you know, that is a challenge. 3:47:22 So that's why we're doing it. 3:47:24 And I completely concur with you. 3:47:28 When people are calling people that had injuries 3:47:32 Handing vaccines, it's the most ridiculous thing, but it just shows you where we're at with dialogue in this country. 3:47:38 We've got to fix that. 3:47:39 Exactly. 3:47:39 And we've got to push forward. 3:47:40 We've got to encourage people. 3:47:41 We've got to demand people to have conversations that are uncomfortable. 3:47:45 Yes. 3:47:45 We have to have uncomfortable conversations. 3:47:48 And that's why I'm glad my colleagues are here, because I want them to help me have those uncomfortable conversations as well. 3:47:54 So I'm going to turn it over to Mike. Speaker 23
3:47:59 You had mentioned your family. 3:48:00 Wife and kids and family, just wondering how it affected your daily life. 3:48:05 Oh, that family. 3:48:07 Yeah. Speaker 30
3:48:08 It turned my experiences, especially I remember the one experience that sticks with me is my second son, not my oldest, but he spent overnight with me in a hospital while I was in a wheelchair and watching the nurse who thankfully she watched me writhing in pain in the lobby. 3:48:24 So she came out and actually gave me a pain, a tort all shot to just because there was a long wait. 3:48:30 in the waiting room, but that's far from the experience I wanted to have with my son, for him to have to watch me like that. 3:48:39 Whereas just the month prior, we were in the gym lifting weights. 3:48:45 That was just surreal. 3:48:47 And I remember just coming home and crying and talking to my wife about that, saying, this is not the father I wanted to be. 3:48:55 And having my daughters and my children watch me having to crawl to the bathroom and at times not making it, that's not the experience I wanted to share. 3:49:06 And my wife, who I love dearly, has now pretty much become my caregiver when I'm having those flare-ups, who's been my rock and been there, but that's not what I chose and what I wanted. Speaker 23
3:49:20 I think it's important to hear that because 3:49:24 Yes, we're hearing testimony from people that are feeling the effects of the vaccines physically and mentally, but the physical toll is one thing, but the mental toll it takes on family members, husbands, wives, kids, mothers, fathers, I think those stories need to be told too so people can understand it doesn't just affect the person with the injury, it affects the families and the people involved. 3:49:50 So thank you for being here. 3:49:52 Thank you for your story. Speaker 1
3:49:54 Thank you. 3:49:56 Could I just also, Thor, you should work at GM. 3:49:57 Were you in St. Catharines or Oshawa? Speaker 30
3:50:00 I was in Ingersoll. Speaker 1
3:50:01 Oh, Ingersoll. 3:50:02 Because the third one I did in a minute. 3:50:04 Okay. 3:50:04 And what part of the, where do you live? 3:50:06 I live in Ingersoll. 3:50:07 Ingersoll. 3:50:07 Okay. 3:50:08 So when you said you traveled to Hamilton, that's where you came for. 3:50:11 Perfect. 3:50:12 I just wanted your context there. 3:50:13 Thanks. 3:50:14 Thank you. Speaker 3
3:50:19 Thank you, Thor. 3:50:20 So our next witness is Daniel Freehite. 3:50:23 And Daniel, 3:50:24 Welcome. 3:50:26 Daniel will, first of all, put you under oath. 3:50:30 So do you, Daniel Friedheit, promise to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Speaker 4
3:50:40 I solemnly affirm to tell the truth. Speaker 3
3:50:42 Thank you, Daniel. 3:50:44 Just by way of introducing you, you're a member of the Law Society of Ontario. 3:50:48 You're a certified specialist in corporate and commercial law. 3:50:52 You also do a lot of regulatory and advisory practice. 3:50:56 You're a graduate of Western Law and Ivy Business School, and you've done a lot of advocacy relating to public health and public safety. 3:51:05 And that includes you've acted for a number of people that have had issues with the Vaccine Injury Support Program. 3:51:12 And so we've invited you to share with us about your experiences, the trials of your clients, and what you've found out through access to information requests. Speaker 4
3:51:22 So I was assisting people in accessing compensation through the Vaccine Injury Support Program. 3:51:30 And in that regard, I did make an Access to Information Act request early on, probably around June of 2020. 3:51:36 I got back the Access to Information Act request around June of 2022. 3:51:41 A schedule to that document was redacted. 3:51:47 And I thought it was quite relevant to understanding how the program worked. 3:51:51 Even the title of the document itself was redacted. 3:51:53 What wasn't redacted were the paragraph headings. 3:51:56 And so a lot of what I'm saying, by the way, is available on my X account. 3:52:02 I'm going by recollection here, but one of the paragraphs related to the appeal process under the Vaccine Injury Support Program. 3:52:09 And one of the paragraphs related to transparency. 3:52:12 So I thought it was very unusual that these portions of the document were redacted. 3:52:16 So I did file an appeal with the Office of the Information Committee. Speaker 3
3:52:20 So can I just slow you down? 3:52:21 Because some people won't understand. 3:52:24 So access to information, we have an act called the Access to Information Act, where the government is legally obligated to provide us with information. 3:52:33 And you basically request information on that program, and you get a copy of the contract. 3:52:39 between the federal government and this third party provider, but blanked out are things like the appeal process. 3:52:48 And so you're, well, why would this be blanked out? Speaker 4
3:52:51 Well, and right, and the website for the Vaccine Injury Support Program, which has now been removed, which has been reported, that website didn't provide that much information about the relationship between the Public Health Agency of Canada 3:53:06 and the third party providers to how that worked. 3:53:09 So the Access to Information Act disclosure was helpful, except for those redactions, but it did provide some insight into the budget. 3:53:16 And all this is leading up to how it affects how people apply to the program and how it impacts the application process. 3:53:24 It disclosed the heavy allocation to the administrative costs. 3:53:28 I think it's been reported it was over 63% around. 3:53:32 of the program budget was going to the administrator, which is very high compared to other programs. 3:53:38 And that was actually in the contract. 3:53:40 That was disclosed in the contract, that total amount. Speaker 3
3:53:42 So when people criticize publicly, wow, this percentage went in, well, the government knew that in advance. 3:53:50 They contracted so that two-thirds of the amount would go to administration and only a small amount would go to compensation. Speaker 4
3:53:56 So other comparable programs, what I'm seeing is the Worker Safety and Insurance Board program of Ontario, the allocation I think is closer to 15 to 20% as to the program cost versus there's also another motor vehicle fund in Ontario. 3:54:11 And the program cost there is again closer to 30% at most. 3:54:15 from the websites that we're consulting. 3:54:18 So, yes, this was a high administrative cost for this program. 3:54:21 And, you know, to be fair, reviewing these records does take a lot of time. 3:54:25 There are extensive documentation looking at the, you know, the reports, the scientific reports to establish causality. 3:54:33 It's a program that was in its infancy, and so it would be generally typically higher, but that was surprising to see as a layperson. Speaker 3
3:54:40 You know, we had a witness here earlier. 3:54:44 I think it was Michael Oates who was suggesting, you know, the program really should be designed where, you know, the default is we're going to compensate you and let's find a reason not to. 3:54:55 So, but in any event, you're telling us that at the very beginning, this program by contract, the federal government knew that almost, you know, most of the money would be going to administration. Speaker 4
3:55:09 Correct. 3:55:09 And to that point, I think if every application was just accepted without too much review, that can create its own hazard. 3:55:16 So I can see the need for a bit of a pushback in some of these applications. 3:55:20 I do recall that Thailand had a different approach in this regard. 3:55:24 Thailand was much more, to your point, accepted the injury as stated, but they just awarded a lesser amount for each application. 3:55:31 So there's some advantages to this. Speaker 3
3:55:32 I slow you down because you just revealed something I hadn't thought of. 3:55:36 They both 3:55:37 They've only got a limited amount of money to dish out under the contract. 3:55:41 So they're kind of obligated that it's not going to come out of their own pockets. 3:55:46 So they're actually limited in the amount. 3:55:48 So it's a closed amount regardless of the number of people that apply and regardless of the injuries they have. Speaker 4
3:55:54 Well, that's one of the reasons why I thought it was important. 3:55:57 Why I wanted to come here today is that that is part of the constraints of the program is that there is an incentive to or just the way the mechanism works. 3:56:06 It's you have a limited budget. 3:56:08 A certain portion goes to the administrative costs and you have to reserve hold back the funds for those who've been injured from the vaccine. 3:56:15 And so, yes, there is a sort of mechanism to delay payments. 3:56:20 And you see that with the appeal process, which going back to my earlier comments about the redactions, what that appeal process revealed to me was that it was part of a schedule to that document, the contribution agreement called the litigation management plan or process. 3:56:37 So meaning that schedule was really designed to slow down litigation against Health Canada or Public Health Agency of Canada and the third party provider of the service. 3:56:50 That was the whole point of that schedule. 3:56:53 It was ultimately unredacted by the Office of the Information Commissioner in September, for me, I think September of 2023. 3:57:02 And so that showed how you deal with the appeals. 3:57:07 process, which from my experience with the Vaccine Injury Support Program, I do not believe they complied with that aspect of the contract. Speaker 3
3:57:16 And I apologize we didn't create a slide, but you provided me with those documents, which I have to say just shocked me. 3:57:22 So thank you for doing that work of doing the ATI request to reveal this. 3:57:26 But I'm just going to read the paragraph that you flagged to my attention. 3:57:30 So this is in the contract, and this is what should govern the right to access an appeal. 3:57:37 And it reads, so this is Section 3.1.3. 3:57:42 Claimants will be advised that a claim can be resubmitted for assessment only if new reliable evidence from a recognized source has arisen to support a causal relationship between the injury and or the progression of industry. 3:57:59 Now, tell us what that means. Speaker 4
3:58:01 So that's very interesting. 3:58:02 And that, to me, suggests that when people were being denied on their initial application and they were given a time limit to appeal, when I saw that unredacted component, I mean, that really opened up the appeal timeframe. 3:58:16 It means that anytime there's new studies, anytime someone with an injury from the vaccine gets a proper diagnosis, and it's been taking a lot of people a lot of time. 3:58:27 We've heard that here the past couple of days. 3:58:29 I personally have assisted one individual whose diagnosis took, I think, four or five years. 3:58:36 So once that diagnosis is in, it's a fresh application. 3:58:41 To Public Health Agency Canada credit, the new program, the new V app does open up this window. 3:58:49 They're willing to look at it now. 3:58:51 So that's the silver lining. 3:58:53 The downside is that I think they're still overwhelmed. 3:58:57 They haven't addressed the administrative issue here, which is that there is more applications than they anticipated. 3:59:03 And that's also revealed in another ATIP, which shows that 255 people are being moved over from the original program. Speaker 3
3:59:14 And I just want to slow this down again, because some people might not understand how this would affect the people that are refused. 3:59:21 So if you're refused and you're told you have a short window to appeal, well, that wasn't what the contract said. 3:59:27 The contract said, well, at any time, 3:59:31 new information comes forward. 3:59:33 So if your appeals, your applications refused, we don't recognize this as vaccine injury. 3:59:39 And all of a sudden, other countries and there's research. 3:59:41 No, no, this is vaccine injury under the contract. 3:59:44 Well, you could just reapply because you have new information and people weren't told this. 3:59:49 And you were surprised because it didn't. 3:59:51 You're helping people in the appeal process and it's surprising you. 3:59:55 that the contract isn't matching what everyone believes? Speaker 4
3:59:58 There was, I think, confusion in the communication as to, yes, what is the finality of that first decision, and also confusion about the three-year final cutoff for any application. 4:00:09 So I think there was some, you know, some provisions that said there's a firm three-year cutoff, but then you have this other provision that says subject to, you know, if there's additional information or evidence. Speaker 3
4:00:21 What's the experience been like dealing with the Vaccine Injury Support Program, like as a lawyer trying to help? Speaker 4
4:00:29 So the main issue I have, and if it's one recommendation I can make for a public health agency in Canada going forward, is the chain of custody for medical records. 4:00:38 The major, major issue is that they're asking for medical records to come directly from the medical care provider. 4:00:45 Our doctors are already overwhelmed. 4:00:48 The admin staff is already overwhelmed to have them 4:00:51 have direct communication with PHAC for those documents is a burden on the hospital system. 4:00:56 So that was one issue I found was that there were major delays just in getting the medical records. 4:01:01 In court, all you have to do is have an affidavit and you attach all your documents as exhibits and you swear or affirm that affidavit and it's before a judge. 4:01:09 If it's good enough for a judge, it should be good enough for Public Health Agency of Canada. 4:01:13 to make a determination. 4:01:14 So that's one. 4:01:16 The other issue was a lot of turnover in the case managers that really caused a lot of delays in the applications, a lot of confusion. 4:01:24 But again, I think to their credit, I think PHAC has recognized this. 4:01:28 The only question is whether they have boots on the ground to now deal with this to solve the problem. Speaker 1
4:01:37 Daniel, thanks for coming. 4:01:38 And when we originally talked about, you know, this is a mystery, this whole 4:01:44 this program. 4:01:45 So I didn't realize, and I know we've had a couple conversations, that it was actually legit, like it was part of the contract that that amount of money would go to go to actual administration. 4:01:56 So my question in terms of how much more knowledge do you have of the new program versus the old program? 4:02:02 You sort of talked a bit, but is there still a lot of we have no idea? Speaker 4
4:02:07 They've put up some good information on the website about it, and I did obtain additional ATIPs through a third party, and I think Black Rocks did report on it, but in terms of the rebranding, it's called the Impact Assessment. 4:02:23 Correct, yeah. 4:02:26 So I think the new program has a number of benefits. 4:02:28 It doesn't... 4:02:31 First of all, the time window, they're accepting new applications. 4:02:33 They're looking at all the people who are administratively denied at the VISB, at the original program. 4:02:39 They're willing to look at those denials. 4:02:43 And again, I think the budget is important. 4:02:47 From what I've seen, there's been no limit in the budget. Speaker 1
4:02:49 Okay, so they're going to open it up. 4:02:52 It's not necessarily a cap now. 4:02:54 Correct. Speaker 4
4:02:55 And so the prior program had an annual income replacement cap of $100,000 per person per year. 4:03:04 There's no cap to the new program from what I've seen. 4:03:07 There was also a fixed amount for a death benefit. 4:03:10 There was a fixed amount for injury benefits. 4:03:12 So those don't appear, from what I've seen, limited in the new program, which, again, is to PHAC's credit. Speaker 1
4:03:18 Okay, well, that sounds encouraging. 4:03:20 I guess my other question would be then, although they may have seemed to open it up a bit more flexible, it's probably too early to tell whether people are still having a hard time filling out applications, getting them in. 4:03:33 And in response time. Speaker 3
4:03:36 I mean, that's a typical complaint against government, you know, bureaucracy. 4:03:40 Every program, right? Speaker 4
4:03:41 I think there is a lot of redundancy that could probably be reduced with, you know, if people fill out the forms online. 4:03:48 But again, it's getting those documents in there from, you know, in a different format. 4:03:52 Also ensuring that there is a medical review board in place. 4:03:55 I haven't seen any evidence yet. 4:03:57 There is actually medical practitioners or doctors as part of the new program. 4:04:04 So that's a concern. 4:04:05 I think ATIPs have been sought about that to determine who those doctors are, if they've been established. 4:04:12 But that needs to be confirmed because that's your bottleneck. Speaker 1
4:04:14 So we're not making recommendations to this inquiry. 4:04:21 If you could recommend a few things that would make sense for the program, have you thought about that at all in terms of that, or would you be willing to provide some information for us after the fact? Speaker 4
4:04:31 Sure, yeah, I'd be happy to. Speaker 1
4:04:32 Do you have anything off the top of your head right now, or have you been thinking about anything? Speaker 4
4:04:36 Well, I can say just those two issues, which is the chain of custody of medical records, to make that simpler. 4:04:44 and more efficient for everybody. 4:04:47 Win for the doctors, win for the hospitals, win for everybody. 4:04:50 And the other recommendation I would say is just to get that review board and have it certified all the prior decisions that were made. 4:04:57 I haven't seen like they've attached the decision as a schedule and it's, 4:05:02 We're told by a case manager that that was reviewed by a board, but we need better evidence. 4:05:07 And my recognition would be to have a regulated professional confirm that there has been a team. 4:05:12 And I know we don't want to name medical professionals because there can be a concern there for their careers. 4:05:18 I think they should be identified to someone who can just verify that they have the qualifications to make those determinations. 4:05:26 That's great. Speaker 3
4:05:28 Well, I just find it interesting that in every other forum, we know who the decision maker is. 4:05:33 We can see if there's bias and appeal based on bias. 4:05:37 We can see if they're qualified and appeal based on qualified. 4:05:40 But for some reason, because this is a forbidden topic, that there's a risk of disclosing medical practitioners in case they happen to be ruling in favor of vaccine injured, that that could hurt their careers. 4:05:54 I mean, that's in itself speaks volumes. Speaker 4
4:05:58 I acknowledge it is unusual. 4:06:00 Every tribunal in this country, from what I know, the tribunal members are all identified, I guess because the response, the COVID response was so dramatic and it was very volatile. 4:06:13 I appreciate that it's now a sensitive area. Speaker 1
4:06:19 Okay, we're almost out of time, but any final thoughts for us on this? Speaker 4
4:06:22 I know that's it. 4:06:22 I just thank you very much for allowing me the opportunity. 4:06:26 I really appreciate it. 4:06:27 all our discussions and thank you all for. Speaker 1
4:06:28 Well, thanks. 4:06:29 Thank you very much for the input. 4:06:30 It's very helpful. 4:06:31 Thank you. Speaker 3
4:06:32 And I know you traveled on short notice to do this. 4:06:34 We really appreciate you coming and sharing this. Speaker 1
4:06:39 Okay. 4:06:39 So we're going to break for lunch now from 1230 to 115. 4:06:46 But what we are going to do, we've got Teresa Buckley. 4:06:50 We had over 1400 people. 4:06:51 We've mentioned that a few times. 4:06:53 And we want to read some of the names into our record. 4:06:57 So she is going to spend some time doing that over the course of lunch. 4:07:01 We are breaking for lunch, but she'll be doing that and doing that for part of the feed that's being sent out. Speaker 10
4:07:10 Okay. 4:07:11 Thanks. Speaker 15
4:07:14 Kelly Butler. 4:07:16 Wendy DeGreschi. 4:07:19 Daniela Rodek. 4:07:22 Loretta 4:07:26 Vicky Armstrong. 4:07:29 Daniella Brodick. 4:07:33 Jody Delwo. 4:07:36 Michael DeFani. 4:07:40 Erin Gillis. 4:07:43 Cindy Byers. 4:07:45 Sherry Guttard. 4:07:48 Leanne Dale. 4:07:51 Renee Sigowich. 4:07:54 Jason Sodeck, Melissa McHelney, Natasha Grobia, Crystal Tarrin, Daniel Smith, Jennifer Barasa, Mark William Hayes, Dallas Fillion, Anita Byron, Julie Pender, Kerry Sakamoto, Zara Cormier, 4:08:23 Christine Lebanque. 4:08:26 Andrew Leung. 4:08:29 Laura Condon. 4:08:31 Mitchell Smith. 4:08:34 Ron Palko. 4:08:37 Josephine Fillier. 4:08:40 Michelle Wharton. 4:08:43 Kayla Pollock. 4:08:45 Shannon Goldade. 4:08:48 Tanya Moody. 4:08:52 Margaret Schuller. 4:08:55 Norm Boves. 4:08:57 Cheryl Schutt, on behalf of her deceased father. 4:09:02 Dimitri Urtyski. 4:09:05 Mark Chapman. 4:09:07 Annabelle Edge. 4:09:09 Shauna Keynes. 4:09:11 Dorothy McAdam. 4:09:13 Michael James McNair. 4:09:15 Danielle Eze Beheels. 4:09:18 Trudy Hill. 4:09:20 Diane Spaulding. 4:09:22 Christopher Cormier Jensen, Kyle Beistat, Shelby Gondor, Robert Lawler-Steger, Jamison Cobbs, Alicia Bishop for Hudson Bishop, our son, Jane Emily Newton, Tracy Bilinski, Michael Oesch, Crystal Metzinger, Laura Vail, Tanya, Trevor, 4:09:52 Daniela Rodic, Paula St. Arnaud, Laura English, Erica Ryan, Elizabeth Armitage, Shelly Mitterhaus, Tracy Hewitt, Jason Yankee, Catherine Christensen on behalf of CAF members, Sarah Charlatan, Mac Liddell, Crystal Denome, 4:10:22 Jennifer Ellard-Alexis, John Cushing, Lisa Bonell, Christine, Shane Lytle, Diane Okima, Sheila Nitti, Brigene Wei, Mike Hughes, Lisa Faust, Maxine Paquin, Tammy Osborne, Monica Menard, 4:10:52 Dale Dupuis, Katerina Kuhn, Vedran Vanak, Stephanie Simpson, Daniella Rodek, David Stanton Graham, Victoria Turner, Carol Monet, Heather Murray, Emily Estevez, Darren Byers, Paula Kneedler, Brent Baer, Barbara Baugh, 4:11:23 Allison Anger, Karen Taylor, Daniela Rodek, Jennifer Jacobs, Walter Slater, Allison Elizabeth Fry, Leslie Bartha, Daniela Siga, Neil Burkett, Randy Reeve, Earl Bryson, Tyson Doerr, Arthur Burzak, Stefan Kim Sidorovic, 4:11:52 Carol Skinner, Blair Meadows, Corissa Bourreau, Roger, Heather Teshenoff, Sharon Bolton, Darlene Parsons, Christine Sotosak, Annette Martin, Jason Urquhart, Jack Chisholm, Joanna Sampson, Donna Lujic, Karen Coble, 4:12:22 Tammy, Anthony Kingsbury, Marguerite Poulin, Douglas Eldon Cavanaugh, Diane Kinnear, Thor Hart, Cindy Young, Della Fleming, Joyce Bogart, Lyle Fenning, Donna McRae Bunton, Danielle Perrineau, Jennifer Lowe, Joel Leonard, Ruth Davey, 4:12:52 Dylan Watmos, Leona Power, Carol Baumgarten, Dawn Menard, Jamie R. Daniels, Wendy Jenkins, Rochelle Caroline Plaza, Leanne Lightfoot, Kirk St. John, Tammy Forrest, Susan Conway, Kurt, Peggy Dressen, Kevin Street, 4:13:21 Darren O'Rourke, Tom Elassier, Katelyn Wilde, Ross Whiteman, Dave, Lorena Leggery, Jasmine Macbeth, Christine Renee Ditzel, Amber Marshall, Brian Wills, Michelle Thorne, Ronald Anthony Cole, Cameron William Hubert Hitchcock, Jennifer Britton, 4:13:52 For her mom. 4:13:54 Crystal Clark. 4:13:55 Rosario Messana. 4:13:58 Anthony Crescini. 4:14:00 Nicholas Stewart. 4:14:02 Deanne Seaton. 4:14:03 Justin Martin. 4:14:05 Dan Hartman. 4:14:07 Marie Louise Allen. 4:14:09 Rachel Hardy. 4:14:11 Marnie Flanagan. 4:14:13 Arlen Sansom. 4:14:16 Michael Punco. 4:14:18 Sean McKibben. 4:14:20 Lisa Savelli. 4:14:22 April Quinn, Elma Bravo-Ramla, Carl McBride, Dawn Skylahus, Stephanie Jouer, Brodie Burt, Nicole Guay, Jacey Kudicat, Jamie Rollingston, Dr. Andrew George-Huff, Marcel Chenier, Donna Elgeson, Christine Preston, 4:14:52 Leanne, Leanne Bourgeon, Becky Brown, Donald Andrew Owens, Jessica Manthorn, David W. Ferney, Carrie Plouffe, Geneviève Dubé, Dr. Donald Welsh, Lana Sochuk, Katherine Howland, Andrea Adams, Daniela Sauvé, Michelle Richardson, 4:15:22 Kevin Bowman, Courtney Darwin, Sandy Boulay, Carrie White-Allen, Wayne Ponzino, Mark Moise, Amanda McLean, Dan Boucher, Maria Kent, Kieran Laxon-Whitford, Patrick Ecclesies, Angela Geldart, 4:15:52 James Fess, Maria Dunning, Vivian Buckley, Karen Cummings, Elisa Crevier, Michael Thomas, James Mark Chaloner, Chris Darlington, Dr. Shelley Evans, Lindsay Scott, Carolyn Martins, Rodney Lundrigan, Pera Grignan, 4:16:21 Yvonne Gerald. 4:16:24 Denise Ketching. 4:16:26 Cynthia Horvath. 4:16:29 Melissa Randall. 4:16:31 Lorraine Holachuk. 4:16:33 James Freeland. 4:16:36 Kenneth Barnes. 4:16:38 Christine Dill. 4:16:41 Amy Martineau. 4:16:43 Corey Richard. 4:16:45 Kayen. 4:16:47 Amy Martineau. 4:16:50 Andrew. 4:16:52 Laurie Smith, Joanne Smith, Bradley Harrison, Christy Lynn Heberhurt, Victoria Simmons, Matthew, Justine King, Shanda LeBlanc, Sharon Gavilan, April Funk, Sean Patterson, Rebecca Quinnell, 4:17:22 Robert McDonald, Michael Currie, Sonia Lapka, Tracey Knott, Wendy Hamel, Sarah Juno, Wendy Hamel, Karen Dreher, Christine Larkin, Sarah Faulkner, Mary Kaleski, Margaret Bork, Michelle Heber Elom, 4:17:52 Juanita Silver, Donna Erlitsen, John Kiliuk, Konstantin Bashkanov, Keith Richards, Mary Ann Dunlop, Lisa Swinminar, Angela Spruill, Anthony, Carol Burns, Oz Marshall, Douglas Edward Graham, 4:18:21 Terry McLean, Tanya Tavarian, Wolf Bertels, Patricia Treschetti, Susan Lowe, Clayton Millan, Craig Madlug, Dimitri Ilchuk, Enzo Frate, Joanna Petty, Cherilee Redden, Kimberly Rogers, 4:18:51 Lauren Clark, Jackie Watson, Vince Buell, Irina Exumari, Catherine Cortes, Robert Grieg, Marlise Saint-Jean, April Crocker, Nicholas Bournais, Maria June Sutherland, Melanie Brown, Stephen Gingras, 4:19:21 Marilyn Patricia Griffin, Connie Henderson, Alex Gnosi, Zeena Hussain, Cassie Hornley, Jasmine Corno, Torgrim Rusted, Vienna Demeduck, Noeline Vilbrun, Tony Lanigan, Natalie Jarrett, Mary Jane Sherman, 4:19:50 Heather Laurie, Sophie Viath, Vicky Pynchon, Martin Chip Smith, Kathleen Lundgren, Chris Pullen, Ethan Berger, Valerie Bresnahan, Lester Empey, Jean Dabbles, Brooke Lalonde, Marcel Perron, Shelby Hutchinson, 4:20:20 Tony John Curlucci, John Stepanek, Neil Borkoski, Dallas McDougall, Rhonda Smith, Ashley Roberts, and Daniel Russell. Speaker 8
4:20:49 Thank you. Speaker 7
4:21:16 So I'm going to tell you this, and I'm sure you're going to love this story. 4:21:23 I'm going to read some of the story that I'm going to tell you, and I'm going to read some of the story that I'm going to tell you. 4:21:38 So I'm going to read some of the story that I'm going to tell you. 4:21:44 One of the things that I'm passionate about, which I think is kind of what I want to say, is that I really want to be in front of a bar. 4:21:55 I want to be in front of a bar. 4:21:57 I want to be in front of a bar. 4:22:00 I want to be in front of a bar. 4:22:02 I want to be in front of a bar. 4:22:05 I want to be in front of a bar. 4:22:14 they have to have the perfect match in order to be successful, which is an awesome thing. 4:22:19 The importance of having that perfect match in order to be able to answer questions, to be able to spread the science, to be able to solve the problems, to be able to provide an example, to be able to provide a solution. 4:22:32 I'm going to pass it back over to you. 4:22:34 In fact, it seems I'm going to need to list the questions that are one of the most difficult questions. 4:22:40 So I'm going to go ahead and throw them into the chat. 4:22:44 I'm so glad to meet all of you. Speaker 8
4:22:48 I'm so glad to meet all of you. Speaker 7
4:22:52 I'm so glad to meet all of you. 4:23:13 working on, one that's not necessarily physical. Speaker 8
4:23:16 It's not just natural. 4:23:19 It's not just a body. 4:23:21 It's a whole different thing. Speaker 7
4:23:23 I'm going to go into this a little bit more specifically, but I want to tell you what I'm going to talk about. 4:23:30 I'm going to tell you what I'm going to talk about. 4:23:35 It's kind of like saying the words, so I'll tell you what I'm going to talk about. 4:23:40 I'm going to tell you what I'm going to talk about. 4:23:43 This was around the end of the 19th century to the end of the 19th century to the end of the 19th century to the end of the 19th century to the end of the 19th century to the 4:24:12 once again writing to me. 4:24:13 It's about how we learn to believe that there is a God-given purpose to life in our society. 4:24:20 And that's not a lie. 4:24:22 It's not one thing. 4:24:23 It's not lying. 4:24:25 It's about assuring us that to us, we're connected by the fact that we're connected. 4:24:29 We're connected to God because we're God's friends. 4:24:32 And that's what we're trying to express to God. 4:24:35 And I'm also very proud to say that God knows what's going on. 4:24:41 And above all, the world is a world without a choice and not to be made. 4:24:46 Since the world was made, you will not be made. 4:24:48 You are made up to be a sort of specimen of a human being. Speaker 8
4:24:52 You are not a single being. Speaker 7
4:24:55 Your parents used to vote to be great, and don't care if you are great or not. 4:25:00 In other words, you're a self-made man as you seem. 4:25:04 And I'm going to answer this from your point of view. Speaker
4:25:07 We want to create a country that is super smart, Speaker 7
4:25:10 There are still incredibly high rates of misuse. 4:25:13 Also, prevention is a primary vehicle that is part of the scientific work that is brought on from other districts. 4:25:35 Thank you. Speaker 8
4:25:36 Thank you. 4:25:36 Thank you. 4:25:37 Thank you. 4:25:38 Thank you. 4:25:51 I'm going to read it for you. 4:26:09 I'm going to read it. Speaker 7
4:26:22 I was a private library health care professional, 10, 12, and 11 years of college. 4:26:49 someone with 20 years inside my family, and they're always being disreputable. 4:26:56 And so my personality includes the person who I love in my family. 4:27:02 And there's a lot of creative simply properties. 4:27:06 If you don't have someone with 20 years in your life, 4:27:19 Hi. Speaker 7
4:27:26 Hi. 4:27:29 Hi. 4:27:29 Hi. 4:27:29 Hi. 4:27:29 Hi. 4:27:47 Procedures include the collection of data, LCME, trial and trial content, field data and training, and real-life details. 4:27:57 The goal of our research is to create a system. 4:28:00 As a part of our research agenda, we have found that there are students who do a great deal of work across the system at St. John's. 4:28:08 We have called on Brad, Tyler, and Debra Bishop. 4:28:11 They are self-taught as ambassadors. 4:28:14 They are our encoders. 4:28:16 Florida, Florida, Russia, Brazil, Canada. 4:28:19 I have T-cells for you. 4:28:22 T-cells are for you. 4:28:23 We have all of the T-cells that you're seeing right now. 4:28:28 For us, you can use T-cells. 4:28:30 The next one is for you. 4:28:31 T-cells are for you. Speaker 8
4:28:38 Do you hear me? 4:28:48 Thank you. 4:28:49 Thank you. 4:29:00 Thank you. 4:29:01 Thank you. 4:29:01 Thank you. Speaker 7
4:29:02 Thank you. 4:29:17 Specialized diagnosis, chronic liver disease, cross-banded, and lymphoma. 4:29:23 Welcome to New York City. 4:29:24 Thank you for listening. 4:29:44 One year and 35,000 years. 4:29:45 It's been heavy. 4:29:46 I love you. 4:29:47 Hello, my name is Emily Hatton. 4:29:53 I'm a student at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. 4:29:56 So soon, I'm going to be seeing my second mother, so I'm going to be looking forward to seeing you all in Washington, D.C. We would love to see you all in Washington, D.C. 4:30:09 I'm sorry. 4:30:10 I'm sorry. 4:30:10 I'm sorry. 4:30:40 It's easy to write things fast. 4:30:42 It's easy to write things fast. 4:30:44 It's easy to write things fast. 4:30:47 It's easy to write things fast. 4:31:04 If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to me via email. 4:31:09 I will be happy to answer any questions you may have. Speaker 8
4:31:35 I don't know. 4:31:45 I don't know. 4:31:49 I don't know. Speaker 7
4:31:56 I don't know. 4:31:59 So we're going to start off with a few names that you might want to be aware of. 4:32:03 The first one, you need to know that you have a concept of your character, your audience. 4:32:10 What that is, is very important. 4:32:13 And what you need to know is that you have to know how to answer people's questions and how to answer them. 4:32:18 So we're going to start off with a name for our character. 4:32:22 But, most girls are immune. 4:32:26 Yeah, I worked hard. 4:32:29 If I put the time to work, I don't believe there's a chance of it. 4:32:32 So, I'm going to try to get this done. 4:32:34 I'm going to try to get this done. 4:32:36 I'm going to try to get this done. 4:32:39 So, yeah, there's a lot to talk about. 4:33:12 and found one another. 4:33:26 The workplace is a little bit, so we would not be able to support the big programs with the help of the equipment in the case. 4:33:32 If you have experience in adversarial action, if you're involved, and sometimes this is what we're hearing, if you're trying for someone to stay around, we'll support you. 4:33:44 I understand how you feel. 4:33:46 The cost can be a little bit, but a lot of times, it can be a lot of times. Speaker 8
4:33:51 And if it all rubs you, it doesn't mean you won't do it. 4:34:04 Thank you. 4:34:08 Thank you. Speaker 7
4:34:40 Thank you. 4:35:01 We've been contacted since 2015 to talk about disability reporting, where we'll see who survives, and what's great. 4:35:09 There's a burden to provide in a time when the world is in a great crisis. 4:35:12 We live in a time when mental health, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, mental health care, 4:35:32 to make sure that they can stay safe and thrive in the future. 4:35:36 So 12 hours are a good question. 4:35:40 The important thing that we talked about, and part of it is this, is that medical services need 12 hours per year for their vaccination. 4:35:48 This means that 12 hours of the COVID-19 vaccination should be done in a community center. 4:35:54 It has to be done for all people with COVID-19. 4:35:58 What are those 12 hours? 4:36:03 on the television. 4:36:05 But they are only one of us, or three of us. 4:36:09 We try this time to make the silence unbearable. 4:36:11 Because there were only two of us, one of us who had the right to get into the questions. 4:36:16 And while in Canada, three members of our team spoke properly of what we were saying. 4:36:23 Because it's all over each other's headspace. 4:36:24 And I was all pushed forward with it. 4:36:29 I'm terrible at this. 4:36:32 your plans for the project to perform well. Speaker 8
4:36:47 Your plans will grow more and more as you get older. Speaker 7
4:36:51 You will have access to very important information. 4:37:00 This showed up to be the only thing I could think of in the Christmas game, but it's an actual extreme game for me. 4:37:07 It has high speed, low speed, and high speed. 4:37:10 It has a lot of power. 4:37:12 So you have a car with a lot of time in it, and you're in the road. 4:37:16 You can make a lot of mistakes. 4:37:19 It's a fast-paced game. 4:37:20 You're in the road all day. 4:37:22 You're in the road all day. 4:37:24 You're in the road all day. 4:37:26 You're in the road all day. 4:37:30 I also have my own work that I then get to do as a collaborator for the experience. 4:37:32 And either I run a little thing for them, or I run a little thing for them. 4:37:36 And for a lot of them, that's what that appears to be. 4:37:38 My work is actually for people who need to learn how to control, what I mean, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next, 4:38:01 Thank you. Speaker 1
4:38:46 So welcome, everyone, and I want to thank you for being here today. 4:38:49 Just over a month ago, we launched the Alison Inquiry with a simple goal, to provide Canadians with an opportunity to share their experiences and ensure that their voices are being heard. 4:39:00 Today marks the next step in that process. 4:39:03 As we prepare for the hearings, we want to provide an update on the response we have received, encourage even more Canadians to come forward, and invite members of Parliament from all parties to take part in listening to the stories 4:39:15 of their constituents. 4:39:17 Over the past several years, Canadians experienced the pandemic in many different ways. 4:39:21 Many families lost loved ones to COVID-19. 4:39:24 Many frontline healthcare workers and first responders carried an enormous burden, and I want to once again thank them all for all the work they continue to do every single day. 4:39:35 There are also Canadians who suffered serious adverse events following vaccination and who feel their stories have not been adequately heard. 4:39:43 Regardless of where someone stands in the broader debate, every Canadian deserves to be treated with dignity, respect, and compassion. 4:39:52 When people come forward with their concerns about their health, our first response should never be dismissal. 4:39:57 It should be listening. 4:39:59 The individuals sharing their experiences with the Allison Inquiry are not statistics. 4:40:03 They are mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, friends, and neighbors. 4:40:07 Their experiences deserve to be documented, 4:40:10 examined and understood. 4:40:12 Good public policy depends on public trust. 4:40:15 Trust is strengthened when governments and institutions are willing to ask difficult questions, follow the evidence wherever it leads, and acknowledge when people have been harmed. 4:40:24 My position remains simple. 4:40:26 Compassion for those who suffered from COVID-19, compassion for those who were injured following vaccination, and a commitment to transparency, accountability, ensuring people have the opportunity 4:40:38 to tell their stories. 4:40:40 Canadians should never be afraid to speak and governments should never be afraid to listen. 4:40:45 Since announcing the Allison Inquiry just over a month ago, the response has been overwhelming. 4:40:51 Hundreds of Canadians from across the country have reached out to share their experiences. 4:40:56 Many have spoken about the physical, emotional, financial, and personal challenges they continue to face today. 4:41:03 Not everyone is comfortable testifying publicly, and we completely understand that. 4:41:07 But we still want to hear your story, because every story matters, whether it's shared publicly or privately. 4:41:14 We've also heard from members of Parliament from different parts of the country who have been contacted by constituents looking for answers and looking to be heard. 4:41:23 That is why emails have now been sent to every member of Parliament, inviting them to engage with this process, informing them of the opportunity for their constituents to participate. 4:41:34 If you are someone who believes you or a loved one suffered a vaccine injury, I encourage you to reach out to your local member of Parliament. 4:41:41 We invite MPs from all parties to come to the hearings, whether for an afternoon, a day, or the entire week. 4:41:46 This should not be a partisan issue. 4:41:49 It's about listening to Canadians. 4:41:51 Today, I want to highlight once again why these stories matter. 4:41:55 This is not about relitigating every decision made during the unprecedented public health crisis. 4:42:00 It's not about assigning blame. 4:42:02 It's about listening. 4:42:03 It's about learning. 4:42:05 It's about ensuring that when Canadians face the next public health emergency, we're better prepared because we have the courage and the honesty to examine experiences of Canadians. 4:42:16 Canadians deserve transparency. 4:42:18 Canadians deserve accountability. 4:42:21 And above all, Canadians deserve to know that their experiences matter. 4:42:25 The stories that will be shared during the Allison Inquiry are a reminder that behind every statistic is a human being. 4:42:33 Many have suffered in silence, their voices deserve to be heard, and their country should be willing to listen. 4:42:40 If you believe you or someone you know has been affected, we encourage you to share your story. 4:42:46 Whether you wish to testify publicly or simply submit your experience privately, we want to hear from you. 4:42:53 Please visit theallisoninquiry.com and complete the submission form. 4:42:58 Thank you very much for being with us today. Speaker 19
4:43:15 We thank MP Dean Allison, Sean, and Teresa Buckley for their courage and their leadership. 4:43:49 My name is Michelle Wharton. 4:43:54 And I am one of the thousands of Canadians who have experienced an adverse event following a COVID-19 vaccine. 4:44:08 And I'm also one of the co-founders of CanRise19. 4:44:13 a scientific-based nonprofit organization founded to support injured Canadians. 4:44:21 I was a thriving, vibrant healthcare professional, strong, healthy, and living my life to the fullest. 4:44:29 For more than 20 years, I served my community. 4:44:32 I built my own dental practice from the ground up, had personal time hiking and tour skiing in the mountains with my family. 4:44:42 I had no preexisting medical conditions. 4:44:46 Everything changed in the late fall of 2021. Speaker 9
4:44:50 My life, as I knew it, changed rapidly. Speaker 19
4:45:05 My health vanished. 4:45:08 I experienced an adverse reaction following the COVID-19 vaccine. 4:45:13 Within one hour of my first dose, I experienced elevated heart rate, rapid fluctuations in heart rate and blood pressure, shortness of breath, tightness in my chest, and a general feeling of being unwell. 4:45:26 Receiving these injections was not an action I took lightly, and sadly, true informed consent and bodily autonomy were not upheld, the very foundation of ethical practice. 4:45:40 Within 48 hours of my second dose, I experienced a rapid and severe onset of neurological and systemic symptoms, including blurred tunnel and double vision, burning sensations in my legs, urinary incontinence, tinnitus, dizziness, vertigo with rapid heart rate, blood pressure instability, chest tightness returning, and many additional symptoms that followed. 4:46:07 My health declined significantly and has continued to deteriorate over time. 4:46:18 I now live with much uncertainty of my future. 4:46:40 As a result of my vaccine injury, I was forced into medical retirement at just 46 years old. 4:46:49 A career that I loved ended abruptly with no opportunity to choose when or how it would end. 4:46:56 These conditions are dynamic, they're evolving, and they're not well understood. 4:47:00 This journey ultimately led me to the United States in 2023 and again in 2024 in search of private medical care, specialized diagnostics, selling my dental practice, 4:47:14 Crowdfunding and eventually brain surgery with a biopsy to relieve brain compression. 4:47:24 $148,000 for the brain surgery alone. 4:47:32 No one in Canada would help me. 4:47:34 They would see the onset of my injury and reject the referrals. 4:47:38 Since then, I've been diagnosed with numerous neurological and immune-mediated conditions, and it would take years of self-advocacy to be seen. 4:47:48 These conditions continue to progress rapidly, as they do for many Canadians across this country, and without early recognition in medical care, the prognosis is poor. 4:47:59 We are still living with the consequences of the past six years. 4:48:04 The exhaustion, the division, the distressed, the damage that never truly healed. 4:48:10 There has been no acknowledgement, no meaningful support, no medical care where promised, no accountability. 4:48:18 A society that refuses to learn from its past eventually relives what it failed to confront. 4:48:26 I live with vision loss, nerve damage, loss of feelings throughout my face and my limbs, and ongoing white matter brain lesions. 4:48:35 I experience difficulty maintaining upright position, balance impairment, and relentless neurological pain. 4:48:43 Sharp electric shocks, burning sensations, zapping, pain, numbness occur every single minute of every single day for five years. 4:48:56 brain inflammation, all due to an immune response that has never resolved. 4:49:01 Ongoing cystic masses in multiple organs, including my brain. 4:49:05 I spend 90% of my life homebound, bedbound. 4:49:15 No family should ever have to carry the burden of 4:49:24 after trusting and receiving a Health Canada approved medical product. 4:49:35 We have been left behind. 4:49:37 We've been disregarded. 4:49:38 This injury stole my independence, my quality of life, time. 4:49:43 We can never get back and replaced it with uncertainty and loss. 4:49:50 My faith, God, and my family have carried me through. 4:49:55 And today, I'm still fighting to access health care in Canada. 4:49:58 I'm still pleading for treatment. 4:50:02 But my story is not unique. 4:50:06 Today, I'm not here simply to share my story. 4:50:10 I'm here on behalf of the vaccine-injured community at Canterize 19 and the countless Canadians suffering in silence. 4:50:19 CanRise19 provides peer support groups, scientific resources, advocacy, emotional support, literature, and a developing medical care fund pending charitable status to assist Canadians in accessing medical care where the government supports have failed. 4:50:35 For years, stigma, dismissal, pain, and censorship left many of us feeling completely alone. 4:50:50 My co-founder and I, Julie Woods, found one another. 4:50:56 Through adversity, pain, isolation, censorship, and abandonment, CanRise19 was founded. 4:51:06 We hear the cries of the injured, and we would not be able to support injured Canadians with the help of our incredible volunteers. 4:51:13 If you have experienced an adverse reaction, if you are bereaved, if you've lost a loved one, or if you're caring for someone who's suffering, please reach out. 4:51:23 There is urgency. 4:51:24 The cost cannot be measured only in terms of medical ailments. 4:51:31 This injury robs you of the life you once dreamed of. 4:51:44 It tears your body apart, cell by cell, and it does not stop with the injured. 4:51:55 Our spouses, our children, our parents, our families, our loved ones, they carry these wounds alongside us. 4:52:07 Without acknowledgement, there is no pathway to care. 4:52:13 Five years, half a decade, we've waited. 4:52:20 While our health declined, the systems meant to protect us looked away. 4:52:24 For many like myself, we want to share our stories while we still have the health and the strength to do so. 4:52:30 Many are becoming less able to participate in advocacy efforts. 4:52:41 We have encountered profound systemic gaps between adverse event reporting, ongoing safety surveillance, and support. 4:52:48 This is vital to provide informed decision-making and recovery. 4:52:53 Many have experienced fragmented care, financial hardship, dismissal, medical gaslighting, and even ridicule. 4:53:02 And I can attest to this personally. 4:53:05 I've experienced it all. 4:53:08 And this isn't just about being vaccine injured. 4:53:11 It's about what happens after you experience an adverse event. 4:53:16 And Canadians need to be aware. 4:53:17 The Vaccine Impact Assistance Program, formerly known as VISP, was intended to serve as a safeguard for Canadians harmed following vaccination. 4:53:28 Instead, Canadians, including myself, have found ourselves trapped in a bureaucratic system that has failed the very people it was created to help. 4:53:39 We are not impacted. 4:53:42 We are injured. 4:53:45 The very name minimizes our loss. 4:53:48 The time is now to break the silence on Parliament Hill. 4:53:52 Across the world, injured individuals are entering hospice. 4:53:56 And here in Canada, some members of our community speak openly about MAID because it's the only health care they're offered. 4:54:05 And it's being pushed on many. 4:54:09 I've held these conversations. 4:54:12 I've encouraged injured to just hold on. 4:54:26 We are the quiet truth. 4:54:29 No one wants to say it loud. 4:54:33 We are the voices too often pushed into the silence and inside the fight never stops. 4:54:40 the struggle to fight for care within a broken medical system, the exhaustion that's settled over our family. 4:54:46 Throughout the past five years, hope has remained. 4:54:49 I continue to pray for our injured community in Canada and around the world. 4:54:56 We cannot give way to despair. 4:54:57 To suppress speech erodes the very fabric of a democratic society. Speaker 1
4:56:34 Welcome back to day two of the afternoon, and I'm going to turn it over to my colleague, Mr. Sean Buckley. Speaker 3
4:56:43 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 4:56:45 Our first witness this afternoon, is it okay if I call you Dr. Jessica Rose? 4:56:51 Because you've got a PhD, postdocs, postdocs. 4:56:56 So our first witness is Dr. Jessica Rose, who is a Canadian researcher and 4:57:03 Dr. Rose, first of all, we'll swear you in. 4:57:06 So, Dr. Rose, I guess you'll take the Bible in your right hand. 4:57:10 Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 4:57:14 So I'll help you with that. Speaker 3
4:57:17 So I just want to introduce you to the inquiry. 4:57:20 So Dr. Jessica Rose is a Canadian researcher with a bachelor's degree in applied mathematics, a master's degree in immunology. 4:57:30 a PhD in computational biology, two postdoctoral degrees, one in molecular biology and one in biochemistry. 4:57:41 She has her most recent or more recent research efforts are aimed at a descriptive analysis of the vaccine adverse event reporting system data. 4:57:52 And she's also done some research into the vaccine injury support program for the purposes of this inquiry. 4:58:00 And Dr. Rose, I understand that you've prepared a presentation for us, so I'd invite you to present. Speaker 6
4:58:06 Thanks. 4:58:09 I have a few slides. 4:58:11 It's all about data, various and sundry, Canadian-American, some information on the VISP system as well. 4:58:20 Before I start, I just want to extend very heartfelt thank yous to Dean and Sean and your wife, Teresa, 4:58:30 the MPs for showing up, and the injured most of all. 4:58:36 I mean, I've been doing this for five years or so, and I'm only doing it for the injured people. 4:58:42 So I think that this has already been incredibly impactful, and I think it's going to resonate throughout the world. 4:58:50 I honestly believe that, with or without my testimony. 4:58:57 So I want to start with some American data. 4:59:00 This is the V-safe data. 4:59:02 This was an app created by CDC, Centers for Disease Control in America, to enable the regular people of the world to download the app and report an adverse event if they succumb to one. 4:59:16 This had to be FOIA requested by the Informed Consent Action Network and Aaron Seary's legal team. 4:59:23 So this data that became available was only made available because it was FOIA requested. 4:59:30 It's very important that I make that point. 4:59:34 It took a year and a half to complete that process. 4:59:37 And I analyzed it about two weeks after the data came out. 4:59:40 And you can see on the bottom bar that there were almost 800,000 reports of the 10 million that were reported that required medical care. 4:59:50 Now that was the surface level data that we had. 4:59:53 Another staggering thing about this data was that only 30,492 of those reports were linked to VAERS, which is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, which represents an underreporting factor of approximately 26. 5:00:07 Senator Johnson mentioned that pharmacovigilance databases that are passive, which means it requires a volunteer submission, 5:00:16 are highly underreported, and they are. 5:00:18 So all the numbers I'm going to present to you today in reference to VAERS, you have to multiply them by at least 26. 5:00:25 That's the point. 5:00:27 Very recently, in August 2026, Brett Zavleffy, a colleague of mine, and Nelson Liu, these are MIT researchers, submitted a preprint on the subject matter of this data, and they found the following. 5:00:40 There were almost 2% of the 10 million reports that reported over three months after their last shot that their health condition was worsening. 5:00:52 And half of those, which is about 1%, a lot of people, 100,000, explicitly reported prolonged disability, hospitalization, or severe and debilitating adverse events. 5:01:04 Now, if you consider the fact that 272 million people in the United States received at least one dose by extension, you can... 5:01:15 make a prediction that over 5 million people in America alone might be suffering with debilitating injuries. 5:01:23 So this is not a small deal. 5:01:28 I'll go quickly through this because it's an obvious slide. 5:01:31 Prior to the COVID-19 injection rollout for four years, 2016 to 2020, all the data combined gathered by the WHO and the Uppsala Monitoring Centre, which is run by the WHO, 5:01:46 have a total of less than half a million adverse event reports for all vaccines combined across the world. 5:01:54 Come 2021, this rose, same people reporting this data, to almost 6 million. 5:02:02 That's not a small discrepancy. 5:02:05 That is a safety signal. 5:02:09 1,300% or more increase in the number of global reports. 5:02:15 Now, whenever you're analyzing or investigating pharmacovigilance databases, you have to follow up. 5:02:24 And if there is a safety signal detected therein, you have to do a causality assessment. 5:02:29 These are the Bradford Hill criteria listed here. 5:02:32 This is what the CDC, the FDA, and the WHO use. 5:02:35 They've traditionally used in the past. 5:02:38 And they have used these to make determinations of causal effects that you can see on the right. 5:02:44 But this is a short list. 5:02:46 So these are the ones that we all heard about. 5:02:48 The myocarditis, pericarditis, thrombosis with thrombocytopedia syndrome deaths, which were causally linked to the TTS. 5:02:58 Guillain-Barre, which we heard about today, and anaphylaxis, of course. 5:03:02 There was a particular Moderna batch number that had to be withdrawn in the United States because the signal for anaphylaxis was so high. 5:03:11 Temporality is the mandatory gatekeeper of these criteria, of course. 5:03:17 One thing has to come before the other in order for a causal effect to be there. 5:03:20 And the shorter the timeframe between those two things, the higher the likelihood. 5:03:25 I've heard a number of people here saying that they got their symptoms within hours of their shots. 5:03:30 So that's the most important criteria and it's satisfied. 5:03:36 So these are acknowledged by all of these agencies here, ACIP, CDC, FDA, and EMA. 5:03:42 So this is not anecdotal. 5:03:46 Like I said, pharmacovigilance, which is necessary when you're dealing with vaccines, includes follow-up, and it works. 5:03:54 So back in 1998, there was a vaccine called the RotaShield vaccine, and within VAERS, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, 5:04:04 There were 15, one, five intussusception reports. 5:04:07 Intussusception is when the bowel folds over on itself. 5:04:10 It's very painful. 5:04:12 This was in children. 5:04:14 The CDC saw the signal. 5:04:16 They looked it up. 5:04:17 They suspended the vaccine because this was considered to be a strong enough safety signal to do an investigation. 5:04:23 And lucky that they did because follow-up had almost 100 confirmed cases and 60 within a week. 5:04:30 So that's showing a temporal signal. 5:04:32 Eventually in 1999, the manufacturer themselves voluntarily withdrew the product because they saw that it was damaging kids. 5:04:42 So the point of this 5:04:44 before I show you that, is that VAERS works. 5:04:47 I'm absolutely sure everybody here has heard, well, you can't use VAERS to inform causation. 5:04:53 It's like nobody's saying that. 5:04:55 But you need to have a detection system ongoing in order to detect the signals with proper signal maintenance, like Senator Johnson was speaking about. 5:05:06 And then you have to do follow-up. 5:05:08 You have to do a causality assessment. 5:05:11 which was not the case in the context of the COVID-19 quote unquote vaccines. 5:05:17 This is my data. 5:05:19 I've been looking at VAERS since day one of the rollout, December 17th, 2020. 5:05:28 And there was a death signal on January 30th, 2021, that was not deniable. 5:05:34 634 cases of death. 5:05:37 Now, last time I checked, you can't recover from death. 5:05:40 This is clearly showing that most of these deaths are occurring in our elders, but this makes sense because they were targeted first for the products. 5:05:49 So my question is, why did the early death signal not prompt similar action in the COVID shot context? 5:05:56 Because this is CDC data. 5:05:58 Theirs is owned by HHS and its daughter agencies, FDA and CDC. 5:06:04 One more thing about the U.S., and this is important. 5:06:07 They also have an HHS medical countermeasures injury compensation program, as Senator Johnson pointed out. 5:06:14 This is all they have. 5:06:16 And they themselves report that they received 13,333 COVID-19 claims, which was 27 times the claims in the program's first decade alone. 5:06:27 They completed a review of about one-fourth, and they only found that 3% were completed. 5:06:33 And those people were eligible for compensation. 5:06:37 That does not mean that they received compensation. 5:06:41 And as React19 point out, astonishingly, the CICP has rejected over 97% of the COVID-19 vaccine injury claims. 5:06:49 So this is a global problem from my point of view. 5:06:54 So this is a little bit of information that I found from an ATIP document, thanks to the people who got this to me, about the VISP or the VIAP program. 5:07:06 It is called a no-fault-based compensation program. 5:07:10 This was new to me. 5:07:11 I had no idea what this meant. 5:07:13 And here's the timeline. 5:07:15 So late 2020. 5:07:17 Group of people got together. 5:07:20 They wanted to design a no-fault vaccine injury compensation scheme in Canada. 5:07:25 In June 2021, they created VISP, which was formally launched. 5:07:29 This was run by a private contractor named Oxaro Inc. 5:07:33 funded by Ottawa, and in April 1st, 2026, more recently transitioned to 2viap, which is run by PPAC. 5:07:42 So there's a little bit of a conflict of interest there, if you ask me, because they authorize and promote these so-called vaccines. 5:07:50 They're the promoter and the payer. 5:07:53 Now, something that didn't surprise me, but annoyed me, 5:07:57 was to found out of the eligibility requirements, which means that somebody has to prove that they were seriously and permanently injured. 5:08:06 And as we've been hearing here today, I mean, that's almost impossible. 5:08:11 To establish causation in the first place is very difficult to do. 5:08:17 To do it in the face of agencies and individuals who refuse to acknowledge that even vaccine injury is a thing is even more difficult. 5:08:28 So what no fault from my understanding actually means is that proof of negligence is not required. 5:08:34 And it actually steers most of the injury claims away from lawsuits, which is very interesting to me. 5:08:43 So there's a bunch of money set aside by the Canadian government for people who can prove that they got injured and they can get some of that money. 5:08:52 And as far as I know, they've dealt out about 21 million so far, which is nothing. 5:08:58 What I thought was interesting within this 362-page document was that the design and the planning of this no-fault vaccine injury compensation program was all in secret. 5:09:14 I put the red box around secret, but these documents were labeled secret. 5:09:18 And I don't understand how or why that would have been done. 5:09:22 All of these plans were done behind closed doors. 5:09:26 And it was to, by their words, bring Canada in line with its G7 counterparts in the context of mandatory vaccines. 5:09:36 I'm going to go quickly through here. 5:09:39 The principled reasons to align with other countries like G7 countries in developing the NICP. 5:09:47 Well, if it's principled, then why was it redacted completely? 5:09:51 As was the Declaration of Conflict of Interest, as were the arguments against vaccine injury compensation, as were the final words. 5:10:00 All three pages of the conflicts of interest listed by the Canadian COVID-19 Vaccine Task Force members were redacted. 5:10:10 All of them. 5:10:12 One more thing. 5:10:13 This I thought was, again, very annoying but not surprising. 5:10:19 On page 330, there's a question, what is the government of Canada doing to address vaccine hesitancy? 5:10:26 So the World Health Organization identifies vaccine hesitancy as a threat. 5:10:32 This is their words. 5:10:33 The government of Canada made addressing this threat a priority. 5:10:38 And in early December 2020, PIHA consulted with all the other provinces and territories on the establishment of a pan-Canadian no-fault vaccine injury compensation program. 5:10:49 And they planned out in this 362 page document how to combat, that's their word, concerns of Canadian citizens. 5:10:58 And, you know, Theresa Tam was mentioned yesterday. 5:11:02 I was shocked Senator Johnson didn't know who she is, but she was first and foremost. 5:11:07 And at the front of this combating of misinformation campaign and the concerns of Canadian citizens, a lot of time and money was spent on studying this concept of vaccine hesitancy. 5:11:21 And this might shock you. 5:11:23 I was surprised by this. 5:11:25 A poll was done. 5:11:27 on September 11, 2020, and it showed that almost 60% of people were not the strong supporters of getting this COVID-19 shot. 5:11:38 They were polling people. 5:11:40 They were trying to figure out where Canadian citizens stood. 5:11:44 And they found out that they stood pretty firmly on the side of not getting it. 5:11:49 And that's why the campaign was launched. 5:11:52 This hesitancy idea needed to be obliterated. 5:11:57 Again, their words combating the concerns regarding vaccine hesitancy was a priority to those involved developing this compensation program. 5:12:09 Shockingly, this is the only available data that the regular person gets to have access to online. 5:12:18 And I can tell you with certainty that this total claims received number of 3,557 is an underestimate of the number of people who submitted claims. 5:12:30 And shockingly, only 252 were actually approved. 5:12:35 It's about 7% of the total that were received. 5:12:38 And this number is an underestimate. 5:12:42 I heard somebody mention that they went through the appeals process and it might disgust you to find out that of the 551 listed appeals that were received, only a fraction were assessed and even a smaller fraction were actually approved. 5:12:58 So only 30% were actually assessed and only 2% were approved. 5:13:06 This is the data that you can access online, which again, I heard a reference to that was underreported and it absolutely is. 5:13:14 And I'm going to show you why I think that. 5:13:18 So this represents all of the total adverse events reported and the serious adverse events, which includes death, hospitalization, an emergency room visit, a life-threatening illness, a birth defect or hospitalization. 5:13:33 These are serious conditions. 5:13:36 And according to PHAC and the CAFIS system and also Health Canada's Vigilance Program, these are the three sources of data that I found I could access something. 5:13:51 They found that one in 9,000 people reported a serious adverse event. 5:13:56 Now, that might not sound like a lot, but to me, that sounds like a lot. 5:14:00 Myocarditis and death on the right were both reported to be temporarily related to the shots. 5:14:08 Now, I wanted to show you guys something interesting. 5:14:12 The way that PHAC presents their data is per total doses, so approximately 102 million doses in Canadian data. 5:14:23 If you change that to people, so instead of per 102 million doses, 5:14:30 you have 32 million people approximately who got one or two shots. 5:14:36 It's interesting how the rate goes up. 5:14:39 So this is one of these little magic tricks that you can use when you present data. 5:14:44 You can either make it look better or worse, considering what your story is. 5:14:49 And I know how gross that sounds, but it happens all the time. 5:14:53 So they don't report it this way per person, and they might do that for a reason, but... 5:14:59 This is how they present it to the public. 5:15:02 I'm going to stick with the way that they do it in order to be consistent. 5:15:09 So VAERS, in short, Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, is a passive reporting system, which means that anybody can volunteer a report. 5:15:18 But as Senator Johnson correctly pointed out, about 67% are submitted by health practitioners and nurses. 5:15:26 And it serves as an early warning system or signaling system for adverse events not detected during pre-market testing or clinical trials. 5:15:34 And underreporting, as I stated, is a known imperfection. 5:15:38 This system is not perfect, but it's what we have because vaccines are liability free. 5:15:44 This is what we have. 5:15:46 And let me tell you, has it been used? 5:15:48 Oops. 5:15:52 So, again, there's a Lazarus study that Senator Johnson referenced that says it's 100 times unreported, underreported. 5:15:59 I would say it's closer to 30 in the context of the COVID shots. 5:16:04 So now I want to show you the difference between U.S. VAERS data and the Canadian data that I just showed you. Speaker 3
5:16:10 Can I just stop you and clarify? 5:16:11 Because when you're saying 30, it's based on this reporting on an app. Speaker 6
5:16:18 No, this is different. 5:16:18 This is VAERS. 5:16:20 So vSafe is separate. 5:16:21 That's the app. 5:16:22 And VAERS is the online reporting system. Speaker 3
5:16:25 Right. 5:16:25 But what I want to understand is I think earlier you said based on this app reporting, 5:16:34 you thought that VAERS was underreported about 27 but we we don't we're assuming then that there's that's compared to those two but how many people use that app and download that app i'm just curious if maybe the the study by harvard saying it's underreported by 100 might be correct Speaker 6
5:16:57 It could be, but that was in a different context. 5:16:59 My belief is that because COVID was global, everybody knows about it. 5:17:05 More people know about fares now. 5:17:07 I'd say the underreporting factor in the context of the COVID shots is closer to 30. 5:17:11 I've actually calculated this using Pfizer's phase three clinical trial data as well. 5:17:17 I got 31. 5:17:19 So it's in very strong alignment with my previous calculation. 5:17:25 But you never know. Speaker 3
5:17:26 No, and I'm just asking the question, and I understand that you have a PhD in computation. 5:17:31 No, no, it's not just that. Speaker 6
5:17:32 It's because I've been doing this for so long. 5:17:36 I dare say it's closer to 30, which is still gross, because when you multiply almost a million reports by 30, that's a lot. 5:17:45 So... 5:17:48 A lot of people say that the numbers are much higher in VAERS because it's over-reported and everybody knows about it. 5:17:57 These slides that I made today are going to blow all of those lies out of the water. 5:18:02 So this slide represents the fact that there are far more reports in VAERS in the US database than in Canada. 5:18:13 There are far more Americans than Canadians, but I'm gonna show you the rates. 5:18:18 These are rates actually right here. 5:18:21 So preliminary comparison, we can see Canada's low on the reporting scale. 5:18:29 US and Canadian citizens received the same product, so why aren't the reporting rates the same? 5:18:35 So let's focus on death reports. 5:18:38 Again, using CAFIS, PHAC, and HC's Vigilance Program. 5:18:42 The death rate is low. 5:18:44 So this is a rate. 5:18:46 This isn't numbers. 5:18:47 This is per 100,000 doses because I kept in line with PHAC's presentation. 5:18:53 And it's very clear here that from these two adverse event data collection systems, actually it's one versus three for Canada, the Canadian rate is really low. 5:19:04 And you might think, well, maybe VAERS is just high. 5:19:08 Maybe it's overestimation. 5:19:09 Who knows? 5:19:11 But it's interesting to note that where VAERS is passive, which means it's a volunteer reporting system and anybody can report, and they do, the Canadian systems are a hybrid of a passive and active system, which means that they're much more highly vetted and much more controlled on the front end and the back end. 5:19:34 Charles knows a lot about that system. 5:19:38 that process, anybody who's tried to submit an adverse event report in Canada can vouch for it being rejected or getting caught in the system. 5:19:53 It's really interesting when you look across the other pharmacovigilance databases around the world, the Dane in Australia, Univigilance in the EU and the Yellow Card system in the United Kingdom, that it still ranks the lowest. 5:20:10 VAERS is still up there, so it's probably about double the average of the other three. 5:20:17 But it begs a serious question as to why it's so much lower. 5:20:23 And there are possible logical reasons for this, like variations in how systems define and code and clean, or time window reports, under-reporting differences could be there. 5:20:35 But it's real interesting how in America, it's actually mandated by law that if you are a physician or nurse practitioner and you even suspect that somebody has an injury due to a vaccine, you are required by law to report that to VAERS. 5:20:54 They don't. 5:20:55 But, you know, Rochelle Walensky, who was the director of the CDC at the time, is on record stating this. 5:21:01 This is a fact. 5:21:02 You can go to prison if you don't. 5:21:04 You can also go to prison if you report a false adverse event to VAERS, by the way. 5:21:11 They make it look like they take this real seriously, and I'm just quoting what their rules are. 5:21:16 So that could explain why the data collection rate for death in the United States is higher, but it also indicates that it's probably more accurate. 5:21:28 So... 5:21:32 Here we go with another chart. 5:21:34 I hope you guys aren't scared by graphs. 5:21:36 These are very simple. 5:21:39 What I decided to do when I looked at the VAERS data, because we're lucky enough to have it go back to 1990, so we have a really nice baseline to refer to. 5:21:52 And I looked at the number of authorized vaccine types which you can see in green versus the number of adverse event reports in VAERS over time. 5:22:04 So I looked at 1990 to 2020 and I extended the number of vaccine types in this particular plot to 2025 so that you could see the continuing trend. 5:22:16 And maybe it doesn't look that obvious to a non-math person, but to me, it's obvious that these two lines track real well together. 5:22:26 They're both on a slight, you know, incline. 5:22:30 They're very proportional. 5:22:32 There's a proportional increase in the number of adverse events reported in relation to the number of products that has been increasing slowly over the years. 5:22:43 That's good. 5:22:44 But... 5:22:46 you know, just shows a relationship between the two, a correlation. 5:22:51 Now, something I thought I might do to help everybody understand what I'm about to show you is if the line, if the blue line, the number of adverse event reports in VAERS was continued in a quote unquote normal way in the context of the number of vaccine products that were added to the schedule or that were new authorized between 2021 and 2025, which would include the COVID shots, you'd kind of expect it to track 5:23:22 to about 53,000 reports. 5:23:23 You know, it would be a little bit higher than it was in 2020. Speaker 3
5:23:29 So that's your blue square? 5:23:30 That's the blue square that I just popped up. 5:23:33 Okay. Speaker 6
5:23:34 That's what we would expect. 5:23:36 Like we, in statistics, we have observed versus expected. 5:23:40 So a lot of the time you'll run a statistical test and you'll say, okay, this is what we expect and this is what we observed. 5:23:46 And you can make a conclusion. 5:23:48 So this isn't cut in stone. 5:23:51 This is just basically me as an investigator without bias saying, 5:23:58 making a predetermination as to what it might be if things were normal. 5:24:04 So are you ready? 5:24:06 This is what we get. 5:24:08 So in 2021 in VAERS, and I'm going to show you this in a much more clear graph on the next slide, we have a surge up to 753,047 reports in 2021. 5:24:22 it doesn't fit on any line. 5:24:24 This is an anomaly. 5:24:25 No matter if you're a data analyst or you're looking at pharmacovigilance databases or not, this is anomalous. 5:24:32 And this has yet to be explained by the owners of this data, which is HHS, CDC, and FDA. 5:24:41 So observation does not match expectation. 5:24:44 I'm gonna show you the clearer plot after I show you something else quite staggering. 5:24:54 And that's the conclusion. 5:24:57 So another thing that I've done in my years of studying this is I decided to put away any argument that this is just because, you know, there were more COVID shots rolled out. 5:25:10 Of course, there are going to be more reports. 5:25:13 So what I did was I timeframe matched the influenza vaccine data and the COVID-19 shot data by the number of adverse events and also the number of types of adverse events. 5:25:26 So when you submit a report to VAERS, you get assigned, or when you go to the doctor and they diagnose you with say myocarditis, you get assigned a metric code, which they submit to VAERS. 5:25:39 And of the metric codes you can choose between 5:25:43 Or you can choose up to 25,000 odd. 5:25:46 So myocarditis is a measure code. 5:25:50 That's going to be important when I show you what I'm about to show you. 5:25:53 So in about 462 days, I did this analysis back in March 2022. 5:25:58 There were 2.3 times more COVID shots doled out than influenza shots. 5:26:06 However, instead of a proportional increase, which you would expect if these things weren't more harmful, what we get is this. 5:26:16 So this is the total number of adverse events collected from VAERS for the COVID-19 shots versus influenza. 5:26:24 This is 118 times more. 5:26:27 That is not proportional. 5:26:29 That is anomalous. 5:26:31 That's a safety signal, if I ever saw a safety signal. 5:26:35 And probably even more concerning is that the number of adverse event types of the 25,000 that you can choose from went up 6.2 times when you compare it to flu. 5:26:48 This is a clear indication 5:26:50 of comprehensive damage, which is perfectly aligned with the fact that this is mostly, if you ask me, this is immunologically based damage. 5:27:03 Everybody's talking about autoimmune conditions, hematologic issues, brain issues. 5:27:09 This is all based in immunology going wrong, being offset for some reason. 5:27:17 every clinician I've spoken to, every pharmacist I've spoken to, every person who's injured I've spoken to has indicated that there's something very different about these shots, harm-wise, comprehensive injury-wise. 5:27:35 And I can tell you, there are almost 2 million reports in VAERS in the context of the COVID shots now. 5:27:42 And they range from chills to death and 5:27:47 everything in between. 5:27:50 So if the COVID shots were not more harmful than the influenza vaccines, these numbers would be proportional. 5:27:57 End of story. 5:28:00 So this is the chart that I showed you before. 5:28:02 This is my classic bungalow skyscraper plot that I call it. 5:28:07 So on the x-axis here, you have the years that VAERS has been on the go since 1990. 5:28:13 So like I said, we have this beautiful baseline. 5:28:16 This is their data, by the way. 5:28:18 I do nothing to this data. 5:28:20 I just present it. 5:28:21 The average number of adverse event reports per year for all vaccines combined up until 2020 was about 23,000, okay? 5:28:32 Easy peasy, normal, normal. 5:28:33 A few more products on the market, a few more types of adverse events, a few more adverse events. 5:28:38 Nothing anomalous. 5:28:41 Enter 2021. 5:28:44 We have this enormous surge of adverse event reports, whereby the average, even though people stopped getting the shots, let's hope, the average is still way above the baseline. 5:28:59 So there is absolutely nothing... 5:29:04 normal about this. 5:29:05 And again, I have to say this again, this has yet to be acknowledged by the owners of the data, which is why people like Senator Johnson, pardon me, are so important because he actually looks at bears in particular, and he recognizes this and he calls it out. 5:29:25 I'm sure if anything was going to be done with this data by them, but I hope so. 5:29:32 One more chart, which kind of proves the point. 5:29:34 This is a comparison of influenza vaccines from 2019 to remove the bias that might've been injected in 2020 and COVID-19 from 2021. 5:29:47 So it's a one year match. 5:29:49 This is per million doses. 5:29:51 So this is normalized data. 5:29:54 And there's a huge difference between the total reports, which is on the left 5:30:01 And the deaths on the right. 5:30:03 This is exactly what Senator Johnson was talking about yesterday. 5:30:07 There's nothing normal about this. 5:30:10 If death surging like this doesn't comprise a very loud and clear safety signal from this pharmacovigilance database, I don't know what does. 5:30:22 So it's not. 5:30:23 This completely puts to bed the idea that it's because there were more shots doled out. 5:30:29 It's not because of that. 5:30:32 You might be stunned to find out that there are a lot of Canadian adverse event reports in VAERS. 5:30:40 VAERS has two sets of data, the domestic data, which refers to the United States of America, and a foreign data set, which is just as large, which contains more than a million reports. 5:30:55 It's a massive file and it contains the data submitted by the manufacturers of the products like Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca directly to VAERS from people who are living abroad. 5:31:07 Perhaps they're American, perhaps they're not, but there are millions of these reports. 5:31:15 As per Canada, 5:31:18 There's a way to sift this data out because there are like 58 variables in VAERS that you can choose from. 5:31:24 One of them identifies the country of origin of the submitted adverse event report. 5:31:30 So there's almost 9,000 COVID shot related Canada source AEs reported to VAERS. 5:31:37 And as I was saying before, temporality is like the cornerstone of causation. 5:31:43 It's the first step to proving that you have, you know, a vaccine causing a specific adverse event. 5:31:51 These are serious adverse events here. 5:31:54 So this is a narrow form of the data. 5:31:57 And you can see that by day seven, there were like most of the people who reported their serious adverse event, and this includes death, happened before day seven. 5:32:10 This is a temporal signal. 5:32:11 I used exactly what CDC used before that caused the rotavirus vaccine to get pulled from the market. 5:32:19 I chose serious adverse events, and I went within a week. 5:32:23 And it's the same. 5:32:24 I mean, if I guess if it was 1998, maybe they would be doing something 5:32:31 So 43, this is another staggering thing that I found. 5:32:35 According to the VAERS handbook of any set of data that comes in, approximately 10 to 15% of those reports will be considered serious. 5:32:46 The ones that came in from Canada, almost half of them were considered serious. 5:32:51 This is anomalous in and of itself. 5:32:53 This is way above the baseline. 5:32:57 71% of Canadians reported an SAA within seven days of injection. 5:33:01 And this is in their data. 5:33:04 Like, I just saw this and I was like, what? 5:33:08 Does this comprise the adverse event reports that were reported by CAIFS and PHAC, et cetera? 5:33:13 Like, are they even aware of this? 5:33:16 Is there any crosstalk between these data sets? 5:33:21 Nobody knows. 5:33:24 So again, I used the CDC parameters for withdrawal from a vaccine of a vaccine. 5:33:30 And I showed that the number of serious adverse event reports after dose one, after dose one, one dose, five days to onset, which is seven days, is the major proportion, 65.4%. 5:33:46 So this is crazy. 5:33:48 That's exactly what you look for from a pharmacovigilance database to comprise a signal to follow up and do a causality assessment with the intent of pulling the product from a market if it's killing people. 5:34:02 Seems kind of obvious. 5:34:04 I'm almost done. 5:34:06 I have to address this, this millions of lives saved claim from the shots. 5:34:11 This is absolute, I can't swear, so I'll say boohickey. 5:34:16 And what most people won't have realized is that this thing, this statistic, this mantra that we hear is literally based on one peer-reviewed article, this article here. 5:34:32 There are a couple others, but this is the one where everyone gets this quotable statistic of 20 million people where deaths were prevented. 5:34:45 I'm a mathematical modeler. 5:34:47 I take great pride in all of my training and 5:34:53 not creating bias when you make your assumptions about your model, not interjecting anything when you go through your design or when you estimate your parameters. 5:35:03 But it's not an exact science. 5:35:05 It never has been. 5:35:06 All it can do is give you guidance to make potential predictions about future outcomes. 5:35:13 That's all a model can do. 5:35:15 This is a modeling study. 5:35:18 depending on what the IFR, the infection fatality rate was, which differed depending on demographic, it differed depending on variant, there were so many variables here that could be different that would make the outcome of this model, the conclusion of the study, different. 5:35:36 That it's worthless. 5:35:38 I mean, I'm sorry, authors. 5:35:40 I don't mean to offend you, but it might not even be your fault that this became, you know, the mantra of the world to support these shots being safe and effective. 5:35:56 Maybe you had nothing to do with it, but I really want to make sure that people know that next time somebody says, because the Legacy Union loves to revert to this, 5:36:05 Well, it saved millions. 5:36:06 No, no, it didn't. 5:36:08 There is nowhere that you can cite that proves that beyond a shadow of doubt. 5:36:14 This is based on a modeling study. 5:36:17 It's only an idea. 5:36:18 And you know what? 5:36:21 I'll take it one step further. 5:36:23 If you actually wanted to prove to someone that the shots are killing people, if you tried to do that using one modeling paper, you would get laughed out of the door. 5:36:33 I'm sorry I'm getting a little bit testy, but like, yeah, it's, all of this really annoys me because the data is here and the data is clear. 5:36:44 And none of this needed to happen. 5:36:45 And it happened for a reason by people who knew. 5:36:50 So pharmacovigilance, I will defend it. 5:36:53 It's extremely important. 5:36:55 It's kind of like a real world phase four trial. 5:36:58 So after your clinical trials, your one, two, threes, which aren't supposed to be overlapped, which they were for Pfizer, and they aren't supposed to be rushed. 5:37:08 You have to look at what's happening in a larger demographic of people when you administer the product. 5:37:14 You have to monitor because maybe because your exclusion criteria list was so long, you didn't represent a certain population like pregnant women in your trial. 5:37:27 So you have to monitor this. 5:37:30 COVID-19 quote-unquote vaccines are liability-free now. 5:37:35 I think that was the target. 5:37:37 So there's no impetus or motive to make them safe. 5:37:41 That's a fact. 5:37:43 They're not. 5:37:44 They're not effective and they're not safe. 5:37:45 And I could talk for another three hours about why they're not effective. 5:37:49 And by the way, somebody should prompt me at the end of this to talk about the DNA contamination issue. Speaker 3
5:37:55 And actually, I'm going to ask that we stay away from that because we haven't had time to review what you want to say. 5:38:00 No problem. 5:38:01 So we want to end, but probably we've got about five minutes left. Speaker 6
5:38:05 I'm done. Speaker 3
5:38:05 So, okay. Speaker 6
5:38:08 You guys can read this. 5:38:12 I just want to end by saying pharmacovigilance signal that is undercounted or ignored and thinly compensated when recognized is incomplete public health policy. 5:38:22 And that's what this has all been about. 5:38:24 It's always been about, well, you have to do it for your health. 5:38:29 You have to do it for others. 5:38:30 You have to do the greater good. 5:38:33 No. 5:38:34 None of this was about public health policy. 5:38:36 This was about investments and stock markets and a wealth transfer that we've never seen the likes of, if you ask me. 5:38:46 And the really hard part to swallow is all the casualties along the way. 5:38:52 You know, there are some people who make claims that I don't really stand by, that they're, you know, the quote-unquote, they're trying to kill us. 5:39:00 Maybe they are. 5:39:02 But, I mean... 5:39:04 It doesn't matter because the casualty list is so high now. 5:39:08 It might as well be that way. 5:39:11 I really have to wonder where the care in health care has gone, if it was ever there, because I don't see it. Speaker 9
5:39:26 I clicked the wrong button. Speaker 6
5:39:27 That's it for me. 5:39:30 I do this for the injured. 5:39:33 I'm doing this for humanity because I think we're actually in an existential crisis right now. 5:39:42 And when they do this again, because I believe that they will, just say no. 5:39:49 Hold on to your national and personal sovereignty and just say no. 5:39:53 Assert yourself. 5:39:55 You have support. 5:39:57 Trust me. Speaker 1
5:40:01 Thank you, Doctor. 5:40:02 Does anyone have any questions? 5:40:05 We had a question the other day about the self-reporting. 5:40:09 Sean, remember we were talking about it went offline before. 5:40:12 Is that actually true? 5:40:13 Yeah. Speaker 3
5:40:15 Yeah, so what, Jessica, Dr. Rose, what Mr. Allison is speaking about is, so before with our, just Health Canada's regular adverse reaction reporting system, pre-COVID, so pre-COVID, it was online. 5:40:32 And a doctor could just go online and fill it in. 5:40:35 A citizen could go online and fill it in because the idea was, well, it's meant to be an early warning system, like you say, not be evidence of causation, but to raise a flag that, hey, maybe we should be looking at causation here and very quickly. 5:40:52 Well, so that disappeared shortly before COVID. 5:40:56 It's back now, but it disappeared. 5:40:59 So 5:41:00 During the COVID period, Canadians could not submit to online. 5:41:05 And then also they created a system where now you had to submit to a provincial board. 5:41:12 As we had Dr. Hoff speak at the press conference. 5:41:16 So it seems to me that actually that's how you short circuit an early warning system is you put barriers between the doctor or the patient and the reporting system. 5:41:28 And that might be one explanation as to why we had, you know, not the only explanation, but one explanation for why there's less reports of canon. Speaker 6
5:41:39 Well, that also requires pre-thought. 5:41:45 That had to have been done with intention. Speaker 28
5:41:53 Thank you very much for your presentation. 5:41:54 It's quite stunning. 5:41:58 as far as the number of cases that were reported compared to regular years. 5:42:05 You mentioned January 2021, and it's interesting because I had one constituent that came to me. 5:42:14 Her name was Francie Duprone, and she said that her mother 5:42:20 In January 2021, 79 years old, she took a Moderna vaccine and within 10 minutes had difficulty breathing. 5:42:29 And they administered two EpiPens and couldn't save her. 5:42:33 She died within 15 minutes. 5:42:35 She died? 5:42:35 Died, yes. 5:42:36 And from severe athletic shock, despite never having had an allergic reaction in the past. 5:42:44 And so it's... 5:42:46 Yeah, this is just one of the many cases. 5:42:48 So I just want to appreciate just the information that you're bringing forth right now. 5:42:54 It's important. Speaker 6
5:42:55 It's very important. 5:42:57 I hope I filled some gaps. 5:42:59 I bet you I could tell you that lot number. 5:43:04 There is a full awareness. 5:43:07 within the agencies and the manufacturers, if you ask me, of all of this. 5:43:11 And again, not to revert to what Senator Johnson was saying, but he's absolutely right. 5:43:18 I am always thinking to myself, like, these guys must be pooing their pants right now with all of this data coming in, because they're the ones manufacturing the products. 5:43:29 They're the ones, they're not liable. 5:43:32 But what about their consciences? 5:43:34 Like, 5:43:35 What about their kids? 5:43:37 Like, how do they, I don't understand that part of it. 5:43:42 Like, how do they keep doing it? 5:43:46 Like, you can be forgiven for making a mistake if you ask for forgiveness, if you're honest, if you tell the truth. 5:43:52 But if you know that you're doing something bad and it's hurting people and you keep doing it, it's malice. 5:44:01 Like, I don't get that part. Speaker 1
5:44:05 Okay, we're almost out of time, but Mr. Mahal, you wanted to ask a question. Speaker 25
5:44:10 Thank you, doctor, first of all, for all the detailed research and facts that you have presented to the committee. 5:44:16 You mentioned that there is a parallel legislation, there is a legislation in the U.S. that mandates the nurses and other medical professionals to report these kinds of vaccine injuries. 5:44:28 And I practiced law for about 12 years before jumping into this role. 5:44:32 We had a legislation, it's called Child, Youth and Family Enhancement in Alberta that mandates the legal professionals, anyone who comes in contact with the children, and they believe that there is a harm or there is a threat that they need to report to the authorities and they take it from there. 5:44:48 Yet we see all the witnesses or many of the witnesses, they were in fact being pushed back by the professionals, by the specialist to not report it or not acknowledge that these are vaccine injuries. 5:45:02 So not only that we need to have a parallel legislation in Canada that mandates, I'm not going into the conscious of, you mentioned on the conscious party, on the manufacturers, but what you think needs to be done in regards to a legislation that would not, in fact, force the specialist, even though who wants to come up and help, would not force them to go into hide. 5:45:28 Rather, it would require them to say, 5:45:31 Report it to encourage the victims to report it and come forward and participate in all these fact findings. Speaker 6
5:45:41 What do I think would help? 5:45:43 All this guilt tripping has to stop. 5:45:46 I just don't see how, like, I have to think of it from the top. 5:45:52 It's everybody's afraid from either side of the fence to report or the doctors are afraid to report. 5:45:59 Even in the States, they're legally mandated to do so. 5:46:02 They're not. 5:46:02 They're not. 5:46:03 They just refuse. 5:46:06 They're off the hook because when your mind doesn't believe in vaccine injury, if you don't believe that it's real and a patient comes to you, even in anaphylactic shock, and they say they just had a vaccine, if you don't believe that that's a thing, then you'll probably deny them and then you're not culpable. 5:46:25 You don't have to report. 5:46:26 So... 5:46:28 It's like it has to come from the top. 5:46:30 Like we have to stop being... From your point of view, how can we change that status quo then? Speaker 25
5:46:36 What should be done to change that status quo? Speaker 3
5:46:38 This kind of thing... Can I interject? 5:46:40 I'm sorry, but it's just I don't want to tell a witness at the end that they can't testify. 5:46:44 So especially a vaccine agent who's at the end of the day. 5:46:48 So I've got... Oh, fine. 5:46:50 We've just got to kind of... 5:46:50 But I do want to... 5:46:52 Dr. Rose, thank you for coming. 5:46:54 And I hope that the inquiry and public understands you did some original research for this. 5:46:59 Yeah. 5:47:00 And so this is some of this data. 5:47:02 It's being presented for the first time at, you know, great work. 5:47:06 And Dr. Rose traveled an enormous distance to be here in person. 5:47:11 And we think as we asked you if you would come in person and we understand that it was a huge inconvenience. 5:47:18 But we are thankful to have you. 5:47:19 And I assure you that this has been very valuable. 5:47:23 Thank you. Speaker 6
5:47:23 Thank you for having me. Speaker 3
5:47:25 Dr. Rose, thank you very much. 5:47:26 We do appreciate it. 5:47:30 So our next witness is James Freeland. 5:47:34 James, can you take the Bible in your right hand there? 5:47:41 James, do you swear, I'm sorry, James Freeland, do you swear to tell the whole truth? 5:47:47 Nothing but the truth. 5:47:48 So help you God. Speaker 22
5:47:50 Actually, Speaker 3
5:47:53 Again? 5:47:54 Yes, I do. 5:47:55 And you can leave that on. 5:47:56 So your mother's name is Donna Lee Stevens Freeland. 5:48:06 Correct. 5:48:07 But you refer to her as my ma. 5:48:10 My ma, yeah. 5:48:11 And your mother did not have COVID. 5:48:13 You're going to describe something that happened, but she was being tested. 5:48:17 This is not COVID. 5:48:19 Can you tell us about your mother? 5:48:22 who I will call Donna Lee Stevens, or Donna, let's call her Donna, and you can call her Ma. Speaker 26
5:48:28 I'll call her Ma. 5:48:29 Yeah, so she was my Ma. 5:48:31 My Ma was a single mother, raised me, right? 5:48:34 And she did not have COVID. 5:48:40 She was a law-abiding citizen, always listened to the government, you know, listened to everything that had to be done right, and, you know, did everything by the books. 5:48:48 And when this pandemic came into effect, you know, she was... 5:48:51 really into doing what was told to be done. 5:48:57 And when it got down to it, and, you know, it was really down to the nitty gritty, and it was all about getting the shots. 5:49:05 And, you know, it was all over the news about you have to get it done to protect everybody. 5:49:09 And I myself have, I have multiple sclerosis, so I'm immune compromised. 5:49:14 And 5:49:15 When they started talking about that and, you know, you've got to protect people that are immune compromised, she was really scared to, you know, affect me in any kind of way. 5:49:25 So she was talking about getting it. 5:49:27 Well, I was getting it first. Speaker 3
5:49:29 Before we go there, I just want you to describe who she was a little more. 5:49:32 Who she was? 5:49:33 Yeah. 5:49:34 As a person? 5:49:35 Yeah, because when you and I were talking, you had some really beautiful things to say about her. Speaker 26
5:49:40 Oh, my mind. Speaker 3
5:49:40 And I'm hoping that you can help us to understand that. Speaker 26
5:49:43 My mom was an amazing woman. 5:49:46 Again, like I said, she was a single mother and she raised me with love, passion, compassion. 5:49:56 And, you know, she worked all her life and she put her everything into me. 5:50:04 I grew up in what some people would call a ghetto. 5:50:06 I guess you would call it a separate housing type deal. 5:50:10 And she did everything that she could do to ensure that I didn't become a statistic or become something that, you know, unsavoury character, I guess you can call it. 5:50:21 And it worked. 5:50:22 I became a hardworking person. 5:50:24 And, you know, she did everything she could do in life to make me a happy person, to make our lives happy. 5:50:33 And, you know, she... 5:50:37 She just was an amazing person. 5:50:39 She was a person that made everybody happy around her. 5:50:42 She was the life of the party, made everybody smile. 5:50:46 And, you know, there wasn't anything that she couldn't do. 5:50:50 She was my mentor. 5:50:51 She was my, she taught me how to love. 5:50:55 She taught me how to, you know, be fearful, be not fearful. 5:51:01 And, you know, taught me how to be tough and, you know, taught me all the things, how to get through life. Speaker 3
5:51:06 You also described her to me as kind and loving. 5:51:10 Oh, she was extremely kind and loving. 5:51:12 Extremely. 5:51:13 And you also described to me that before what you're going to describe, you know, she had had type 2 diabetes, but she was very well managed. 5:51:21 Yes. 5:51:23 She had really no limitations on her life? 5:51:26 No, she had no limitations. 5:51:27 Okay. 5:51:28 Can we pull up, you sent a couple of photos that I'd like to show, just so that people can see who 5:51:34 Your mom. 5:51:35 So she's the one there holding the puppy. 5:51:37 Holding the puppy. Speaker 26
5:51:37 That's my mom, Donna. 5:51:38 Yeah. 5:51:39 She's always got a smile on her face and usually always has her friends with her. 5:51:43 They're smiling with her. 5:51:46 Yeah. 5:51:47 And that's her dog, Dudley. 5:51:49 She always had a fond fascination with her puppy. 5:51:52 I was her only child. 5:51:53 So when she did have her dog, that was her other child. 5:51:58 So 5:51:59 Right. 5:52:00 Well, I hope there wasn't too much competition. 5:52:02 Not at all. 5:52:03 I got a bit once in a while. Speaker 3
5:52:05 But this was an important picture because she's laughing and smiling and those around her. 5:52:10 And that was a characteristic of her, wasn't it? 5:52:12 Just a real joy and happiness. 5:52:14 Absolutely. 5:52:15 Every day. 5:52:17 And can we go to the next picture? 5:52:19 And this is this is you and her. Speaker 26
5:52:21 That's me and her. 5:52:21 That's when my son was born. 5:52:23 She came. 5:52:23 I lived in Edmonton. 5:52:24 She came from all the way from Ontario to Edmonton. 5:52:27 That's my son was 11 days old. 5:52:30 And yeah, she came out there and saved up all her money. 5:52:34 She was a hardworking cashier and she came out there to visit me to introduce, so I can introduce her to my son, her grandson. Speaker 3
5:52:47 So, and just as far as, I'll just introduce you. 5:52:52 Well, no, let's just go into her experience. 5:52:55 Tell us what happened. Speaker 26
5:52:58 Well, like I said, I'm immunocompromised, so it started off with that. 5:53:04 It started off with a bunch of, you know, the commercials and, you know, Trudeau and all the different commercials of, you know, you've got to get tested. 5:53:14 You've got to get the vaccine. 5:53:17 You've got to protect everybody else. 5:53:19 You've got to protect the immunocompromised and all the commercials coming out saying, you know, 5:53:23 uh, if you're 65 and older, the older group's going to get it first. 5:53:28 Um, if you're immunocompromised, you'll get a special number, uh, to go with the older groups. 5:53:33 Uh, my mom kept calling me, telling me, you got to go get it done. 5:53:36 You got to go get it done. 5:53:37 And, you know, I was iffy at the, at, at the beginning, just like the, the fella earlier was, uh, iffy because, you know, it was being rolled out too fast. 5:53:45 There was way too many, uh, 5:53:47 things that weren't lining up for me. 5:53:49 I'm a very observant and curious person, so it just wasn't lining up for me at first. 5:53:56 And she was being very adamant about me getting it because of my immunocompromised situation. 5:54:06 As a matter of fact, I got a phone call from our public health unit, and I don't know how they got my number. 5:54:13 I don't know how it happened, but they told me that I have a special number to get. 5:54:17 to go for this shot. 5:54:19 I said, I'm not really interested right now. 5:54:22 And I was, uh, considered a, um, what do they call that? 5:54:26 A worker, um, essential, essential worker. 5:54:29 Uh, so I was working seven days a week, 12 hour shifts. 5:54:32 Uh, it was a health and safety worker. 5:54:34 And, um, 5:54:36 So I said, no, I really don't have the time, you know, and this and that. 5:54:39 And so they called me again two days later and told me, like, you know, if I don't do it, they told me that I was going to die if I catch it. 5:54:46 That's exact words that they told me. 5:54:49 And so it kind of put fear in my eyes, in my heart. 5:54:52 I have a son, you know, I didn't want to do that. 5:54:54 So I went and got a shot. 5:54:56 So since I got the shot, that made my mom go get the shot. 5:55:04 So she went and got her first shot. 5:55:07 I got my first shot. 5:55:08 After I got my shot, my whole arm was limp. 5:55:11 I couldn't use my arm for the first day. 5:55:13 I couldn't use it. 5:55:14 It was not usable. 5:55:16 She got her shot, first shot, I don't know, it was a couple weeks later. 5:55:20 She had the same effect. 5:55:21 She couldn't use her arm for the first day. 5:55:23 So I said, ah, it's me too, Ma. 5:55:25 You know what I mean? 5:55:25 Like the same thing. 5:55:26 But it went away after 24 hours, you know, and it was fine. 5:55:31 I went to go get my second shot. 5:55:33 I don't know, I can't remember, three weeks later or whatever it was, they scheduled it. 5:55:38 She also had to get her shot three weeks, second shot three weeks later. 5:55:42 My second shot, I didn't feel not too much. 5:55:45 There wasn't anything wrong with me. 5:55:48 She went to go get her second shot and she went in on July 5th. 5:55:58 And I had called her that morning because my girlfriend at the time's birthday was on July 7th. 5:56:05 And we had planned to go for dinner on July 7th. 5:56:09 And her, I'm sorry, my mom and her fiance were going to come with us for dinner. 5:56:15 So I had called her on July 5th to ensure that she was still coming. 5:56:20 Oh, yeah, James. 5:56:21 She used to call me James. 5:56:23 She said, yeah, we're going to come. 5:56:24 I'm just going to go for my shot there, and I'll call you when I'm done. 5:56:28 I said, okay, Mom, I'll be at work. 5:56:30 If I don't get the call, please just call back or leave a message. 5:56:38 She did call me, but when she called me, she called me right when she got the shot, and I did answer. 5:56:46 She said, James, I'm not feeling good. 5:56:47 I don't feel good at all. 5:56:49 And I said, what do you mean, Mom? 5:56:51 Like, what are you doing? 5:56:52 She says, I just got my shot. 5:56:54 And I said, well, what do you mean? 5:56:55 Where are you? 5:56:56 She says, I'm at the Carmichael Arena. 5:56:59 And I'm like, well, what are you doing? 5:57:01 And she says, well, I'm in the 15-minute waiting for the observation. 5:57:05 And I said, well, do you tell the nurse? 5:57:08 Are you telling the nurse? 5:57:09 She says, yeah, she says it's normal. 5:57:12 And I said, what are you feeling? 5:57:12 Like, Mom, she said, my heart's racing. 5:57:15 I feel... 5:57:16 there's so much anxiety i'm sweating like crazy i'm nauseous i don't feel good jame i don't feel good i'm like well what are they telling you and she said just to wait it out i got 15 minutes and i said well ma tell her like you're really bad you don't feel like this you never feel like this she said that she did she's telling the lady that the nurse that she's feeling like this the nurse is saying it's fine it's just a common side effect you'll feel better it's just gonna go away it's 5:57:44 After the 15 minutes, it got worse. 5:57:48 They told her that she could leave. 5:57:51 She left. 5:57:52 She got home. 5:57:53 No, she called you on the way home, though, didn't she? 5:57:57 Yes. 5:57:58 She called me on the way home. 5:57:59 She said it's getting worse. 5:58:00 Then she got home. 5:58:03 I called her again. 5:58:04 She said, Jim, I'm not feeling good at all. 5:58:07 I'm going to go lay down. 5:58:08 I'm going to go rest. 5:58:09 I'm going to see if I can rest this off. 5:58:12 I talked to Jim, her partner. 5:58:14 He says, yeah, Jim, she doesn't look good. 5:58:16 You know, she's not feeling good. 5:58:17 She's going to go lay down. 5:58:18 I'll call you around supper, you know. 5:58:21 So after work, I called her again. 5:58:24 She was asleep. 5:58:25 Well, not sleeping, but in bed, not feeling good. 5:58:27 So I said, Jim, what's going on? 5:58:29 She said, I don't know, Jim. 5:58:30 She's just not feeling good. 5:58:31 Can't get out of the washrooms, constantly puking, constantly getting sick, you know, diarrhea. 5:58:36 I said, Jim, you got to call the hospital. 5:58:38 You got to go to the doctors. 5:58:39 And at that time, because of the peak of the pandemic, 5:58:42 They didn't want you to go to the hospital. 5:58:44 They didn't want anybody to go to the hospital unless you were severely sick. 5:58:49 And I was a health and safety officer at the time. 5:58:52 So I had COVID tests for my guys at work. 5:58:57 So I took COVID tests home and I put them on her doorstep. 5:59:02 So I said, you have to test it to see if she has COVID. 5:59:04 I don't know what it is, but see if she has COVID. 5:59:07 So I put them on her doorstep and I drove home. 5:59:12 And he tested her. 5:59:14 She didn't have COVID. 5:59:15 It came up negative for COVID. 5:59:18 And when I went home that night, that's the fifth of that night. 5:59:24 The next day I called again. 5:59:28 She is worse. 5:59:29 She is barely has any energy. 5:59:33 She's nauseous, fever, can't get out of bed. 5:59:38 Like, 5:59:40 diarrhea, having accidents in her pants, calls the hospital, they tell them not to bring her in. 5:59:47 They say, don't bring her in, we have an influx of COVID cases, you know, it's not, you can't bring her in. 5:59:54 What do we do? 5:59:56 Keep her comfortable, you know, hydrate her and all that kind of stuff, keep her fever, do COVID tests, we've done a COVID test, she doesn't have COVID. 6:00:05 Okay, well then just 6:00:07 you know, treat it as like the flu type symptoms and get rest, fluids. 6:00:14 We did that throughout the day. 6:00:17 Nothing changed. 6:00:18 It got worse. 6:00:18 It got worse and it got worse and it got worse. 6:00:25 I called throughout the day, talked to my mom. 6:00:27 She was not getting any better. 6:00:31 On the seventh morning, I had called. 6:00:35 I went to work. 6:00:37 I called my mom. 6:00:38 I said, hey, mom, do you think you guys are going to come out to dinner tonight? 6:00:42 Just call in to check. 6:00:45 I'd never heard her sound so weak before in my life. 6:00:48 And she said, no, James, I don't think we can. 6:00:50 I don't think we'll make it. 6:00:52 Okay, ma. 6:00:54 That's no problem. 6:00:58 I called about 6:01:00 2 o'clock to Jim to see how he was, like, how the things were going. 6:01:03 She's not too good, Jim. 6:01:04 I don't think she's doing well, like, you know, this and that. 6:01:07 I don't want to worry you or anything, but it's not getting any better. 6:01:10 It looks like it's getting worse. 6:01:12 I said, okay, Jim, we have to figure something out. 6:01:15 We got to do something. 6:01:16 I don't know how it's going to go. 6:01:18 What are we going to do? 6:01:20 I get home from work that night. 6:01:24 I don't know. 6:01:25 It was probably about an hour or two later. 6:01:27 I get the phone call. 6:01:28 Uh, Jamie, you got to come to the hospital. 6:01:30 You got to go to the hospital right now. 6:01:31 The ambulance is here. 6:01:32 They're bringing your mom to the hospital. 6:01:36 And then I was racing me and my son were racing the hospital. 6:01:38 I get a phone call. 6:01:40 They, my, uh, Jim tells me, don't go to the hospital, come to the house. 6:01:43 They're working on your mom in the ambulance. 6:01:45 I get to the house and for about 20 minutes, they're working on my mom in the ambulance. 6:01:50 And then, Speaker 3
6:01:52 I just want to slow you down here. 6:01:54 So you drive to your mother's house. 6:01:56 My son actually drove. 6:01:57 I was too hysteric. 6:02:00 Okay. 6:02:02 And the ambulance is there. Speaker 26
6:02:04 Yeah, the ambulance is working on my mom in the back. Speaker 3
6:02:06 And it's just sitting there. Speaker 3
6:02:09 You're a health and safety guy. Speaker 3
6:02:11 You know what that means. Speaker 26
6:02:12 I do know what that means. Speaker 3
6:02:14 What's going through your mind? Speaker 26
6:02:16 My mom's dead. 6:02:18 I know exactly what that means. 6:02:20 I'm not only just a health and safety guy, I was a rescuer for 17 years. 6:02:25 So I know exactly what that means. 6:02:27 And when that ambulance left, they left through construction. 6:02:31 They didn't come the shortest way. 6:02:35 We went through the shortest way, they left through construction. 6:02:38 I also know what that means. 6:02:42 So I knew right then and there. 6:02:46 And the other thing is when I got to the hospital, 6:02:52 And the doctor came and told me that she had passed. 6:02:58 I asked what she had passed from. Speaker 10
6:03:02 He said a heart hit to the heart. Speaker 26
6:03:05 I said, what does that mean? 6:03:07 Did she have a heart attack? 6:03:09 No, sir. 6:03:10 She didn't have a heart attack. 6:03:12 What did she have? 6:03:14 Heart hit to the heart. 6:03:16 What does that mean? 6:03:19 I don't know, son, it's a hard hit to the heart. 6:03:21 What is that? 6:03:23 And I'm bawling at the time and I'm crying. 6:03:25 And he said, son, it was just a hard hit to the heart. 6:03:29 I said, I'm not an idiot. 6:03:30 You can tell me what it is. 6:03:32 Like what's going to be on the death certificate? 6:03:36 You know, and he said, son, it's a hard hit to the heart. 6:03:38 And he started walking away from me. 6:03:40 And I 6:03:41 grabbed him on the shoulder and I turned him around and I said, what did my mother die of? 6:03:47 She was 60 years old, type 2 diabetes, nothing else wrong with her and died two days after the shot. 6:03:54 You tell me what's wrong with her. 6:03:57 And then I asked for an autopsy and he refused and he said that they will not do an autopsy unless law enforcement or suspicious circumstances. 6:04:08 And then he walked away. 6:04:10 And then I had my mom's ashes in my hands in less than 24 hours during the height of pandemic. 6:04:17 24 hours? Speaker 8
6:04:18 Less than 24 hours. Speaker 26
6:04:26 How does that happen? 6:04:27 You tell me. 6:04:28 I've never had, I have ashes from other friends and family that I've never even gotten in less than three days. Speaker 10
6:04:39 What's been the most difficult part of this? Speaker 26
6:04:41 My mom's ashes are still on in the house because I can't bury them because I know who murdered my mother and I can't do nothing about it. 6:04:53 That's not my character. 6:04:56 You don't even understand, man. 6:05:00 My mom was the only thing I had in my life. 6:05:06 And because of some stupid scandemic... 6:05:09 I don't have my mother. 6:05:10 I don't have my pillar anymore. 6:05:15 I don't have the one thing in my life. 6:05:23 All because a whole hierarchy of bullshit happened in this world. 6:05:30 Because some people in this world decided other things were more important. 6:05:37 And they decided to put fear in people's lives and put people in harm's way all because I don't even know. 6:05:48 Nobody knows. 6:05:50 Right? 6:05:50 And everything's in secrecy. 6:05:52 I lost my job because of it. 6:05:56 I can't even talk because of it. 6:05:58 This is the most I've ever been able to speak about it. 6:06:01 Okay? 6:06:03 Okay? 6:06:04 I can't even talk to my friends about it. 6:06:06 I can't talk to family about it. 6:06:08 I can't talk to any about it. 6:06:09 And now I'm acting a fool in front of court and parliament about it. 6:06:14 Okay? 6:06:14 My mom was the only thing that I had in life. 6:06:19 All right? 6:06:20 I don't have a dad. 6:06:21 I don't have brothers and sisters. 6:06:23 I don't have nothing. 6:06:24 Okay? 6:06:27 This is what I got. 6:06:28 You want to talk about VESP and all this other stuff? 6:06:31 Just like every other government crap, it's crap. 6:06:35 It's just a facade. 6:06:36 It's propaganda. 6:06:37 It's bull crap. 6:06:38 I called and I tried to get that stuff done. 6:06:41 You know what they told me? 6:06:43 You don't have evidence. 6:06:44 There's no evidence for you. 6:06:45 Your mother's dead. 6:06:47 No doctors. 6:06:48 I don't have a doctor to sign anything. 6:06:51 That doctor that declared who's not going to sign nothing, 6:06:56 You know what I mean? 6:06:57 So what am I left with? 6:06:59 I'm left with crying every frigging night. 6:07:03 I'm left with a son that doesn't have his nanny anymore that they had to bond with. 6:07:10 I'm sorry. 6:07:11 You know what I mean? 6:07:13 I just, I'm sorry. 6:07:15 I thought I was going to be more clear. Speaker 3
6:07:18 James May, no one apologized here for being a human being. Speaker 10
6:07:25 I'm sorry. 6:07:26 Yeah. Speaker 1
6:07:32 i tried to sorry no you you've done a wonderful job james i'll just uh i'll leave with thank you for sharing your story we we get how painful it is completely understand and 6:07:57 You know, we believe that we need to be able to talk about this publicly, right? 6:08:00 Yep. 6:08:01 We can't make any progress if we're not allowed to talk about it. 6:08:04 And so the whole purpose of this is to really give people permission to speak publicly. 6:08:10 And then maybe somewhere down the road, we can start getting some answers. 6:08:13 Yes, sir. 6:08:14 But you show tremendous courage to come in here. 6:08:18 And I can't even imagine your loss, but I do want to thank you for taking the time to share with us. 6:08:25 Thank you. Speaker 3
6:08:38 Thank you, James. 6:08:40 And I'm going to go to our next witness now. 6:08:47 And it's hard to transition from one witness to another. Speaker 10
6:08:49 They're all so special today. Speaker 3
6:09:02 So our... 6:09:04 Next witness is Mary Lou Lavallee. Speaker 3
6:09:09 Mary, will you take the Bible in your right hand, please? 6:09:13 So Mary Lou Lavallee, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God? Speaker 11
6:09:21 I do, so help me God. Speaker 3
6:09:26 Now, you're here to speak about your husband, Dominic. Speaker 11
6:09:33 Yes, I am. Speaker 3
6:09:34 I'm just going to very briefly introduce you and then invite you to speak and tell us about Dominic. 6:09:42 So you've been, you're 53 now, and you've been 33 years in the aviation industry, right? 6:09:50 From stewardess to now you're involved in flight operations, document and client management. 6:09:57 You were, you married, you were married to Dominic for 23 years. 6:10:01 Correct. 6:10:03 And you and Dominic were high school sweethearts. Speaker 11
6:10:07 I've known him since grade school, grade six. 6:10:10 I remember when I first met him, he had that twinkle and sparkle in his eye then, and he had it into adulthood. Speaker 3
6:10:21 And actually, maybe can we pull up the photos? 6:10:24 We might as well start with photos. 6:10:26 So this is your marriage to Dominic, your high school sweetheart. 6:10:32 And 6:10:34 What year is this, 23 years ago? Speaker 11
6:10:36 This was September 12, 1998. 6:10:38 It would have been our 28th wedding anniversary this upcoming Saturday. 6:10:45 We were married for 23 years. 6:10:47 We dated for nine years. 6:10:50 And we had a beautiful son, great marriage. 6:10:55 And when I look at that picture, it brings me joy. 6:11:00 It was one of the best days of my life. 6:11:04 We were happy, we were in love, we were young and we're ready to build our future and our life together. Speaker 10
6:11:14 Can we go to the next photo? 6:11:18 Tell us about this photo. Speaker 11
6:11:24 People used to call us three musketeers. 6:11:27 We had one child, Michael. 6:11:30 here with me today being my support and my rock and i so appreciate him appreciate him being here today um i worked in the airline industry and we we love to travel especially dominic he loved to see the world and he loved the perks and it was the three of us and we enjoyed life to the fullest we worked really hard um we were humble people we came from humble beginnings and uh 6:11:59 We didn't sweat the small stuff. 6:12:00 We just enjoyed life. 6:12:02 We liked to have a lot of good friends, a lot of good family around us. 6:12:06 And that's who we were. 6:12:08 We were just good people. 6:12:09 We still are. 6:12:11 Well-rounded people. Speaker 3
6:12:13 Let's go to the next photo. 6:12:17 When was this taken? 6:12:18 Because I see Michael's getting older. Speaker 11
6:12:20 Yeah, he is. 6:12:22 Every year around Thanksgiving, it was a tradition. 6:12:24 We'd go apple picking. 6:12:26 with my sister and her family, and we look forward to it. 6:12:30 Buy some great apple homemade pies at the local market, and I have this picture in my bedroom. 6:12:40 He was my protector, and I look at that picture with his arms around me, just protecting me. 6:12:45 That's what he did. 6:12:46 That's what he did for everybody, not only for his family and his son and for me, the loves of his life, but 6:12:54 That's who he was. 6:12:55 And just big, strong man. 6:13:00 And I miss him every day. 6:13:02 Every day. Speaker 3
6:13:06 And can we go to the next picture? 6:13:08 What's this a picture? Speaker 11
6:13:11 That's a hard picture. 6:13:13 Hard picture. 6:13:16 That was him in the ICU. 6:13:17 May 18th, 2021. 6:13:24 And, you know, Sean, and I'm not sure why I took that shot. 6:13:28 I don't know. 6:13:30 The ICU nurse at the time said, you know what, take off your, I know it was, she knew it wasn't protocol. 6:13:37 And she said, take off your gloves and just make him feel you. 6:13:41 Make him feel your hand on him. 6:13:45 And it was just such a poignant shot. 6:13:47 And I took a picture. Speaker 10
6:13:55 Can you tell us who Dominic was? Speaker 3
6:13:59 Describe him. Speaker 11
6:14:01 Of course, I'd be happy to. 6:14:04 I don't think there's enough hours in the day to describe who Dominic was. 6:14:08 I don't. 6:14:12 Just seeing his photos here today, I feel his presence, and I feel... 6:14:18 Him giving me the courage to speak. 6:14:20 I've never done something like this on this type of forum before, but I know that he's rooting for me to speak for him, to be his voice, and that's what I'm here to do. 6:14:31 He was an outgoing, fun, energetic, strong 48-year-old man who had so much love and passion for life. 6:14:43 He loved to cook. 6:14:44 He was a great cook, better than I was. 6:14:47 He loved to eat. 6:14:49 He loved the outdoors. 6:14:52 Loved to go on hikes. 6:14:54 He loved to travel. 6:14:56 Listened to music. 6:15:00 Just loved life. 6:15:01 Loved us endlessly. 6:15:02 He was also the handiest man you'd ever meet. 6:15:05 Fixed things with ease and perfection. 6:15:08 He was the go-to guy that everybody would call on. 6:15:12 And we miss him every day. 6:15:14 We miss his love. 6:15:16 I miss his sound advice. 6:15:20 And we miss his presence. Speaker 3
6:15:26 So can you share his journey with us? Speaker 11
6:15:29 Of course I can. 6:15:32 The pandemic hit, as we all know, like this tsunami that came out of nowhere. 6:15:38 He protected us, went to the grocery store, did what he did to protect us. 6:15:44 I was frightened of COVID. 6:15:46 I was. 6:15:47 I think we all were. 6:15:50 Watched the news endlessly and we wanted to protect ourselves and protect those around us. 6:15:57 So we put our hand up and we went to get vaccinated. 6:16:01 I got vaccinated the week before. 6:16:05 He didn't have the luxury to work from home. 6:16:07 He was an HVAC technician. 6:16:10 and he had to be out there. 6:16:11 So he wanted to protect himself. 6:16:14 It was important to him, and it was important to us that he did that. 6:16:19 On the April 12th of 2021, we went to our local hospital. 6:16:24 I went with him, and he got his first shot of Pfizer. 6:16:30 And all I can recall was that 6:16:37 A couple of weeks later, not a couple of weeks, I'm sorry. 6:16:40 It was the first time he had voiced something to me was on April 28th. 6:16:44 16 days later, after his first vaccine, he was driving to a work call. 6:16:49 And he called me and he said, I am not feeling well. 6:16:54 I have blurred vision. 6:16:55 I'm dizzy and I had to pull over. 6:16:58 I think you need to call to get me a COVID vaccine swab or a swab, I'm sorry. 6:17:04 And I looked it up. 6:17:06 I immediately did some Googling and I said to him in these exact words, no, Dom, you know, I don't think it's COVID. 6:17:12 You don't have a cold and dizziness is not a symptom. 6:17:16 And I still have that text. 6:17:20 The days, he was better after that. 6:17:23 And 6:17:25 just the days that followed, all he continuously said, I feel off. 6:17:31 I'm feeling off. 6:17:32 Something's not right. 6:17:33 And he never went to the doctor. Speaker 3
6:17:39 He described stomach pains to you, right? Speaker 11
6:17:42 Very mild, mild abdominal pain. 6:17:45 The days that followed, there was a bruise on his non-vaccinated arm. 6:17:50 And he kept 6:17:52 kind of pointing to his legs on some occasions, just on the couch, like just, just to his legs that something was off. 6:18:00 He couldn't pinpoint it, nor could I. 6:18:04 If only I can rewind time and, and know I'm so well versed now knowing what, um, you know, the symptoms of blood clots were. 6:18:15 And then, um, two days of, of headaches. 6:18:19 It was mother's day. 6:18:20 It was, uh, 6:18:23 He had two days of headaches, took Tylenol, gave him Tylenol, and he was lying down. 6:18:28 And then the last words he said to me on May 10th, 2021, I'm going to head up to bed. 6:18:37 Are you going to come? 6:18:38 And I said, no, no. 6:18:39 I said, I'm just going to stay down here and watch some TV. 6:18:43 And on the early morning of May 11, 2021, I woke up to horror. 6:18:51 I woke up to him having a grand mal seizure, rocking, shaking next to me. 6:18:59 It's still dark at that point, so I didn't know what was going on. 6:19:04 I turned the lamp on and it was a sight I will never forget and something that's etched in my mind because it just wasn't him. 6:19:16 It was someone I didn't recognize. Speaker 3
6:19:20 Why do you say that? 6:19:21 Can you explain that for us? Speaker 11
6:19:24 Because he was just the guy that was always there and in control. 6:19:31 And there was no control. 6:19:33 He couldn't even tell me what was wrong. 6:19:35 He was seizing, foaming at the mouth, couldn't breathe. 6:19:42 And right away, I called 911 right away. 6:19:45 My son came into the bedroom. 6:19:48 We felt helpless, that we couldn't help him. 6:19:51 Helpless. 6:19:53 It felt like forever for the paramedics to arrive. 6:19:56 It was the third wave of COVID. Speaker 3
6:19:58 And I'm just going to slow you down. 6:20:00 You're at this stage personally in an absolute panic, and you're screaming and don't know what to do. 6:20:06 Am I right about that? Speaker 11
6:20:07 Absolute panic, utter shock. 6:20:11 Yes. 6:20:12 Yes. 6:20:14 My son calmed me down. Speaker 10
6:20:19 Yeah. 6:20:20 So 911 has called. 6:20:20 What happened after that? Speaker 11
6:20:23 It was the third wave of COVID, and it felt like forever until they arrived. 6:20:29 And I stayed in the bed to try to stabilize him as best I could, put him in the recovery position. Speaker 3
6:20:37 So is he still seizing? Speaker 11
6:20:39 That stopped. 6:20:40 It stopped. 6:20:42 Unconscious, just laying there, trying to breathe. 6:20:48 And my son went to kind of open every door so we can make sure that the paramedics and firefighters arrived as soon as they could and quickly. 6:20:57 And they came in in a furry. 6:21:00 It was hazmat suits and you name it. 6:21:04 And I was screaming and they called me down. 6:21:07 They said, we need to help your husband. 6:21:08 Just go downstairs. 6:21:10 We will help him. 6:21:15 He was alive still, barely. 6:21:18 Blue tried to save him the best they could. 6:21:25 He came down lifeless in my house and on a spinal board and was rushed to the local ER. 6:21:37 As I followed the ambulance to our local hospital, still hanging on. Speaker 10
6:21:47 What happened at the hospital? Speaker 11
6:21:50 Well, they allowed my son and I to go in into the emergency, and they told me he's being looked at and to wait here. 6:22:02 I called his family, his sisters, who we're so close to. 6:22:07 They came rushing over to try to comfort me and make sense of what was going on. 6:22:13 I finally got some answers. 6:22:14 The nurse came out to me and she called my name, Mrs. LaValle. 6:22:18 And I said, is he okay? 6:22:20 And she said, your husband's in critical condition. 6:22:24 He's intubated. 6:22:25 And the doctor's going to speak to you very shortly. 6:22:30 Took a deep breath. 6:22:32 My son and his sister were 6:22:35 You're to another room. 6:22:37 And they said to me that you're they did some CAT scans and he was just full of clots in his brain. 6:22:46 They didn't have a neurologist to specialize in that. 6:22:50 They had called Orange Ambulance to transport him as a life and limb. 6:22:57 They were too backlogged. 6:22:58 There was no time for that. 6:23:00 So he was transported with life and limb paramedics to another hospital in ICU. 6:23:11 They got him stable as best they could. 6:23:14 They told me to wait. 6:23:17 And I asked if my son could come up. 6:23:19 They said, no, only yourself. Speaker 3
6:23:22 So this is COVID restrictions. 6:23:24 Correct. Speaker 11
6:23:24 Correct. Speaker 3
6:23:26 So Dominic is dying. 6:23:29 He's being stabilized. 6:23:31 And his son, Michael, cannot come up. Speaker 11
6:23:35 No. 6:23:37 Stabilized in the sense, Sean, fighting for his life, intubated, couldn't breathe on his own. 6:23:43 I still remember that room, 5A. 6:23:46 And I walked up. 6:23:48 Somebody escorted me up. 6:23:52 They spoke to me. 6:23:52 They said, be prepared for what you're going to see. 6:23:57 I took a deep breath. 6:24:00 I held his hand and I said, I'm here and you're gonna make it. 6:24:08 And we're still doing a lot of assessments and they brought me into another room to speak to me. 6:24:18 And all I remember is the neurologist came out shortly after to ask me some questions about symptoms. 6:24:25 And I can recall one of the first things he had said to me, Ms. LaValle, I have to ask you, did your husband receive AstraZeneca, but was he vaccinated? 6:24:38 I didn't really even understand at that point why he was asking me that. 6:24:41 I said, yes, we were vaccinated. 6:24:43 He received the Pfizer shot 29 days ago. 6:24:47 We got Pfizer. 6:24:49 do you have proof of that? 6:24:51 I said, well, I think so. 6:24:53 I said, you know, and I remember sitting there in that waiting area, tearing my wallet apart, trying to find my receipt of the Pfizer vaccine receipt. 6:25:04 He left me be, let me look for it, came back running in a hurry. 6:25:08 I gave it to him. 6:25:09 He left and he says, we'll talk to you in a little bit. 6:25:13 And they let me stay in that room till they all came to speak with me. Speaker 3
6:25:26 You had another conversation. 6:25:28 I know that Dominic's non-responsive. Speaker 3
6:25:31 But you have another conversation with him in ICU and you promised him something. 6:25:35 Can you share with us about that? Speaker 11
6:25:38 So when the neurologist, you know, insinuated that it could have been AstraZeneca right then and there, 6:25:49 It was etched in my brain. 6:25:50 There was no way we're moving that. 6:25:52 They just came to the conclusion that he was an unlucky guy with bad luck. 6:25:58 And CVST was something so rare that I had never heard of, but a lot more prominent with the individuals on the news who had that exact plot with AstraZeneca. 6:26:12 So why did that happen to him? 6:26:14 I don't know. 6:26:14 Why am I sitting here in front of you and he's not? 6:26:16 I can't answer that. 6:26:18 All I know is that those five days in ICU, I promised him I'm going to be his voice and I'm going to be his voice to the end. 6:26:28 And I made him a promise. 6:26:30 Perhaps that's why I'm here today to do that. 6:26:35 And I'm grateful that I'm here to share my story and to tell you what I lost because 6:26:44 Dean, as you said, they're not statistics. 6:26:48 No one is. 6:26:49 And I don't want my husband to be a statistics. 6:26:52 Why? 6:26:55 Because he mattered. 6:26:57 And he was a kind human being. 6:27:00 And that's why I'm here. 6:27:04 And silence matters. 6:27:07 is not what we need. 6:27:08 And I feel like I've been silenced for five years just with my thoughts and my loneliness and reflecting and trying to connect the dots. 6:27:22 So I'm here today to be his voice, but everybody who can't be here today, I'm their voice because they're being heard. 6:27:31 And I thank you because for the first time in five years, 6:27:36 I'm being heard, and I'm feeling acknowledged, and he's feeling acknowledged. Speaker 1
6:27:46 Thanks, Marilyn. 6:27:47 We really appreciate it. 6:27:49 Maybe just a couple of comments or questions. 6:27:51 Of course. 6:27:52 Don't. Speaker 28
6:27:55 Thank you very much for sharing your heart, your story, and the pain. 6:28:03 You said that the neurologist suggested that it might be AstraZeneca. 6:28:08 Did he support you afterwards with this and the other doctors in documentation of this, or did they kind of withdraw? Speaker 11
6:28:17 He said it when I first arrived there. 6:28:20 And then, yeah, I would say he withdrew from that. 6:28:25 Three of them did. 6:28:26 There was the hematologist there in ICU. 6:28:30 she thought the suspicion was low because he got Pfizer, but she was adamant that it'd be reported because post-vaccination and the days were suspicious, 21, nine days later. 6:28:43 So she spoke with infectious diseases and I was assured that it was reported as an adverse event. 6:28:52 When I kept questioning it and bringing it up again, do you think it was AstraZeneca? 6:28:58 And all he said was, you showed proof that it was Pfizer, and we don't have any data right now, Ms. LaValle, to support that. 6:29:06 And your husband was just very unlucky. 6:29:11 And he had bad luck. 6:29:12 That's all I heard for five years. 6:29:14 I'm sorry he had bad luck. Speaker 28
6:29:24 For a previous testimony, I think it was Dr. Rose, 6:29:29 It wasn't just bad luck because it seemed like there was a lot more cases, incredible amount of cases. 6:29:37 And I'll just think of my daughter within two days of getting vaccinated. 6:29:46 She had a young mother, got severe headaches, went on for years, actually continues going the past year and just incapacitated. 6:29:55 And she had a lot of tests. 6:29:59 One of the doctors suggested that it might be this, but the others were very hesitant. 6:30:03 So it's something that has been experienced by people across this country. 6:30:12 I know myself, within two days of being vaccinated, the second time I got shingles from my body and there was another, that I knew was directly related to the vaccines, but 6:30:27 But I had problems walking for some time afterwards. 6:30:31 And there are other things, too. 6:30:34 So it's, yeah. 6:30:37 So thank you for sharing this. 6:30:39 And we are very sorry about your loss. Speaker 11
6:30:41 I appreciate that. Speaker 1
6:30:44 Thanks once again. 6:30:45 We appreciate you sharing your story. 6:30:47 And as I said, you know, when you ask questions, we ask questions. 6:30:51 And we need to ask more questions, right? Speaker 11
6:30:53 We do. 6:30:54 We do. 6:30:55 And I thank you from the bottom of my heart. 6:30:58 I know so many people have applied. 6:31:01 I'm grateful to be here, and I'm grateful to be heard and seen. 6:31:05 And I hope, my hope is today onward that we heal as a nation. 6:31:12 We learn from our past mistakes. 6:31:17 And... 6:31:19 And I have compassion and healing, and I pray for everybody who suffered due to this nightmare and tragedy, especially the ones who are suffering today. 6:31:27 And thank you for listening. Speaker 1
6:31:28 Thank you for continuing your husband's legacy. Speaker 11
6:31:31 Thank you. 6:31:31 Thanks. Speaker 3
6:31:38 So our next witness is Nicole Morier. 6:31:42 Nicole, can you take the Bible which is being handed to you in your right hand? 6:31:52 Nicole Morier, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Speaker 3
6:32:01 Now, you are the mother of Abigail Morier. Speaker 3
6:32:07 And Abigail was your only child. Speaker 20
6:32:09 That's correct, yeah. Speaker 3
6:32:12 And Abigail's general practitioner, her family doctor, that was her doctor from birth, agrees that 6:32:22 Abigail died of a vaccine injury. Speaker 20
6:32:24 Yes, that's what she reported on the federal VISP medical assessment report. Speaker 3
6:32:33 Can you tell us about your daughter? Speaker 20
6:32:36 Yeah, so Abigail, I called her my earth angel. 6:32:42 She was my only child and she was my entire world, my everything. Speaker 3
6:32:52 Now, she was 24 when this happened, right? Speaker 20
6:32:56 Yes, she was 24. 6:32:57 So to talk about her, she loved sports. 6:33:03 She was very adventurous. 6:33:04 She played every sport imaginable, anything from water skiing, softball. 6:33:10 She played competitive soccer. 6:33:11 She was on the travel team. 6:33:13 She was the... 6:33:19 the captain, sorry, of the team. 6:33:22 She danced, did volleyball, um, golfing. 6:33:28 I mean, you just name it. 6:33:30 She took on any sport, any adventure, rock climbing. 6:33:35 She worked out at the gym. 6:33:36 She was very healthy and she was into, um, 6:33:39 health and eating well, fitness. 6:33:42 She took very good care of herself. 6:33:45 Also mentally as well, you know, she took a lot of personal development courses as a young person. 6:33:51 She wanted to exercise her mind and her spirituality. 6:33:56 She was very intuitive and she had a big heart. 6:33:59 She had a heart of gold. 6:34:01 She had a vibrant present about her. 6:34:04 She walked into a room She had these beautiful big emerald green eyes and a smile that lit up an entire room and she had this long black hair and She looked like an angel. 6:34:15 She really did a beautiful earth angel, but she was so humble and kind and so caring and giving and She was an absolute attribution in our world and I 6:34:29 She became a cardiology technologist and she was absolutely brilliant. 6:34:34 She graduated with distinction and she was nominated student of the year with the Steinberg College. 6:34:43 She worked at the hospital in Red Deer. 6:34:47 They offered her a position in the cardiology unit. 6:34:51 Before she even passed her course, she was working there doing her preceptorship. 6:34:56 They saw something really special in her, and they offered her a position based on the conditions of her completing her exam. 6:35:04 And she did. 6:35:05 She passed that exam with flying colors. 6:35:09 And I never found out about how well she did in school until after she passed away because I got to see her final marks. 6:35:17 She got A pluses all across the board. 6:35:20 She was actually mentoring some of her colleagues in the program because it's a very difficult program. 6:35:28 And she would get on the phone and she would help them and mentor them through the course. 6:35:33 She just knew the material so well. 6:35:36 And she was so loved at her work, she didn't even get to fulfill a career of two years. 6:35:46 in Red Deer, the entire staff at the cardiac unit in the hospital, that hospital unit was closed down for the afternoon and Healthy Hearts was closed down the day of Abigail's service. 6:36:00 That's how much she made an impact in not even two years of employment. 6:36:05 There was a cardiologist that spoke at her service and he said, she saw things that I don't even understand how she knew. 6:36:15 And she was saving people and saving lives. 6:36:18 And one of those patients was actually her grandpa. 6:36:21 He's still alive today. 6:36:22 He's 92. 6:36:27 He went into the cardiac unit in the hospital for a checkup. 6:36:31 He had a pacemaker and Abigail saw something and she pointed it to the cardiologist and he said, my goodness, we need to get this patient in here right away. 6:36:41 And he was put on some medication and she was just incredible, just a credible spirit. 6:36:48 And I want to say one more thing about her is her favorite number was 13 and 6:36:53 And I want you to observe the number that I'm sitting in front of right now. 6:36:58 So she has been an absolute angel and guiding me since this whole process. 6:37:06 And I call her my angel of truth and awareness. 6:37:10 And I know that there's no accident why I'm here today. 6:37:14 It's because she is absolutely guiding me. 6:37:19 And the message that I got from her is not for her, but for others that could potentially be harmed. 6:37:28 And that's ultimately who she was. Speaker 3
6:37:30 And, um, some parents and children are, aren't close to each other, but you and Abigail were like sisters, weren't you? 6:37:39 And she lived with you and your mother. Speaker 20
6:37:42 Yeah. 6:37:42 The three of us lived together for many years. 6:37:46 Um, 6:37:48 And yes, so every year, the three of us went on girls trips together. 6:37:54 We actually called ourselves the Three Musketeers as well. 6:37:59 And we were very close, very bonded. 6:38:03 And often people would think that my mom was both of our moms. 6:38:08 They thought that Abigail and I were sisters. 6:38:11 We had a very playful relationship. 6:38:14 We joked. 6:38:15 It was funny. 6:38:16 She was... 6:38:18 so witty and she could come up with one-liners and she had wittiness right in her bones and she made me laugh all the time and I always said to her that as long as we had each other we'd be able to navigate in this world and so I lost a big piece of my navigation and so 6:38:46 Now instead of calling her my earth angel, I call her my guardian angel. 6:38:52 And tomorrow, September 10th, is her birthday. 6:38:55 She would have been 28 tomorrow. 6:39:00 And I should be at home making plans with her and our family. 6:39:06 And instead I'm here talking about her in a past tense, and it makes no sense to me. Speaker 3
6:39:19 Can you share with us Abigail's health journey? Speaker 3
6:39:26 Can you share with us the journey she took with the vaccine? Speaker 20
6:39:32 So there's a lot of really critical things to understand about Abigail and her health journey. 6:39:40 The first thing is, is in June of 2021, 6:39:45 The vaccines weren't mandated at that time, but there was the restrictions of not being able to go in restaurants or travel, these sorts of things. 6:39:57 And her and I talked extensively about that process. 6:40:00 And she said, Mom, it's okay. 6:40:02 You know, I don't need to go out with my friends and go to concerts. 6:40:06 And she said, I feel in my heart that if I was to get these shots, something really bad would happen to me. 6:40:14 She had that intuition and she also has drug hypersensitivity, which is a big part. 6:40:21 And I share that experience with her as well. 6:40:26 And so I said to her at that time, Abigail, you can never get these shots. 6:40:30 And she said, well, I'm not going to. 6:40:33 She was hired with AHS. 6:40:37 Officially in June of 2021. Speaker 3
6:40:39 Which is Alberta Health Services. 6:40:41 Alberta Health Services. Speaker 20
6:40:43 In June of 2021. 6:40:44 And she worked on the cardiology unit in the hospital. 6:40:50 And shortly after that, she started working. 6:40:54 And they had a policy in place that if an employee woke up 6:41:00 And they had flu or cold-like symptoms that they had to go get a PCR test. 6:41:04 So August 23rd, she woke up. 6:41:07 She felt flu-like symptoms. 6:41:10 She went and got a PCR test. 6:41:12 And on August 26th, that came back that she tested positive for COVID. 6:41:18 And when I talked to her, I said, well, how are you feeling? 6:41:21 She said, well, I'm fine. 6:41:22 Like, I'm, you know, I'm sick. 6:41:24 But she said, I'm fine and I'm getting through it. 6:41:27 And I wasn't concerned about her at all, in fact. 6:41:31 And I kind of said to her in a light way, I said, well, at least you have natural immunity. 6:41:36 And I said, that's really good for you and for your patients. 6:41:39 It'll protect you and them. 6:41:41 And she said, yeah. 6:41:42 And so she was resting well. 6:41:45 And then September 1st, she got the letter from her employer, AHS, and they enforced the mandates. 6:41:54 And that's when everything changed. 6:41:56 And it happened so quickly. 6:41:58 So in order for her to keep her job, she had to have what they would call fully vaccinated, which is two shots by October 15th. 6:42:07 So there was really no time to think. 6:42:09 And so I suggested that she ask her employer for a medical exemption. 6:42:15 She had some genuine concerns about getting the shots. 6:42:19 She went to the HR department and she asked for a medical exemption and they denied her that. 6:42:25 And they said, we're not giving out medical exemptions. Speaker 3
6:42:28 And Nicole, we're, we have short time. 6:42:30 And so you're giving us some deep, more detail than you need. 6:42:33 And I just, I know there's some more important bits that I'd rather you focus on. Speaker 3
6:42:37 So can we truncate that a little bit? Speaker 20
6:42:39 Okay. 6:42:40 So, um, 6:42:42 Yeah, it's such a big story, so I'll move fast. 6:42:45 She then went to her medical doctor, asked for a medical exemption, and she was denied as well. 6:42:56 So at that time, Abigail's doctor told her that it was in her best interest to get the shots, that they were safe and effective, and to go ahead. 6:43:07 And she trusted her doctor. 6:43:08 That was her lifelong doctor. 6:43:10 And that ultimately sealed Abigail's fate and her decision. 6:43:15 So on September 15th, she got her first Pfizer shot in 2021. 6:43:21 And her second shot to comply to the employment standards, October 15th, 2021. 6:43:28 About seven months after that, she started feeling unwell. 6:43:31 She was nauseous, just generally couldn't pinpoint what was happening. 6:43:35 Those symptoms progressed. 6:43:37 And then in March 16th of 2023, she had issues with swallowing. 6:43:44 And she went to a walk-in clinic and they ordered an endoscopy, which is a procedure they put a scope down your throat. 6:43:53 And on March 19th, she was in so much pain, so uncomfortable. 6:43:59 She phoned my mom. 6:44:00 I was working that day. 6:44:01 And she said, Grams, you need to come and pick me up. 6:44:05 Something really bad is happening. 6:44:07 Something is really wrong. 6:44:09 They took her to eMERGE. 6:44:10 She was put into the back room right away. 6:44:13 She had extreme pain in her right lung. 6:44:17 It was shooting up her neck into her head. 6:44:20 And 6:44:21 The ER doctor thought maybe she had mild pneumonia, possibly a blood clot in her right lung. 6:44:27 They did a CT scan, which revealed that she was basically full of cancer. 6:44:34 And she had a tumor in her right lung. 6:44:41 She was 23 years old. 6:44:42 She never smoked. 6:44:45 Her lower lobe and her middle lobe of her lung were both collapsed. 6:44:50 And it was causing her lung to consistently fill up with fluid. 6:44:54 And it would fill up with a liter of fluid. 6:44:56 So you imagine a liter of fluid sitting, Abigail was a small person, sitting inside a collapsed lung. 6:45:04 How painful that would be, along with a tumor. 6:45:07 She had a tumor in the middle of her chest area. 6:45:10 It was so large that it was obstructing her cardiac system. 6:45:16 Her heart, all the valves were being pushed over to the left side of her body. 6:45:21 She had enlarged lymph nodes all throughout her body. 6:45:25 She had two in her neck that were so large that they were threatening to either cut off her ability to swallow or to breathe. 6:45:34 She had numerous health issues throughout her care in the hospital. 6:45:39 She was transferred between two hospitals, Red Deer and Calgary. 6:45:44 She had numerous specialists. 6:45:46 She had hematologists, cardiologists, pulmonologists. 6:45:50 She had a team of cardiologists, and nobody understood what was going on with her. 6:45:56 One of the oncologists said to me, I've never seen anything like this, especially in someone so young. 6:46:05 They couldn't understand the rate of the growth of her cancer rate. 6:46:10 The tumor in her chest grew in just, it doubled in size in just two weeks. 6:46:17 The oncologist explained to me that this is something, this tumor and this growth is something that they would normally see in a cancer patient over a 10-year time span. 6:46:28 They were seeing this growth in two weeks. 6:46:31 She was diagnosed with an extremely rare cancer. 6:46:35 The chances of getting this type of cancer is one in multi millions and millions of people. 6:46:42 It was an extraordinary cancer on top of a very rare cancer. 6:46:47 It's called nut carcinoma. 6:46:50 From the time that she was diagnosed to the time she passed, it was only six weeks. 6:46:56 She deteriorated very rapidly. 6:47:00 She went from having normal ECGs to abnormal ECGs. 6:47:04 Blood work went crazy. 6:47:07 She was near the end of life. 6:47:09 They had to start doing platelet blood transfusions because her platelets dropped so low. 6:47:16 And normal platelets are between 150 and 450, and hers dropped to a level 6. 6:47:24 She was at extreme risk of internal bleeding, of having a stroke. 6:47:29 Any sort of surgery at that point was completely off the charts. 6:47:34 The last weekend of her life, she was transferred back to Calgary Foothills by her oncologist who said, you need to come back. 6:47:42 They transported her in an ambulance. 6:47:45 They said, we think you'll get better care here. 6:47:48 She became extremely bloated during that weekend. 6:47:51 She looked like she was five months pregnant. 6:47:55 I kept questioning what was going on with her. 6:47:57 Saturday afternoon, she developed a nosebleed and her nose bled for 24 hours. Speaker 9
6:48:06 And I kept saying to them, you need to do something. 6:48:10 You need to help her. 6:48:16 And they finally sent someone up, a specialist. Speaker 20
6:48:20 And they pulled a massive blood clot out of her nose with some forceps and some suction. 6:48:27 And she was coughing up massive blood clots because of the blood she was swallowing. 6:48:35 And she had a vessel. 6:48:38 That was very prominent and bleeding because her platelets were so low, her blood wouldn't clot. 6:48:46 And so they cauterized the vessel and they put gauze up into her nose. 6:48:54 And she was on oxygen and she was on nasal prongs. 6:49:01 And they couldn't use the nasal prongs anymore. 6:49:04 And so they put the mask on her. Speaker 9
6:49:08 And she didn't like it because she couldn't breathe. 6:49:15 She kept pulling it off. 6:49:19 And I kept putting it on and she kept pulling it off. Speaker 20
6:49:25 And I sat at her bed and I held the mask out from her face because I would do anything for her. 6:49:34 I would just sit there and hold my arm up. 6:49:38 because I wanted her to get the oxygen. 6:49:42 And she became so unwell that weekend. 6:49:45 She came very quiet, almost non-responsive, didn't eat a lot, didn't say a lot. 6:49:54 I tried to get her in the shower. 6:49:55 That was impossible. 6:49:58 And on May 1st, they administered two rounds of chemo, and that proved to be 6:50:07 all that her body could handle. 6:50:09 She went into a state of metabolic acidosis and all her healthy organs literally started to shut down and fail one by one. 6:50:21 And she suffered immensely and she fought so hard. 6:50:26 And about midnight that night, she went unconscious. 6:50:30 I thought she was sleeping. 6:50:32 They tried to sternum rub her. 6:50:34 They couldn't wake her up. 6:50:35 They call it a death coma. 6:50:38 And so I crawled into bed with her, and I snuggled with her, and I rubbed her hair in her ears, and I told her I loved her. 6:50:51 And I could tell she was getting near the end of her life because of her breathing. 6:50:58 I watched my dad and my grandma pass, so I recognized the breathing pattern. 6:51:03 And I was singing to her lullaby, and 6:51:10 It was so painful that I just buried my head into her chest because I couldn't watch it anymore. 6:51:19 I just felt so helpless. 6:51:24 And about 9.30 on May 2nd, she took a breath in and a breath out. 6:51:30 And that was it. 6:51:32 And I laid in bed with her until 2.30 that afternoon. 6:51:36 And I told that hospital I wasn't leaving without my daughter. 6:51:42 We had to make special arrangements for a funeral home in Red Deer to drive to Calgary and pick her up. 6:51:51 And after she died, I got to brush her hair. 6:51:57 And I wiped her nose. Speaker 9
6:52:00 I said, please take the stuff out of her nose. 6:52:05 And I wiped the blood off her nose and I brushed her hair and they put her in a body bag and they zipped her up. 6:52:16 And I couldn't believe what happened. 6:52:23 And that's ultimately how she left this world. 6:52:32 Suffering and in a lot of pain. 6:52:35 And for what? Speaker 20
6:52:39 For a virus that has a 99% survival rate. 6:52:44 For something that she got when your immune system is intact and you're young and healthy, you just get over it. 6:52:52 Your body knows what to do. 6:52:56 All because of a mandate. Speaker 3
6:53:01 I'm going to 6:53:03 I'm going to have David bring up some photos. 6:53:07 So can you tell us about this photo? Speaker 20
6:53:11 That's her graduation photo. 6:53:14 So she graduated as a Cardio Tech in May of 2021. 6:53:20 And we got Abigail dressed. 6:53:22 She had a friend who was a photographer. 6:53:25 And we went out and we took photos and there was a field. 6:53:30 And we stopped and that's Abigail. 6:53:32 standing in the field. 6:53:36 She was so proud. Speaker 9
6:53:39 She was so intelligent. 6:53:44 So robbed. Speaker 3
6:53:48 David, can we go to the next photo, please? 6:53:51 Can you tell us about this photo? Speaker 20
6:53:54 Abigail had a group of friends and they were called the Girl Gang. 6:53:58 There were seven of them. 6:53:59 Now there's six. 6:54:01 But this is Abigail's last photo of her last birthday. 6:54:05 So she turned 24. 6:54:08 September 10th, 2022. 6:54:10 This was her last birthday. 6:54:13 I could have never imagined. 6:54:15 She wanted... 6:54:16 balloons for her birthday and so we constructed these wood pillars here and we hung up these the happy birthday and this was out at my acreage and she had her friends over and they sat outside and had a little teas and wines and it was so special I could have never imagined that that would be her last birthday she looked so healthy and vibrant there Speaker 3
6:54:43 David, can we go to the next? 6:54:45 Tell me about this photo. Speaker 20
6:54:48 So this is her in the... Did we miss one? Speaker 3
6:54:52 Okay, no, this is fine. 6:54:53 Go ahead. Speaker 20
6:54:54 This is her in the Red Deer Hospital. 6:54:56 You can tell she's lost a lot of weight. 6:54:59 I think she went down. 6:55:00 She was about 100 pounds when she passed away. 6:55:05 But this is her little portable oxygen tank. 6:55:09 And every day her and I would go for a little walk down the hallway and she would do that and she felt so proud. 6:55:21 And I remember a few days after this photo was taken, it was the last time I walked the hallway with my daughter and we hooked arms together and she pushed her little oxygen tank and she was so proud and she'd go back and she'd do little stretches at her bed. Speaker 3
6:55:40 Can you give us the next photo? 6:55:42 Tell us about this photo. Speaker 20
6:55:45 So this photo is taken on April 30th. 6:55:50 So it was two days before she passed away. 6:55:53 And you can see this is where she has the mask oxygen on. 6:55:59 So that's after she had the 24-hour nosebleed. 6:56:03 And you can see her stomach is very bloated there. 6:56:06 She looks pregnant, which she wasn't. 6:56:09 She was just really bloated. 6:56:13 But that's how quickly she deteriorated. Speaker 10
6:56:16 Can we have the next photo? Speaker 20
6:56:23 So this here, because her lung kept filling up with fluid, the pulmonologist decided it was best 6:56:33 rather than aspartating the fluid out with a big needle to put a chest tube in there. 6:56:40 So that chest tube was inserted and every few days they connect that with a little container system and it has like a pump and fluid comes through that tube when it's connected and it goes into a canister. 6:56:58 And that's one of the things that she would get really anxious with that procedure. 6:57:04 So they would have to give her medication like an anxiety pill. 6:57:11 And we would play music and that's my mom's hands there. 6:57:15 My mom and I would sit beside Abigail and we'd hold her hands while she was getting this done because it made her very nervous. Speaker 3
6:57:24 Can we go to the next photo? 6:57:26 Tell us about this photo. Speaker 20
6:57:29 So that's just the distinction of how quickly she changed. 6:57:34 That photo on the right was taken in December of 2022. 6:57:39 There was MMA fights in Red Deer. 6:57:42 And Abigail was asked to be one of the ring girls that walk around with the numbers. 6:57:51 And that photo was taken in December of 22. 6:57:55 And the one on the left, 6:57:57 is taken four months later in April of 2023. 6:58:02 So that's how quickly her cancer progressed. Speaker 3
6:58:06 And we're short on time, but I wanted to ask, you had a conversation with Abigail's doctor who told her to get vaccinated. Speaker 3
6:58:13 Can you quickly tell us about that? Speaker 20
6:58:17 So after Abigail passed, I had... 6:58:21 A friend messaged me and telling me about her own daughter who's diagnosed with a rare lymphoma cancer. 6:58:29 And she said that she was filing with the VIS program. 6:58:33 And she said that just in four weeks, there was five other young people between 20 and 30 that were diagnosed on that same unit. 6:58:43 She said, you got to see this. 6:58:45 It's unreal. 6:58:46 She said the cancer unit's full of young patients. 6:58:50 And that's when I realized that this was something phenomenal. 6:58:54 And it's astonishing how many people have contacted me about their very young children having stomachs removed and all sorts of cancers. Speaker 3
6:59:03 Nicole, the conversation I was... Speaker 20
6:59:06 Okay. 6:59:07 And then back to the doctor. 6:59:08 So I, in order to file with the VIS program at the time, you needed a doctor to complete a medical assessment form. 6:59:17 So I made an appointment with her doctor. 6:59:19 And I went in and I sat down and I told her that I brought in the paperwork for her to complete. 6:59:30 And she didn't hesitate at all. 6:59:32 And she completed those documents, so the federal VISP medical assessment documents. 6:59:39 And under the adverse events, she wrote in, 6:59:43 net carcinoma post-COVID-19 vaccination. 6:59:47 She also made additional notes that Abigail was mandated by her employer and when she received the shots. Speaker 3
6:59:53 But what I'm going to need to talk about is why she told Abigail to get vaccinated. Speaker 3
6:59:59 And we're just, we're out of time. Speaker 20
7:00:01 Okay, so very quickly, when I 7:00:05 Talked to her doctor and I said, I'm aware that Abigail asked for a medical exemption and you denied her that medical exemption. 7:00:13 And I said to her, you told her it was safe and effective without having the science or information. 7:00:19 She said to me, yes, you're right, I did. 7:00:23 And the important thing she said is what you need to understand is that we were threatened by our associations, that if we gave out medical exemptions for the mask or for the COVID-19 vaccinations, that we would lose our license and our job. 7:00:41 And so that is ultimately why doctors fell lockstep, because they weren't just threatened with their job, but with their license. 7:00:51 And that's ultimately what happened in Abigail's situation. Speaker 10
7:01:00 Cole, I just want to thank you for sharing your story. Speaker 8
7:01:07 Thank you. Speaker 10
7:01:14 Our next witness is Julie Ivan. 7:01:16 Julie, will you take the Bible in the right hand? Speaker 3
7:01:25 Julie Avon, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Speaker 3
7:01:33 Now, you did not have COVID, and you're a doctor, so you've been verified as having a vaccine entry, and you're one of the few that even the Vaccine Entry Support Program agrees that you have a vaccine entry. 7:01:47 You're currently 50. 7:01:52 You have three children. 7:01:53 Mm-hmm. 7:01:54 You work at Canada Post, and you started back in 2016 as a mail carrier. 7:02:00 And you were walking basically 18 to 20 kilometres a day, five days a week. 7:02:07 You also were very active. 7:02:08 You would do the 30 kilometre round the bay run five years in a row. 7:02:13 You were a hardcore runner. 7:02:15 And three to five days a week, you went to the gym. 7:02:18 This is pre-vaccine. 7:02:19 So you were like one of these hyper, 7:02:22 athletes that the rest of us try to ignore exist. 7:02:26 So, okay. Speaker 16
7:02:28 It was 2006 I started with Canada Post. Speaker 3
7:02:31 That's my 21st year. 7:02:32 Oh, I'm sorry. 7:02:33 I got that wrong by 10 years. Speaker 3
7:02:37 So, yeah, and the point I was just trying to make is, I mean, and you love that job too. Speaker 16
7:02:41 I love letter carrying. 7:02:42 Yes, I love it so much. 7:02:44 Yeah, and I've just gone in in the last year and a half inside. 7:02:48 I finally just couldn't do it anymore outside. 7:02:50 I tried to do it. 7:02:52 And I convinced the neurologist to let me go back to work and have sign off on me going back after two months. 7:02:59 Just because I said, I have a truck. 7:03:00 I'll park my truck, do five houses, get back in my truck, move it up, do another five houses. 7:03:05 I said, you got to let me go back to work. 7:03:07 I'm going crazy. 7:03:09 I had about two months off when it first happened. 7:03:12 Just because I couldn't walk. 7:03:14 I walked. Speaker 3
7:03:14 Let's start at the beginning. 7:03:15 Okay. 7:03:16 So you have your second Moderna shot back on June 30th, 2021. 7:03:22 Can you share with us kind of what happened after that? Speaker 16
7:03:25 Yeah. 7:03:26 So it was a Wednesday. 7:03:27 I think I was just at the pharmacy picking up a prescription for my daughter. 7:03:31 And I just said, hey, do you have any in there? 7:03:33 She said, yeah, we have Moderna. 7:03:35 And I said, is that okay? 7:03:36 Because I took Pfizer as my first one. 7:03:38 She said, yeah, no problem. 7:03:39 So that was a Wednesday. 7:03:41 And then Friday, me and my partner were driving up north. 7:03:44 And I was like, oh, my feet are so tingly. 7:03:46 Like I can't. 7:03:46 feel that like it feels like they're asleep and I didn't think anything and we drive up north we rented a cottage and then Saturday I woke up and I'm like it's up to my knees now like just tingling and I could still walk everything and then Sunday it was up to my waist and this and I'm just like it felt like a freezing in your tooth so you know after you have a cavity and they freeze your tooth and you're walking you could still chew you could still do everything it's just it felt like 7:04:11 swollen and like a, like I was frozen. 7:04:13 So I'm like, okay, this is going to wear off. 7:04:14 It's obviously the vaccine. 7:04:16 Something just kind of triggered something. 7:04:18 It's going to wear off. 7:04:20 And then Monday morning I woke up and it was up to my bra line and I couldn't feel to go to the bathroom anymore. 7:04:25 So that's when I was like, okay, so this is a Monday. 7:04:28 We're just supposed to be leaving on the Monday. 7:04:31 So I called. Speaker 3
7:04:31 So you couldn't, you couldn't feel even to like go to the bathroom. Speaker 3
7:04:36 Like you're feeling numb from. Speaker 16
7:04:41 So the Sunday, it was still just the numbness. 7:04:44 It was like walking and it was shocks coming up my legs and it was just the numbness. 7:04:47 And if I kneeled down, I felt like I was on like two inches of bubble wrap. 7:04:52 But again, I'm just like, okay, this is just some kind of freezing wearing off or something with that. 7:04:58 So then the Monday morning, I'm like, okay, now this is serious. 7:05:02 I can't feel to go to the bathroom now. 7:05:04 So I know I'm not going to get into the doctor on a Monday, so I called telehealth. 7:05:08 and just explain my symptoms. 7:05:10 And she just said, get to emergency. 7:05:12 So we were debating what hospital to go to because we were up north. 7:05:17 And my partner's mom had worked at St. Mike's in Toronto. 7:05:20 So she said, I would just, and I live in Hamilton. 7:05:22 So she said, just go there. 7:05:24 So we drove down and they got me in right away and just said, just ask me the questions. 7:05:30 And then within a couple hours, I was having like a spinal tap and MRIs. 7:05:36 First, it was an MRI. 7:05:37 They found a lesion. 7:05:38 So the way I've been explained it, it's the vaccine caused my immune system to attack my spine. 7:05:44 So there's a lesion there now. 7:05:47 And then they did a spinal tap and it was like 1500 milligrams of pregnazone to like an IV pregnazone first. 7:05:56 And then I think it was like 23 pills a day. 7:06:00 to take to start and then you slowly taper it off over a couple of months. 7:06:03 So the first two pharmacies wouldn't even fill it because they couldn't get ahold of the doctor and they'd never seen a prescription that large and they were nervous. 7:06:11 And then it was finally one did and they just a bunch of phone calls back and forth. 7:06:16 And yeah, so it was just, when I walked, it's just with shocks. 7:06:20 Every step, it was like something was rebounding back up. 7:06:23 And if I went like this, it was like electric shocks. 7:06:27 But for the first little while, it was only under here that was affected. 7:06:30 And now it's my hands, my head. 7:06:33 I have this tingling in my head. Speaker 3
7:06:34 Do you have tingling right now? Speaker 16
7:06:38 Not at this minute, but it happens daily, a couple times a day. 7:06:41 And the feet and the hands are burning or freezing. 7:06:46 I feel like my fingertips are frostbit, but, you know, they're burning. 7:06:51 It's... 7:06:52 all just different things. 7:06:53 My legs from the knee down are numb. 7:06:55 I can feel the walk. 7:06:56 Everyone thinks, Oh, you know, I can feel completely to walk, but they're numb. 7:07:00 And they, I, I used to be sure footed. 7:07:02 Now I'm not sure footed. 7:07:03 If I'm level ground, it's fine, but that's why I had to go inside because I can't take the outside anymore surfaces. 7:07:10 And now I'm inside to play it unloading trucks of mail. Speaker 3
7:07:15 Just let's slow down here. 7:07:17 So, um, 7:07:20 So you basically go to the hospital, they do MRI, they're doing all of these tests, but they're not able to solve the problem. 7:07:28 They tell you right away the vaccine caused this by causing your immune system to attack your spinal cord. 7:07:36 But they don't really have any solutions for treatment. 7:07:39 Am I right about that? Speaker 16
7:07:40 Just the pregnazone to bring down the inflammation. 7:07:42 But the neurologist basically said the damage is done. 7:07:46 There's nothing you can do about it. 7:07:48 You just have to figure out how to live with the symptoms of it, which are progressively getting worse. 7:07:53 So now I just had another MRI a couple of weeks ago and I just had the neurologist appointment yesterday and there's another lesion in my brain now. 7:08:02 So it is getting worse because now there's new lesions forming and the sensations, the fatigue is really bad. 7:08:10 I get about a good hour or two in the morning and I'm tired. 7:08:14 So she can't give me a stimulant because she says it will make all the sensory issues worse. 7:08:20 So it's kind of just, you know, or else painkillers, which I don't want to take. 7:08:25 I didn't even want to take the medication I'm on, but it's supposed to scramble the signals from my brain to my body because my brain is sending the wrong signals. 7:08:33 So I'm taking that because I have to, but I don't want to take any pain. 7:08:38 I would rather the pain and feel what's going on than pain. 7:08:42 the numbness that came along with those gabapentin and that kind of thing. 7:08:47 I just wanted to, they're not a good mix for me. 7:08:50 So I'm taking what I have to and try to do lion's mane and a natural approach. 7:08:56 And, you know, I smoke marijuana to help at the end of the day at work. 7:09:01 I can't do that all day because I'm working, but at the end of the night, that helps me just feel a little bit lighter about everything. Speaker 3
7:09:08 So I just, I just want to get a feel for kind of, 7:09:11 how you're like today. 7:09:12 And so you've still got all these numbness and tingling and shooting. 7:09:19 My understanding is, is that, you know, if you walk, I mean, even just five, 10 minutes, your feet feel like they're burning and that you have to stop walking then because it becomes too painful. Speaker 16
7:09:33 Yeah. 7:09:33 I've been walking. 7:09:34 Yeah. 7:09:35 it's about 500 feet. 7:09:36 After you asked me that the one day, I'm like, I'm not really, I didn't really pay attention. 7:09:40 So now I'm trying to walk a little bit and it's about 500 feet before they just, it's just the soles of them are just burning so bad. 7:09:48 And, but then it'll go to numbness in my toes. 7:09:51 So the soles are burning, but my toes are numb. 7:09:54 So then you're kind of compensate walking with numb toes on the edges and numb heels, or it feels like someone's grabbing you around the, 7:10:04 ankle or it just feels like these odd sensations. 7:10:07 I get these electric where it's just all of a sudden I'm just like this because it's like an electric shock around my middle or the hands are numb. 7:10:16 Yeah, it's just a host of all different things daily. Speaker 3
7:10:19 With your hands, you've also lost dexterity, right? 7:10:22 Like doing things like buttons up and that is extremely difficult. Speaker 16
7:10:26 Yeah, just getting buttons done and I have a lot of help. 7:10:29 getting things done up and stuff sometimes. 7:10:32 And I just had carpal surgery, carpal tunnel on one hand, they want to do it on the other, the ulnar nerves, like just seems, I guess what I've been told is the immune system is on overactive, like overdrive. 7:10:43 So everything, I had a rheumatologist send me to do IVIG, which is the, you know, you go to the hospital and they infuse you with that, but then that just brought a whole other, I had a rash all over my body, whiteheads all over my scalp. 7:10:58 They're still all over my scalp. 7:11:01 I had to take a cream, I guess, because I heard the IVIG gives you more susceptible to skin cancer. 7:11:08 So I had an effect from the skin cancer cream. 7:11:14 They gave me liquid chemo and now my nose is, I have makeup on, but it's permanently bright red because of spots they tried. 7:11:20 It's a series of unfortunate events that keep happening and it just is not getting any better. 7:11:28 And my neurologist is great. 7:11:29 She's known it was from the vaccine. 7:11:31 The rheumatologist, you know, they're great. 7:11:34 They acknowledge what it's from and they're trying to help. 7:11:36 But it's basically you just got to manage your symptoms. 7:11:39 There's nothing to do with it. Speaker 3
7:11:41 There's no. 7:11:42 Right. 7:11:43 And you were talking about basically what's almost constant fatigue. 7:11:50 So if you do something, there's limits on how much you can do each day. Speaker 16
7:11:55 Well, yeah. 7:11:56 I go, and as soon as I stop, that's about it. 7:11:59 I'm just, I have to keep moving. 7:12:01 And I work through a lot of pain. 7:12:02 Like, I'll keep walking. 7:12:03 My feet are numb, but I'm still going. 7:12:05 Because mentally, I need to feel that exhaustion or something to be able to relax. 7:12:13 You know, like, I can't, it's not going to stop me from doing anything. 7:12:16 I'm going to keep doing everything. 7:12:18 But it's just a lot harder to do everything now. Speaker 3
7:12:22 Right, you have to push. Speaker 16
7:12:23 Mm-hmm. 7:12:24 Yeah. 7:12:24 And I have, like I said, I, last night I slept great. 7:12:27 I bought a watch to try to keep track of my sleep score and I slept, I sleep great. 7:12:32 And still I got about an hour and I just need to close my eyes. 7:12:35 I just want to go to sleep. Speaker 3
7:12:36 Right. 7:12:37 After this, you're probably going to go straight to sleep. Speaker 16
7:12:39 Yeah. 7:12:40 Well, we can't, we got to fly home, but. Speaker 3
7:12:43 Okay. 7:12:44 What's, what's been the most difficult part about this? Speaker 16
7:12:48 Just the loss of motivation, you know, like. 7:12:52 In the earlier days, when I was off work, it would be like, oh, my God, I wake up so early. 7:12:59 What am I going to do with myself all day? 7:13:00 Like not feeling like doing anything. 7:13:03 So now it's better. 7:13:04 I'm, you know, keeping busy and stuff. 7:13:06 But, yeah, just the loss of my, the way I was. 7:13:09 Like just full of energy and like go, go, go. 7:13:12 And I never used to sit down. 7:13:14 So now it's just, yeah, I sleep most of the time. 7:13:17 I go to work. 7:13:18 I come home. 7:13:18 I sleep. 7:13:19 And then get up for a little while, have some coffee, and then I go back to bed. 7:13:21 Yeah. Speaker 1
7:13:24 To my colleagues here that don't live in Ontario and understand around the Bay, it's a 30 kilometer race, right? 7:13:31 Very impressive. 7:13:31 So three quarters of a marathon. 7:13:33 So I want to give you kudos for all your, all your, all your energy. 7:13:37 So I, I guess my question is how, how has it affected your family life? Speaker 16
7:13:43 My family have been great. 7:13:44 My kids, like I still convinced my two kids and their teens to get their second dose. 7:13:50 Even after what happened to me, I said, I'm a, 7:13:52 just I'm a rarity like it's just please still get it you know I was still like okay we got to do it we everyone still has to get it done and my daughter fought me tooth and nail to not get it done but I'm like I'm I'm just a rare case you have to get it done I made sure that they still got it which is a little harder to take now that I hear that it's for nothing you know like when it was for something and I believe that yes you guys it's for the greater good you know 7:14:18 And then now it just, it's harder to take now that it's just not for the greater good. 7:14:22 Like this could have all been avoided, which is hard. 7:14:26 And I haven't been around anybody that's, I haven't met anybody. 7:14:28 That's why I'm emotional today is because I haven't talked to anybody that's dealt with any of this. 7:14:33 You know, it's not on the news. 7:14:34 You don't hear people talking about it. 7:14:37 Maybe once in a blue moon. 7:14:38 So then when my friend at work told me about this, I was like, oh, for sure. 7:14:43 You know, at least I can be around other people that have dealt with this stuff. Speaker 1
7:14:47 Have you found it difficult to talk with? 7:14:49 I'm not suggesting family, but friends or acquaintances or neighbours. Speaker 16
7:14:53 Just when someone asks, you know, you always have to preface it by saying, I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I'm not against it, I got it willingly, but this is what happened to me. 7:15:01 And yeah, you always feel there's a little bit of, do I bother telling them what happened to me or not? 7:15:05 You know, like, are they going to believe me that it's from this? 7:15:08 Like, there's always a little bit of, you just don't know what to say. Speaker 1
7:15:12 It's a little bit crazy to think you've got to preface this. 7:15:13 A statement about a vaccine injury by saying you're not anti-vax, right? Speaker 16
7:15:18 Yeah, and I was doing it willingly. 7:15:19 You know, I had to do it for work, but, I mean, I did it. 7:15:22 I wasn't saying, oh, no, I'm not going to do it. 7:15:24 I did it. Speaker 1
7:15:26 Did you say you're still working a bit? Speaker 16
7:15:28 Yeah, now I've gone to retail. 7:15:31 So I've come out of the plant because it's too hard in the plant, too. 7:15:33 It's a lot of lifting and stuff. 7:15:35 So they found me a position in retail, just being in the storefront and, yeah, in Beansville. Speaker 1
7:15:42 Amesville, oh my goodness. Speaker 16
7:15:43 A little post office out there. Speaker 1
7:15:45 Excellent. Speaker 1
7:15:46 I may be familiar with Amesville. Speaker 16
7:15:47 Yeah, yes. Speaker 1
7:15:48 That's my writing. 7:15:49 That's my writing. Speaker 16
7:15:49 And when I looked it up, I was like, oh. Speaker 1
7:15:52 Lived there for many years. 7:15:53 That's great. Speaker 16
7:15:54 So that's where I am now. 7:15:55 At lead hand, I'm going to be at the post office. Speaker 1
7:15:57 Oh, that's good. 7:15:58 And I'm glad to hear that your work has made accommodations. 7:16:00 Totally. Speaker 16
7:16:01 They've been great. 7:16:02 That's part of the battle too, right? 7:16:03 Yes. 7:16:04 Canada Post has been great with it. Speaker 1
7:16:06 Any other questions? 7:16:10 Listen, I'll just say thank you so much. 7:16:13 We understand the toll it takes to travel and come, and we do appreciate sharing your story. 7:16:18 The two stories are the same, but they're similar in terms of what you've got to deal with in terms of mentalness and all the stuff that comes with it. 7:16:26 So thank you so much for coming. Speaker 16
7:16:28 Thank you for having us. Speaker 10
7:16:36 So our next witness is Eva Cavan. Speaker 3
7:16:40 Did I say that right? 7:16:43 Kevin. 7:16:43 Okay. 7:16:44 Well, thank you. 7:16:44 No names are important. 7:16:46 Eva, will you take the Bible in your right hand? Speaker 3
7:16:50 Eva, Kevin, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? 7:16:56 So help you God. 7:17:01 It's counterintuitive. 7:17:02 Red is on. 7:17:03 So thank you. 7:17:04 And you can just leave that on. 7:17:06 I just want to introduce you to the inquiry. 7:17:10 So you are 68 years of age. 7:17:14 Your husband, Peter, is here with you, supporting you, and two of you have a 35-year-old daughter. 7:17:20 You were a registered nurse for 42 years. Speaker 3
7:17:26 Hard to believe, right? 7:17:28 Working full-time, you were in good health, no underlying conditions. 7:17:33 We're going to be talking about eyes. 7:17:37 At age 35, you did have cataracts and have the standard lens replacement. 7:17:42 Mm-hmm. 7:17:43 Tell us what happened. 7:17:45 You got an injection, a Pfizer injection on March 26, 2021. Speaker 18
7:17:53 Yeah, I got the injection. 7:17:58 I was working in the community as an RN, seeing people, a case manager, seeing people in a geriatric program. 7:18:08 And our whole team, we had a team of five. 7:18:11 And we were encouraged to get it because we're working with the geriatric population and they were at risk. 7:18:19 So my turn was coming up and I went on March the 26th, like you said, got my injection. 7:18:27 And I didn't feel anything at the time. 7:18:32 And in between, I had seen my regular eye doctor, which I would go for appointments. 7:18:37 Like right after that, I saw him on March 31st. 7:18:41 Everything was okay. 7:18:43 I had 20-20 vision. Speaker 3
7:18:44 And I'm just going to slow you down. 7:18:46 That was just a regular checkup. Speaker 18
7:18:48 Yeah, like a checkup on my eye for doing. 7:18:51 Yeah. Speaker 3
7:18:51 Yeah, so you weren't going there because you were having a problem. Speaker 3
7:18:55 Okay. 7:18:55 And so you go there and everything is perfect. Speaker 18
7:18:57 It was okay. 7:18:59 And then... 7:19:01 four days later, um, April 4th, you remember all these dates. 7:19:07 I woke up in the morning and my, my eye was feeling a little bit strange, kind of hurting a little bit and looked a little red, but I went into work anyway, 12 hour shift. 7:19:19 So I went there and then as the day was progressing, it started to get redder and redder. 7:19:24 And, um, 7:19:26 It was really bothering me and I took some Tylenol. 7:19:29 It was like very kind of getting really more painful. 7:19:32 I went home and then it started to get worse. 7:19:36 And then my eyes started to get blurry. 7:19:38 And then my eye kind of just filled up with blood and it was looking very, very bad. 7:19:44 My husband could confirm that it was very scary. 7:19:50 So we got in to see the doctor that I had seen. 7:19:55 And he said, what are you doing here? 7:19:56 He just couldn't believe my eye was looking like that and looked in my eye. 7:20:04 And he saw a very strange presentation in my eye, these big snow globes that, you know, a doctor with probably over 30 years experience or so, he said, what is that? 7:20:17 You know, he didn't even know what that was. 7:20:19 And you think if you see a lot of eyes, you would see certain things. 7:20:23 So it was very strange. 7:20:24 But anyway, he treated me right away with the pregnazone drops, lots of drops, you know, every two hours, try to tame it, the inflammation. 7:20:34 It was burning. 7:20:36 It was red. 7:20:37 But it did calm it down. 7:20:40 So we were doing that. 7:20:42 And that was 2021. Speaker 3
7:20:47 Can I just slow you down? 7:20:49 Are you able to see through that eye at this time? Speaker 18
7:20:52 There's more to the story. 7:20:54 At the time after he treated me with the prednisone over the months, I could see with my eye. 7:21:01 It started to get better. 7:21:06 But then I think with the shot, oh, yeah, let me just back up. 7:21:13 Also, he wrote a letter for me to continue working saying that I should not get the second shot. 7:21:22 So I was able to work after that. 7:21:24 So I went back to work and it was like a continuous cycle of the inflammation getting better. 7:21:30 And then my eye pressure increasing and then having to go down on the inflammation drops, which is the pregnazone. 7:21:39 So it was like a continuous cycle. 7:21:42 And I did work up until March, 2022. 7:21:49 I just, it was too much after a while because, you know, you have to read reports and make reports to send to doctors and it was getting very hard. 7:21:58 So I retired early at the age of 64. 7:22:02 And that whole year, you know, was the same thing, the cycle of inflammation, burning, and then it would get better. 7:22:10 Then you would decrease the drops and then it would get worse again. 7:22:14 And then I ended up getting an infection in that eye, being like, 7:22:19 I think immune compromised or so then they had to do a vitrectomy in 2022, which is doing cleaning up the vitreous in your eye and a lot of antibiotics. 7:22:32 And then what happened was my, I got a retina hole in my eye because of all the operations and in my eye. 7:22:42 And so I had to get treated in 2023 for the operations and I, 7:22:48 The hole closed, I had to have my head down for five days so that it would close. 7:22:56 So after that in 2023, it was still the on and off, the prednisone drops and getting better. 7:23:05 And then my cornea was actually scratched, I believe from all the surgeries. 7:23:12 So now I don't see at all. 7:23:14 I only see shadows. 7:23:18 in front of my eye, like a hand going by. 7:23:20 So I am blind in that eye at 2,400. 7:23:26 And so that's what's happened. Speaker 3
7:23:29 So now this inflammation, it's still being managed today. 7:23:33 By prednisone, yeah. 7:23:34 So five years later. 7:23:35 And what happens if you're not managing it? Speaker 18
7:23:38 Yeah. 7:23:39 it'll get very red again and angry looking and burning and feels like somebody's poking me in the eye and my eye starts to water. 7:23:48 And so, you know, I end up using more drops and I continue to go to the doctors when it gets really bad. 7:23:54 And then they just kind of augment my medication and the pressure in my eye goes up because pregnant zone is known for that. 7:24:02 It'll just make your pressure go up and you don't want that to happen. 7:24:06 So, um, um, so, 7:24:10 what now it's like, I just keep, um, taking the drops and, um, hoping to look for, I try to, I try to keep positive. 7:24:20 I do yoga. 7:24:21 I go for walks in nature and I'm hoping that somehow I just find that the, that there's not really a, an answer for me right now. Speaker 3
7:24:33 Yeah. 7:24:34 And where I was going, it's just when we had had an interview, um, 7:24:37 earlier, I think you described it as like, if you're not managing well, it's literally like a red hot poker in your eye. 7:24:44 Like you're talking about severe pain. Speaker 18
7:24:46 Severe pain when it, yeah, when it's bad and then I have to increase the prednisone drops. Speaker 3
7:24:50 Right. 7:24:51 And, and you're like, you're in pain every day with this eye. 7:24:54 Am I right? Speaker 18
7:24:55 Yeah. 7:24:55 Right now I'm not because I really, I know it's coming here. 7:24:58 So I made sure I had extra drops. 7:25:01 It does really help the prednisone, but in 7:25:04 It's the eye pressure that will go up, right? 7:25:07 So it's like a cat and mouse game. 7:25:11 Yeah. Speaker 3
7:25:12 Right. 7:25:13 So you've lost vision in one eye effectively, and you have to manage it to avoid chronic pain. Speaker 18
7:25:19 That's right. Speaker 3
7:25:20 Yeah. 7:25:22 Okay. 7:25:25 So my understanding is you can't drive at night anymore. 7:25:30 You have a hard time reading. Speaker 18
7:25:32 Yeah, I get tired reading books. Speaker 3
7:25:34 You can't do things like playing tennis and you couldn't, you've retired early over this. Speaker 18
7:25:40 Yeah, I did because it just didn't, I didn't have the same energy level, I would say, because, you know, you have to look at a lot of reports and do a lot of, you know, computer work and stuff and your eyes get tired if you just have the one eye. Speaker 3
7:25:59 What's been the hardest part of this? Speaker 18
7:26:03 Well, 7:26:04 the hardest part has been, you know, uh, for me, like waking up every morning, sometimes I have dreams that I wake up and it's gone and my eye is normal again, but, um, that, and also, um, you know, family and friends, I've, um, my family has been very, very supportive, but, you know, sometimes maybe they don't really understand it because they've all had shots and no one has had any injuries. 7:26:33 And that's, 7:26:34 That's my worry because I don't know the long-term effects of all these shots that people have gotten. 7:26:41 And I'm very happy that everybody's okay right now. 7:26:45 In my social circle, I hear a lot of people that had cancer, friends, people that had cancer, people that their father died right after the shot. 7:26:56 And I'm sure a lot of people hear of people that have had problems like that too. 7:27:04 Heart inflammation. Speaker 3
7:27:04 Have you lost some friends over this? Speaker 3
7:27:08 Friendships? Speaker 18
7:27:09 Yeah, because they're really into the shots and they were understanding of my injury, but I don't know. Speaker 3
7:27:23 But the cause of the injury is unacceptable for them, right? 7:27:27 You've lost friendship. 7:27:29 Basically, you've lost an eye and 7:27:32 It's uncomfortable. 7:27:32 If you don't manage it, it's uncontrollable pain. Speaker 18
7:27:36 That's right. Speaker 3
7:27:36 So you're injured. 7:27:39 And if it was anything but vaccine injury, you'd still have friendships with them. Speaker 18
7:27:44 That's right, I guess. Speaker 3
7:27:46 Well, I'm asking you. 7:27:47 Yeah, I know. Speaker 18
7:27:49 I probably would because it caused, you know, two different thoughts of what people think about the whole thing. 7:27:59 vaccination idea about COVID-19 and everybody was scared. 7:28:04 I understand that in the beginning. 7:28:06 And so they're just, and they, and they just want to get on with life, you know, and when you tell someone, and even if you meet someone new, you say, yeah, I was, I'll say that I was injured from the vaccine. 7:28:17 And then they would just say, oh yeah, they just, hmm. Speaker 8
7:28:21 And they were just like, they don't understand it. Speaker 28
7:28:33 Do the doctors recognize you as having as this being a vaccine injury? 7:28:39 And did you have you applied to the government for the compensation at all? Speaker 18
7:28:44 No, I didn't because I heard that it wouldn't be worth it because a lot of people were doing it. 7:28:51 And the doctor, the good doctor that I had wrote the note and he said she should not get the next shot. 7:28:57 So he was very good. 7:29:00 When you go to other appointments, let's say if I go to optometrist and just get checked, no one really mentions the fact that it was from an injury. 7:29:09 It's always like kind of hush-hush or not hush-hush, just like a deafening silence. 7:29:14 Like there's no, they just treat it like a severe uveitis, like a bad inflammation of the eye. 7:29:21 No one talks about it. 7:29:23 And after a while, you don't feel like talking about it with them. Speaker 28
7:29:27 Yeah, I think the fact that you had 7:29:29 been tested, their eyes had 20-20 vision just days before. 7:29:34 Yeah, I was flying. 7:29:36 You know, we're having this discussion now, it's been years, and it's been very intense for some time, but hopefully now that it's a bit more relaxed society and be able to examine this and the repercussions of these vaccines, maybe with a bit more open mind in this 7:29:56 and hopefully be able to make some changes in the future. Speaker 18
7:29:59 I hope so. 7:29:59 I'm very thankful to be here and all the people that applied to be here. 7:30:03 I'm thankful to be talking about it too. 7:30:06 And to Mr. Buckley and MP Ellison, thank you very much for this. 7:30:13 I hope that we can go forward with this and make people be acknowledged that this has happened. Speaker 23
7:30:21 Mr. Austin. 7:30:22 You said that you were an RN. 7:30:25 How did your former colleagues, how do they treat you today? Speaker 18
7:30:29 Yeah, they would have. Speaker 23
7:30:30 Do you have communication with them? Speaker 18
7:30:32 Has it been good? 7:30:34 I kind of lost communication with them because, like, now it's been four years. 7:30:39 So I'm developing new friends in my community. 7:30:43 And I'm just happy. 7:30:47 I don't know. 7:30:48 At the time when I was the person that only had the one shot and they would kind of look at me like, 7:30:53 I should get the second one. 7:30:55 You know, we're in this pandemic kind of thing, right? 7:30:57 But I had the note and I was lucky that way. Speaker 23
7:31:02 It's unfortunate that society has seemed to have changed, that people seem to think if it doesn't affect them, it's not happening around them. 7:31:12 And myself, I'd like to see society get back to looking out for your neighbor, looking out for your friends. Speaker 23
7:31:20 And it seems... 7:31:22 if we don't agree with somebody, well, we can't be their friend, or they can't be our friend. Speaker 18
7:31:26 We're all humans in this world and trying to get by. Speaker 23
7:31:32 Thanks for being here and telling your story. Speaker 18
7:31:33 Yeah, thank you. Speaker 1
7:31:38 Well, thank you very much. 7:31:39 We really appreciate you taking the time to explain what happened and talk about your injury. 7:31:45 As I said, we're really just trying to 7:31:47 promote dialogue and give people permission to speak publicly about these things. 7:31:52 Because as Mike said, you know what, it's okay to disagree with your neighbors. 7:31:57 That doesn't mean you don't have to talk to them anymore. 7:32:00 So we want to get back to where we could still agree to disagree. 7:32:04 That's right. 7:32:05 Thank you so much. Speaker 8
7:32:06 Thank you. 7:32:06 Thank you. Speaker 3
7:32:16 So our next witnesses are Janine Duffy and her daughter, Jennifer Britton. 7:32:26 And so Janine, we'll start with you if you want to take the Bible in your right hand. 7:32:31 So Janine Duffy, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Speaker 3
7:32:39 And then Jennifer, if you want to take the Bible. 7:32:43 Jennifer Britton, do you swear to tell the truth, 7:32:46 the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God. Speaker 3
7:32:52 Now, Janine, I'm going to have you share most of the story, but as I understand it, there's some memory issues and it would help to have... Speaker 2
7:33:02 I think about my pain and what I've gone through, but as for what happened with any doctor, any medical thing, I zone out. 7:33:11 It's like I walk out of that doctor's office and I know nothing. 7:33:14 I know I'm still in pain. 7:33:16 She is the one that listens and tells me afterwards. Speaker 3
7:33:20 Right. 7:33:21 Okay. 7:33:21 So together we'll get a complete story. 7:33:24 I appreciate, Jennifer, your willingness to be here. 7:33:28 Now, Janine, my understanding is you did not have COVID. 7:33:33 There were antibody tests. Speaker 2
7:33:36 I had an antibody test that proved I never had COVID. Speaker 3
7:33:39 Okay. 7:33:40 And you're 66? 7:33:42 Yeah. 7:33:43 You've had two kids, Jennifer and Robert. Speaker 3
7:33:47 And you've got some grandchildren. 7:33:49 And now five to six years before the vaccination, you started working. 7:33:53 You were working as a cashier at a grocery store. Speaker 3
7:33:57 And prior to the vaccination, my understanding is you literally would walk two kilometers to work. Speaker 3
7:34:03 You'd be on your feet at work all day. 7:34:04 Yep. 7:34:05 And then you'd walk two kilometers home. Speaker 2
7:34:07 Yeah, rain or snow. Speaker 3
7:34:09 Right. 7:34:09 Okay. 7:34:10 So this is what's happening daily. 7:34:14 just before this story, just so everyone can understand that. Speaker 2
7:34:18 Oh, and I can go home and cook dinner. 7:34:20 I could garden afterwards. 7:34:21 It's like physical to me was energizing. 7:34:25 So it, the more I did, the more energized I felt. Speaker 3
7:34:31 Okay. 7:34:31 And then I'll just quickly, Jennifer, introduce you to the inquiry. 7:34:35 So you're 43, um, you, you're a mother of three kids and, um, 7:34:41 you're basically here to help support your mother and, and by, you know, profession, you are a real estate convenience. Speaker 12
7:34:48 Yeah. 7:34:48 Yeah. 7:34:49 And I'm here to support her because as soon as that happened, I became her caregiver immediately and kind of rode this whole storm with her, went to every doctor's appointment, have spent hundreds of hours in the emergency room with her. 7:35:00 And I think honestly, that's what kind of got us as far as it did is I was not scared of the emergency room and we went a lot. Speaker 3
7:35:09 Okay. 7:35:10 So let's, um, 7:35:11 Back to you, Janine, is you get a Moderna shot on May 29, 2021. 7:35:21 Can you share with us what happened? Speaker 2
7:35:24 Okay, well, I went and got the Moderna shot, and I had a shift at work right afterwards, which to me, no big deal. 7:35:32 But during that shift, we had to call people over to the grocery lines because of the COVID thing. 7:35:40 But I raised my hand like this, and I was pointing to someone to come over, and I got a pain through my arm, not much of a big deal, but my thumb went numb. 7:35:52 And to this day, it is still numb, and I can feel that every moment of the day. Speaker 3
7:35:59 So you can feel that it's numb? 7:36:01 What's that? 7:36:02 It feels numb every day. Speaker 2
7:36:04 It's numb. 7:36:06 It's like it's all alive. 7:36:08 All of the nerve endings feel like they're alive. 7:36:11 I can touch it. 7:36:12 If she touched it, I'd be jumping through the roof. 7:36:15 So, yeah, it's like, and I'm so used to it now. 7:36:19 And I just know that I do this all the time to keep it so I don't lose it. 7:36:26 Because I'm scared that it's going to go completely numb. Speaker 3
7:36:29 So what happens after that? 7:36:31 So numb is the first thing. Speaker 2
7:36:33 Okay, the thumb I remember... 7:36:35 I just remember the next couple of weeks, I got so weak. 7:36:41 Walking to work, the calves of my legs started to burn. Speaker 3
7:36:46 I just want to slow you down. 7:36:48 We'll get there. 7:36:49 I want to talk about fingers and toes first. Speaker 2
7:36:52 Oh, fingers and toes. 7:36:53 Yeah. 7:36:54 My fingers started to go blue. 7:36:56 Yeah. 7:36:59 And I went to the doctor about that. 7:37:01 And then he asked me to look at my feet as well. 7:37:04 So now I have blue fingers and blue toes. 7:37:09 And he got me into neurology as soon as he possibly could, told me that if it gets any worse, I'm probably going to lose my fingers and my toes. Speaker 3
7:37:21 Did they share with you, and this is more probably for you, Jennifer, what is causing this? Speaker 12
7:37:27 Not initially. 7:37:29 And then in one of our first emergency room visits, it wasn't our family doctor, it was an emergency room visit. 7:37:34 And the doctor there is the one who brought it up. 7:37:37 And when she mentioned that it could be because of the vaccine, we both looked at each other like, what? 7:37:42 Like it was never a thought. 7:37:43 Even the day that she had her thumb go numb, we didn't correlate it because it was safe and effective, right? 7:37:48 There was nothing that would have made us think that it would have been a reaction. 7:37:53 And when we went to get it, it's not like, 7:37:57 we had the fear then, you know, there was always that little bit of, oh, this is strange, but there was no fear. 7:38:02 So we weren't looking for any sort of reaction. 7:38:05 It was a doctor, an emergency room doctor who presented it to us and then put it in a file. 7:38:10 And then from there, the discussion opened, but it did not start from us. Speaker 3
7:38:16 So I want you guys to talk about the purple dots and 7:38:24 On the fingers and toes, because this, I just have to tell you, I've never heard this before. 7:38:29 So can you describe the purple dots and what they did and then what happened? Speaker 2
7:38:35 Okay, so a purple dot, it's like just a tiny little lesion, like a little tiny blood blister. 7:38:41 Now, for days, my daughter and I kind of watched it move up my finger, go towards my fingernail, and once it got under that fingernail, it moved up. 7:38:53 and the pain was excruciating. 7:38:56 I said it was a telephone pole coming out of my fingernail, not a sliver. 7:39:00 And when it actually came to the edge of the nail, there was crystals. 7:39:07 It was like coarse salt. 7:39:09 And it happened to my toes as well. 7:39:12 So during the, I don't know when, but my fingernails and my toenails completely changed. 7:39:20 But the pain that I felt 7:39:23 When these things were coming up through my fingernails, yeah, I just wanted to die. 7:39:31 It was painful. Speaker 12
7:39:32 And sometimes they would look like an under the skin bruise and you would watch that move. 7:39:37 And sometimes they would come to the surface and be a wound on the outside. 7:39:41 And then that wound would move to the outer surfaces. 7:39:45 And they always started somewhere and went to the farthest extremity. 7:39:48 So she got them on the tips of her ear. 7:39:51 her fingers and her toes and they came out the fingernail beds. Speaker 3
7:39:55 Right. 7:39:55 Crystals. Speaker 12
7:39:56 Crystals. Speaker 3
7:39:57 So, so yeah. 7:39:59 So David, you're anticipating what I want. 7:40:01 So. Speaker 12
7:40:02 And it's very hard to see blue in a photo. 7:40:04 So I tried many times to get some of these photos and as we all know. Speaker 3
7:40:08 Is this photo up? Speaker 3
7:40:10 Okay. 7:40:11 So, so this is a photo of Janine's hands and the, the longest finger you can see that it's blue in the photograph. 7:40:20 Um, 7:40:20 But what you're saying is the photograph really does not do much justice here. Speaker 2
7:40:26 No, because when I first went to the doctor and it was purple and he was very nervous and he told me if it gets any worse to go to emergency right away. 7:40:37 Because he said if it gets any worse, he said you actually could lose your fingers and your toes because it looks like maybe gangrene. Speaker 3
7:40:46 Okay, let's go to the next photo. 7:40:49 So this is kind of the blue dots now move to the end of the finger, right? 7:40:54 Yeah. 7:40:55 But it would start in the hand or on the finger. Speaker 2
7:40:58 Like on the knuckles, and then it would kind of move on up. 7:41:02 And as it moved up, it seemed to get a little bigger. 7:41:07 And then by the time it got to my fingernail. Speaker 3
7:41:10 And that looks sore to me. Speaker 2
7:41:12 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 3
7:41:13 Hey, David, do you want to go to the next one? 7:41:16 So this is where a crystal would come out, right? 7:41:18 This has happened on the toe? Speaker 2
7:41:20 Yeah, in the toenails, you can sort of see things. 7:41:23 But the bottom of my toe, where that round thing is, that started off as just the tiniest little mark. 7:41:31 And then it grew and grew and grew, and you could see my bone through the hole. Speaker 12
7:41:37 It became a gaping hole, and it looked like this for about nine months. 7:41:42 Yeah. 7:41:43 And it would not go away. 7:41:44 Yeah. 7:41:44 Yeah. 7:41:45 And you can still see it today, but it's not open any longer. 7:41:49 But you can see on the second toe that the nail doesn't, I used to call it like ogre toes. 7:41:56 I'm like, you now have these like big, ugly man nails on your toes that you never had before. 7:42:03 And they came out of nowhere. 7:42:05 It was so fast. Speaker 3
7:42:08 So let's go. 7:42:08 You were starting to talk about muscle weakness. 7:42:10 I just I wanted us. Speaker 2
7:42:11 No, that's that's it. 7:42:13 Yeah, I just I felt like I was getting weaker now at work. 7:42:18 I also as a personal shopper. 7:42:20 So I would go and grab milk out of the cooler to put in my bike. 7:42:24 I could no longer pick up a bag of milk. 7:42:25 It was taking two arms to get a bag of milk. 7:42:29 I went to grab a thing of orange juice, dropped it. 7:42:34 And it's like, OK. 7:42:35 there's something definitely, definitely wrong. 7:42:38 But that was after I'd even gone to the doctor about my hands. 7:42:42 So I was just getting weaker. 7:42:44 I think within a couple of weeks, I was, I could no longer go to work. 7:42:48 I couldn't stay on my feet for more than five minutes. 7:42:53 If I touch something, I felt like I was going to break. 7:42:56 Like if I would touch this, my hand felt like it was going to break. 7:42:59 I felt like I was either like breaking like glass or 7:43:04 or a total infant and it's like i i have no idea what is going on so um you're clearly having a severe reaction do you take a second shot i did because we did not correlate this at all i did not think of this whatsoever it's like okay maybe i'm just getting old real real quick um Speaker 3
7:43:28 Now, Jennifer, you have a different story of the evidence here. 7:43:32 So can you share with us a conversation you had? 7:43:34 Yeah. Speaker 12
7:43:36 Of course. 7:43:36 So this was still around the time where we had seen our family doctor and he's the one who told me, if you see any changes, go to eMERGE, go to eMERGE. 7:43:44 And it's hard. 7:43:45 Nobody wants to go to eMERGE, especially at that time. 7:43:48 And it was really difficult. 7:43:49 We spent a lot of hours there waiting. 7:43:51 And she was in a lot of pain the one day. 7:43:54 And it just so happened to be the day prior to her second shot's 7:44:00 And we went to Emerge. 7:44:01 We spent all night there. 7:44:03 All night long, I think we left at 8 a.m. and her appointment was at 11 a.m. And I remember asking the emergency room doctors there who let us go if she should be going for that appointment. Speaker 3
7:44:12 Can I just ask you to talk a little slower? Speaker 12
7:44:15 Oh, sorry. 7:44:15 Yes. Speaker 3
7:44:16 Because we've got transcriptionists. Speaker 12
7:44:18 Of course, I know. 7:44:19 And I'll go real quick, too. 7:44:20 I need to be slowed down. Speaker 3
7:44:22 So, yeah. 7:44:22 So please slow down or they won't have a chance. Speaker 12
7:44:24 No problem. 7:44:26 So they told us, yes, she should absolutely go and get that second one, that it was very important that she did that or she could get worse. 7:44:34 So sorry. 7:44:35 So she could get worse. 7:44:36 So we did go through with that appointment. 7:44:39 And when we got there, they do their regular questioning and they asked, we asked them if it was still a good idea for her to get this second shot because she had just been in the emergency room, that her fingers were blue, that she was in a lot of pain. 7:44:56 And it was actually a doctor who administered that second vaccine. 7:44:59 And she said, absolutely. 7:45:00 Yes. 7:45:01 You're best off to get this vaccine today so that you don't get worse. 7:45:05 So we were told the same thing by that doctor. 7:45:07 And I was really hesitant, but the appointment was booked. 7:45:11 So we did it. 7:45:12 And she did get that shot. Speaker 3
7:45:15 You know, the reasoning that we had, I think, Senator Ron Johnson here yesterday going, and somebody else said it too, it's like, okay, so the vaccine is supposed to protect you from getting COVID. 7:45:27 So if it works and that's true, why do you care if somebody's unvaccinated? 7:45:31 Because you're protected. 7:45:32 Why do you care about them? 7:45:35 So you're injured from the vaccine. 7:45:37 So the solution is to take more of the vaccine? Speaker 12
7:45:41 And Moderna was the second shot as well. 7:45:43 And it was within, I believe it was 48 hours, maybe 36 hours. 7:45:48 And she texted me. 7:45:50 She lives alone in her own apartment. 7:45:52 And she's on the second floor with no elevator, just to put that in. 7:45:56 And she texted me at 5 a.m. to say, I can't move. 7:45:59 And I was like, well, what does that mean? 7:46:01 And I rushed over to her place. 7:46:03 I'm only 10 minutes away. 7:46:04 And when I got into her apartment, she was literally clung to the corner, to the wall. 7:46:09 She was holding on to the wall because she couldn't hold herself up and she couldn't walk to anywhere in her tiny little one bedroom apartment. 7:46:18 And to be honest, I wanted to call. Speaker 2
7:46:20 So Janine, that's when I started looking backwards. 7:46:24 That's the only way I just could shuffle my feet very, very slightly backwards. 7:46:28 I could not go forward. 7:46:30 I could not go sideways. 7:46:31 I could shuffle backwards. 7:46:33 And that's how I went down three flights of stairs is like backwards hanging on. Speaker 12
7:46:37 Because we were in this strange denial state where we're like, this can't be real. 7:46:41 And we had so many times that this can't be real. Speaker 3
7:46:43 Just hang on. 7:46:44 So Janine, so you've woken up and something's changed. 7:46:49 You actually can't walk forward. 7:46:51 The only way you can move is backwards. 7:46:55 What's going through your mind? 7:46:56 Like what's the experience? Speaker 2
7:47:01 I'm going to say total confusion and absolute terrified because I had no idea. 7:47:07 Is this going to be my life? 7:47:08 Am I just going to drop right here? 7:47:12 Is pain going to be the rest of my life because I'd been in pain for a couple of weeks already? 7:47:17 I was absolutely terrified. 7:47:20 It's like, 7:47:21 I didn't know. 7:47:22 I didn't have a flu. Speaker 3
7:47:23 And my understanding is that you also started to shake. 7:47:27 Can you talk about that? 7:47:28 What's that? 7:47:29 My understanding is your body was shaking too at that time. Speaker 2
7:47:32 Oh, yeah. Speaker 3
7:47:32 Can you share about that? Speaker 2
7:47:35 My legs absolutely started to shake. 7:47:38 I had no control. 7:47:39 I don't feel like it was a seizure at all, but everything was just not right. 7:47:44 It's like I was jerky. 7:47:46 I was not right. 7:47:48 It's very hard to describe when you're going through things. Speaker 3
7:47:53 Okay. 7:47:53 Now, today, you've gone from being able to walk two kilometers for being on your feet all day and then walking back. 7:48:04 You can maybe have 10 minutes on your feet. 7:48:07 Yeah. 7:48:08 And then that's it. Speaker 2
7:48:09 The burning. 7:48:10 The burning. 7:48:11 And it's like I can feel, it feels like the bottom of my feet almost get lumpy. 7:48:18 Or that I'm walking on like broken seashells. 7:48:23 So, and when I look at my feet, they look absolutely normal. 7:48:26 I thought I was having phantom pain for the longest time. 7:48:29 It's like, this is not real. 7:48:30 Maybe I'm just imagining it. 7:48:32 Because it's like none of it made any sense. 7:48:35 I've never even heard of half of this stuff. Speaker 3
7:48:37 Now, I've seen you today using a walker to get around. Speaker 3
7:48:41 But you were in a wheelchair for six months, and then you had to graduate up to being able to use a wheelchair. Speaker 2
7:48:47 Well, when I was going through a lot of testing and my legs were just not working properly, and I finally went to my family doctor, and it's like, okay, I know they've done all these tests. 7:48:58 Can I please get an X-ray on my hips? 7:49:03 And I got the X-ray. 7:49:05 They had me into hip surgery very, very quickly. 7:49:10 When I went, the doctor had told me, he says, oh, my God, your hips are absolutely destroyed because of lack of circulation. Speaker 12
7:49:20 And what he said then as well is that this must have been going on for 10 years to get to this point. 7:49:26 And we laughed and we're like, no, she was walking beautifully six months ago and he didn't believe us. 7:49:32 Because he says it's impossible. 7:49:34 There's no way that it could be this deteriorated that quickly. 7:49:38 And I was like, well, you should have seen her walk not long ago. Speaker 3
7:49:43 Right. 7:49:44 So, Jennifer, what's the effect been on you and the experience? 7:49:48 You shared with us that you basically become a caregiver to your mother because, Janine, you've had to stop cooking and you have trouble holding things. 7:49:59 You do need assistance now. 7:50:01 Jennifer, what's it been like on you and Speaker 12
7:50:05 Honestly, it changed everything. 7:50:07 Everything overnight. 7:50:09 You know, after that first vaccine, there was a couple of doctor's appointments, things like that. 7:50:13 So we were just a little bit worried. 7:50:14 But after that second one, and she was basically immobile, I took over. 7:50:20 I took over. 7:50:21 And, you know, we didn't, listening to some of these other stories, you know, we didn't have a farm to sell. 7:50:25 We didn't have a business to sell. 7:50:27 It was financial ruin almost immediately. 7:50:30 She lives alone. 7:50:31 She's an independent woman who worked at a grocery store. 7:50:33 She was not in a position to lose her job overnight. 7:50:37 And that was another element to this story that was very difficult. 7:50:42 She never went back to work and, you know, still to this day hasn't. 7:50:45 We struggled to get her resources in every facet. 7:50:49 I work full time. 7:50:50 I'm a mom of three. 7:50:50 I was raising my three kids at home by myself on a single income, trying to help out my mom who's now disabled and without an income. 7:50:58 And for a lot of you, I'm sure you're aware, it's not easy to get yourself on disability or CPP disability now. 7:51:04 I needed to get her a PSW into the house. 7:51:08 I would stop by every day after work, pick up her laundry, do her laundry. 7:51:12 make sure she was, make sure she had things to eat and I would bring her meals, make sure she was okay just to have someone visit her. 7:51:22 Because when all of this happened, she gave up her entire social life for one, because she didn't feel well. 7:51:27 And two, we didn't talk about it. 7:51:29 We didn't talk about it to most people and they didn't, nobody wanted to hear it either. Speaker 3
7:51:33 Right. 7:51:35 That's the theme. 7:51:35 Now, Janine, my last question for you is I'd asked you during the interview, what, 7:51:42 what was the most dangerous part? 7:51:43 You listed a couple of things and one was losing your son, Robert, because he was scared of you. 7:51:49 Can you share with us what that's all about? Speaker 2
7:51:52 My son, when he found out what was going on, he would not be able to handle seeing me in pain. 7:52:02 So I talked to him often, but there was no way he was going to come and visit because he just couldn't handle it. 7:52:09 Yeah. 7:52:10 And then 7:52:11 He suddenly just passed away, and he was 42. Speaker 3
7:52:16 What do you mean he suddenly passed away? Speaker 2
7:52:20 Well, we got a phone call, and they said that, yeah, he had passed away. 7:52:27 Now, we had asked him not to get the COVID shot until we knew kind of thing, but he went and got the COVID shot, and then he went and got the flu shot, and he died, and I think it was... Speaker 12
7:52:42 It took quite a few months to get his autopsy report. 7:52:44 And his autopsy report came out saying that he had some heart issues, some lung and liver issues. 7:52:52 But the ultimate cause was bacterial pneumonia, which he wasn't sick when he died. 7:52:59 Like he, you know, he was we talked to him a few days before and, you know, he was OK. And then I got it wasn't a phone call. 7:53:06 Actually, it was a knock on my door from a police officer to say that my brother was gone. 7:53:10 which was really hard because I had been trying to get him to come down and visit my mom because I was taking care of her by myself. 7:53:17 And he struggled with that because he didn't, she was a tough woman and she always has been. 7:53:22 And he didn't want to see her weak. 7:53:25 So he never got to see her after she fell ill. Speaker 9
7:53:29 So I never got to see him either. Speaker 12
7:53:36 And to me, that's been the hardest part is I feel like I lost my little best friend and who she was because she's a different person now. 7:53:42 But I also lost my brother because he couldn't handle it. Speaker 8
7:53:47 And now he's gone. Speaker 12
7:53:55 And that's, you know, of course, it's a different story, but listening to the others. 7:53:59 Today, you know, it really hits it home for everyone who suffered through those losses as well. 7:54:04 And it's been really hard. 7:54:05 And I know that I feel like I'm sitting here today for all those other voices, you know, and I'll take Abigail and Dominic's story and everyone else who had their losses and take those with me today, too. 7:54:16 And that's why we're here to share, because we felt like we've lived in. 7:54:22 isolation we get out and we still do things but the conversations that we have feel padded and they shouldn't I've never looked at someone and judged them because they told me their family member had cancer or had diabetes or MS or some other ailment but this one they look at me funny and even some of my personal close friends today we've just chosen that we're just not going to talk about anymore so we can remain friends and I'd rather do that than you know 7:54:51 have the disagreements and things like that. 7:54:53 I don't want the divide. Speaker 10
7:54:54 Thank you. Speaker 23
7:55:02 You had mentioned long-term disability and CPP. 7:55:06 Have you filed and got any of that, any of those programs? Speaker 2
7:55:11 I have filed for the vaccine injury and I did that in August of 2022. 7:55:17 I talked 7:55:20 to someone the beginning of July, because I called them, I don't remember why, but they told me that, no, my folder's still sitting there, and it has 111 pages sitting there, and that's where it's at. Speaker 23
7:55:38 They never gave you a timeline of how long? Speaker 2
7:55:40 I asked him, and he said, no, we have no idea. 7:55:42 We're still going through paperwork, but my file is sitting there with 1,100 per 7:55:47 1100 pages? 7:55:48 111. 7:55:49 Yeah, 111. 7:55:52 And that's all I heard from them. 7:55:53 I was on disability for a while. 7:55:57 And I'm on CPP. 7:56:02 But when I went to see if I could get on disability CPP, I don't know how to do that stuff. 7:56:09 And it said something like, you have to be under 65. 7:56:12 So once I turned 65, it's like, okay, I've got nothing now. 7:56:16 When I was on disability, I was able to get transportation for free so I could get to hospital appointments without having to call my daughter. 7:56:25 Now I got nothing. 7:56:27 So I don't know. 7:56:28 And yeah, there was eight months where I had to go through, I don't remember the name. Speaker 12
7:56:35 It's called iloprostin fusions was one of the only treatments that she's had over the last few years that gave her some resolve with the circulation issues. 7:56:45 They actually started her on Viagra. 7:56:47 And that was helpful, but again, is very expensive. 7:56:51 And she didn't have insurance at the time. 7:56:53 So we were fortunate to have a rheumatologist who booked her for iloprost infusions. 7:56:57 It took about six months for them to approve this. 7:57:03 And she went for eight months worth of treatments for that. 7:57:06 They were three-day-in-a-row treatments, and, you know, I worked full-time, and I had to go to work as well. 7:57:11 So we were able to find some sort of ride program that was available to her, but as soon as she turned 65, for some reason, that got cut off. Speaker 23
7:57:21 Just to reach out to when you were going to be 7:57:25 for helping, none of us deal with this. Speaker 2
7:57:27 There was a community worker that came and she said, I've helped you fill out all the paperwork and I'm going to get a hold of people and there's community things that will get in touch with you. 7:57:37 And I heard from nothing. 7:57:39 And I'm not very good at reaching out because I don't know what to do. Speaker 23
7:57:43 I got one last question. 7:57:44 It's a short one. 7:57:46 The crystals that come out through the fingers and toes, did they ever test that to see what it was? 7:57:53 Anybody ever Speaker 2
7:57:54 No, and I did have a little bit saved and I could not find it afterwards. 7:58:00 I could not find it, but I told the doctor about it and she actually saw a little bit that was under my toenail. 7:58:06 And she said, oh my God, like I've never seen that before. 7:58:09 And that was really basically the end of that. 7:58:12 I also want to say that, okay, inflammation, I get that a lot, especially with the rain. 7:58:18 And there is absolutely no medication that I can take without making me sick. 7:58:24 So I am stone cold, cannot take medication. 7:58:28 The only one that helped was hydromorphone, which is an opioid. 7:58:34 And that one, as soon as I could get off of that, I was off of that. 7:58:37 That was dark moments. Speaker 22
7:58:40 Thank you for telling your story. 7:58:42 Thank you, Mr. Ross. 7:58:42 Mr. Mahal. Speaker 25
7:58:44 Yes. 7:58:46 The question that bothers me is you get a vaccine and you get injury for that. 7:58:53 And there are two different things, not getting vaccine and getting vaccine and getting injured after that. 7:59:00 So when you talk to people and they are not able to say or relate to that, that there is a difference. 7:59:06 What do you think is that needs to be done as a society as what's missing there? Speaker 2
7:59:13 Information. 7:59:14 If I'd have had more information on what was going, like what was happening, 7:59:21 I probably would not have gotten the vaccine, but I was essential worker. 7:59:24 Yeah, I don't know. 7:59:29 I just I I feel like we were lied to. 7:59:34 And the information that just wasn't out there and being this dirty little secret. Speaker 12
7:59:40 I believe advocacy is another one as well. 7:59:42 And being the lucid person who was healthy, who spent this much time in the hospital with someone who was unwell and watching and hearing other people try and navigate the system and how quickly they were turned away and denied and spent hours and hours in the hospital. 7:59:59 And it's really hard to advocate for yourself. 8:00:01 And I know my mom would be in a very different position if I hadn't been there fighting for her beside her as well. 8:00:07 So I think... 8:00:08 That's a piece we're lacking. 8:00:10 And I thought this many times as we were driving to the emergency room saying, man, I wish everybody had someone like me beside them because they deserve it. Speaker 10
8:00:21 Thank you. Speaker 1
8:00:23 Ladies, thank you very much, Jean, and for being such a strong advocate for your mom. Speaker 12
8:00:28 Thank you. Speaker 1
8:00:28 Not everyone has a chance to have a strong advocate. 8:00:31 I think that makes a big difference as well. Speaker 2
8:00:34 Thank you guys very much for doing this. 8:00:36 We appreciate it. Speaker 3
8:00:42 So our next witness is Dr. Charles Hoff. 8:00:46 Charles, I didn't ask you if you're open to swearing on the Bible or whether you'd like to. Speaker 24
8:00:51 I would like to swear on the Bible. Speaker 3
8:00:53 If you take the Bible in your right hand. 8:00:57 Dr. Charles Hoff, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Speaker 3
8:01:05 Now, you're a medical doctor. 8:01:07 Can you describe for us 8:01:10 where your practice is and kind of describe your practice and how long you've been there. Speaker 24
8:01:17 I'm a family doctor and former ER doctor. 8:01:22 I live and work in Lytton, B.C. 8:01:24 It's a small, mostly First Nations community in the southern interior of British Columbia. 8:01:30 And I've been there since 1993. Speaker 3
8:01:33 So don't make me do the math. 8:01:37 How many years? Speaker 24
8:01:37 So that's 20, 33 years. Speaker 3
8:01:40 Okay. 8:01:42 So you, and you're, are you the only doctor? Speaker 24
8:01:45 I'm the only doctor that lives in that town. 8:01:47 There are some others that come in periodically that sort of cycle through it, but no, I'm the only, I'm the town doctor. Speaker 3
8:01:54 Okay. 8:01:54 So you're the town doctor and in this, like Lytton really is out of the way. 8:02:02 Like, isn't it like three and a half hours to 8:02:06 It's about four hours to Vancouver, three hours to Kelowna, two hours to Kamloops. 8:02:10 Right, but Kamloops and Kelowna themselves are small cities. 8:02:14 Yes. 8:02:15 Okay, so you're the doctor, 33 years. 8:02:21 Can you tell us what happened when COVID hit? Speaker 24
8:02:25 When COVID hit, obviously there was a lot of hype from the legacy media that 8:02:35 And I was initially quite afraid. 8:02:38 I heard that there were doctors and nurses in China who were dying trying to save these desperately ill people. 8:02:45 And so the first thing that happened was that the regional health authority divided our ER into two parts, a COVID section and a non-COVID section. 8:02:56 They made a negative pressure room where we were going to be putting people on ventilators. 8:03:01 And we were expecting the tsunami of 8:03:04 desperately ill patients to come in. 8:03:06 We had to practice suiting up in hazmat suits and taking them off in the right sequence and, you know, and running drills, basically getting ready for all of these desperately ill patients. Speaker 3
8:03:16 So one thing that's interesting is, you know, we had Senator Johnson here yesterday and he's talking about the Fauci diaries. 8:03:24 I mean, this is the guy that really for the world set the stage and anyone can read these diaries. 8:03:32 They've been released. 8:03:33 to the public. 8:03:35 And it's clear that, you know, Fauci is discussing with other people how this is really no worse than a bad flu season. Speaker 3
8:03:44 And we have every few years we have a bad flu season. 8:03:48 So really, there was nothing unusual. 8:03:50 This is going to be a bad flu season, according to the expert. 8:03:54 And I think you'd agree with me. 8:03:56 We now know that if the government hadn't done anything, we would have had a bad flu season. 8:04:01 But what does it do psychologically to healthcare workers like yourself when you're being told, no, this is it. 8:04:08 This is like the 1918 flu. 8:04:12 This is like you guys are going through drills where you're going into hazmat suits. 8:04:18 You're building a negative pressure room. 8:04:20 What does this do to the psychological makeup of the healthcare people that are now expecting this, I think you said, tsunami of COVID cases? Speaker 24
8:04:30 it was clearly designed to create fear. 8:04:34 And fear in the 8:04:38 in the medical community, in the whole community. 8:04:41 And our ER was literally the quietest that it had ever been. 8:04:45 People were too afraid. 8:04:47 People were sitting at home with chest pain and serious things that should have come into the ER. 8:04:52 And they were too afraid to go to the ER because they thought that's where all the dying COVID people are. 8:04:58 And so in DR ERs all over the country, 8:05:04 The staff were twiddling their thumbs waiting for the tsunami. Speaker 3
8:05:08 And I'm just going to stop you there because that's going to shock people. 8:05:12 Because the mainstream media was basically telling us that ER rooms were full. 8:05:19 Yes. 8:05:20 Like we saw those stories. 8:05:22 And I know from other proceedings I've been in and other doctors that I've questioned under oath that they've said the same things as you. 8:05:31 that their ERs were empty. 8:05:32 They've never been so slow. 8:05:35 And I know I personally had to go to the ER twice during COVID just actually because I got wounded and then got infected. 8:05:44 And so they had to cut it open and redo it. 8:05:48 And I walked in and there's no one there and I'm treated right away. 8:05:51 And the second time they actually, can some med students come and can we film this? 8:05:58 wound care, because we have nothing to do. 8:06:00 I've never experienced that before, where twice I walk into ER and it's empty, and I'm the only one there, and there's nothing happening. 8:06:12 There's no other patients. 8:06:13 There's nothing happening. 8:06:15 And that's what you experienced. Speaker 24
8:06:17 That is exactly what I experienced. 8:06:19 And the crazy part was... 8:06:23 In Lytton, where I worked, and apparently it was right across the world because I have family in South Africa, and they told me it was the same. 8:06:28 At 7 o'clock in the evening, people would come out and they would sort of parade past these ERs, honking their horns, you know, and thanking these frontline heroes that are saving all these lives. 8:06:41 And I would go and stand there while all these community members were driving by with signs, you know, thank you, heroes. 8:06:50 And I felt like a complete fraud because we hadn't had a single COVID patient, not one. 8:06:56 And in fact, you know, so our ER happened to burn to the ground 18 months after the start of the pandemic. 8:07:06 And by that time, we still had not had one single patient in our town that needed any care for COVID whatsoever. 8:07:14 And so I felt like a complete fraud because I was the hero that had done nothing. Speaker 3
8:07:19 So how far into the pandemic was it? Speaker 24
8:07:21 That it burned. 8:07:23 So the pandemic started beginning of 2020, and it all burned on the end of June 2021. 8:07:29 So it was pretty well... Speaker 3
8:07:31 And not a single case. Speaker 24
8:07:34 Not even just in the ER. 8:07:35 In the entire community, there hadn't been a single. 8:07:38 There'd been people with COVID, but it was just a bad flu. 8:07:42 Nobody needed hospital care. 8:07:44 Nobody. 8:07:44 No, it was absurd. Speaker 3
8:07:48 Okay. 8:07:49 So I think that's going to shock some people. 8:07:51 Yeah. 8:07:53 So now things change, though, when the vaccine comes out. Speaker 3
8:08:00 Can you share what your experience with the vaccine was? Speaker 24
8:08:03 Yes, that's when the ER started to get busy because, you know, as Senator Johnson mentioned yesterday, one of the side effects of the vaccine was that you would get COVID. 8:08:16 You know, it literally... And, of course, these people who got... 8:08:21 COVID within two weeks of their vaccination was still considered unvaccinated. 8:08:26 You weren't statistically considered vaccinated until two weeks after your second shot. 8:08:34 So they would quote this as unvaccinated people with COVID. 8:08:38 Meanwhile, the reason why they had it is because their immune system was suppressed by their COVID shot, and they were more likely to get COVID. 8:08:47 And so that's when all the COVID 8:08:51 cases really started needing care was once the vaccine rollout started. 8:08:56 And it wasn't just people with COVID, but it was also the vaccine injuries. Speaker 3
8:09:01 So again, I think that's a point that will shock people. 8:09:06 And I know that when Senator Johnson was here yesterday, he was also talking about that, how there's evidence that the more shots you had, and we're going to have a witness testify with 8:09:19 brand new research using Ontario health data showing, I think about six months into the pandemic, it seemed that the vaccine was causing COVID or a side effect of the vaccine is you're more likely to catch COVID 8:09:35 And I think the first study that came out that I became aware of was the Cleveland Clinic. 8:09:40 Correct. 8:09:40 Can you share, you're familiar with that? 8:09:42 I'm quite familiar, yeah. 8:09:43 What did that study show? 8:09:44 And can you explain what the Cleveland Clinic was and how they collected that data? Speaker 24
8:09:48 Yeah, so that Cleveland study was, I mean, there's since been a number of other studies that have retested that. 8:09:55 So that was research done, I believe it was to test the effectiveness of the COVID booster that was designed for the Omicron variant. 8:10:06 variant. 8:10:07 And so this was a study on 51,000 healthcare workers in Cleveland. 8:10:16 It was basically a study designed to show how effective this booster was. 8:10:21 And so they this was health care workers. 8:10:23 And so not all of them had had the vaccines because they weren't mandated there. 8:10:28 So some had had none. 8:10:30 Some had had one shot. 8:10:31 Some had had two. 8:10:32 And at that point, the Omicron one was there. 8:10:35 Some people had had four shots. 8:10:38 And what they found was a direct correlation that the people that were getting COVID the least were the unvaccinated. 8:10:46 And literally the more shots you had, the more often and the more likely you would get COVID and the people that had it the most, were getting COVID the most, were the most vaccinated. 8:10:58 In other words, the people that had had the Omicron booster. Speaker 3
8:11:05 One of the things that's interesting about 8:11:07 And as you say, and I'm aware that there are other studies. 8:11:11 In fact, I don't think there's a study that shows anything different. 8:11:15 And this inquiry is going to have some original research using Ontario data to show the same thing. 8:11:22 There's a portion of the population that everyone understands there's deaths around us and injuries. 8:11:28 And I mean, here we've had all this testimony today about that. 8:11:32 But a large number of people believe that, well, yeah, but it's caused by long COVID. 8:11:38 So thank goodness we had the vaccine to protect people from long COVID. 8:11:42 They might be shocked to learn that no, actually the vaccine, and the major side effect is that you're more likely to get COVID. 8:11:47 So if long COVID is the cause of this, then by that logic, long COVID is a vaccine injury. Speaker 3
8:11:54 Let alone, we also know that likely it's more vaccine injury than long COVID anyway. Speaker 24
8:12:01 But the other thing that this shows is that the vaccine rollout prolonged the pandemic. 8:12:07 by making people more likely to get COVID. 8:12:11 So rather than this being our way out of the pandemic, it did the exact opposite. 8:12:16 Because more people got COVID, the more boosters you got, the more likely you would get COVID and the second, you know, and so, I mean, there's so much data from it. Speaker 3
8:12:28 I want to bring this back down to your experience, though. 8:12:30 So you're 8:12:32 People are coming in for COVID in your community, but it's just nothing that requires hospitalization or anything different than how you treat a flu. 8:12:42 What type of injuries were you seeing from the vaccine and what did you do about it? Speaker 24
8:12:46 Well, so initially I saw neurological injuries. 8:12:49 So people say, well, what's a neurological injury? 8:12:52 So you may have noticed from the many of the witnesses that we've had here that 8:12:57 A very common side effect was pain. 8:13:01 You know, some have complained of literally like a fire in their brain, burning in their head. 8:13:07 I had patients with burning under their feet, burning in their hands, burning in some parts of their body. 8:13:14 But for other people, it was just shooting pains. 8:13:17 Many people described like electrical jolts shooting down their limbs. 8:13:23 That would keep them up all night or just be day and night, just tortured by pain. 8:13:28 So pain was a frequent one. 8:13:31 But the other one was weakness, where they now had difficulty walking or difficulty. 8:13:36 I had three patients with with weak hands. 8:13:39 I mean, one of them and it was equally weak on both sides, which means that it's this is something that's affected your brain. 8:13:47 Well, it would either have to be both sides of your brain or your spinal cord for it to have a symmetrical weakness. 8:13:54 So I had one lady who said she had to get all the door handles in her house changed because they were round knobs. 8:14:03 And she, even with both hands, didn't have enough strength to open the doors in her house. 8:14:07 So she had to have them switched to a change to a lever type door handle. 8:14:14 So weakness, dizziness. 8:14:17 light sensitivity, sound sensitivity, cranial neuropathies. 8:14:22 So we've had a couple of people here with Bell's palsies. 8:14:26 I had one 38-year-old patient who had five cranial nerves. 8:14:29 So Bell's palsy is a cranial nerve, seventh cranial nerve paralysis. 8:14:34 So I had one patient, 38 years old, who had five cranial. 8:14:38 So she first got a 8:14:40 Bell's palsy on one side, a month later on the other side. 8:14:43 She couldn't move her tongue, so she could hardly speak and had difficulty eating. 8:14:47 She had terrible trigeminal pain, which is pain in your face. 8:14:52 And these are 8:14:55 So initially, so this was mostly what I was seeing initially with these neurological injuries. 8:15:01 So the first thing I did was to try and find a neurologist who would assess these patients. 8:15:07 And so I phoned three regional, major regional hospitals that I usually send patients to. 8:15:13 I phoned three. 8:15:14 Royal Inland Hospital in Kamloops, getting no joy there. 8:15:19 I phoned Vancouver General Hospital and St. Paul's, who are the two biggest hospitals in Vancouver, phoned their neurology departments and said, I've got six seriously injured people from the COVID vaccines. 8:15:31 They need to be urgently assessed to find out what's going on and what do we do. 8:15:37 And in every case, as soon as you say it's a vaccine injury, 8:15:42 The phone would go silent and they'd say, this is not our field of expertise. 8:15:47 Try elsewhere. 8:15:48 And they wouldn't touch it. 8:15:50 They wouldn't touch it. 8:15:53 And eventually I said, well, this is way out of my realm as a family doctor. 8:16:00 I've never seen such things before. 8:16:02 And so they gave me the name of a neurologist who they thought might be willing. 8:16:06 So I sent him six referral letters on my six most seriously injured patients. 8:16:11 neurological patients and marked them as urgent referrals. 8:16:15 They were given appointments for five months ahead. 8:16:18 As soon as you say it's a vaccine, they don't want to touch it. 8:16:23 So with one of them, who was the 38-year-old with five cranial nerve palsies, on the day that he finally saw her, he admitted her to St. Paul's Hospital for eight days to try and figure out what was going on. 8:16:35 I mean, in this, she'd waited 8:16:37 Five months for her appointment. 8:16:39 And she instantly admitted. 8:16:41 So, I mean, these people, I think, I don't know whether they thought I was exaggerating. 8:16:46 And, of course, it doesn't show on the test. 8:16:48 This is like a stealth weapon. 8:16:50 What this spike protein did, I mean, I can see why it's, you know, it was, the first patent art was. Speaker 3
8:16:58 So can I just back you up? 8:17:00 Because I'm curious. 8:17:01 You're phoning the neurology departments in. 8:17:07 Royal Inland Hospital. Speaker 3
8:17:09 And then VGA and then... And St. Paul's. 8:17:12 St. Paul's. 8:17:13 And I imagine normally when you call and do a referral, they just set up the referral. Speaker 24
8:17:18 Well, normally if you phone, they will say, okay, have them come in to ER. Speaker 3
8:17:23 Has this ever happened where they've refused to refer? Speaker 24
8:17:26 No, they don't. Speaker 3
8:17:28 So it's because it was... 8:17:29 So the changed factor was vaccine entry. 8:17:32 Exactly. 8:17:33 Exactly. Speaker 24
8:17:35 And, you know, the crazy thing was, so I sent a letter to Dr. Bonnie Henry, who's our provincial... We're going to pull that up. Speaker 3
8:17:43 Oh, are you? Speaker 3
8:17:44 Okay. 8:17:45 So, but first, before we do, I guess, tell us why you wrote the letter. Speaker 3
8:17:50 And then, you know, we'll pull the letter up just so people can see it, and then you can tell us what happened. Speaker 24
8:17:55 Sure. 8:17:56 So what happened was... 8:17:59 First, when I became aware of safety signals, I tried to alert my colleagues in the area to these safety signals and was immediately reprimanded by the regional health authorities. 8:18:11 And they told me that I was putting people at risk by creating vaccine hesitancy. 8:18:17 And they said, we're sending this email that you sent out as a complaint to the College of Physicians and Surgeons. 8:18:24 You are not allowed to say anything negative about this vaccine in the course of your work. 8:18:30 And if you've got any questions about it, you need to send it to the regional health officer. Speaker 3
8:18:36 So I just want to slow you down. 8:18:38 So you're seeing... 8:18:40 really what you're seeing is a cluster of vaccine injuries. Speaker 24
8:18:43 Well, initially with that, no, because I'd been away on holiday and I hadn't seen my patients for five weeks and I didn't know what was happening. 8:18:51 And I got back and AstraZeneca had been shut down in Europe in 12 countries and Trudeau had ordered 60 million doses and said, no, it's fine for Canadians. 8:19:01 And I sent a letter to my colleagues saying, there is a serious safety signal. 8:19:06 12 countries in Europe have shut this down. 8:19:08 Trudeau says it's fine. 8:19:11 I think we need to pause and take stock. 8:19:14 And I was reprimanded for that. 8:19:20 And so when I came back from holiday. Speaker 3
8:19:24 When you say you were reprimanded, so you mean public health? 8:19:28 Is that the reprimand? Speaker 24
8:19:29 Well, no, it was my superiors at Royal Inland Hospital phoned me at a teleconference with two of them and one of me. 8:19:38 And they told me that I was putting people at risk by creating vaccine. 8:19:42 In other words, for pointing out safety signals, you're putting people at risk. 8:19:50 So they gave me effectively a gag order. 8:19:52 They said, you're not allowed to say anything negative about it. 8:19:56 If you've got any questions, they gave me the name of the person that I needed to send the questions to. 8:20:03 So when I then was back at work and started seeing my vaccine injured patients coming in, and I'd been their family doctor for 28 years at that point, and I was horrified. 8:20:14 I was absolutely horrified. 8:20:17 And 8:20:19 And so I then sent a letter to this person that they had told me to direct my questions to. 8:20:28 And so she was the one that ultimately I sent all the vaccine injury reports to. 8:20:32 But I sent her this letter saying, this is what I'm seeing. 8:20:35 What do I do? 8:20:37 What's the diagnosis? 8:20:38 I've never seen this before. 8:20:40 How do I treat it? 8:20:41 I'm their family doctor. 8:20:43 I don't even know what the diagnosis is. 8:20:45 I've never seen this kind of thing before. 8:20:48 And so she sent that to the college as a complaint that I was obviously saying something negative about the vaccine now. Speaker 3
8:20:57 So I just want to be clear because you're a doctor and you're actually going up to your superiors. 8:21:04 There's a hierarchy here. 8:21:06 And you're saying this is what I'm seeing. 8:21:09 What do I do? Speaker 24
8:21:10 Yes. 8:21:11 So she never responded to that. 8:21:14 She sent it to the college as a complaint. 8:21:18 So I then sent that letter. 8:21:20 So let's pull this letter up. 8:21:23 So that letter was to Dr. Bonnie Henry, who's the provincial health officer in B.C., to tell her that 900, was it 900? 8:21:35 Yeah, the first 900 of my patients had received the first dose of Moderna. 8:21:41 And I told her about what, you know, one patient had died suddenly. 8:21:45 Two had anaphylactic shock immediately afterwards. 8:21:49 Three looked like they were going to be permanently disabled. 8:21:52 And you can't necessarily say that a disability is permanent after only three months, but they sure looked like they were going to be permanently disabled because they'd had their shots in January and this was now April. 8:22:03 So I sent her this letter, but because I was, I had a sort of a sense of real urgency that I knew these people had been 8:22:16 And so people were terrified of COVID. 8:22:19 So they were lining up for these shots to keep them safe. 8:22:22 And I realized that they had been, we knew at that point that the recovery rate was the same as the flu. 8:22:30 We knew that. 8:22:31 Yet people didn't believe that, you know, because people, all these people are supposed to be dying. 8:22:38 And so 8:22:40 I sent that letter to her, but I sent it as an open letter because I'm not a social media person. 8:22:45 I've never, ever put anything on social media. 8:22:49 I didn't know how else to try and warm the world. 8:22:52 And fortunately, that... 8:22:55 A lot of people saw that, and a lot of people who were suspicious about this thought, ha, finally, here is a doctor just talking about what's happening to his patients. 8:23:09 And what came of that letter? 8:23:12 Well, so... 8:23:15 The response of the college was to then send a warning letter to every single registered doctor saying that if they spread misinformation about COVID or the COVID vaccines, that they would be put under investigation and, if necessary, disciplined. Speaker 3
8:23:31 And I'm just going to stop you. 8:23:33 I bet you, Dr. Hoff, that every doctor in British Columbia knew what was meant by the term misinformation. Speaker 27
8:23:39 Correct. Speaker 3
8:23:40 And what was meant by the term misinformation? Speaker 24
8:23:44 Well, in medical school, you are taught that vaccines save millions and millions of lives and that the vaccines are the greatest triumph of science and medicine in human history. 8:24:02 And that's what you're taught. 8:24:04 And therefore, vaccines are sort of like 8:24:08 like holy ground. 8:24:09 You don't say anything negative about a vaccine because this is the greatest triumph of science and medicine and human history. 8:24:17 That's where the term anti-vaxxer, you know, to be an anti-vaxxer is a bit like being a Holocaust denier. 8:24:23 You don't go there. 8:24:25 So, 8:24:27 So, I mean, and that's why doctors are so hesitant to report vaccine injuries. 8:24:32 I mean, they had mentioned about the study done by Harvard in 2010 that showed that 0.8% of vaccine injuries are ever reported. 8:24:43 And that's not COVID, that's all vaccines, 0.8%. 8:24:47 Doctors are very hesitant to blame vaccines for anything. Speaker 3
8:24:52 So on that point, you, because actually by law in Canada, 8:24:57 you're obligated to report what you believe is a vaccine injury. 8:25:01 Correct. 8:25:02 So by law, you've got this obligation. Speaker 3
8:25:05 You have a number of vaccine with who you believe are vaccine injured patients. Speaker 3
8:25:10 So do you follow the law and submit vaccine injury reports? Speaker 24
8:25:14 Well, I did and I tried. 8:25:16 So so the other response to that letter was Dr. Bonnie Henry. 8:25:20 She never replied to it. 8:25:22 But she referred this to her top vaccine safety specialist, who was Dr. Monica Knauss. 8:25:28 So I was offered a telephone meeting with her. 8:25:30 And at that meeting... 8:25:38 I explained to her what I've seen as a family doctor, what's happening to my patients. 8:25:44 And her response was to assure me that these were not vaccine injuries. 8:25:48 Now, she hadn't seen or assessed any of my patients in any way. 8:25:52 But yet she said, these are not vaccine injuries. 8:25:55 These must be all coincidences. 8:25:57 And I said, well... 8:26:01 I don't know what to do. 8:26:02 I don't know how to treat this. 8:26:03 I don't know what the diagnosis is. 8:26:06 I've tried these three hospitals, three neurology departments in major referral hospitals. 8:26:11 No one will touch this with a 10-foot pole. 8:26:14 Please will you help me to find a neurologist who will assess these patients urgently? 8:26:19 And she said, no, I can't do that. 8:26:22 So I said, well, how do I get somebody to see them? 8:26:25 How do I get a specialist to assess these patients? 8:26:28 She said, don't tell them it's a vaccine injury. 8:26:31 Those were her words. Speaker 3
8:26:35 Now, what happened to the vaccine injury reports that you filed? Speaker 24
8:26:39 So I started submitting these reports. 8:26:42 And the first, after I'd sent the first six, they were this regional health officer, not Dr. Bonnie Henry, but the regional one that I was told to direct my questions to was having 8:26:56 press conferences and things saying that what I was saying was untrue, that there was no vaccine injuries, that what I was claiming as vaccine injuries was completely unfounded, again, without investigating any of the things that I was trying to report. 8:27:11 And so I assumed, well, 8:27:13 OK, let's give her the benefit of the doubt. 8:27:15 Maybe she's never got the six vaccine injury reports that I've submitted. 8:27:18 So then I redid them all. 8:27:20 And each one is nine pages. 8:27:22 It's a laborious. 8:27:24 I figured I'd probably take you 25 minutes to do each one and you get paid zero. 8:27:29 So, you know, so anyway, I then started sending them by registered mail so that somebody had to sign for them so that they couldn't say they didn't get them. 8:27:38 And after I'd sent 14 and every single one was returned to me saying, look, these are not vaccine injuries. 8:27:44 These are all coincidences. Speaker 3
8:27:46 So, so there were real responses then when you sent them registered mail. Speaker 24
8:27:51 Yes. 8:27:51 They then, they then responded and told me they weren't vaccine injuries. Speaker 3
8:27:56 And I just want everyone to totally understand. 8:27:58 So you've been the doctor of these patients at this point for like. Speaker 24
8:28:03 It's 28 years. 8:28:04 28 years. 8:28:04 Um, Speaker 3
8:28:07 You've got their medical charts. 8:28:08 You've got this history. 8:28:11 They're coming to you. 8:28:12 You're examining them. 8:28:13 Did anyone from this office ask for a single patient's charts? Speaker 24
8:28:18 No, no. 8:28:18 I never got a phone call. 8:28:20 They never spoke to me. 8:28:22 They wouldn't speak to me. Speaker 3
8:28:23 And they didn't speak to your patients? Speaker 24
8:28:26 Well, I asked some of them. 8:28:27 Some of them said a nurse phoned them. 8:28:32 But these were people who should have been assessed by a neurologist. Speaker 3
8:28:37 And one of who was admitted into the hospital once they were. Speaker 24
8:28:40 Well, yeah, yeah. 8:28:41 Well, I mean, so, but that was, so, so in other words, public health that were rolling this out, when you're, when you're rolling out a new experimental treatment, you should be monitoring it very carefully. 8:28:54 There was no follower. 8:28:56 There was all there was, was a denial that it could possibly do harm. Speaker 3
8:29:00 And so, and then I just got two quick things because we were running out of time. 8:29:05 So, 8:29:06 You actually were professionally disciplined, meaning that you were charged by the college. 8:29:12 But they backed down. Speaker 3
8:29:13 After after a lot of headache for you and that you were told the reason why they backed down. Speaker 24
8:29:20 Yes. 8:29:20 So so I had eight brilliant expert witnesses. 8:29:27 I had Dr. James Thorpe, who's going to be testifying here. 8:29:32 I had Dr. Peter McCulloch. 8:29:34 I had Dr. Pierre Corey. 8:29:35 I had Jessica Rose, who testified earlier today. 8:29:39 I had eight world experts in their field dealing with each of the areas of accusation against me. 8:29:46 And so when the college saw this 8:29:52 absolute barrage of top-notch scientific evidence that was backing up what I had been saying about the vaccine injuries, they asked this disciplinary panel, which was my jury, to grant judicial notice to their facts. 8:30:10 And one of their facts was that the shots are safe and effective. 8:30:14 And so if they grant judicial notice, you're not allowed to contest that. 8:30:18 So they wanted this panel to declare that the safe and effective is uncontested. 8:30:26 It's self-evident, and therefore you cannot... 8:30:29 I mean, and so if they had granted that, I would not have been allowed to speak about vaccine injuries in my own defense. 8:30:36 And none of the 8:30:38 evidence of my expert witnesses. 8:30:40 And we had almost a thousand page of top-notch scientific evidence. 8:30:46 None of it would be allowed to be even admitted as court documents. 8:30:50 So they tried to bury my defense behind this thing called judicial notice. 8:30:56 And fortunately, by the grace of God, this panel who I prayed for every day said, no, this safe and effective thing needs to be proven. 8:31:06 And I said, hallelujah, thank you, God. 8:31:10 And so when they couldn't bury the evidence, they then tried to reschedule the trial twice at times when they knew my lawyer couldn't be present. 8:31:20 I mean, they tried every deceitful trick. 8:31:24 And then eventually, when nothing worked, they dropped the charges. 8:31:30 And they wouldn't actually say why they dropped the charges. 8:31:36 And the only coherent reason in all their verbose language that they gave was effectively, this process has already fulfilled its purpose of acting as a deterrent to any other doctor that may wish to spread misinformation. Speaker 3
8:31:53 And so I just want to make this clear. 8:31:55 So what they're saying is, is that the real reason for going after you is to make an example for other doctors within British Columbia, is that if you 8:32:05 spoke misinformation, which in your case was just raising concerns about vaccine entry and trying to report vaccine entry. 8:32:14 Don't you dare do that, BC doctors, or you will face what Dr. Hoff faced. Speaker 3
8:32:21 So it was meant to scare other doctors into submission. Speaker 24
8:32:24 This was a censorship tactic. 8:32:26 It was to get all these doctors to self-censor them. 8:32:29 You know, you don't do what Hoff did. 8:32:34 You saw what we did to him. Speaker 1
8:32:36 Thank you. 8:32:36 Now, we've got about five minutes left. 8:32:39 I've got a couple of questions. 8:32:39 I've got one for Mr. Dawson and one for Mr. Dalton, okay? Speaker 23
8:32:45 You mentioned coincidence. 8:32:47 There's certain professions I don't believe in coincidence. 8:32:51 Your profession, our profession, there's many others, but there's certain professions, coincidence, I don't believe in. 8:33:00 Who do you blame for the COVID vaccine injuries, in your professional opinion? Speaker 24
8:33:09 I think first and foremost, Health Canada is to blame. 8:33:17 They approved this without any evidence that it was either safe or effective. 8:33:22 So I think first and foremost, they are to blame. 8:33:26 And then, of course, complicit in that is all of the governmental authorities that are 8:33:36 pushed that narrative without any evidence you know they should have shown the evidence so so you know the medical medicine is supposed to be based on evidence that's why we do clinical trials that's why we have peer-reviewed studies it's supposed to be evidence-based and there wasn't any and yet they enforced it based on this assumption where do we go from here and what does the government do moving forward 8:34:05 It's a really good question. 8:34:07 I think the most positive thing that could come from this is that Health Canada should not get any funding from the pharmaceutical industry. 8:34:18 Part of the problem is that Health Canada gets approximately 90% of its funding from the pharmaceutical industry, which means that's who it works for. 8:34:27 It doesn't work for the people of Canada. 8:34:29 That's whose interests they are supporting. 8:34:35 That is a huge conflict of interest. 8:34:39 So really, I think those conflicts of interest need to be removed. 8:34:51 And then I think there should be legislation in place to ensure freedom of speech, because this thing about misinformation is all about shutting down freedom of speech. 8:35:03 Because what's misinformation? 8:35:05 It's literally whatever they decided is. 8:35:07 It's completely arbitrary. 8:35:09 And it can change, you know, with the wind. Speaker 23
8:35:15 Thank you. 8:35:16 I think you opened a lot of eyes today with your testimony. 8:35:19 Thank you. 8:35:19 And I don't think the conflicts just stopped there either. 8:35:22 I think they go a lot deeper than where, thank you, what you mentioned. 8:35:26 Mr. Dolan. Speaker 28
8:35:29 Thank you, Dr. Hoff, for speaking. 8:35:33 I'm a member of Parliament from British Columbia and certainly was aware of you speaking up during that time. 8:35:42 And there was a couple of questions before I ask a couple more comments. 8:35:51 Were you seen prior to this time, had you been an activist in anything else? 8:35:56 Were you just like a 8:36:00 a troublemaker in the medical field and bringing up these sort of things? 8:36:04 Or is this kind of new? Speaker 24
8:36:06 No, no, no. 8:36:07 I have, you know, I remember when I moved to Lytton, because Lytton's a very insignificant little place. Speaker 13
8:36:13 You know, it's a, yeah. Speaker 24
8:36:16 I mean, any town that only has one doctor is not a big place. 8:36:20 So I remember when I first moved there, my father came there in 1994 and said, what on earth are you doing here? 8:36:26 He said to me, you are stuck in a back eddy. 8:36:28 You will never make a name for yourself in this place. 8:36:31 And I said, I'm not trying to make a name for myself. 8:36:34 I'm just a country doctor serving some wonderful people. 8:36:39 And so, you know, I've never been an activist in anything. 8:36:44 I've never put anything on social media. 8:36:48 Because I've never wanted to be a public figure in any way. 8:36:52 I just wanted to humbly do my job and serve my patients. 8:36:56 That's all I wanted to do. Speaker 22
8:37:00 Yeah. 8:37:03 Yeah. 8:37:27 it's like the 25 people association Speaker 28
8:38:01 because of hopefully that was and you know one of the arguments was that coastal health authority had said that that vaccines don't prevent you from getting a COVID and neither do they prevent you from transmitting it they made no difference and so it's kind of like what is the whole purpose of this and so 8:38:27 And also the pressures about basically everyone losing their licenses that they would, you know, the impact about healthcare in British Columbia. 8:38:36 And it was that, that got a lot of traction and in the, in, in, in BC. 8:38:43 And the same day it was a letter to, to Premier Horgan at the time, that same day I put it out, they reversed course on, on, on basically decertifying all these people. 8:38:54 So, but I, you know, this is a, 8:38:57 It's been very difficult. 8:38:58 It's been very difficult for many healthcare workers that had problems with the vaccination from what they said and what they saw. 8:39:11 And we have testimony here also of, I believe, one of the witnesses, and actually a couple of witnesses, that their daughter, I think Abigail, who died, and then others that were in the field. 8:39:25 The 8:39:26 The impact, they were seeing these things. 8:39:28 And so anyways, I think that we do need to be looking at this from a health perspective rather than keeping everything like ask the questions, which is what you're doing. 8:39:40 You're asking, you're saying, let's look at these questions. 8:39:43 What's the problem? 8:39:44 Let's get the treatment rather than having everything in a box. 8:39:46 So thank you for asking those questions in the past and continuing to do so. Speaker 24
8:39:51 Thank you so much for sending that letter. 8:39:53 I mean, I was about to lose my medical license because Dr. Bonnie Henry had set a deadline. 8:39:59 I think it was either the 23rd or the 26th of March. 8:40:03 And I was expecting to lose my license because I was not going to take those shots. 8:40:08 And so my patients were about to suddenly be with no family doctor. 8:40:11 So thank you so much for doing that. Speaker 1
8:40:15 And Dr. Ha, thank you. 8:40:16 We appreciate the stand that you've taken and one of those 8:40:21 doctors and people can come and get an honest opinion. 8:40:23 And actually, you have not been afraid to push back against the system when, quite frankly, as we've heard over the last two days, it's been very difficult to do. 8:40:33 So thank you for your stand on that. 8:40:36 All right. 8:40:37 Thank you, everyone, for being here today. 8:40:39 We're up against our timeline of 5 o'clock. 8:40:42 We will resume again tomorrow at 8.30 and on day three. 8:40:45 So 8:40:46 to the MPs that took the time to be here. 8:40:48 We really appreciate it. 8:40:50 We thank you for your participation as well.