Rodney Palmer
Day 4 · September 11, 2026 · 0:27:34
Key points Rodney Palmer is a veteran Canadian journalist who worked 20 years for the Globe and Mail, Vancouver Sun, and CBC, including as a foreign correspondent and bureau chief. He argues that during COVID the CBC morphed from a public broadcaster doing bottom-up news gathering into a state broadcaster pushing top-down propaganda. He cites a CBC National segment and CBC Kids broadcast that he says dismissed the lab-leak theory and told children the vaccine had no significant safety concerns. He says CBC Manitoba reporter Marianne Kloak had a myocarditis safety-signal story censored and quit after 35 years, calling it the collapse of journalism. He argues the federal government funded Science Up First with $1.75 million and that its members became the CBC's only approved experts on vaccines. He contends CBC concealed guests' government ties and ignored Health Canada death data while telling Canadians there was no evidence of vaccine harm. He characterizes the terms anti-vaxxer, conspiracy theorist, and misinformation as censorship tools of propaganda and blames CBC's failure for necessitating the inquiry.
Speaker 3
0:01 So our next witness is Rodney Palmer. 0:05 Rodney, can you get, can somebody give him the Bible to put in his right hand? 0:09 Thank you. 0:15 Rodney Palmer, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? 0:22 So help you God. 0:23 I do. 0:24 Just want to introduce you to the inquiry. 0:27 You worked as a journalist in Canada for 20 years. 0:32 You were a general assignment reporter for the Globe and Mail newspaper. 0:36 You worked as a daily news reporter at the Vancouver Sun. 0:41 You worked at CBC and later you worked as a producer and investigative reporter at CBC Radio and Television. 0:50 You then went to be the foreign correspondence and bureau chief for CTV News based in India. 0:58 then Israel, and finally in China, based in Beijing. 1:03 And we've asked you to come and testify about the standard process of news gathering 1:08 versus propaganda at the CBC during the time of COVID. 1:13 And my understanding is that you have a presentation for us, and I'd invite you to give that. Speaker 4
1:18 I do. 1:18 Thank you. 1:18 Thank you, Mr. Allison, for holding this inquiry. 1:20 Thank you, Mr. Buckley. 1:22 I worked at the CBC for these times and at CTV, but primarily I was trained at the CBC from a young age, a young journalist. 1:29 trained in their system. 1:31 And what I observed very quickly during COVID was that the CBC morphed into the type of broadcaster that I witnessed in China, in Syria, in North Korea. 1:41 It wasn't the public broadcaster that I had been trained as. 1:46 I believe it's a state broadcaster. 1:48 And I'm going to explain the differences. 1:50 between those two things. 1:52 A public broadcaster engages in news gathering, which is defined in the Oxford Dictionary as the process of doing research on news items. 2:00 And the way it works is from the bottom up. 2:01 So a little reporter in a small town in Saskatchewan will do a story that's local and maybe Western Canada becomes interested in it. 2:09 Maybe the nation does and it goes up and it becomes a national news story. 2:12 That's a bottom up. 2:13 That's 2:14 how the apparatus is designed to work. 2:15 That's a public broadcaster. 2:17 It tells the story of the nation that holds us together and knits us together by telling our stories. 2:23 But I heard it becoming a state broadcaster, and a state broadcaster works on propaganda. 2:28 It uses the same apparatus, the same anchors, the same reporters, right down to that little reporter in Saskatchewan. 2:35 And what it does, it's defined in Oxford as 2:38 the intentional manipulation of public opinion through lies and half-truths. 2:44 It uses the same apparatus, but it comes from the top down. 2:47 The government tells us, right down to that little reporter, and they all speak with a unified voice. 2:53 One of the first things I noticed was a story on The National. 2:58 at CBC Television, the national news, with Adrienne Arsenault, one of the greatest broadcasters we have, by the way. 3:03 She's amazing in the way that she is on camera, and she's very believable and trustworthy. 3:07 But when I saw this, I did not recognize it as news. Speaker 5
3:11 So what do you do when this happens? 3:13 A loved one, let's say it's your dad, drops into the family group chat with something he thinks is real. 3:19 It's something about China manufacturing the coronavirus. 3:23 There's a link to a site you've never heard of with a message calling it scary stuff. 3:28 So what do you do with this? 3:30 Do you ignore it? 3:31 Do you call him out saying how ridiculous you think this is? 3:34 So hold back on all that reactive talk. 3:37 Maybe try something like this. 3:38 Yeah, these are scary times. 3:40 We're all a bit afraid, but let's be careful. 3:42 What you're sharing is inaccurate and it feeds into that fear we all feel. Speaker 4
3:48 year was what they were selling here. 3:50 It wasn't news. 3:51 And more interestingly, on April 4th, 2020, CDC had no idea that this didn't come from a lab. 3:56 I covered the SARS outbreak in 2002 in Beijing, and I followed the World Health Organization, the virus hunters, determining who was patient zero. 4:04 And I know that the amount of time that this takes, and it hadn't been determined yet. 4:07 So how did they presume in that story, number one, that it wasn't from a lab? 4:11 They presented no evidence. 4:13 There was no news gathering. 4:14 And more importantly, they said, don't trust your dumb old dad. 4:18 That's what the focus of this story was. 4:20 Don't trust your family member. 4:21 So this is another thing that state broadcasters do. 4:24 They attempt to supplant themselves as the arbiters of truth and divide you from your standard, the person you seek as a true person, a wise person in your life, in this case, your father. 4:36 So they had no evidence, and yet they did this. 4:38 This is because this was propaganda, and I recognized it instantly. 4:43 Just a few days later, the Washington Post did news gathering. 4:46 It published a story that there were safety issues at the Wuhan lab. 4:50 This is 10 days after the Adrian Arsenault's piece. 4:53 Going back to 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing had been warning Washington about safety and management weaknesses at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. 5:03 that stated specifically there was a potential human transmission representing a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic. 5:10 This is two years before. 5:11 Did the CBC come on 10 days later and said, sorry, the Washington Post has broken a story that we're looking into that it might be from the lab? 5:18 No, they didn't do that. 5:19 They kept telling you, you know, it's ridiculous to be from the lab. 5:25 The next year, 5:26 Vanity Fair did a deep dive and found five scientific papers published seven years prior to that broadcast by the scientists at the Wuhan lab in public domain that showed that they were creating a brand new infectious pathogen, some Frankensteinian bacteria that, or virus rather, 5:47 that was merging the SARS-2002 virus with a new bat virus. 5:53 They said there were safety deficiencies at the Wuhan lab. 5:56 They said there were genetically engineered rats with humanized lungs. 5:59 And all of this information was available to Adrian Arsenault, the CBC and the National at the time they told us, don't believe it to be true. 6:07 So they, with the billions of dollars that they have from the people of Canada and the federal government, they failed to tell us this. 6:17 And it's probably not because they didn't know how. 6:20 It's probably because they were acting as a state broadcaster. 6:24 The next thing they did was when the vaccine... Rodney, can I just stop you? Speaker 3
6:28 Because don't we now, with the Fauci diaries, it's pretty clear that this lab leak theory is very, very... 6:37 Probable. Speaker 4
6:37 The U.S. Congress issued a report that it was definite. 6:40 The U.S. FBI has issued a report that it is definite from the lab. 6:45 And but my point here is in the moment it was provable and a journalist would have proved it or at least strongly pointed the finger. 6:54 Not only was it probable, but it was the most likely scenario at the moment that she was telling us, don't believe your father. 7:01 if he says because he's kind of dumb because dads are this is this was a scenario that they were creating because they were not exercising the journalism that we expected them to do they were simply exercising state propaganda and it gets worse mr buckley by december we had a vaccine ridiculously lightning speed seven months to a vaccine and they bypassed the parents entirely 7:27 in an arm of CBC called CBC Kids, where they broadcast this on December 16th, 2020. Speaker 6
7:34 So you're a vaccine researcher. 7:36 How confident are you that this vaccine is safe? 7:39 So the vaccine has been tested in thousands and thousands of people and have shown no significant safety concerns. 7:50 So because it's been given to so many people and they haven't had a problem, 7:56 I think that you can feel safer getting this vaccine knowing that no problems have been recognized so far. Speaker 4
8:07 There are three things interesting about that scientific, that science scientist. 8:12 Number one, she choked on her final phrase. 8:15 No significant safety concerns have been found so far. 8:18 Normally, when somebody is doing that, they repeat themselves. 8:20 They stutter. 8:21 They stumble. 8:21 It's because they're trying to remember a script. 8:23 I picked up on it. 8:25 The second thing that was horrifying to me is there's a tension track underneath that. 8:28 You couldn't quite hear it on the volume we have here. 8:30 It's subliminal. 8:32 It's on there. 8:34 Right. 8:35 It was also on the national news piece with Adrienne Arsenault. 8:38 And when she went to interview somebody who said, I'm an expert and I I know how to how to talk to your father. 8:43 The music changed to this is a Hollywood emotional manipulation trick to get to to get us to think and feel a certain way. 8:52 The CBC was using this in their news items to promote fear. 8:57 and to promote, to move us toward the solution that they wanted us to believe in their intentional manipulation. 9:05 The most interesting thing about this on December 16th is that she said there was no safety signals. 9:10 However, four days prior, 9:12 On December 12th, Health Canada had issued its first warning, its first bulletin, that it was monitoring cases of anaphylaxis. 9:20 So that's not nothing, CBC kids. 9:22 That's not total safety. 9:24 That's not no safety concerns. 9:26 That's anaphylaxis. 9:27 Four days prior. 9:29 And that scientist was giving misinformation to the children. 9:34 Only four months after that, so 16 weeks later, Public Health Ontario published that there were 20 reports of blood clots, seven reports of acute cardiovascular injury. 9:44 That sounds pretty severe to me. 9:46 acute kidney injuries, skin lesions, acute respiratory distress. 9:49 Respiratory distress means you can't breathe. 9:52 And seven reports of death in Ontario alone. 9:56 Did CBC kids go back on and say, listen, kids, the story has changed. 10:00 It's emerging. 10:01 We have new information. 10:02 No, they continued to say, go get the vaccine. 10:06 It'll release you from the confines of your parents' basement. 10:10 A reporter at CBC Manitoba said, 10:13 started to get so many phone calls from vaccine injured people that she did a story about it. 10:17 She did her job. 10:18 She's a 35-year veteran named Marion Cloack, and she knows how to do her job. 10:22 She phoned around to university experts across Canada, and she learned that there were actually safety signals by this time of myocarditis and pericarditis. 10:32 These university experts who were in the field said that 10:36 This was happening. 10:36 It was posted on the Health Canada website. 10:38 It was being witnessed internationally. 10:40 And she put a story together. 10:42 And CBC Manitoba. 10:44 censored the story. 10:46 They said, you can't say that. 10:47 It will promote vaccine hesitancy. 10:49 And she replied, that's not my job to promote hesitancy or to cheerlead the vaccine. 10:56 My job is to tell the truth of what's happening in this country. 10:59 They sent the story down to CBC Toronto for vetting. 11:02 This has never happened to her before in her 35-year career as a 11:10 She was pointing out at the time that this was an urgent story, but they said, you can put those people on who claim that they're injured by the vaccine, but you can't put those two learned scientists on who say that these are red flags and we have pericarditis and myocarditis and we have other death red flags and they're posting it on the Health Canada website. 11:28 Not allowed to put them on. 11:30 You have to put approved scientists on. 11:34 She had never heard this before. 11:36 So Marianne Kloak, 11:38 You can't see the picture here, but she said, I quit. 11:42 I'm triggering my retirement. 11:45 I'm leaving the CBC. 11:47 She later testified at the National Citizen's Inquiry here in Ottawa. 11:51 I witnessed in a very short time the collapse of journalism, news gathering and investigative reporting at the CBC. 11:58 The way I saw it, we were in fact pushing propaganda. 12:00 Those are her words. 12:02 Around that same time, in order to combat the problem, I suppose, that the government had, but it was also, to me, it was an emerging story. 12:10 These more and more people were getting injured by these vaccines that we were being told were safe and effective, safe and effective, safe and effective. 12:16 This is what a state broadcaster does. 12:18 It's a hypnotic thing. 12:19 It's a way to brainwash the public. 12:22 The federal government established a fund of $1.75 million and gave it to a nascent group of two people. 12:29 It was called Science Up First, and it was run by a lawyer, oddly enough, not even a scientist. 12:37 His name is Timothy Caulfield. 12:39 And many people may have seen him. 12:40 He's been on every media in the country. 12:44 And he goes on and tells you that not only that you have to take a vaccine, but if you don't, that there's something wrong with you mentally. 12:50 The mandate of Science Up First was to get as many Canadians as possible vaccinated against COVID-19. 12:56 And so Mr. Caulfield surrounded himself with actual scientific experts, and they became the independent experts that the CBC would go to. 13:04 We used to call it the golden Rolodex, people that you knew you could bring on and you knew what they were going to say. 13:09 But they were the only ones allowed on. 13:11 The ones that Marianne Kloak got, who were raising red flags on behalf of Canada and trying to tell Canadians, be careful, were not allowed on the CBC. 13:19 Only these ones were allowed on the CBC. 13:22 The same month that CBC suppressed that story, 13:26 that Marianne Kloak had, that their vaccine injuries were numbering in the hundreds and the thousands, CBC Manitoba posted any claims that COVID-19 vaccines may have long-term side effects are completely untrue. 13:40 And they knew this was a lie because their own reporter had a story that it wasn't untrue. 13:45 An infectious disease expert recently told CBC Radio's White Coat Black Art. 13:50 So instead of quoting Health Canada's website or the people who were injured, they quoted themselves. 13:56 This was a self-referential story. 13:59 And they quoted a show called White Coat Black Art. 14:02 You can't get more authoritative. 14:03 It's hosted by a medical doctor, Brian Goldman. 14:06 This guy's one of my heroes. 14:07 He's a medical doctor. 14:07 He's an emergency room doctor in a busy hospital in downtown Toronto, and he has two radio shows. 14:13 And he took all of the trust of that 25 years, and he flipped it against me like a judo move to harm me. 14:20 He put Tara Moriarty on, identified her as an infectious disease researcher at the University of Toronto. 14:27 He didn't mention that she's a founder of Science Up First, which took $1.75 million from the federal government to promote vaccine uptake. 14:36 That was a half-truth from that definition of propaganda I gave you a moment ago. 14:41 That was a lie by concealment. 14:44 It was a lie by omission. 14:46 Brian Goldman lied to us, and then so did Tara Moriarty. 14:50 She said, we don't have any evidence that the vaccines cause anything but immunity. 14:57 against COVID-19. 14:59 On the day she said it, Health Canada, and I don't know why my slides aren't showing here, but Health Canada had reported 119 deaths already 15:10 from the COVID vaccine. 15:11 You have to understand, Mr. Allison, who reports this. 15:14 Not anyone gets access to these lists on Health Canada. 15:18 It has to be an attending physician who signs off on the death certificate or some other health professional that's involved with the death. 15:25 And that information goes to the Provincial Health Authority, which then sends it to Health Canada. 15:30 So there's a big vetting process before they list 119 dead Canadians, while the CBC is saying to Canada that they have no evidence. 15:40 were dying from this vaccine. 15:41 They were told that this wasn't true on a regular basis. 15:45 Now imagine if young Sean Hartman, whose father just testified here, who died from the vaccine, had known that. 15:54 Imagine if CBC Kids was on his television. 15:58 He was in that range, that 18-year-old range for myocarditis and pericarditis. 16:04 Imagine if Marion Kloak's story had been broadcast like every one of her other stories in her 35-year career, and that had gone up like a public broadcaster does to the national level, and had gone across the country in June of 2021. 16:20 Would Sean have taken the vaccine if he'd known that people were dying, even if it was only some people, even if it was only a tiny minority? 16:27 Would he have taken it? 16:30 The next story that emerged was the thing didn't work. 16:33 So not only had it been established by Health Canada that it was not completely safe, but now it wasn't completely effective. 16:39 So CBC's cross-country checkup with Ian Hannemansing, again, one of my heroes. 16:44 I love this guy. 16:44 I used to look up to him. 16:45 He's so easy on the air. 16:47 He's easy to believe the way he talks, but he used that trust and he turned it against us like a revolver with a one bullet in the chamber. 16:55 And we don't know how many chambers pointed directly at us. 16:57 He put Isaac Bogoch on from science up first and didn't identify concealed that from the public and instead said he's simply an infectious disease expert. 17:07 And clearly this is a three dose vaccine was his message. 17:11 A number of months later, it still wasn't working. 17:13 So Isaac Bogoch went into overdrive and the rest of science up first. 17:16 He was on CBC Metro Morning, the flagship radio show in Toronto, saying when to get your fourth dose. 17:21 He was on CBC News in October saying get your next dose every six months. 17:26 He was on The National with Andrew Chang. 17:29 Who looks more trustworthy and honest than Andrew Chang, you know? 17:32 But he betrayed his audience and all of Canada that night when he put this guest on and called him an infectious disease specialist and didn't mention he was paid by the government to make you take a vaccine. 17:43 It was a trick. 17:46 On the same day he said it, the death toll was now up to 370 dead Canadians reported by Canadian medical officials while they were doing this. 17:55 So my point is that a journalist looks at Health Canada data 17:59 and doesn't tell you that people are dying. 18:01 And by this point, there was over 1,100 myocarditis and pericarditis, mostly young men. 18:06 This was a safety signal emerging while they were saying, go get another dose and don't worry, it's totally safe and effective. 18:13 I wonder if this woman was listening to the CBC. 18:16 Carol Pierce died in minute seven in her 15-minute waiting period after she got the vaccine. 18:22 The coroner said she died of natural causes. 18:26 So we really have to suspend our disbelief here that she was going to die anyway in the shopper's drug mart at that moment, and that the confounding interference of the injection into her arm seven minutes before was irrelevant. 18:37 This is even bigger than trying to suspend our disbelief that it didn't come from the lab when the lab itself was publishing what they were doing with the coronavirus that emerged in their city. 18:47 Her daughter... 18:50 posted the last text thread where her mother wrote the last words of this woman before she died, was waiting the 15 minutes, LOL. 18:59 This is the type of social media post that the CBC would declare was misinformation. 19:05 They shamed and blamed, belittled, humiliated, and bullied. 19:09 I had never seen anything like this. 19:10 This goes beyond what China did. 19:12 This is getting into North Korea level of state broadcasting, where they actually attacked people who were telling the truth. 19:20 And they dismissed it because it was social media, which is now the only truthful media we have, because the CBC was clearly, and I'm showing evidence here, I'm submitting this, it was lying to us by now. 19:30 They called them anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists, and misinformation on social media. 19:35 These phrases may sound familiar to you. 19:38 I'm going to break down this language for a moment. 19:41 It's pure censorship. 19:42 An anti-vaxxer is meant to make you think they're unreasonable. 19:46 A conspiracy theorist is meant to make you think they're delusional. 19:49 They have a mental illness of some sort. 19:51 They're paranoid. 19:53 And misinformation means they're practicing mischief. 19:56 Nobody wants to be accused of these things. 19:58 So this is how censorship works really effectively. 20:00 You don't want to be called this, so you don't speak up. 20:03 You self-censor. 20:05 You shut the hell up instead of coming forward with the truth. 20:09 This is the language of propaganda, and it's extremely effective. 20:12 And I want to tell everyone here today, this is a little trick. 20:16 I'm trained to do this, so I understand it. 20:18 But the next time you're listening to any media or reading any media and you hear the phrase anti-vaxxer, conspiracy theorist, or misinformation, you are listening to propaganda. 20:30 Understand that from this day forward. 20:33 Your life may depend on it. 20:36 By March 1st, 2023, so many Canadians were disgusted and upset with the CBC for not reporting this story that 150 of them went at dawn down to the CBC headquarters on Front Street in Toronto and plastered flyers with their faces, their names, their injuries, the stories of their dead loved ones on the front page, on the front entrance of the CBC. 20:59 You could not have been a CBC employee entering in the main entrance that day and not have seen this. 21:05 They were saying, 21:06 okay, we're willing to commit a minor act of vandalism here in order to get you to pay attention. 21:11 We don't know what else could work. 21:15 But near as I can figure, CBC security just went out and took the posters down. 21:22 And these people were not interviewed. 21:25 My guess is that they couldn't be interviewed. 21:28 Because if you take 150 of them, statistically, probably about 10 or 15 of them are going to say to the interviewer, you know, I believed you. 21:35 You did this to me. 21:38 Adrian Arsenault, Ian Hannah-Mansing, Brian Goldman, I can name 10 others. 21:41 You did that. 21:42 I trusted you. 21:44 They were stuck because they couldn't call them an anti-vaxxer. 21:47 They'd all been vaccinated. 21:49 They couldn't say this is misinformation. 21:50 They were only describing their own truly lived experience. 21:55 And they couldn't call them a conspiracy theorist because they weren't saying anything other than I got vaccinated and I'm injured. 22:01 Please tell the story. 22:03 By January 19th, Health Canada, 2024, 22:07 Health Canada had listed 488 dead Canadians reported by their medical professionals on their website. 22:14 The safety signals of pericarditis and myocarditis were now officially on the Health Canada website. 22:20 Now imagine if two and a half years prior, the CBC had simply let Marianne Kloak do her story and not censored her. 22:27 Imagine if the CBC National had done the story and followed this as it emerged. 22:32 Never mind that it didn't work. 22:33 It was killing people. 22:34 Now, yes, they will say, 22:38 It wasn't everybody. 22:39 It was only some people. 22:41 And the biggest emerging story that I see on this page is that of the 488 deaths, Mr. Allison, 484 of them have been dismissed as non-causal. 22:52 So when a doctor sees somebody die and has the temerity to write on the death certificate COVID-19, how does some review panel at a later date dismiss close to 100% of them? 23:07 Now, instead of examining this as an investigative report, journalists will say, well, see that? 23:13 Only four of them really died. 23:15 Still not none, like they say. 23:19 But how is it? 23:20 that they dismiss almost 100% of them. 23:24 In this regard, CBC, in my observation, is equated with the state broadcasters of North Korea, Syria, and China. 23:33 I lived and worked in these countries. 23:34 I heard it happen. 23:36 I was trained at the CBC on how to be a journalist, and I watched it morph during COVID. 23:41 It's propaganda from the top down. 23:43 It's intentional manipulation of public opinion through lies, 23:46 half-truths and disinformation. 23:48 And by disinformation, I mean a lie with intent to mislead. 23:52 And that's why this inquiry is here. 23:56 If the CBC had done its job, we wouldn't be here doing this. 24:00 We need an MP like you to call an inquiry because the billion-dollar CBC failed us. 24:07 But it's possible that it didn't. 24:10 because its assignment changed. 24:12 It is no longer a public broadcaster. 24:14 It's a state broadcaster, and it did as it was told. 24:19 Thank you very much for listening today. 24:20 I wanted to come here and tell you what I've observed to be true. Speaker 1
24:23 Well, thank you, Mr. Palmer. 24:24 We certainly will. 24:25 Yeah, well, there we go. 24:33 You won't get any disagreement from me, but I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Moss for a question. 24:38 Thank you very much for your... 24:40 your candor today. Speaker 2
24:42 Your last statement created a question for me. 24:46 Now, as a state broadcaster, obviously CBC did not act alone. 24:52 So are you suggesting that they were prompted by the state? Speaker 4
24:56 I don't know who prompted them. 24:59 I do know that they shifted their allegiance from the people of Canada to an organization called the Trusted News Initiative, which was a standards organization which virtually all mainstream media in North America and worldwide subscribed to just prior to COVID. 25:17 And this standards organization, and this is research that I've done, would give them story ideas such as how to out lies on social media, how to shame and blame. 25:29 I can guess that it was a directive that would have come from the president of the CBC, but I don't know. Speaker 2
25:37 And this news background, like opinion press, we would think of it, but you just mentioned, what was the name again? Speaker 4
25:47 The Trusted News Initiative. 25:48 Who is that? 25:49 It came out of England. 25:50 It's kind of a murky organization. 25:55 It's difficult to research who they are, what they are, when they started. 26:00 But you have to understand that the reason I'm talking here about the CBC because it's a crown corporation funded by federal tax dollars in its entirety. 26:09 But it's not alone. 26:10 What I've just said here could go for just about any news organization, the Globe and Mail, the National Post. 26:15 Global TV, CTV, many of my former employers, I worked in these organizations and I saw them doing the same thing. 26:21 And they were all members of this trusted news initiative. Speaker 2
26:25 Well, I just want to thank you for confirming what many of us have been saying for many, many years of the obvious bias by our mainstream media, especially our state fund broadcaster. 26:38 So thank you for your honesty today. Speaker 1
26:41 You're welcome. 26:41 Thank you. 26:42 And we are out of time. 26:44 Mr. Palmer, somebody sent me a video of you talking at a barbecue. 26:47 And when I saw you, your conversation, I said, I talked to Sean. 26:51 I said, I think we need to have him in to help frame what we're up against. 26:55 And so you've done an awesome job. 26:56 And like every witness, we really should have you here for an hour, but we didn't have the time and we need to make room for more time. 27:03 So thank you very much for your presentation. 27:05 And I think probably confirming some of the things we suspected already, but we appreciate you laying it out in such an articulate way. Speaker 3
27:17 Yeah, so every witness's slide deck and photos are forming exhibits, and we'll have a page for each witness with their video of their testimony and the exhibits.